Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => The Babylon Project => Public Development => Topic started by: wesp5 on September 17, 2010, 08:50:11 am
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I'm playing these cool single missions at the moment but I have problems with two of them. The "A view from the gallery" mission just goes on without end even after both waves of the enemy ships are destroyed. Is this a bug or is something more supposed to happen? Also in the "Voice in the wilderness" mission after the alien ship appears nothing more happens. Another broken script?
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I'll look at them later tonight but I can't remember having a problem with them.
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It looks like "A View From the Gallery" should end automatically once the invasion force has been destroyed. There should be a message saying as much about 10 seconds before you end up at the debriefing screen. If you see this message but nothing happens then something weird is going on. If you don't see this message then it might be a matter of some targets yet to be destroyed.
A quick look at "A Voice in the Wilderness" shows that the second alien ship is supposed to fire on the other alien ship that was present at the beginning of the mission. It looks like the only condition that needs to be met for the mission to end automatically is the destruction of that first alien ship "Unknown Ship." The second alien ship is supposed to help with this but from the events I've looked at it's only supposed to fire once and, fire or not, vanish about 10 seconds after arrival. Given the distances involved I doubt it's beam will hit the Unknown Ship. Back in 2007 or 2008, the fire-beam events allowed ships to hit targets well outside their normal range. There has been a code change since then that can and will break missions like these, I'm afraid.
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It looks like "A View From the Gallery" should end automatically once the invasion force has been destroyed. There should be a message saying as much about 10 seconds before you end up at the debriefing screen.
I think I didn't get that message. Maybe I will have to try it again. There are only two waves of enemies right?
A quick look at "A Voice in the Wilderness" shows that the second alien ship is supposed to fire on the other alien ship that was present at the beginning of the mission.
My problem here was that the second ship never appeared. Maybe I will have to try that mission again too...
BTW Slasher, were you involved with the creation of this mission pack? If so, congratulations on some very cool missions! Replaying some of the biggest battles of the series was fantastic. If have some bug reports though:
- All the map names begin with "Babylon 5" which is a bit long so you can't really see how the map is called.
- In the "Signs and Portents" mission there is a typo in the debriefing calling Londo "Milari" and not "Mollari".
- In the "Twilight Struggle" mission there is another Narn cruiser appearing during the battle which is not consistent with the show. Also why are several Shadow fighters not lockable and invisible to the computer and most of the others are not? The mission is hard enough already so I really hope this is a bug that can be fixed.
- In the amazing "Shadow Dancing" mission there is a Star Fury flying around with the label "Shadow Battle Crab" and a battle crab with the label "Medium Cruiser" or something. These two would better be corrected. Also the latter one and another battle crab far away don't ever interact in battle, even if they are attacked!
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madaboutgames, one of our team members that left for parts unknown some time ago, is the author of this particular mission pack. If you like this one then you might try his Earth-Brakiri War and Heat Em Up campaigns as well.
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madaboutgames, one of our team members that left for parts unknown some time ago, is the author of this particular mission pack.
Oh, so there is no chance of getting this issues fixed?
If you like this one then you might try his Earth-Brakiri War and Heat Em Up campaigns as well.
I sure will :)! Thanks for all your great contributions...
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He still checks in occasionally so there is a chance he would fix it if it is confirmed to be a bug. Even if he doesn't we can always include a fixed version in the next Zathras.
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Even if he doesn't we can always include a fixed version in the next Zathras.
I have no idea how TBP modding works but maybe simple things like wrong spaceship labels can be easily changed. So how does one open these vp files? Could something like this be done with the FRED editor? What I mean is, is it possible to edit existing campaign to correct errors without redoing everything?
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The fixes for these problems range from trivial to minor difficulty. All you'd have to do is extract the missions from the VP and edit them in FRED. You'd then save the missions to the Data\Missions folder inside the folder where you found the VP. I suspect FUBAR was saying that they'd fix the issues if they could confirm them but far be it for us to prevent someone new taking their first steps in modding/FREDding. We've ended up with many great mission designers in the past because people have tried to fix things themselves and then realised how easy this stuff actually is despite looking hard from the outside. :D
My FAQ links to several VP editors on the tools page. I think VPView (http://www.descent-network.com/descman/) should suffice for your problems.
- In the "Signs and Portents" mission there is a typo in the debriefing calling Londo "Milari" and not "Mollari".
.fs2 files are simple text files. You wouldn't even need FRED for this one, a search and replace in Notepad/wordpad would fix it.
- In the "Twilight Struggle" mission there is another Narn cruiser appearing during the battle which is not consistent with the show. Also why are several Shadow fighters not lockable and invisible to the computer and most of the others are not? The mission is hard enough already so I really hope this is a bug that can be fixed.
You'd need to look through the mission logic and see what the 2nd Narn Cruiser is being used for. For a beginner the easiest way to do that would be to delete it in FRED and see what complains about it being missing when you hit save. :D
Looking though the mission logic (Also Known As events and SEXPs) would allow you to figure out what's up with those shadow ships.
- In the amazing "Shadow Dancing" mission there is a Star Fury flying around with the label "Shadow Battle Crab" and a battle crab with the label "Medium Cruiser" or something. These two would better be corrected. Also the latter one and another battle crab far away don't ever interact in battle, even if they are attacked!
This level of error tends to suggest that this was partially deliberate. It is common practice in missions to add small ships and put them far away pretending to be much larger ship classes (it taxes the CPU and graphics card a lot less to deal with them). Obviously something has gone wrong if those ships are now taking part in the battle rather than lurking thousands of metres away and only appearing on the mission log when destroyed.
Again looking at the Events would quickly give you an idea of what was being attempted here and clues on how to fix it.
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I only gave a cursory glance at the scripting, so my analysis on those two missions above might very well be off. A more in depth look should reveal exactly what madaboutgames intended, and how it can be brought about with the current version of the mod if anyone's up to it.
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My thought on it:
Reporting bugs without checking to see if they are reproducible = not so good
Reporting bugs that are reproducible = OK
Reporting bugs with evidence (screen shots, ect) = Good
Reporting bugs with evidence and fixes = Great
Releasing those fixes without attempting to contact the mission designer = not so great.
So if you can fix them and pass the solution on to to MAG that is great. If no response from MAG (he's usually unavailable for months at a time) then you can release an update.
Also in cases like this we need to know if it works when running the default TBP 3.4b install with 3.6.9 and without Zathras.
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MAG's campaigns are often based on pretty random scripts, which lead to a general high bug level.
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First some comments for FUBAR: Yes, the bugs in "Twilight Struggle" and "Shadow Dancing" are reproducable because they happened all the dozend times I had to replay these two missions ;)! I managed to finish the "Voice in the wilderness" mission on my second try though, while the "View from the gallery" mission still refused to end with the number of enemy ships gone, but the orders not recognized as accomplished. Also I would gladly contact the creator of these missions, but it was already mentioned here that this isn't easy.
I suspect FUBAR was saying that they'd fix the issues if they could confirm them but far be it for us to prevent someone new taking their first steps in modding/FREDding.
It would be cool if someone else would fix these issues, but I guess you professional have more important things to do and if it is really not that complicated to edit existing campaigns to fix typos and misslabeled ships I could take a look, when my time doing the Bloodlines patch allows for it ;). I could then upload the corrected missions for you to check out of course before they are released to the public...
You'd need to look through the mission logic and see what the 2nd Narn Cruiser is being used for.
I guess it was added to prolong the mission as several Narn fighters jump in as well, which isn't at all possible in the show. The strange thing is that with the unlockable Shadow fighters around most of the time you won't survive that long anyway, so I really wonder what this backup is supposed to be for.
This level of error tends to suggest that this was partially deliberate. It is common practice in missions to add small ships and put them far away pretending to be much larger ship classes (it taxes the CPU and graphics card a lot less to deal with them).
That is certainly something different because the "Shadow" Star Fury attacks right at the start together with a bunch of Shadow fighters. Most probably it was just intended to be a Shadow fighter instead. I don't know about the defenseless Shadow crabs, maybe they are supposed to be permanently disabled by the telepaths. It would hardly be possible to win that battle with two more of them alive and active ;)!
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I looked again at "A View From the Gallery." There should be at least two directives on the left side of the screen: "Destroy 1st Alien Wave" and "Destroy 2nd Alien Wave."
Once the conditions for these two events has been met you should receive a message, the text of which simply reads "Good." Ten seconds later the game should automatically dump you at the debriefing screen. I can't think of anything that would override an end-mission SEXP, so something might be messed up earlier in the events.
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I looked again at "A View From the Gallery." There should be at least two directives on the left side of the screen: "Destroy 1st Alien Wave" and "Destroy 2nd Alien Wave."
Yes, both count down enemy ships but once they reach zero the don't grey out and the mission doesn't end...
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There was a bug discovered in end-mission sexp tonight. Not sure if that would cause this issue or not. I'll have to test it out when I get time.
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There was? I've made quite a few changes to that code over the years so I'd be interested in hearing what the problem was.
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Problem was this line:
if (!ignore_player_mortality && (Player_ship->flags && SF_DYING)) {
The second part of that boolean will always evaluate to true.
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Problem was this line: if (!ignore_player_mortality && (Player_ship->flags && SF_DYING)) {
The second part of that boolean will always evaluate to true.
Is this going to change the way end-mission behaves if it is fired after player death?
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Is this a special syntax problem with the "View from the gallery" mission or a case of incompatibility? Can it be fixed?
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Not sure if that would cause this issue or not. I'll have to test it out when I get time.
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Problem was this line: if (!ignore_player_mortality && (Player_ship->flags && SF_DYING)) {
The second part of that boolean will always evaluate to true.
Is this going to change the way end-mission behaves if it is fired after player death?
The fix made it work the way it should have when I added that line. You now have an option in the SEXP to make it check if the player is dead or not.
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Hm, I don't think that fix is the reason the "Wilderness" mission doesn't end, because I didn't die ;). But looking at the mission file I noticed that there is a suborder to destroy breaching pods. I don't think these ever appeared when I played it. Could that be the reason the mission didn't end? I haven't looked deeper into the script yet.
On a positive side I installed the VP viewer extractor tool and was already able to fix "Shadow Dancing" :). I just turned the wrong "Shadow Starfury" model into a Shadow crab and turned the "Shadow Destroyer" into a Shadow fighter, which should keep the mission balance intact as well. It works fine ingame, but how am I supposed to put the fixed fs2 file back into the vp pack? Do I need another tool for that besides the viewer? I also emailed the original creator of that mission for permission to fix it, but I haven't gotten an answer yet...
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You do not need to put the mission file back in the vp, just put it in <TBP directory>\data\missions
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Hm, I don't think that fix is the reason the "Wilderness" mission doesn't end, because I didn't die ;). But looking at the mission file I noticed that there is a suborder to destroy breaching pods. I don't think these ever appeared when I played it. Could that be the reason the mission didn't end? I haven't looked deeper into the script yet.
I don't know about Wilderness, but A View From the Gallery does include a wing of enemy breaching pods. Their arrival/destruction doesn't impact the events in question as far as I can tell.
Here's the list of what has to be destroyed to trigger the end mission event:
$Formula: ( when
( is-destroyed-delay
0
"Alien Main wing A"
"Alien Main wing B"
"Alien Main wing C"
"Alien Main Fleet"
"Alien Advance Fleet"
"Alien Advance wing A"
"Alien Advance wing B"
)
( send-message
"Babylon 5"
"High"
"mission done yeah"
)
)
+Name: mission done yeah
+Repeat Count: 1
+Interval: 1
+Team: 0
And the end mission event itself:
$Formula: ( when
( is-event-true-delay
"mission done yeah"
10
)
( end-mission )
)
+Name: end
+Repeat Count: 1
+Interval: 1
+Team: 0
A lot of the attack wings come in waves, and if those particular directives are not showing up as completed despite their counters showing there are no ships left to be destroyed then I'm guessing a wave failed to show up. This would result in that wing not being considered completely destroyed, thus not satisfying the conditionals for the first event above. I'll have to look at the arrival and departure cues for those ships closer to see if anything is wrong there.
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You do not need to put the mission file back in the vp, just put it in <TBP directory>\data\missions
I'm not talking about playing the missions, that works already :), but on how to present the fixed ones e.g. for the next DVD version. The original B5 Star Fury missions were all included into one vp file and I would like to keep it that way. Also my email to the pack creators was returned, any idea on how to contact them?
I have another problem for the experts here ;). In "Distant Star" and "In the beginning" the briefing screen is not shown. Also in "Shadow Dancing" there is a stage briefing, but again no second briefing, although I can't find any differences in the syntax compared to the working missions. What am I overlooking here?
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If madaboutgames (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=1832)' contact isn't working, you could try sending a private message to IPAndrews. He may have been one of the last people to have direct contact with MAG.
karajorma's FAQ has some information on recompiling .vp files. Check the bottom of this page (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/FAQ/modding.html).
Finally, the three mission above have the "No Briefing" flag checked in the Mission Specs editor. In FRED2, hit Shift+N to open Mission Specs up. The right side of this window is what you're concerned with. You'll see the features I'm talking about over there. In other words, the absence of a briefing in these missions is a design choice on madaboutgames' part. "Shadow Dancing" has that first briefing, usually referred to as a "command briefing," because as far as I know it is not affected by the "No Briefing" flag.
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If madaboutgames (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=1832)' contact isn't working, you could try sending a private message to IPAndrews. He may have been one of the last people to have direct contact with MAG.
Are madaboutgames or MAG aliases of Shaun Williams? I tried the contact on the Heat Em Up webpage but that didn't work...
karajorma's FAQ has some information on recompiling .vp files. Check the bottom of this page (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/FAQ/modding.html).
Thanks, I'll do that when the I'm ready. Yesterday I started removing the wave respawning and sensor-blocked fighters in "Twilight Struggle" as well as fixing the bad ship names.
Finally, the three mission above have the "No Briefing" flag checked in the Mission Specs editor.
Strange, because all of the missions have briefing text included. I'm not using FRED right now, but I'm editing the files directly because most of the time it's only about bad names and stuff. I'll have to take a look at FRED for this...
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Somehow, I don't think that contacting IPAndrews would do any good, based on his last appearances.
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Somehow, I don't think that contacting IPAndrews would do any good, based on his last appearances.
Uh, I just read his profile: "Disgruntled Customer" and "This site stole my work". What is this all about? Is this another alias of Shaun Williams? I don't want to be accussed for "stealing" his work when I am just bugfixing it a little bit...
What I did up to now:
Shadow Dancing: Fixed two bad ship models/names by swapping a fighter and a battlecrab. Changed several ship numbers to start from 1 and not the object number. Changed the briefing so it is the same as with all the other missions.
Twilight Struggle: Removed respawning enemy waves and sensor-invisible fighter because it is not consistent with the episode and the mission. Lowered "pull out" event time so you can witness the end of the batte. Corrected two typos.
A Distant Star: Restored the already existing but diabled briefing.
In the Beginning: Restored the already existing but diabled briefing.
Other missions: Fixed occassional typos or half finished sentences.
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Starting to get into the Bug fixing/FREDding mood? :D I did warn that could happen. :D
As for IP Andrews he's not the same person as MAG. I doubt MAG would complain too much about bugs in his missions being fixed if he's unable to fix them himself.
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Starting to get into the Bug fixing/FREDding mood? :D I did warn that could happen. :D
It's fun and easy, and it has been my hobby with Bloodlines for a long time already :)!
I doubt MAG would complain too much about bugs in his missions being fixed if he's unable to fix them himself.
What I wonder is why these bugs are in there at all. Was he working under a deadline? I mean mixing up a starfury with a battlecrab or calling ships "Shadoo figher" or "hadow battlecrabs". Pure flippancy or what?
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MAG was probably really enthusiastic about getting the missions out, hence the rush. These things can happen.
I was playing Relic yesterday because it's less torturous than my inverse trig integrals and noticed a few bugs/balance issues that never should have made it through. Suffice to say a rerelease is coming out next month. :D
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Somehow, I don't think that contacting IPAndrews would do any good, based on his last appearances.
Uh, I just read his profile: "Disgruntled Customer" and "This site stole my work". What is this all about? Is this another alias of Shaun Williams? I don't want to be accussed for "stealing" his work when I am just bugfixing it a little bit...
What I did up to now:
Shadow Dancing: Fixed two bad ship models/names by swapping a fighter and a battlecrab. Changed several ship numbers to start from 1 and not the object number. Changed the briefing so it is the same as with all the other missions.
Twilight Struggle: Removed respawning enemy waves and sensor-invisible fighter because it is not consistent with the episode and the mission. Lowered "pull out" event time so you can witness the end of the batte. Corrected two typos.
A Distant Star: Restored the already existing but diabled briefing.
In the Beginning: Restored the already existing but diabled briefing.
Other missions: Fixed occassional typos or half finished sentences.
OK now that you have this file it in TBP Mantis along with the fixes and we can test and then decide how to re-release them if MAG doesn't show back up.
If you read this you will see why he shows up so infrequently. http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=67409.msg1342508#msg1342508
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OK now that you have this file it in TBP Mantis along with the fixes and we can test and then decide how to re-release them if MAG doesn't show back up.
At the moment I have the separate fs2 files only, should I pack them back into the vp? Also I don't know what TBP Mantis is, the local ftp site or something? How do I access it? I could always just upload the files to FileFront and PM the link.
If you read this you will see why he shows up so infrequently. http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=67409.msg1342508#msg1342508
Ah, now I understand. Still someone in this thread mentions that he has MAGs EMW missions. Maybe the demo could be expanded into a full campain using them for DVD 2.0?
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Update: I think I'm through with most of the fixes and improvements and already packed the fs2 files into a patch to apply to the mod so there is no additional building of a vp needed. But I have two issues left with "A view from a gallery". Although I finally managed to get the fleet to deploy the breaching pods by setting their $Departure Cue: ( false ) , they appear to soon and don't move. Also although all enemies have been destroye, neither the two objectives to do so grey out, nor the mission ends and I can't see the error. Please help!
Also regarding DVD 2.0, I recommend to rename the Earth Minbari War Demo to Earth Minbari War Mini Campaign and do the same to the Dark Children Mini Campain. Thus it looks better and people'll know what to expect ;)!
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In regards to the breaching pods, tweak their arrival and departure cues as you see fit. If they arrive too early, increase the delay of their appearance after the main fleet from 61 seconds to something higher. Then you simply need to edit their departure cue such that their departure location target is Babylon 5, and they head for it as soon as they arrive. The example below has the Breaching Pods entering the mission about a minute and a half after the main alien force arrives. A second later they head for Babylon 5's docking bay.
(http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/6254/avftg2.jpg) (http://img695.imageshack.us/i/avftg2.jpg/)
The mission breaking problem of hostile wings not registering as being destroyed can be solved similarly. I've noticed each of the hostile fighter wings has 2 or 3 waves of about 6 fighters each. They're set to launch from the enemy capital ships. What's probably happening is that the caps are getting nuked before every wave can be launched, and the mission requires 100% destruction of the enemy waves. When the arrival anchors for those fighter wings is removed from the mission, in this case the capital ships being destroyed, those wings stop showing up. Any remaining waves will not make an appearance, and when the game checks to see if a wing has been destroyed it checks to make sure all the waves of that particular wing were destroyed too. If you blow up the first wave of a 3 wave wing, for instance, you've only done 33% of the work the mission actually demands from you. If the capital ship that deploys those wings gets blown up thereafter, before the remaining 66% can show up in the mission, this goal will never return true.
There are number of ways around this. For one, you can set the arrival location for all hostile ships to "Hyperspace" to guarantee all the fighters will eventually show up. Alternatively, do an overhaul of the mission objectives such that only partial destruction of the total enemy force doesn't break the mission.
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In regards to the breaching pods, tweak their arrival and departure cues as you see fit.
Hm, examining the file after your explanation, the pods probably just need a cue to start towards B5. I'll add a valid one.
I've noticed each of the hostile fighter wings has 2 or 3 waves of about 6 fighters each.
This may be the problem. I'll just remove the additional waves as no cruiser lives long enough to deploy them anyway ;).
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Not a good idea. Good players will take out a wave long before the caps die.
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Not a good idea. Good players will take out a wave long before the caps die.
Okay, I may be just a beginner, but the advance fleet drops 6 fighters and the main fleet 18. There were supposed to be 3 waves in the advance fleet and 4 waves in the main fleet which would make 90 fighters altogther. One of the capital ships would surely die before that number of fighters can be destroyed! Anyhow, I removed the additional waves and finally got the mission end soon after all cruisers had died :).
Speaking of which, I'm now playing "Investation", also by MAG, and I'm stuck in the mission where I should disable the fleeing freighters. I did so, some of them turning friendly and others not, but the mission does not continue. What am I supposed to do now? Disarm the hostile ones too? Is this another script bug?
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If the mission seems to drag without any events taking place, for no apparent reason, and there's nothing to indicate whether you've succeeded or failed, chances are there's something up in the scripting. I'm not sure I ever played Infestation so at this point you've got a better idea of what's up than I do. :)
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Infestation is a pretty old campaign. It predates 3.4b so if it works at all it's borderline miracle.
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Infestation is a pretty old campaign. It predates 3.4b so if it works at all it's borderline miracle.
Maybe I can look into the script and find out what goes wrong. BTW, I'm now through with updating MAGs Star Fury Pilot missions. I even managed to include the cool try-to-escape ending of Twilight Struggle from vidmasters great Dark Children mini campaign into the appropriate mission :)! It's not guaranteed with the random fight, but most of the time it should happen correctly. I think I will upload the whole patch to FileFront tomorrow, so you experts can check it out!
Update: My unofficial patch for the Babylon 5 Star Fury Pilot missions is now available from here:
http://www.filefront.com/17350445/b5sfpup10.zip
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Although I finally managed to get the fleet to deploy the breaching pods by setting their $Departure Cue: ( false ) , they appear to soon and don't move. Also although all enemies have been destroye, neither the two objectives to do so grey out, nor the mission ends and I can't see the error.
The problem here is that if the departure cue becomes true before the arrival cue the ship will never appear in the mission. You simply had to ensure that this didn't happen. Setting it to false rather brute forced the issue. :D
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The problem here is that if the departure cue becomes true before the arrival cue the ship will never appear in the mission. You simply had to ensure that this didn't happen. Setting it to false rather brute forced the issue. :D
Yeah, I fixed that in a working way in the meantime ;). Also Shaun mailed me and gave me permission to update his Star Fury Pilot and Earth Brakiri War packs. So in case you want something more compact for DVD 2.0 I might look into repacking the whole thing, but right now I'm happy with the current "unofficial patch" solution :)!
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Glad to here you have MAG's support to do the updates. Moving this to public development then.
First thing before releasing anything is to put the missions up for beta testing and get some feedback. There are probably more bugs then what you have found and of course the possibility you created some new ones.
As for when release time comes I'm not sure what the best way to proceed would be. One of the bad habit carry overs from the original install was placing mission/campaign VPs right in the root TBP directory. Updating the VP and put it back there would result in not being able to play with the old 3.6.9 builds which is something we try to avoid. Believe it or not there are still people out there using the old 3.6.9 DirectX builds. Another possibility would be to just pack the missions in a MAG.VP and put them in Zathras. As fixes they qualify for being located there. The third option is creating a mod directory for the campaigns and putting the fixed vp's there. I guess it will all come down to how many missions are changed.
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First thing before releasing anything is to put the missions up for beta testing and get some feedback.
I already did this, check out the FileFront link above :)!
As for when release time comes I'm not sure what the best way to proceed would be.
Right now I have just the fs2 files in the patch archive.
Another possibility would be to just pack the missions in a MAG.VP and put them in Zathras.
That could be an option in case I fix his other packs too!