Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sushi on October 01, 2010, 03:58:08 pm

Title: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: Sushi on October 01, 2010, 03:58:08 pm
http://www.whatwepayfor.com/default.aspx?f=2784

I've been looking for a thorough, accessible breakdown of the federal budget like this for a while. Interface takes a couple seconds to get used to, but the data is great!

I hope they keep expanding this, and start to include data for state taxes as well...

Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: Snail on October 01, 2010, 05:02:43 pm
Cool. Is there a UK version?
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: General Battuta on October 01, 2010, 05:08:21 pm
Cool. Is there a UK version?

sure, just remove the dental expendit-

i'm out
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: Shivan Hunter on October 01, 2010, 07:12:44 pm
OOOOH BURRRN

I've seen the numbers before, but I'm still disturbed by the massive amount the US (I don't refer to my country as "we") spends on "defense" (which is really the whole military, not "defense", as far as I can tell). Why are humans so insanely caught up on killing each other?!
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: SpardaSon21 on October 01, 2010, 07:17:46 pm
Because we have been ever since before we achieved full sentience?  Really, like all other animals we compete amongst ourselves and against other species for possession and control of limited resources.  We could try to not do it, but then as we First World nations are all peace-ing out some group of humans without said pacifism finds us soft pickings and decides to kill us and take our land and women.
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: General Battuta on October 01, 2010, 07:32:47 pm
Because we have been ever since before we achieved full sentience?  Really, like all other animals we compete amongst ourselves and against other species for possession and control of limited resources.

Yeah but we don't do it with militaries any more. Militaries are like cops: necessary but no longer (for the moment) a primary means of competition.

Quote
We could try to not do it, but then as we First World nations are all peace-ing out some group of humans without said pacifism finds us soft pickings and decides to kill us and take our land and women.

Sure, maybe, but that doesn't mean our military needs to be the size it is - it's more of a dickwaving thing to keep ourselves in a nominally hegemonic position. Soft power gets the job done better in the long term; the military is just an extension of politics by other means, and policy is an extension of economics.
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: Nuclear1 on October 01, 2010, 08:44:45 pm
Yeah, plus wouldn't it help to have some multinational military alliance to help bear the bur--

Oh. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO)
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 01, 2010, 08:58:01 pm
Oh. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO)

NATO is a defensive alliance. If you want to project power...well you're gonna need to alter the charter a bit.
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: General Battuta on October 01, 2010, 09:02:29 pm
Oh. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO)

NATO is a defensive alliance. If you want to project power...well you're gonna need to alter the charter a bit.

Power projection is overrated anyway, we've lost every offensive war we've started!
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 01, 2010, 09:05:14 pm
Power projection is overrated anyway, we've lost every offensive war we've started!

And done quite a lot to prevent having to fight others. You have a point?
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: General Battuta on October 01, 2010, 09:37:00 pm
Power projection is overrated anyway, we've lost every offensive war we've started!

And done quite a lot to prevent having to fight others. You have a point?

Yes, I'm sure we did a great job intervening in

uh

struggling to find great jobs with positive outcomes
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: noodle on October 01, 2010, 10:17:02 pm
Annual spending on education less than 1/7th what we spend on the military.

ALLOFMYHATEALLOFMYHATEALLOFMYHATEALLOFMYHATE :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: Topgun on October 01, 2010, 10:20:52 pm
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

I like this better.

I particularly like how the gross debt to gdp ratio is almost 93%.
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 02, 2010, 04:08:29 am
Yes, I'm sure we did a great job intervening in

uh

struggling to find great jobs with positive outcomes

Somehow, I think you'll have difficultly proving a negative anyways. Crisis management is sort of about prevention.
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: Pred the Penguin on October 02, 2010, 07:32:25 am
Some of that stuff on there is depressing...
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: General Battuta on October 02, 2010, 08:44:05 am
Yes, I'm sure we did a great job intervening in

uh

struggling to find great jobs with positive outcomes

Somehow, I think you'll have difficultly proving a negative anyways. Crisis management is sort of about prevention.

Yeah, it's definitely true that the results are really complex, but I do think there's - for maybe non-causally-connected reasons - a clear difference between outcomes in our defensive wars and outcomes in our offensive wars.
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: Grizzly on October 02, 2010, 02:40:54 pm
Yes, I'm sure we did a great job intervening in

uh

struggling to find great jobs with positive outcomes

Somehow, I think you'll have difficultly proving a negative anyways. Crisis management is sort of about prevention.

Yeah, it's definitely true that the results are really complex, but I do think there's - for maybe non-causally-connected reasons - a clear difference between outcomes in our defensive wars and outcomes in our offensive wars.

Air Support isn't everything?
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: mxlm on October 03, 2010, 09:02:36 am
we've lost every offensive war we've started!
Except for that one time when we ended up taking half of Mexico. And various other times in which various tribes were soundly defeated. Also the time we thrashed the Spaniards.
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: General Battuta on October 03, 2010, 10:24:41 am
we've lost every offensive war we've started!
Except for that one time when we ended up taking half of Mexico. And various other times in which various tribes were soundly defeated. Also the time we thrashed the Spaniards.

Okay you are totally right. I guess I meant post-WW2.
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: Kosh on October 03, 2010, 10:27:54 am
we've lost every offensive war we've started!
Except for that one time when we ended up taking half of Mexico. And various other times in which various tribes were soundly defeated. Also the time we thrashed the Spaniards.


That was 100+ years ago.......
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: Scotty on October 03, 2010, 11:21:09 am
Wouldn't Grenada and Panama count as wins?

Or are we only talking officially declared wars?
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: General Battuta on October 03, 2010, 11:22:05 am
Wouldn't Grenada and Panama count as wins?

Or are we only talking officially declared wars?

I don't think we've had an officially declared war since WW2, have we? Just talking out of my ass here.
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: Scotty on October 03, 2010, 11:25:08 am
That's kind of why I brought it up.  I'm fairly sure we haven't. :nervous:
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: Sushi on October 03, 2010, 11:50:32 am
Korea?

EDIT: Apparently not.

EDIT again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: mxlm on October 03, 2010, 09:57:20 pm
That was 100+ years ago.......
The various banana wars were more recent. Though not that much more recent.

I think the distinction Batman really wants to make is that wars we fight against other nations go well. Mostly. I mean, there was China that one time. But wars we fight against the local populace and/or imported foreign fighters we are largely unable to distinguish from the local populace, not so much.
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: Nuke on October 04, 2010, 07:58:01 am
i dont pay for ****, the government pays for everything. one of the advantages of being a bum.
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: Klaustrophobia on October 04, 2010, 03:34:00 pm
That was 100+ years ago.......
The various banana wars were more recent. Though not that much more recent.

I think the distinction Batman really wants to make is that wars we fight against other nations go well. Mostly. I mean, there was China that one time. But wars we fight against the local populace and/or imported foreign fighters we are largely unable to distinguish from the local populace, not so much.

basically anything where ROE becomes a factor.
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: Snail on October 04, 2010, 03:36:32 pm
i dont pay for ****, the government pays for everything. one of the advantages of being a bum.
Aren't you even slightly upset that US taxpayer dollars might be going towards the disassembly of nukes?!
Title: Re: What we (in the US) pay for
Post by: Nuke on October 06, 2010, 12:40:47 pm
i dont pay for ****, the government pays for everything. one of the advantages of being a bum.
Aren't you even slightly upset that US taxpayer dollars might be going towards the disassembly of nukes?!

no, because even more money goes into maintaining the ones we plan to keep.