Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => Fate of the Galaxy => Topic started by: bobbtmann on November 12, 2010, 10:06:49 pm
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Would anyone object to me making this ship?
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I've never seen this one before... what Star Wars continuity is it from?
However, should there be any objections, I'd love to see one of these:
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060704214615/starwars/images/e/e2/Dauntless_cruiser.jpg)
Dauntless-Class heavy cruiser.
:cool:
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It was in X-Wing Alliance and dates back to some of the earliest EU books.
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It was also in Empire At War, as a rebel long-range artillery.
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Which was just weird... please don't implement it as artillery.
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Which was just weird... please don't implement it as artillery.
It's also in Empire at War: Forces of Corruption with its regular lasers back (owned by "neutrals")
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I don't know how this would be implemented in the game. Artillery might be cool. Imagine a mission where it pops out of hyperspace really far away, and you have to defend a target from its missiles.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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SSM's? I believe the code supports that but have never used it myself.
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SSM's? I believe the code supports that but have never used it myself.
Go play some BP:WiH. (for actual SSMs)
Or Shivans by Flaming Sword. (for local SSMs)
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I don't think SSMs would fit Star Wars...
In any case, the FoC corvettes is more comprable to the apocalypse from BP.
In gameplay it is actually long range flak because it is mostly ineffective against shielded ships.
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I don't think SSMs would fit Star Wars...
In any case, the FoC corvettes is more comprable to the apocalypse from BP.
In gameplay it is actually long range flak because it is mostly ineffective against shielded ships.
i agree, SSMs aren't very Star Wars-ish.
There are other roles, that this ship could fill gameplay wise.
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In X-W:A it was a pretty good capship for it's size, lethal to any fighters that wander in it's firing solution. Frankly the artillery thing never sat well with me and it was obvious that was just forced for RTS gameplay value. Since FoTG isn't bound by that, I'd suggest keeping it more in line with how it was portrayed in Alliance.
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Oh well. No SSM, then.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Looks really nice so far!
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I think this is one where I'd like to see some reimagining touches that steered it away from Star Trek territory. Small stuff like turbolaser turrets and looking generally beat-up will help things appear more SW, but the overall lines seem like they dropped straight outta TNG. Maybe a less curved, more exposed look for some sections? It does look very nice...
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I think this is one where I'd like to see some reimagining touches that steered it away from Star Trek territory. Small stuff like turbolaser turrets and looking generally beat-up will help things appear more SW, but the overall lines seem like they dropped straight outta TNG. Maybe a less curved, more exposed look for some sections? It does look very nice...
I was thinking the same thing. It's a nice looking ship, but it looks really out of place in Star Wars. I couldn't imagine seeing that ship next to the rest of the capital ships in the Battle of Endor, for example. It either needs to be scaled so far down to be more fighter/light transport sized or completely re-imagined.
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I do agree with the sentiments to date. The ship does look a good deal like an over-sized "shoot-em-up" fighter from the arcade games of the 90's.
If I was to alter the design, I might suggest accentuating or pronouncing the depth and volume of the undersides of the ship - the dorsal profile of the craft should remain fairly smooth and low profile, though the addition of turbolaser blisters and some additional greebling would be appreciated.
Apart from bowing out the underside, I'd suggest smoothing and detailing the wings. This will help migrate the model's appearance away from someone's reimagined fighter concept to that of a larger ship. In this regard, you might reference the Mon Calimari ships, within reason of course.
*EDIT
I'd also suggest keeping the upper surface as smooth as possible, reducing the prominence of the breaks in its surface where able. Any sharp lines and high altitude greebling should be restricted to beneanth the hull, with the exception to the exposed engine machinery above and below the hull.
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Just a quick reminder, this ship is not very big to begin with, and it is also untextured.
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Just a quick reminder, this ship is not very big to begin with, and it is also untextured.
Perhaps you could provide a render with a pilot for size comparison? With no obvious cockpit location (at least that I can tell yet) it's hard to get a sense of scale. I was under the impression that this was supposed to be small capital ship sized.
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The Marauder is 195m long, slightly larger than the vette
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The Marauder is 195m long, slightly larger than the vette
Yeah. It may just be me, but at that size it just feels way too big to fit properly in Star Wars. The way it looks now, it seems like it should be more the size of the Falcon. Otherwise it's a Star Trek vessel.
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To clarify, I think there are just a couple elements that make it seem like a warbird/bird of prey to me. Most obviously, there are the "wings" that curve down with projecting weapon/antenna things on the end. The only canon SW cap ship I know of that has stuff positioned like that is the Neb-B's big turbo on the very bottom. The downward-sloping head also seems trekish to me for some reason, though I like its vaguely Y-wing like shape. Actually now that I think of it, it seems more like the Ferengi ship than anything. I'm not trying to discourage progress on this in any way--just wanted to give a bit more specific feedback than "looks like Trek". Maybe some exposed piping or something like you see on the Corellian Corvette's engine block would sell it for me. :yes:
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It has been noted to look like an oversized fighter in my SW ships guide.
I think it's fine for the Marauder to look like that, though it does have Trek-ish feel.
People sometimes confuse Trek with SW anyway. :)
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When you're flying around these ships in-game, 195 metres doesn't feel very big. So I stand by my work so far. That being said, I'm considering what you've all said about the ship. Particularly de-smoothing it.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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the fighters definitely put it into perspective now. I think it looks great, the details work very well together. :yes:
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Liking the texture so far. I think my main objection might stem from the size of the guns in relation to the ship. Are they about 50m long? I bet if they were replaced with engine pods or turret emplacements or something less obvious that fit in with the rest of the design, I'd love it. It's already a big improvement over the pictures on Wookie, IMO. Is the Cloakshape done? They look pretty sweet flying escort there.
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Actually it looks a lot like a capital ship version of the R-41 Starchaser, only that the wings curve down and forward instead of being straight.
Were they by any chance produced by the same company in the backstory?
(http://www.xwaupgrade.com/renders/small/r41_2_3.png)
Picture from X-Wing Upgrade Project (http://www.xwaupgrade.com)
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Are those actually the guns or just sensor arrays...?
I'm refusing to take how EaW did them as canon.
The Starchaser's made by Hoersch-Kessel or w/e and the Marauder is a Seinar Fleet Systems design so...no they're not by the same manufacturer.
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Why can't they be guns? They could be really inefficient, big guns.
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Why can't they be guns? They could be really inefficient, big guns.
Well for the size thing, they are approaching the length (though not the girth) of the biggest weapons on the ISDII, a dedicated warship hundreds if not thousands of times more massive, and there's really no precedent for having such huge cannons on any of the other movie ships either. I think the biggest guns we've seen on a comparable starship are the dual turrets on the Corellian Corvette, which are already pretty impressively prominent by SW standards. The only vessels we see with this type of proportionately large weaponry are fighters, and really only the X-wing--that might be why some people are picking up a fighter vibe from it.
Also, from a practical standpoint, it doesn't make much sense to have your primary weaponry fixed forward on a ship of this size. Fighter weapons can work facing forward because they are maneuverable enough to line up a shot on their targets without getting pounded into oblivion, but not so with 200m long starships. Anything large enough to be reliably hit by fixed guns on a ship like this is probably something a ship like this should be running away from, not charging towards. If they were for sensors or something then that would be more believable IMO, though those might work better facing upwards from a central location, like on the Neb-B.
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...And the star destroyer's mighty guns are nonexistant in the movies, so obviously scale is not very important in the Star Wars universe.
I'll consider what the ship looks like without them, and base my judgement on the formal issues.
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...And the star destroyer's mighty guns are nonexistant in the movies, so obviously scale is not very important in the Star Wars universe.
Don't say such things, Brand might hear you! :lol:
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First I think the design of the ship looks fabulous!
Possible dilemma with those being guns, other than the above strategic issues. For a ship of that size, the power core you would need to drive those relative to the ISD or MC ships would have to be massive. Either that, or the thing is going to be slower than molasses climbing up a dirt hill in January due to pulling the power off the main drive systems. A possible alternative would be warhead launchers. Then stack some laser batteries on it for anti-fighter set up. This way it can still give a punch but in limited quantity.
The closest parallel to it I can think of would be the load out on IJN cruisers. There main batteries were not very formidable not unlike the anti-fighter lasers I was suggesting. But the Japanese had massive torpedoes they could launch off their cruisers that were devastating to surface vessels. It was a fairly limited quantity of warheads available.
If you did decide to go that route I would modify the looks and length just a bit to look more like warhead launchers. It still gives you the same overall look and feel that you have now.
Admittedly I may be speaking out of turn on this. I just wanted to offer the thought.
Looking forward to seeing it in game!
WOLF_Angel
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It's an idea. I'm not sure how popular large scale missile launchers are as a Star Wars thing. Plus, most of the big ships (and older ships too) seem to be geared toward anti-cap fighting, and ignoring fighters altogether.
The reason I prefer the way they are right now is this:
The wings need something to finish them off, visually. Something at the end of the wing would also direct the viewers' eyes back towards the front of the ship. Large missile launchers would also work in this regard, but only if everyone is okay with ssm missiles in the game.
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I prefer lasers to missiles in SW, maybe some bulge in the underhull could be the power generator for the two wing mounted heavy turbolasers.
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Well with a name like Marauder it could be all in one delivery type deal. Big damage very slow recharge. Jump in, acquire target, fire, and get the heck out of there if you don't cripple your target.
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Mass drivers... :drevil:
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Oh God, please, nothing from Empire at War.
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They could be heavy turbolasers, making Marauder a heavy assault ship.
It could attack much larger warships (even ISDs, in groups and from the rear), as long as it's facing the enemy and as long as only one can get them in sights.
After being attacked by fighters, flanked, or getting into enemy heavy cannon range, it'd be gutted in no time though.
Agility could help while dealing with flanking, but it'd still not last that long against multiple opponents.
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I'm modeling the turrets right now. So, should this ship have anti-fighter turrets, or just anti cap turrets? The Wookieepedia says it only has a few double turbolasers turrets. Keep in mind that older ships in Star Wars seem to forgo antifighter weapons, or have very few. It feels right that the marauder would do the same.
On another topic, I've decided to keep the long guns on the wings. I tried swapping them out, and it didn't feel right. So perhaps they could just be regular weapons in oversized turrets, or a big damage gun with a long reload (to keep its damage-per-second in line with other, smaller guns). The diameter of the barrel is big enough that it could be used as a missile launcher, if so desired.
I also didn't include a fighterbay in this model.
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Seems odd that a cap ship with no fighterbay would only have anti-cap ship weapons, but that seems to fit it's description better.
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If it says turbolasers, make them turbolasers. I'd also add some ion cannons, because it would make sense for an anti-pirate corvette to have them.
The missiles will do as anti-fighter defense.
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My memory of XW:A is a little fuzzy, but may I suggest something:
the marauder corvette was used mostly by pirates, smugglers etc. in XW:A. Whether it's a coincidence or the developers specifically used that name for the ship, but it sounds like a pirate vessel. I would suggest that those two ridiculously over-sized barrels are actually massive turbolasers (or ion cannons) that are generally far beyond the capacity of the ship's reactor to power them up for combat use, so they're more like one-time affair. If it's a pirate vessel it would be used to attack convoys or loner merchant ships (something that can fit Rebel mission profiles, too) then those huge turbolasers may be of use - a single powerful shot to cripple any freighter that refuses to surrender in the shortest amount of time.
After firing, they small ship reactor would need some time before charging them for another use. It's an overpowered hit-and-run weapon, not a straight "broadside exchange" capital ship weapon.
Okay, I pulled this off mostly from my imagination, pirate lore and memories from XW:A, but IMHO it makes more sense than having a 190m slow corvette with weak shields and a small reactor being a purpose-built anti-capital ship... or anti-fighter, it just doesn't look right for that role.
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Yes, low refire rate turbos were already suggested and seem like the most prudent course of action. Agree on adding ion cannons, would make for a perfect pirate, or anti-pirate ship.
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slow turbos and giving it fighter-like AI.
I can imagine doing a mission escorting them as they do an attack run on a VSD...
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Alright, then I'll put two types of turrets, one set for turbolasers and the other for ion cannons.
I like the feel of them in this here sketch:
[attachment deleted by ninja]
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Texturing in progress:
[attachment deleted by ninja]
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looks a bit cartoony ATM, but im sure its just 'cause its WIP
looking real nice, regardless.
keep up the good work
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Actually, I was just going to make a light map and call it done. Any suggestions?
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I quite like the shape, overall design, and texture resolution. I'd change the yellow parts to something darker, more frightening. Remember that the Marauder is primarily a pirate ship, so make it scary-looking.
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Suddenly, I feel the Marauder would look amazing as a Reaver ship.
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That's looking great, though I'm also not a huge fan of that yellow. Awesome work expanding the ship set over the past few months, bobbtmann! :yes:
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Yea the yellow looks weird. I'd desaturate and darken it a bit. I'd also add a lot more wear & tear to the whole ship.
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Meh...still not a fan of the ship in general, mostly because it still looks like a really big fighter, but that doesn't stop this from being an excellent looking model. Good work.
As for improvements, I'd say putting a WHOLE lot more detail in the texture around the engines would add lots to improving its feel of scale. Greeble that sucker up.
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Okay, the ship has been finished and uploaded.
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc433/bobbtmann/Fate%20of%20the%20Galaxy/marauder20.jpg)
Here's the yellow version, with the dirt layer:
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc433/bobbtmann/Fate%20of%20the%20Galaxy/Marauder19.jpg)
So yeah, glad to finally get that out the door.
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Looks great, and I just wrote it into one of our campaigns :D
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Looking good. My only suggestion would be for the dirty version to have some paint chipping and fading. I find the best way to do this, with chipping, is to use a hard edged, random brush with 100% opacity and create a new layer on top of the paint layer, painting a basic undertone colour. Then for fading I use the same colour but a very low opacity and soft brush to add some variation. Also with the dirt I try to incorporate details from the normal map in, for example, if I had a splotch of dirt on a flat area and there's a raised surface on the normal map that intersects with that splotch, I'll erase some of that dirt on the raised portion, I find it really helps increasing the realism of the dirt to combine that with different patterns of dirt on different plates of the surface.
For an example, I'd suggest looking at the Tantive IV studio model, notice how the raised areas and plates break up the dirt, also the chipped and faded red trim.
(http://swc.fs2downloads.com/reference/3dscifi_Jedilaw/Tantive_IV/TantiveIVBridge6comp.jpg)
We have a full gallery of refs on it here, if you want to take a look: http://swc.fs2downloads.com/reference.php?subdir=3dscifi_Jedilaw%2FTantive_IV%2F&page=1&sort=MTIME_DESC&images=0
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Good job with this. :yes: The subsystems especially look good and that set of working files you uploaded is great. I have a lot on my plate right now so I probably won't convert this right away, but it shouldn't be a lot of work so I'll get around to it eventually.
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I'll revamp the paint texture then and add the chips to the normal map, then. Should make it look more used and second hand.
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I add a little of the paint chipping to normal maps for fighters, but I think on a larger ship like the marauder it'd break the sense of scale. After all, even a slight difference on the normal map is a significant height difference on a large ship, how thick is the paint? See what I'm getting at?
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So I did pretty much what you suggested, except that I used an alpha map on my paint layer, instead of a separate layer over top. It seems to work well, and if you have variations in colour under the paint, those variations are preserved.
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...And they've been uploaded to the ftp. There are three variants up right now, and I prefer the yellow. But really it could be any colour, it's up to whoever is picking the colour scheme for the pirates.
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well, bobby you may be happy to know that the faction that used the marauder most extensively was the CSA (coporate sector authority) as they actualy produced it