Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: IceFire on April 29, 2002, 06:40:38 pm

Title: VW Update
Post by: IceFire on April 29, 2002, 06:40:38 pm: Hey All

Sorry about the extended downtime. We are still having some problems with the Volition Watch servers and as of right now, they are still not working. We hope that the problem will be fixed quickly so that things can get back to normal around here. My forum habits have been disrupted for over a week now (with no HLP or no VW), I'm hoping my addiciton can be resumed.

We'll get it fixed one way or another. Thanks for listening.
Title: VW Update
Post by: Shrike on April 29, 2002, 08:12:33 pm: Damn..... any news as to what's causing it?
Title: VW Update
Post by: heretic on April 29, 2002, 08:17:14 pm: some people know

:wakka:
Title: VW Update
Post by: delta_7890 on April 29, 2002, 08:37:17 pm: Quote
Originally posted by heretic
some people know

:wakka:

:wtf:
Title: VW Update
Post by: CP5670 on April 29, 2002, 08:38:53 pm: ;7

Anyway, it's good to hear that the problem is being worked on. :) (it would be really funny if HLP went down again the same day VW came back up :D:D)
Title: VW Update
Post by: Fineus on April 30, 2002, 01:17:08 am: I gather Telefragged forgot to renew the domain name again, don't quote me on this though. Good luck getting it up Ice :)
Title: VW Update
Post by: EdrickV on April 30, 2002, 03:04:04 am: Quote
Originally posted by Thunder
I gather Telefragged forgot to renew the domain name again, don't quote me on this though. Good luck getting it up Ice :)

If the domain name is the problem, and the server can still be run, we could probably access it by using it's IP address. :)
Domain names are just "friendly names" that get translated into IP addresses after all.
Title: VW Update
Post by: IceFire on April 30, 2002, 08:48:52 am: So far I can't resolve the IP...unless anyone has a better idea...it'll just have to wait till someone at TF does something about it.
Title: VW Update
Post by: aldo_14 on April 30, 2002, 08:56:53 am: Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
;7

Anyway, it's good to hear that the problem is being worked on. :) (it would be really funny if HLP went down again the same day VW came back up :D:D)

Don't jinx it.......
Title: VW Update
Post by: Fury on April 30, 2002, 09:48:51 am: Quote
Originally posted by IceFire
So far I can't resolve the IP...unless anyone has a better idea...it'll just have to wait till someone at TF does something about it.

Let me guess... they'll do something about that in june, right? :rolleyes:
Title: VW Update
Post by: EdrickV on April 30, 2002, 01:25:03 pm: Quote
Originally posted by IceFire
So far I can't resolve the IP...unless anyone has a better idea...it'll just have to wait till someone at TF does something about it.

Assuming the server is running, if someone with access to it could get it's IP address and E-Mail it to one of us we might be able to access the VW site using it. Otherwise, we still have HLP and I like using HLP better. :)
Title: VW Update
Post by: IceFire on April 30, 2002, 03:45:56 pm: You all make me feel reassured...
Title: VW Update
Post by: Fineus on April 30, 2002, 03:47:52 pm: Well I value both sites equally :nod:
Title: VW Update
Post by: Blue Lion on April 30, 2002, 03:49:15 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Thunder
Well I value both sites equally :nod:

With that testimonial I think I will visit VW now (well not now)
Title: VW Update
Post by: Fineus on April 30, 2002, 03:53:48 pm: Lol, no it's not like that at all - I'm not trying to make out that if I didn't value them equally one or the other would be any worse, I just think they both contribute and have contributed a great deal to the community and that without one or the other the community would be a very different place to be!
Title: VW Update
Post by: Blue Lion on April 30, 2002, 03:55:03 pm: I know I'm just ribbing ya ;7
Title: VW Update
Post by: EdrickV on April 30, 2002, 04:07:02 pm: The two main things I didn't like about VW were technical. Even when I had the "Email Notification" checked I never got any E-mail about replies to topics on VWBB. I also got script errors when moving the mouse cursor over the VB Code buttons while trying to quote someone via the "Quote" link that's after every post. Their FS2 forums, AFAIK, were rather new too while HLPs have been around a while. If the E-mail notification worked (and VWBB was up) I'd be visiting it more, now that I have an account there, since those E-mails are how I usually get back to the forums and to topics I'm interested in. (Like this one. :)) For forums (like EZ Board ones) where there isn't an E-mail notice, I tend to forget about them for a while. :) I don't have anything against VWBB itself or the people there. First time I visited it was when HLP went down. I've been to their site before, but don't remember what else was on it. (Would have been between several months and a year or two ago.) I've only recently gone from D3 mission editing to FS2 modding. And the Robotech MOD is what really got me interested in FS2 modding. (Wanted to make some Zentradi ships and send them to the mod staff 'cause there aren't many Zentradi ships in the mod yet.) My initial attempt in TS1 was a dismal failure. Imagine a sideways cylinder with rounded ends, one more "flat" then the other and not actually attached. And it had a bad axis location to boot. But it was textured. :)
Title: VW Update
Post by: Zeronet on April 30, 2002, 04:12:29 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Thunder
Well I value both sites equally :nod:

Always the diplomat. Treading the middle path. One much watch their foot, for if one falls to the dark path, it will forever consume your destiny.
Title: VW Update
Post by: heretic on April 30, 2002, 04:20:26 pm: my heirarchy:

Warpstorm
.....||........
HLP---VW
.....||........
everything else
Title: VW Update
Post by: Fineus on April 30, 2002, 04:22:01 pm: I have to be a diplomat - I'm one of the webmasters, but I'm sure everyone has noticed my slightly hot temper from time to time... I may be the diplomat but I'm not always to good at it :)

That said, I really do value both sites equally... thats the honest truth, no diplomicy :yes:
Title: VW Update
Post by: Blue Lion on April 30, 2002, 04:22:26 pm: Mines close

Warpstorm -SSC Boards
.....||........
HLP-- Csouls
.....||........
everything else
Title: VW Update
Post by: Zeronet on April 30, 2002, 04:22:29 pm: Quote
Originally posted by heretic
my heirarchy:

Warpstorm
.....||........
HLP---VW
.....||........
everything else

Careful one must be, yes. Would that be a top down view or is warpstorm above everything else?
Title: VW Update
Post by: Blue Lion on April 30, 2002, 04:27:08 pm: Warpstorm owns everything
Title: VW Update
Post by: Zeronet on April 30, 2002, 04:31:22 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Blue Lion
Warpstorm owns everything

No the force does, for it binds us and makes us what we are. When one is one with the force, you are one with yourself. Peace is what a Jedi seeks with the force, for you then gain peace with yourself.
Title: VW Update
Post by: Blue Lion on April 30, 2002, 04:32:10 pm: Remind me to watch Star Wars so I can come up with a witty remark to that......
Title: VW Update
Post by: Zeronet on April 30, 2002, 04:34:51 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Blue Lion
Remind me to watch Star Wars so I can come up with a witty remark to that......

Remind you i shall not, for you must have the courage to remember yourself, no Jedi would you make!
Title: VW Update
Post by: Blue Lion on April 30, 2002, 04:42:04 pm: You suck as Yoda
Title: VW Update
Post by: Zeronet on April 30, 2002, 04:43:45 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Blue Lion
You suck as Yoda

You suck as yourself :p :D
Title: VW Update
Post by: Blue Lion on April 30, 2002, 04:45:33 pm: How can I? I'm myself by default, no matter how I act :ha:
Title: VW Update
Post by: Zeronet on April 30, 2002, 04:49:07 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Blue Lion
How can I? I'm myself by default, no matter how I act :ha:

You misinterpret the humorous, non offencive phrase. Also at what point was i being Yoda? I was merely acting as i always do.
Title: VW Update
Post by: Blue Lion on April 30, 2002, 04:52:27 pm: Well you need to take a few more writing classes I think :D And I'm just messing with ya, you would think by now everyone would realize I'm not even remotely serious :D
Title: VW Update
Post by: Zeronet on April 30, 2002, 04:54:01 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Blue Lion
Well you need to take a few more writing classes I think :D And I'm just messing with ya, you would think by now everyone would realize I'm not even remotely serious :D

Yeah, i could never take a blue lion seriously, the mental image of a lion that is blue is funny enough.
Title: VW Update
Post by: CP5670 on April 30, 2002, 04:59:40 pm: He uses an image of a blue-shaded lion head on the SSC boards. :D
Title: VW Update
Post by: Blue Lion on April 30, 2002, 05:09:38 pm: Wha?

(http://server45.hypermart.net/icestar/lonewolf/avatar.gif)

Oh silly me, how'd that get there?
Title: VW Update
Post by: Corsair on April 30, 2002, 05:18:46 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Zeronet
No the force does, for it binds us and makes us what we are. When one is one with the force, you are one with yourself. Peace is what a Jedi seeks with the force, for you then gain peace with yourself.
[Ewan McGregor]Yes master. :nod:[/Ewan McGregor]
[Jake Lloyd]Master Zeronet sir, what are these "midihangers" you speak of?[/Jake Lloyd]

:D
Title: VW Update
Post by: heretic on April 30, 2002, 06:29:45 pm: http://www.warpstorm.com/oracle/listdetails.php?TopicID=13
Title: VW Update
Post by: Corsair on April 30, 2002, 06:32:20 pm: :lol::lol:
Title: VW Update
Post by: Sandwich on April 30, 2002, 07:09:08 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Blue Lion
...I'm not even remotely serious :D

Need I say it? ;7 :lol: ;7 :lol: ;7
Title: VW Update
Post by: Blue Lion on April 30, 2002, 07:13:24 pm: Quote
Originally posted by sandwich

Need I say it? ;7 :lol: ;7 :lol: ;7

That's why I said it :D
Title: VW Update
Post by: Styxx on April 30, 2002, 07:15:37 pm: Quote
Originally posted by sandwich
Need I say it? ;7 :lol: ;7 :lol: ;7

SERIOUSLY!! :D ;7
Title: VW Update
Post by: IceFire on April 30, 2002, 10:35:49 pm: Quote
I have to be a diplomat - I'm one of the webmasters, but I'm sure everyone has noticed my slightly hot temper from time to time... I may be the diplomat but I'm not always to good at it

That said, I really do value both sites equally... thats the honest truth, no diplomicy

Thanks Thunder. You can be a hot head and a diplomat at the same time...one isn't more against your character than another.

This community has always worked best when there were two or three sites operating within it. At one time it was PFS, DC, and then GFS. Sub in Ross128 for a long time too because they were always there and there was a great spirit of trying to do something different. Although we seem to cross paths more often than not recently...VWatch is still Volition oriented while HLP I think is more genre oriented (I-War, FreeSpace, FreeLancer, etc). Its a good mix...and we need to make sure that our collective efforts are for a better whole than a conflicted one.
Title: VW Update
Post by: LtNarol on April 30, 2002, 10:50:49 pm: the force is weak with these ones...
Title: VW Update
Post by: Fineus on May 01, 2002, 01:41:19 am: I agree Ice :nod:

Oh, and for the rest of you - enough with the force jokes... they weren't funny 3 years ago and they aren't funny now. :doh:
Title: VW Update
Post by: Fury on May 01, 2002, 02:11:39 am: Come on! I'm starting a riot here if VW is not coming online now!
;)

I'm missing VWBB... *shivers*

Grrrrrrrr..... :headz:
Title: VW Update
Post by: Stunaep on May 01, 2002, 02:55:11 am: Quote
Originally posted by Thunder
I agree Ice :nod:

Oh, and for the rest of you - enough with the force jokes... they weren't funny 3 years ago and they aren't funny now. :doh:

I wasn't here three years ago, so let 'em roll!!! :nod:

Hey, gotta fill in a newbie on the force jokes, right?
Title: VW Update
Post by: Sandwich on May 01, 2002, 04:02:26 am: Quote
Originally posted by Thunder
Oh, and for the rest of you - enough with the force jokes... they weren't funny 3 years ago and they aren't funny now. :doh:

Don't worry, Thunder - I'll do my best to force them to stop with the... Oh, drat. :doh: :lol:
Title: VW Update
Post by: Fineus on May 01, 2002, 04:27:52 am: Seriously!! :p
Title: VW Update
Post by: Sandwich on May 01, 2002, 04:47:23 am: Quote
Originally posted by Thunder
Seriously!! :p

Yeah, yeah - everyone's a comedian. Sheesh! :p

:doubt: Have you even played that game?? :wtf:
Title: VW Update
Post by: IceFire on May 01, 2002, 07:32:05 am: Quote
Originally posted by LtNarol
the force is weak with these ones...

Wisdom and understanding is part of the force. Some people around here demonstrate that with great ability. The Force may be a fictional construct, but the ideals are what fans should be able to take away from the fiction.
Title: VW Update
Post by: Fineus on May 01, 2002, 07:43:15 am: IceFire has a point and as near as I can make out the whole Force deal is a bit of a rip-off of the religion of Wicca or Paganism which follows the principle that everything is alive and embodied by a spirit, only the wise and careful can truly harness the power that comes with that.

Don't quote me on this though - I'm still learning.
Title: VW Update
Post by: aldo_14 on May 01, 2002, 08:07:44 am: Quote
Originally posted by Blue Lion
How can I? I'm myself by default, no matter how I act :ha:

It's true. I've fiddled with the settings, but no change ;7
Title: VW Update
Post by: IceFire on May 01, 2002, 09:42:36 am: Apparently enough put 'Jedi Knight' on their census forms in England to warrant it being an official category on the next census :)

All the power to them I suppose.
Title: VW Update
Post by: Zeronet on May 01, 2002, 09:51:15 am: Quote
Originally posted by IceFire
Apparently enough put 'Jedi Knight' on their census forms in England to warrant it being an official category on the next census :)

All the power to them I suppose.

Its an official religion :D.
Title: VW Update
Post by: Styxx on May 01, 2002, 12:53:12 pm: Quote
Originally posted by IceFire
Apparently enough put 'Jedi Knight' on their census forms in England to warrant it being an official category on the next census :)

All the power to them I suppose.

World's full of weird people, eh? :p
Title: VW Update
Post by: IceFire on May 01, 2002, 01:19:34 pm: Hey...I'd rather it be "Jedi Knight" over "fascist bad guys"....and even thats stereotyping :)
Title: VW Update
Post by: Kellan on May 01, 2002, 01:50:12 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Zeronet

Its an official religion :D.

Apparently, it's not. I think that the government disregarded it or something. I read a news story somewhere...but I don't remember where. :doh:

It all seems a bit odd when you can be a Wicca, Satanist, etc... ;)
Title: VW Update
Post by: Shrike on May 01, 2002, 01:50:45 pm: Want a taste of religion? Lick a witch.
Title: VW Update
Post by: Styxx on May 01, 2002, 01:52:09 pm: LOL! :lol: :lol:
Title: VW Update
Post by: Blue Lion on May 01, 2002, 01:52:53 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
Want a taste of religion? Lick a witch.

:lol: :wakka: :lol:
Title: VW Update
Post by: Kellan on May 01, 2002, 02:20:01 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
Want a taste of religion? Lick a witch.

Eeeeww... :sigh: But also, :ha: :ha: :ha:
Title: VW Update
Post by: Fineus on May 01, 2002, 02:30:39 pm: I think most of you still think witches look like this:
(http://www.animationartgallery.com/images/wdc/wdc899.jpg)
Right? :wtf:

Besides - in Wiccas defence, at least you don't have wars over it...
Title: VW Update
Post by: Kellan on May 01, 2002, 02:39:58 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Thunder
Besides - in Wiccas defence, at least you don't have wars over it...

Thunder, are you turning into a witch or something? :wtf:

In that case, I'd better not piss you off. :eek:

And don't even get me started on the religion/war thing. I think that I've started wars over the wars caused by religion at school with my friend Charlynne (the singular Christian in my entire year).
Title: VW Update
Post by: Zeronet on May 01, 2002, 02:42:17 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Thunder
I think most of you still think witches look like this:
(http://www.animationartgallery.com/images/wdc/wdc899.jpg)
Right? :wtf:

Besides - in Wiccas defence, at least you don't have wars over it...

yeah, because few people(?) have it as their religion, which is a good thing.
Title: VW Update
Post by: Fineus on May 01, 2002, 02:45:43 pm: Turning into a witch? no, but I am studying the religion. Several of my college friends are interested in it and one of them actually is a witch (though she won't admit it... says she's just into it).

But I've read over 20 websites on the topic and got a couple of books and it appears as though this faith involves all the typical respect for man, the planet and so on without the "it's the only way" approach that some religions carry with them. That freedom immediatly bumps them way up my list of respectable religions... wether I believe or not is another matter and one I want to find out for myself some day...

Looks back up the thread... talk about a topic hi-jack!
Title: VW Update
Post by: Kellan on May 01, 2002, 02:49:33 pm: Oh yeah? Well, that's persecution man...and that's....I'm gonna form a group against your kind of petty persecution. And it's gonna be called:

Wiccas
Against
Zeronet's
Persecution

Yeah! Right on!

:doubt: :rolleyes:
Title: VW Update
Post by: Kellan on May 01, 2002, 02:51:25 pm: I was kidding, Thundar. :p
Title: VW Update
Post by: Fineus on May 01, 2002, 02:54:45 pm: I wasn't taking you seriously ;)
Title: VW Update
Post by: Blue Lion on May 01, 2002, 02:55:33 pm: This is the internet, no one is serious, cept maybe sandwich
Title: VW Update
Post by: Fineus on May 01, 2002, 02:57:39 pm: Seriously!!

Runs to the safety of the staff forum...
Title: VW Update
Post by: Kellan on May 01, 2002, 03:13:57 pm: AAAAHHHH!!!

:eek: :eek2: :nervous: :shaking:
Title: VW Update
Post by: Zeronet on May 01, 2002, 03:33:56 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Kellan
Oh yeah? Well, that's persecution man...and that's....I'm gonna form a group against your kind of petty persecution. And it's gonna be called:

Wiccas
Against
Zeronet's
Persecution

Yeah! Right on!

:doubt: :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:
Title: VW Update
Post by: Kellan on May 01, 2002, 03:45:54 pm: BTW, where in Britain are you, Zero?
Title: VW Update
Post by: Zeronet on May 01, 2002, 03:47:38 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Kellan
BTW, where in Britain are you, Zero?

In that large town between Liverpool and Manchester.
Title: VW Update
Post by: Kellan on May 01, 2002, 03:50:44 pm: Juh wuh?

I wish I knew some geography. :o
Title: VW Update
Post by: Zeronet on May 01, 2002, 03:52:53 pm: The North west of the most brilliant country of England.
Title: VW Update
Post by: Kellan on May 01, 2002, 04:25:07 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Zeronet
The North west of the most brilliant country of England.

Which "country of England" would that be, then? :p
Title: VW Update
Post by: Zeronet on May 01, 2002, 04:28:00 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Kellan

Which "country of England" would that be, then? :p

You are mislead as to the meaning of my post, due to various reason, possibly grammitical you believed that i was possibly refering to a county, when in fact i was stating that England was a most brilliant country.
Title: VW Update
Post by: Kellan on May 01, 2002, 04:31:34 pm: Ah. All becomes clear within my clouded mind. I am at peace.
Title: VW Update
Post by: Zeronet on May 01, 2002, 04:33:58 pm: Clouded by evil thoughts not doubt! One must look past the skyline and into the heavens and if ye casts out evil from ye live, you shall live in the glory of the light.
Title: VW Update
Post by: Kellan on May 01, 2002, 04:35:21 pm: Aye, and all the sacred mannas, and fishies, that come with the true enlightment of inner purityye shall have, and ye shall enjoy.

BTW: you missed a ye. ;)
Title: VW Update
Post by: Zeronet on May 01, 2002, 04:38:47 pm: I selectively placed them Mr Kellan.
Title: VW Update
Post by: Kellan on May 01, 2002, 04:44:25 pm: You missed an 'a'. And there are too many 'e's.
Title: VW Update
Post by: Zeronet on May 01, 2002, 04:50:53 pm: Really? Look again Mr Kellan.
Title: VW Update
Post by: Styxx on May 01, 2002, 06:09:49 pm: Insightful little discussion, this one o' yours... :rolleyes:
Title: VW Update
Post by: Shrike on May 01, 2002, 07:39:53 pm: Should I be impressed or horrified at my ability to cause mass chaos from one simple little comment?
Title: VW Update
Post by: Thorn on May 01, 2002, 07:43:29 pm: A little from Column A and a little from Column B....
Title: VW Update
Post by: Styxx on May 01, 2002, 07:44:35 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
Should I be impressed or horrified at my ability to cause mass chaos from one simple little comment?

Horrified. The way a 5 years old would be horrified if he discovered he had pyrokinetic powers by burning down his house with his parents inside.
Title: VW Update
Post by: IceFire on May 01, 2002, 09:17:43 pm: Ummm....why yes Styxx! Yes! Thats it.....

......right!

*runs away*
Title: VW Update
Post by: Styxx on May 01, 2002, 09:26:00 pm: Quote
Originally posted by IceFire
*runs away*

Hey, that's MY line! :D
Title: VW Update
Post by: IceFire on May 01, 2002, 09:26:28 pm: In relation to getting a certain few models done? :D :D :D :D :D
Title: VW Update
Post by: Styxx on May 01, 2002, 09:35:36 pm: Quote
Originally posted by IceFire
In relation to getting a certain few models done? :D :D :D :D :D

Hm... er...

*runs*
Title: VW Update
Post by: Stunaep on May 02, 2002, 12:03:10 am: Quote
Originally posted by Styxx

Hey, that's MY line! :D

Isn't that just *runs* ????
Title: VW Update
Post by: Blue Lion on May 02, 2002, 12:07:31 am: Quote
Originally posted by Styxx

*runs*

It is indeed :D
Title: VW Update
Post by: Bobboau on May 02, 2002, 12:13:03 am: Quote
Originally posted by IceFire
In relation to getting a certain few models done? :D :D :D :D :D

I'll get them done as soon as VW gets back up :p
Title: VW Update
Post by: Kellan on May 02, 2002, 01:06:15 am: Which may well be never, at this rate... :sigh:

I'd also like to apologise for the low-intensity war that I seemed to be fighting with Zeronet last night. I don't know what got into me...but it was fun... ;7
Title: VW Update
Post by: WMCoolmon on May 02, 2002, 01:16:13 am: That's no war...IT'S A SPAMMING ATTEMPT :eek:
And you know happens to spammers...:drevil:
Bring out the BFReds! ;7
and when will VWatch be up? What's the problem?
Title: VW Update
Post by: Fineus on May 02, 2002, 01:45:53 am: Stand down children, you can still see Shrike on Nickleodeon :lol:
Title: VW Update
Post by: Zeronet on May 02, 2002, 01:55:36 am: Quote
Originally posted by Kellan
Which may well be never, at this rate... :sigh:

I'd also like to apologise for the low-intensity war that I seemed to be fighting with Zeronet last night. I don't know what got into me...but it was fun... ;7

I didnt know it was a war or a fight.
Title: VW Update
Post by: Sandwich on May 02, 2002, 02:09:39 am: :lol: This topic is almost as amusing as that "Thunder!!" one I started, which - hey! WHERE DID IT GO!?!?!! :(
Title: VW Update
Post by: Kellan on May 02, 2002, 06:13:17 am: Quote
Originally posted by Zeronet

I didnt know it was a war or a fight.

Well if it wasn't a war to you, it wasn't a war to me. That way there are no annoying peace treaties and I don't have to occupy anything that you own, or vice versa. :D
Title: VW Update
Post by: Alikchi on May 02, 2002, 07:00:27 am: And we STILL don't know where in England Zeronet lives. :p
Title: VW Update
Post by: IceFire on May 02, 2002, 07:40:21 am: Quote
Well if it wasn't a war to you, it wasn't a war to me. That way there are no annoying peace treaties and I don't have to occupy anything that you own, or vice versa.

PEACE TREATY! PEACE TREATY! I want to see reparations!! :D
Title: VW Update
Post by: Stunaep on May 02, 2002, 08:08:54 am: Quote
Originally posted by sandwich
:lol: This topic is almost as amusing as that "Thunder!!"

You should not have said that. Now there is no hope for this topic.

You just killed a topic.

Murderer.:mad2:
Title: VW Update
Post by: Fineus on May 02, 2002, 09:22:16 am: This is getting stupid, we need to cut down on spam. Thread locked.