Hard Light Productions Forums

Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Blue Planet => Topic started by: DarthWang on November 22, 2010, 08:43:48 pm

Title: Suggestion
Post by: DarthWang on November 22, 2010, 08:43:48 pm

I recently started replaying Age of Aquarius (great campaign), but I noticed that the Lucifer's cannons were still using the red beams from FS2, shouldn't you replace them with the Shivan Superlaser - type beams from FSPort?

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: General Battuta on November 22, 2010, 08:47:17 pm

Mmmm....maybe. BPVerse canon arms the Lucifer with 2 LReds and 2 HReds, and since this is the loadout in 'Curse of Prescience' and 'Fallen Angel' it's presumably what the Lucifer that destroyed alternEarth was armed with. We might just assume that any 'BPFSport' would arm the ship with LReds and HReds instead of SSLBeams?

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: DarthWang on November 22, 2010, 08:52:55 pm

I think it kind of destroys the SoD

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: General Battuta on November 22, 2010, 08:56:52 pm

Quote from: DarthWang on November 22, 2010, 08:52:55 pm

I think it kind of destroys the SoD

Er...you do? The SSLBeam is an invention of the FSPort; there's nothing canonical about it.

It could be changed, I supposed, but it would then create an inconsistency with the same Lucifer's appearance in 'Curse of Prescience' and 'Fallen Angel'.

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Rodo on November 22, 2010, 08:58:59 pm

You made me recall something!
I just replayed AoA recently as well:

Spoiler:

Played with BP1 selected as mod using 3.6.12 Final and in the mission where you are supposed to rescue the Orestes if you destroy all Lucy's reactors and at the same time the Orestes gets pwned you are allowed to proceed.
Not sure why but I missed all the final dialogue and the appearance of the Sathanas on that run.

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 22, 2010, 09:00:27 pm

Quote from: General Battuta on November 22, 2010, 08:56:52 pm

Er...you do? The SSLBeam is an invention of the FSPort; there's nothing canonical about it.

Except the damage values, since that was the point.

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Droid803 on November 22, 2010, 09:00:41 pm

Quote from: General Battuta on November 22, 2010, 08:56:52 pm

Er...you do? The SSLBeam is an invention of the FSPort; there's nothing canonical about it.

Well the SSLBeam is designed to have the exact same effectiveness as the original SSL (well, as close as possible given the different nature of the two weapons anyway).

I'd say its a pretty good bet that's what :v: would have done if FS1 had a beam system. After all, they changed the Lucifer's weapons to beams in FS2 even though the SSL was still in the tables.

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: DarthWang on November 22, 2010, 09:04:19 pm

I just remember playing FS1 and the SSLBeam looks a lot closer to the original super laser than the red beams do

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: General Battuta on November 22, 2010, 09:07:17 pm

Right, I'm aware of the design intent behind the SSLBeam, but this is what you've got. I suppose we could add SSLBeams but then they would have to either mysteriously vanish before Fallen Angel or they'd need to be rebalanced, which kind of misses the point.

As matters stand, pending any change, the BP FS1 Lucifer was armed with LReds and HReds.

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: DarthWang on November 22, 2010, 09:12:11 pm

Just edit the beams to be more powerful

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: redsniper on November 22, 2010, 11:13:52 pm

1. Extract the effects for SSL beams
2. Rename them to the effects for LRed and HRed
3. Enjoy Lucifer with SSL beams
4. ?????
5. Come back and complain on HLP when all Shivan destroyers now have SSL-looking beams.

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Qent on November 23, 2010, 12:02:58 am

Red beams are fine. The Lucifer also has beams on its broadside turrets, which is another thing that FSPort didn't do.

It appears that in my copy of the FSPort, the SSLBeam does only 93.5% as much damage per second as an SSL. :P Maybe I need to update....

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: General Battuta on November 23, 2010, 12:04:49 am

Quite so, and thus it will remain barring any decision to the contrary.

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: -Norbert- on November 23, 2010, 03:57:49 am

Quote

1. Extract the effects for SSL beams
2. Rename them to the effects for LRed and HRed
3. Enjoy Lucifer with SSL beams
4. ?????
5. Come back and complain on HLP when all Shivan destroyers now have SSL-looking beams.

Or use the SSL effect only for the HRed. As far as I know the forward turrets of the Lucifer are the only ones in AoA that use the HRed.

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: DarthWang on November 23, 2010, 01:13:17 pm

It should also be mentioned that the Blue Planet techroom includes the Shivan Super laser and describes them differently from normal Shivan beams.

How do you reconcile that, huh? :doubt:

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: The E on November 23, 2010, 01:21:29 pm

We don't.

• SSL: The Lucifer's primary weapon systems were later identified as beam cannons of immense power. Driven by five onboard reactors, these weapons made short work of Allied warships. Tragically, they could also be adapted to fire on planetary targets for hours at a time, a task at which they excelled.
• SRed: Alliance beam cannons were reverse-engineered from scans of the Lucifer. Shivan beam weapons systems continue to outperform them, offering comparable or superior firepower with reduced power drain and heat output. This beam cannon is a cruiser-grade weapons system used for direct-fire engagement of hostile targets. It is a serious but not overwhelming threat to Allied warships. Pilots who see a charging beam should break to avoid its path.
• SAAA: Anti-fighter beams were developed after the Great War, a result of improvements in magnetic bottle technology and low-rise-time capacitors. Why did the Shivans of the Second Incursion suddenly possess this technology? Did they develop it in parallel? Why does Shivan technology display such inconsistent levels of sophistication? These questions remain unanswered. The Shivan anti-fighter weapons system is capable of near-continuous fire at slightly reduced energy levels compared to its GTVA equivalent.
• LRed: The hellishly powerful Shivan destroyer-grade beam system annihilates layers of collapsed molybdenum armor with contemptuous ease. Firing a jet of tightly contained plasma at relativistic velocities, this beam system overmatches any warship in the GTVA arsenal. The heavy beam cannon is integral to Shivan shock-jump tactics, and provides a near-insurmountable advantage in line engagements. It is capable of near-continuous fire, and yet, frighteningly, its power requirements are so low that it can be mounted on modified cruisers. Ships carrying these weapons should be considered priority targets for disarming strikes.
• BFRed: Alliance analysts have no explanation for this weapons system. The Sathanas' main beam cannons discharge kilotons of magnetically confined plasma at .9998 lightspeed. They are capable of continuous fire without overheating. It is unclear where the heat goes, leading GTI analysts to the unsettling conclusion that these weapons are not compatible with thermodynamics as we understand it. It is possible that waste heat is somehow shunted into subspace, or that the Shivans use quantum sleight-of-hand to process the heat out of local space. No allied warship can survive engagement with one of these weapons. Current GTVA tactical doctrine calls for concentrated bomber strikes to destroy these weapons before they can be brought to bear on allied capital ships.

Please point out the part where these descriptions are contradictory.

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: General Battuta on November 23, 2010, 01:40:59 pm

Yep, I don't see a contradiction there. The SSL is simply described as a large beam cannon. The Lucifer may even be able to produce multiple beam types from the same emitter.

We could always reskin the HRed with the SSL effect, or make a mod just for you to take care of it.

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: -Sara- on November 23, 2010, 02:29:43 pm

FS2's red beams, were probably a retcon of the previous orange 'missile trail' beams in the first place, to make them more universal with how the rest of the Shivan armada and it's weaponry looked. So the red beams worked for me.

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Deadly in a Shadow on November 23, 2010, 02:51:00 pm

Red glowing beams, that are the shivans. A yellowish beam would reminder some to the old overpowered super laser. Erm no, the Lucifer-Beam-Retrofit is better.

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: -Norbert- on November 23, 2010, 04:51:55 pm

Apart form fitting in better with the rest of the Shivan color scheme and weapon effects, the red beams are also more destrinct from the Vasudans yellow/orange beams than the color of the original SSL.

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: DarthWang on November 23, 2010, 05:23:00 pm

Quote from: -Sara- on November 23, 2010, 02:29:43 pm

FS2's red beams, were probably a retcon of the previous orange 'missile trail' beams in the first place, to make them more universal with how the rest of the Shivan armada and it's weaponry looked. So the red beams worked for me.

Except they kept the SSL in FS2

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: pecenipicek on November 23, 2010, 05:24:51 pm

i only have one problem with the BFRed description saying it discharges "kilotons" per second. if i remeber some calcs i did a while ago, the number was in the gigaton range.


[edit] the calc was at around 200GT's per full BFRed salvo (4 bfreds fired in their 4-second burst)



as a side note, a rough calc on how much damage a Sathanas could take was around 1.5 teratons to take it down completely...

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: DarthWang on November 23, 2010, 05:35:31 pm

It said kilotons of plasma, aka the amount of plasma weighed thousands of tons, not kilotons as in energy of damage.

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: pecenipicek on November 23, 2010, 05:53:24 pm

oh, rite.


its just that i rarely see any of the kilo/mega/giga/tera-tons in any other usage apart from TNT-equivalent yields :p


(blames his Spacebattles.com VS forum heritage... -.- )

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: -Sara- on November 23, 2010, 05:54:24 pm

Quote from: DarthWang on November 23, 2010, 05:23:00 pm

Quote from: -Sara- on November 23, 2010, 02:29:43 pm

FS2's red beams, were probably a retcon of the previous orange 'missile trail' beams in the first place, to make them more universal with how the rest of the Shivan armada and it's weaponry looked. So the red beams worked for me.

Except they kept the SSL in FS2

For backwards compatibility.

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: DarthWang on November 23, 2010, 05:56:38 pm

LOL I got banned from there years ago

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: General Battuta on November 23, 2010, 05:59:20 pm

Quote from: DarthWang on November 23, 2010, 05:23:00 pm

Quote from: -Sara- on November 23, 2010, 02:29:43 pm

FS2's red beams, were probably a retcon of the previous orange 'missile trail' beams in the first place, to make them more universal with how the rest of the Shivan armada and it's weaponry looked. So the red beams worked for me.

Except they kept the SSL in FS2

Not on the Lucifer. The Lucifer's Super Lasers were replaced with SReds. That's pretty pathetic, and definitely undergunned for a ship of that size and importance.

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: -Sara- on November 23, 2010, 06:58:44 pm

He probably means they left it in the table files. It's becoming a bit of trolling anyway from him. I'm leaving this thread alone now before I get tempted to mod them into lilac beams with cobalt sparkles. :P

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Qent on November 23, 2010, 08:10:18 pm

Quote from: -Sara- on November 23, 2010, 06:58:44 pm

He probably means they left it in the table files. It's becoming a bit of trolling anyway from him. I'm leaving this thread alone now before I get tempted to mod them into lilac beams with cobalt sparkles. :P

Ohh, do want! :D

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Fury on November 23, 2010, 11:31:50 pm

Quote from: DarthWang on November 23, 2010, 05:23:00 pm

Quote from: -Sara- on November 23, 2010, 02:29:43 pm

FS2's red beams, were probably a retcon of the previous orange 'missile trail' beams in the first place, to make them more universal with how the rest of the Shivan armada and it's weaponry looked. So the red beams worked for me.

Except they kept the SSL in FS2

There are several unused weapons in FS1 and FS2 weapons.tbl.

End of topic. :p

Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Darius on November 24, 2010, 12:46:11 am

Yellow SSL beams alongside red shivan beams look weird and will not be implemented.