Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Stormy Fairweather on December 07, 2010, 11:35:11 pm
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So, after just learning of this title I finished the training missions was amazed and impressed enough to (finally) replace my fried video card and buy a joystick. It should be mentioned that I have never owned nor desired a joystick before. Truly, the atmosphere is unlike anything I ever tried before. "Don't touch the controls until you are told to, pilot."
However, in a truly cruel twist of irony, I am absolutely terrible at this game. In the second mission of the first game you have to take out four groups of three ships, and an optional ace. 13 targets, I have three wingmen, and I didn't get more than one of the kills in ten attempts. I once had three assists. My accuracy was usually between 1-3% (yes I aim at the leading circle, just not very well), but my friendly fire accuracy with my missiles is MUCH higher, up to 26% once.
Heh, I can't remember the controls fer nothing either. I been re-opening the key config five or six times an attempt, and I been mucking about with the joystick sensitivity too. Although I can partly blame the joystick thing on the AV8R-03 being too stiff and light, also it has its secondary buttons very poorly placed. And I still don't know what that green 'T' on my hub actuall means. Yeah, orientation, but what does that really mean in this context? He is orientated at the left side of my screen while he is on the right?
Anyway, don't think this is gonna stop me, quite the opposite actually. I just thought it was pretty funny, and I figured there is no point in being embarassing bad at something if someone can't laugh about it.
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The T tells you what direction your target's facing, relative to you. So like, if the T's at the 12 o'clock position, you'd know that he's facing you and probably about to open fire. 6 o'clock means he is facing away from you, and everything in between occupies the rest of the circle. It's best to think of the T as yourself, and to imagine the enemy ship as pointing upwards in the center of your screen.
(this was a personal revelation I made not but weeks ago, lol)
What difficulty are you playing at? Very Easy isn't a shameful difficulty if you're a completely new to this kind of game. Shooting skills take practice, especially since the lead indicator is useless beyond a certain distance if your opponent changes directions a lot. Missiles (at least in FS1) are generally useless unless used against very slow things.
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First off, welcome to HLP! I'd beam you, but that would mean I'd need to find a beam.
;)
Next, I'm going to guess that you're not too familiar with "simulators," though FS is a nice balance of involved sim-type controls with arcade playability... regardless... In that sense, there's a few things you ought to do if you're green. First, you might try turning down the difficulty if need be. Next, just keep at it! FS is a great game with a world of moddability open to it (just browse the forums or look under the "Hosted" tab on the top of this page!). If you can get through the training missions and learn from them (believe me, I've met people who couldn't handle it... and that's pretty sad), and even enjoy them, that's a good sign.
:)
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Turn it down to very easy and just take your time getting the hang of it. It really is worth it, and FreeSpace is pretty userfriendly compared to a real hardcore flight sim.
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I haven't really been having a hard time of yet, my wingmen are picking up my slack just fine. I just don't much like feeling inadequete, and my wingmen are making me feel like Slippy.
I think it is the joystick that is killing me. It is damn tough to use one, I get the feeling I could fire better with the mouse, but to fly without a joystick... especially since I just bought the damn thing for WAY too much money. Any tricks for making a joystick less stiff? It takes more force to move it 1/16" than it does to move after that to the limit.
Edit: One other thing. As excellent as the graphic system is this game appears to be, why is is the ships and weapons are so... jerky when you are looking at thier stats in your ship selection or that information thing? It looks like it is skipping a lot of frames.
Edit two: Nice touch on the 'alot' smily forum guys. Hope ye got one for 'your an idiot'
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I haven't really been having a hard time of yet, my wingmen are picking up my slack just fine. I just don't much like feeling inadequete, and my wingmen are making me feel like Slippy.
I think it is the joystick that is killing me. It is damn tough to use one, I get the feeling I could fire better with the mouse, but to fly without a joystick... especially since I just bought the damn thing for WAY too much money. Any tricks for making a joysetick less stiff? It takes more force to move it 1/16" than it does to move after that to the limit.
Edit: one other thing. As excellent as the graphic system is this game appears to be, why is is the ships a nd weapons are so... jerky when you are looking at thier stats in your ship selection or that information thing? It looks like it is skipping alot of frames.
My solution was to get rid of the joystick and go back to mouse. :) The deadzone drove me nuts, and I wasn't about to shell out the big bucks for a stick good enough to not have one.
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Avi8tr is terrible for Fresspace, the deadzone is far too big. I prefer my mouse ahead of that joystick.
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You could always try playing sans mouse and joystick... aka full keyboard only. ;7
Though I feel like the odd one out being the one who plays with both hands on the keyboard (it is surprisingly precise given practice). One hand on yaw, targeting, firing, and thrust with the other hand controlling pitch, roll, and GSE. It takes less movement for the fingers compared to large hand movements with a joystick but the downside is that very small maneuvers tend to be rapid series of taps rather than a single continuous motion. However, there are a lot more "buttons" at your disposal compared to a regular joystick, useful given the amount of commands that Freespace has.
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Yes, I'm also usually going with keyboard. I tried a couple of joysticks, but for nothing in the world was I able to match my level of precision on keyboard. I hat 30-35% on keyboard, with something like 5-6% on joystick. And since I'm the Tempest kinda guy, not being able to tell the computer precisely where I want to shoot... was pretty annoying. Anyway, practice makes perfect, so you might want to keep trying.
Also, kudos for playing FS1!
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Yup, AV8R sucks, I just tried the next mission with the mouse and wiped out three ships before my wingmen took out one. Gonna have to spane some time setting up the key config, but yeah, that joystick os going back tomorrow. Mebbe later I will get a better one, but for now, I just realised how well the mouse could work.
BTW, I looked at the threads in the modding forums, but I couldn't find a code to make the mouse LIKE a joystick, IE: deadzone, move outside it to move, return to stop. But the only threads I found either A) didn't have a code that I could make work, B) seemed to do much more than what I wanted. I even tried to find a program to emulate this. I had zero luck. It was failing at this that made me go and buy the joystick, but if anyone has a simple script that can do that without screwing up anything, please please please post it here.
As for the keyboard idea... I simply can't. I tried when I was trying to get around the mouse thing, but it just felt too clumsy.
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When I read threads like this, I look at my joystick, then my normal accuracy of nearly 40% (and 65%) with primaries (and secondaries), and wonder how my joystick doesn't suck.
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Because it isn't an AV8R. Seriously man, the moment I took it out of the package I cringed. It was only my inexperience with joysticks that let me even try it for so long.
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I too find my accuracy far higher on the keyboard. I can get 80% or more primary weapon fire accuracy on the keyboard (short, controlled bursts), something I can't match with a joystick.
But it depends..the longer one plays, the better one gets, and I haven't been using the joystick much.
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Using the mouse is working MUCH better, but the whole picking up and smacking down thing is annoying as hell.
With all the amazing work that has been done on this game, and skilled people doing it, someone must have a simple, neat, working script or whatever it would take, to set up your mouse like a joystick (deadzone, etc), but I have found nothing. Oh, I looked, there is one thread with a script that supposedly does this, but it doesn't work. I followed the instructions very carefully and I am certain it was set up correctly. So I assume the code doesn't work, although I think it is for a much older build.
Cookies for codes?
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Because it isn't an AV8R. Seriously man, the moment I took it out of the package I cringed. It was only my inexperience with joysticks that let me even try it for so long.
Yep, the AV8R is certainly one of the more disappointing things Saitek ever made.
Depending on exactly how large the deadzone is, there are things you can do to make it a bit better, though. I myself have removed the centering springs from my old Saitek Cyborg Evo as well as my current Saitek X52, both the stick and rudder twist centering springs. This made both sticks much easier to control around the deadzone, since it removes the mechanical "clankyness" from the (IMHO) poorly implemented centering mechanism.
Of course, modifications like this need to be done carefully so as to not cut any wires or otherwise damage the stick, but this did improve the controllability for me, for both sticks.
As to how not suck with joystick - set deadzone to zero in the game, and sensitivity to maximum. Then, try flying for a while, get a feel to how the ship responds, and if you can't control it, reduce the sensitivity until you find a balanced setting.
The mouse is a different animal altogether. It allows unparalleled precision, but like you have noticed, continuous control inputs don't quite work out.
The key to using the mouse in optimal fashion is to only move it as fast as the ship wants to turn. There is a small delay to the ship's movement as you start turning it, which means if you just yank the mouse to some direction you'll lose some of your precious table room for nothing. And similarly, when you have the ship turning, it only turns so fast. Moving the mouse faster across the surface will not make the ship turn any faster.
You should thus play around a bit, and find out the optimal speed you should move the mouse at. For reference, I can easily turn most ships at least 360 degrees to any direction without lifting the mouse.
You can also combine keyboard and mouse so that you apply continuous control input with keyboard, while controlling the fine precision aiming with the mouse.
Also, the thing that will help you most is practice. Keep at it, Ensign!
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Not an ensign anymore, thank you. I read you saying that exact thing in another thread whist looking for the mouse solution. Except for the part about complimenting mouse with key board... I might have to try that.
As for the stick... I would rather bring it back and try and get a better one later. Thanks for the advice... I am gonna be awsome at this game, eventually. It has everything needed to draw me in until mastered. Can't believe I never of it before.
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I read you saying that exact thing in another thread whist looking for the mouse solution.
A new forum member who reads through old discussions to find solutions to problems? :eek:
How invigorating!
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I agree. And practice is definitely the one thing that'll help you most; although I don't know how you k/m blokes substitute stick and rudder.
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I am mighty proud of myself right now. In the Hammer and the Anvil in Freespace one I just earned the Vasudan Alliance medal for saving all three transports. I also saved the first ship, the andromeda that appeared, but it didn't say anything about that specificlly in the debriefing. Heh, the Adnomeda had 1 hull remaining, one cargo was at 3, another at 14. And I had 8. And that was what we all had for that last two skirmishes. Damn it was brutal. I had 13 kills. And two assists. Simply epic, when I finished that mission I was so relieved there were no more, and when I got that medal, for what may be the first time in YEARS in a videa game, I felt I had EARNED that medal. Sure, it is just an image with a name, but it will always remind me of that day I saved the Andromeda.
As for controls, what I did was set my pitch and roll to my keyboard (W, A, S, D), with pitch and turn to my mouse. Just like a jet in atmosphere I bank and climb to chase a target, while the mouse works to give me precision control. And put accellerate on spacebar. It has been hard to get used to, I keep trying to accellerate with dive, but the control scheme is pretty near perfect I think.
Edit - Sometimes on debris, asteroids and sometimes ships, but usally debris, instead of any kind of shading or lighting large sections simply surn white. Considering how smoothly everything else is running this seems like something that should be easily fixable. I have mipmaps, secular, glowmaps and enviromental maps enabled. 32 bit color, trilinear with 2x anti aliasing and 1x ansotropic filtering. General setting on high.
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Well done. FreeSpace is a game that takes practice, and usually makes you earn your medals, so good on you for persisting.
As for your graphics problem, you should probably post that in this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?board=151.0) forum. The people there will help you out. Give them as much info as possible.
Also, there's this:
Gunnery control, target Stormy Fairweather. Fire the welcome beam.
:welcome:
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Those shaders are awseome.
How exactly does the medal thing work? I have two accomadations and have gotten four others.
Also, welsome beams are no match for sarcasm shields.
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You could always try playing sans mouse and joystick... aka full keyboard only. ;7
Though I feel like the odd one out being the one who plays with both hands on the keyboard (it is surprisingly precise given practice). One hand on yaw, targeting, firing, and thrust with the other hand controlling pitch, roll, and GSE. It takes less movement for the fingers compared to large hand movements with a joystick but the downside is that very small maneuvers tend to be rapid series of taps rather than a single continuous motion. However, there are a lot more "buttons" at your disposal compared to a regular joystick, useful given the amount of commands that Freespace has.
I play keyboard only. It's the only way to fly.
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Those shaders are awseome.
How exactly does the medal thing work? I have two accomadations and have gotten four others.
Also, welsome beams are no match for sarcasm shields.
You get medals for completing bonus objectives. You don't always know what they are form the mission.
But you can see them in the wiki:
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Awardable_Medals
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I play keyboard only. It's the only way to fly.
Get out. Right now.
/me throws several crosswind and short circuit scenarios at Battuta and his keyboard. ;)
Well done. FreeSpace is a game that takes practice, and usually makes you earn your medals, so good on you for persisting.
Yeah, that's what I love about Freespace. The flying may not come too naturally (though it isn't *really* flying), but once you get a feel for the combat and pace at which it takes place, it's even more rewarding.
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Best way to fly is with a full HOTAS setup, nothing beats that. I use a cheapo one but it still served me well for a long time. I wasn't terrible in multi either on the rare occasions I'd play it. Single player posed no problem at all. I can't imagine flying with a keyboard only. I can understand the mouse fliers to a degree, as it does allow you some finer control over the keyboard. But keyboard only? Press the "bank left" key, and it simulates the "stick" being pushed all the way to the left. You can't really make fine adjustments (say simulate the stick being pushed only 1/3 to the left), it's all 100% or nothing.
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I play keyboard only. It's the only way to fly.
Get out. Right now.
/me throws several crosswind and short circuit scenarios at Battuta and his keyboard. ;)
Never had a problem with those in Falcon.
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Best way to fly is with a full HOTAS setup, nothing beats that. I use a cheapo one but it still served me well for a long time. I wasn't terrible in multi either on the rare occasions I'd play it. Single player posed no problem at all. I can't imagine flying with a keyboard only. I can understand the mouse fliers to a degree, as it does allow you some finer control over the keyboard. But keyboard only? Press the "bank left" key, and it simulates the "stick" being pushed all the way to the left. You can't really make fine adjustments (say simulate the stick being pushed only 1/3 to the left), it's all 100% or nothing.
I agree. You lose all sense of tactile connection with the aircraft, you mechanize and destroy what should be a beautiful process with a keyboard! :D Okay, no really, stick and rudder's what I've grown up with, and I don't see enough of an appeal for k/m replacing stick to warrant my active efforts in learning it. I've done alright with keyboard on a few occasions though, but it just felt wrong. :P
Never had a problem with those in Falcon.
I'm going to call your bluff on this one.
I think it's actually impossible for you to fly a perfect short circuit with a keyboard unless you have three hands/keyboards. Unless of course the keyboard or your fingers can tolerate upwards three-four different inputs simultaneously (lookout before turning whilst conducting rejoin checks/prelanding, checking engine torque psi reading to downwind whilst observing downwind position and doing the start of the pre landing checks, or pulling the base to final part of the second turn whilst manipulating views and PCL to maintain perfect descent with runway reference point and checking descent speed to make the threshold at relevant TS as well as lowering flaps to maintain aforementioned, off the top of my head). And a short circuit in a crosswind? Don't get me started. :P
And to think a buzz and break, the kind of pattern entry/landing you're meant to be doing in an F-16 is doing most of that in a few seconds, I'm really beginning to doubt whether it's possible to fly the aircraft perfectly and do all of that when the throttle isn't an axis lever that can be manipulated whilst performing other functions and most of those functions have to be done through tapping keys instead of with both hands concurrent to flying the aircraft when you fly with a keyboard.
Come to think of it, I don't think Falcon actually teaches half of that stuff to you to begin with. :P
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Pointless derail is pointless.
Everyone knows Mouse + KB is the only way to play anyway.
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'bluff' implying i am bluffing
Landing in crosswinds was always a bit of a *****, but since idgaf about doing it right I never had any particular problems. Don't know why you have to bother with all that drama, just point plane at runway, hope there's not an APC on it. If you go into the grass it's cool, you'll probably be fine. You can always eject zero-zero.
I remember playing with a bunch of guys online and they were a) annoyed that my tactics were so effective in dogfights because they were totally unrealistic and b) insisted I could not be playing with a keyboard because I was able to kill them and you need a joystick to get any kills god damn it
Pointless derail is pointless.
Everyone knows Mouse + KB is the only way to play anyway.
mice are for rodents!
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BTW, I looked at the threads in the modding forums, but I couldn't find a code to make the mouse LIKE a joystick, IE: deadzone, move outside it to move, return to stop. But the only threads I found either A) didn't have a code that I could make work, B) seemed to do much more than what I wanted. I even tried to find a program to emulate this. I had zero luck. It was failing at this that made me go and buy the joystick, but if anyone has a simple script that can do that without screwing up anything, please please please post it here.
There are two ways to do this:
1. http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Script_-_Scripted_Mouse
2. PPJoy (fake your system into thinking your mouse is a joystick)
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Pointless derail is pointless.
Yes, it is, so I won't say anymore on the merits of precise flying in an F-16 beyond this post for the thread's sake.
Landing in crosswinds was always a bit of a *****, but since idgaf about doing it right I never had any particular problems. Don't know why you have to bother with all that drama, just point plane at runway,
Oh jeez, you're doing it wrong already, and procedure is there to make sure you don't, you know, break the plane. :P Although plane breakage generally occurs during ejections and collisions with static APCs on airport runways. ;D
I remember playing with a bunch of guys online and they were a) annoyed that my tactics were so effective in dogfights because they were totally unrealistic and b) insisted I could not be playing with a keyboard because I was able to kill them and you need a joystick to get any kills god damn it
I believe it. Dogfighting in the game is only realistic if you play it that way, since it's a video game of course; you're just as capable of devolving dogfights into some kind of simplified FPS where the only objective is to move the pipper over the target. :P
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I believe that all IRL militaries need to adopt my methodologies immediately or face tremendous disadvantages in wars to come.
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Why do you even use the mouse?, I just use the Keyboard most of the time, mouse is kinda slow to reactions.
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I used to use stick, but in more recent years I've gravitated towards a 360 gamepad. May not be for everybody, but I love it. Mouse I use occasionally for maxim sniping, and since we're throwing accuracy stats around here, I typically score around 35-50%.
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Left handed mouse and numpad. Best of both worlds.
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Keyboard cannot possibly beat a good HOTAS in a simulator.
Sure, it and mouse may be more precise, but I don't imagine looking for all these functions and keystrokes.
Also, precision only matters in a gunfight, on longer ranges where missiles are used, ability to manage the radar, scan, lock targets, controll the plane and ECMs simultanously gives a tremendous adventage. That's what a real HOTAS can do, for example CH Fighterstick+CH Pro Throttle, Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar, Logitech G940 or any similar high-end HOTAS system.
On a keyboard, you can do only two of these things at the same time (at least, with default configuration) .
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Really? Never had much of a problem with it meself. Push buttons with two hands, one way or another.
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Yes, but even a basic HOTAS allows you to do at least 3 things at the same time, since you don't push buttons to steer (and mouses I know don't really have enough buttons to fully controll any of the aircraft's systems). And it's difficult to have all fingers on some meaningfull functions on a keyboard, while on CH Pro Throttle it's natural.
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We should have a multi some time, see what happens with different gameplay styles.
I suck anyway so I don't care but I would be up for some multi fun, just to get away from SinglePlayer campaigns.
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Control method would be conflated with pilot skill and connection.
QD said the old SquadWar elites tended to go pure keyboard with occasional mouse, though.
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Because in FS, guns are all that really matters.
IRL (and in Falcon), gun is a backup weapon, most fights are done with missiles.
Then, it's more importaint to be able to operate flight, radar, CM and missile controls as quickly as possible.
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Never had an issue myself. IRL a lot of those controls are handled with keypads and MFDs and stuff.
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They're all on a HOTAS, at least in F-16.
Keypads are good when outside of combat and when you're not pulling over 6G trying to evade the enemy fire, or catch them into your sights.
At 6G, your hand would weight a few kilos, so I think it'd be easier just to move your thumb to reach the CM management switch.
Same with locking and firing missiles, I don't know how I would use radar cursor without HOTAS.
And of course, you can lock targets while evading missiles and dropping flares thanks to HOTAS (at least, my setup and real F-16 are capable of this).
On keyboard, you'd need 4 hands (one for CMS keystrokes, one for flight controls, one for cursor controls and one for target management switch). :)
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I didn't need four hands.
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Don't you know, Battuta uses his feet!
:lol:
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****, discovered
going to have to kill you now
(http://theupproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/chimpattacks.jpg)
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Did you just monkey yourself?
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Did you just monkey yourself?
EXCUSE ME
I expected better than that kind of OVERT RACISM from YOU of all PEOPLE
WE are not MONKEYS we are CHIMPANZEES there is a DIFFERENCE and I don't CARE if we all just look the SAME TO YOU
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Dude, too soon. We didn't blow it all up yet.
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Did you just monkey yourself?
EXCUSE ME
I expected better than that kind of OVERT RACISM from YOU of all PEOPLE
WE are not MONKEYS we are CHIMPANZEES there is a DIFFERENCE and I don't CARE if we all just look the SAME TO YOU
Dude, chill
Have a banana
(http://marenda.biz/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/banana.jpg)
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There are two ways to do this:
1. http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Script_-_Scripted_Mouse
2. PPJoy (fake your system into thinking your mouse is a joystick)
Maybe I am an idiot, but I cannot get this to work. I create a 'config' folder in the data table of the mod I am running (fsport), create the files with the same names as the wiki,put the code in said file and in game I see zero difference. Also, I couldn't find a PPjoy that works on 64 bit windows.
Edit - One other thing, what does it mean when my directives turn red? That they were failed? And while on the subject, what is the difference between grey and white directives?
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Don't you know, Battuta uses his feet!
:lol:
Oh man, this is terrible. :P On the other hand, it's a kind remember that I should use my recently earned money to purchase a pair of rudder pedals.
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One other thing, what does it mean when my directives turn red? That they were failed? And while on the subject, what is the difference between grey and white directives?
White directives are active directives (have yet to be completed or failed). Blue/grey directives are completed ones, and red ones are failed.
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There are two ways to do this:
1. http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Script_-_Scripted_Mouse
2. PPJoy (fake your system into thinking your mouse is a joystick)
Maybe I am an idiot, but I cannot get this to work. I create a 'config' folder in the data table of the mod I am running (fsport), create the files with the same names as the wiki,put the code in said file and in game I see zero difference. Also, I couldn't find a PPjoy that works on 64 bit windows.
Edit - One other thing, what does it mean when my directives turn red? That they were failed? And while on the subject, what is the difference between grey and white directives?
Hello !
This mouse script just work fine for me... I use a joystick, but I wanted to give it a try.
You must not only create the mouse_script.cfg in data/config, but also copy/paste the code above ("table entry") in a file you will call "script_mouse-sct.tbm". Then, put this file into your data/tables directory.
Just tested it in FSPort. Enjoy !
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Ah haha ha ha ha.
I spent so much damn time trying to get that to work, and after trying it I find I prefer the keyboard/mouse combination I had set up. I had been putting both files into the config folder, or tables, hadn't been putting them into seperate folders. Thanks a lot for the explaination anyway.
Red are failed objectives? I had kinda figured that, but if the 'objective' is not a mission one, like taking out a squadron of fighters during an assualt on a cruiser, does it matter? Does failing objectives that are not even secondary hurt you in any way?
PS - Geez guys, I am running out of questions.
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I would just like to thank GB, The E and Spoon for bits of this thread. It's been a bugger of a day and this was just what I needed.
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They're directives, not objectives. Objectives are quite different, and are essential for the mission. Directives are there just to help you get an idea of what you should be doing at the current moment, and may or may not be crucial to the mission outcome.
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although objectives do usually appear in the directives list. for objectives, usually primary are required to pass the mission, but there are more than a few with impossible primaries due to the narrative that don't hold you back. secondarys and bonus are not required to pass.
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Thanks for the info, that clears up a fair amount of confusion.
Although it did create two new questions, is there any point to doing all secondaries aside from a medal collection? And when you complete a mission and there are recomendations, are the recomendations in relation to secondary objectives you missed? Usually after a mission with recomendations I go back, follow the advice and complete extra objectives, but in Shell Game it recomended I watch one of the ships to see what the enemy is doing, but I killed all ships and don't really see what more I could have done. The wiki had little on it, and nothing at all about secondaries. It gives you a walkthrough, but I am unclear as to whether it hits any/all secondaries. Took me about twenty tries to nail each one of tose transports and frieghters, and I would really hate to think I still missed one.
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Actually there really is no point to most secondaries aside from medal collection and kill count.
I usually just ignore the ones that are too hard.
That being said though, there is an amazing sense of accomplishment when get all the medals...
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i don't think i've ever missed a secondary objective. rarely miss a bonus either. but then again, i play on easy mostly :P
i'm not sure i would go BACK to get a secondary, but there's really no point in NOT going for it, since i can't think of a time when doing so would cost you anything.
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There's that one mission where you start off fighting Pegasi and later have to kill the Moloch and/or keep the Hecate above 50% hull (can't remember exactly). It actually gets pretty hard on lower difficulties because the Hecates beams don't do enough to kill the Moloch.
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was that a secondary objective? yeah, i only ever killed that thing the first time playing through. i think the hecate got a lucky shot off that disabled it so it stayed in the field of fire for the primary beam long enough to die. one time i time compressed and let it have it after the hecate jumped with primaries and tempests. spent a good 10 minutes only to discover the lovely little cap flag. :doubt: :mad: (DIE cap flag!)
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You can still kill it with EMP missiles! (Or at least you could in 3.6.9, did that on co-op with Rian.)
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I don't use EMP missiles, though now I realize that the huge tag could come in handy.
I'm almost always Perseus, double PromS, harpoon/tempest for that mission.
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It doesn't have a huge tag.
Its something to do with Shockwaves bypassing that damage reduction thing, IIRC.
But yeah, its a pretty big :v: flub. If you disable the Tiamat, then you can't finish the mission (since it requires it to either be destroyed or departed)...
Actually, I don't think :v: ever considered the possibility of that happening seeing as someone Saved CapellaTM that way.
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It doesn't have a huge tag.
Its something to do with Shockwaves bypassing that damage reduction thing, IIRC.
But yeah, its a pretty big :v: flub. If you disable the Tiamat, then you can't finish the mission (since it requires it to either be destroyed or departed)...
Actually, I don't think :v: ever considered the possibility of that happening seeing as someone Saved CapellaTM that way.
i don't think it held me back for jumping out with it still alive. it's been a long time since that though.
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Well, there's an incomplete directive, and command doesn't tell you to go back to base.
Therefore, I didn't try it cause command is known for executing people for simply assuming its ok.
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As a fellow n00b, I just wanted to post and let Stormy Fairweather know that I felt his pain. I play with a stick, and boy did I suck a few weeks ago. Now I'm calmly dodging missiles with afterburners and chaff, switching secondaries depending on my target and its range, constantly adjusting my ETS depending on the situation, and smoking a lot of Shivans in the process. Still have a long ways to go, but I'm getting a lot better and the immersion of playing with a stick is worth it to me.
I do have one question. I'm currently playing through FS2 on hard and I'm pretty early on (about to do the mission where you first enter a nebula). I'm beating the missions but enjoying the difficulty, and I'm racking up kills but I find that on this difficulty my wingmen are getting SMOKED by the AI (last 2 missions they've all died by the time I finished). Is there something I'm doing wrong or is this normal for Hard difficulty?
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That's pretty normal for Hard, if you don't give your wingmen fairly regular commands. Focus fire does wonders to keep your fleetz alive. Otherwise, you'll find that everyone tends to go off on 1v1's, leaving your wingmen to be haplessly chased around until they're dead.
Oh, and wingmen are generally too stupid to realize that charging without any coordination into AAA/flak to dogfight other fighters is a bad idea. Another reason you need to manage them.
Also, keep at the ETS transfer. It makes you fly much more efficiently if you're not wasting any of it on things that don't atm need recharging. Even if the benefits of micromanaging ETS is negligible, it still makes you feel much more badass, sorta like how racing in standard instead of automatic feels.
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FS AI is known for being pathetic in combat and since you're often outnumbered, they die.
Nothing to worry about if you're good, just don't get too attached to them. :)
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They all share the same handful of voice actors/head anis, so it's okay even if you do get attached to them :)
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Thanks for the advice. I'll work on the wingmen commands. Is there any way to set up a macro or something so hitting a key automatically tells, for example, Beta wing to attack my target without having to navigate the communications menu (a little annoying when I'm in the middle of a dogfight). I know you can assign "attack my target" to a key, but then you still need to specify the ship/wing after, which really makes it no more efficient than the standard communications menu.
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It's easy to memorize the keypress sequence for commands.
C-3-9 for all engage.
C-3-1 for all attack one target.
C-2-<Wing>-1 for <Wing> to attack target.
C-3-5 for all guard one target.
Etc., etc.
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It's easy to memorize the keypress sequence for commands.
C-3-9 for all engage.
C-3-1 for all attack one target.
C-2-<Wing>-1 for <Wing> to attack target.
C-3-5 for all guard one target.
Etc., etc.
Yeah I've memorized them, but that's still 3 or 4 button presses rather than 1. Any FSO support for macros?
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That sounds like something that having an external numberpad would be great for, the only question then is hardware support. And the latter is a matter for which FS could use some improvement.
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It's easy to memorize the keypress sequence for commands.
C-3-9 for all engage.
C-3-1 for all attack one target.
C-2-<Wing>-1 for <Wing> to attack target.
C-3-5 for all guard one target.
Etc., etc.
Yeah I've memorized them, but that's still 3 or 4 button presses rather than 1. Any FSO support for macros?
In the OEM version that I owned many many years ago, I think some of the function keys were bound to be "Attack my target", "Guard my target", or some of the more useful commands. Then again, the OEM version had tiny shrilling bb's as its beams if they were mounted on fighters (via cheats). Meant that aiming BFreds was a lot easier, since they were kinda like mini morning stars, and less like "omg can't see through beam". (MX-52 also fired in 24 missile swarms or something stupid, and that was single salvo)
Assuming the same functionality (for commands) was in retail at all, it should be in FSO as well. Did you look around the commands binding options?
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Then again, the OEM version had tiny shrilling bb's as its beams if they were mounted on fighters (via cheats). Meant that aiming BFreds was a lot easier, since they were kinda like mini morning stars, and less like "omg can't see through beam".
I'm pretty sure Retail also had that. I may be wrong, though.
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However, in a truly cruel twist of irony, I am absolutely terrible at this game. In the second mission of the first game you have to take out four groups of three ships, and an optional ace. 13 targets, I have three wingmen, and I didn't get more than one of the kills in ten attempts. I once had three assists. My accuracy was usually between 1-3% (yes I aim at the leading circle, just not very well), but my friendly fire accuracy with my missiles is MUCH higher, up to 26% once.
Playing the game with a joystick definitely increases the difficulty. Adjusting the sensitivity and the dead zone is only the small start of a long journey. The more you play the game with a joystick (whether be normal flight yoke or gamepad joystick), the better you'll get, but it'll take some time.
I started to play the game 9 years ago with a gamepad. After a month or two of playing the game off and on with a gamepad, i was sort of amazed that i was no longer having trouble going after shivans keeping my cross hairs pretty good on the leading aim circle and became an ace. Years of going in and out of gamepads, the best i can fall back on is mouse and keyboard (since i always have them). Now i lost all of my experience with playing the game with a joystick that i need to relearn from the start, because i can't fly for nothing with one right now. Don't stop using the joystick, and i need to start playing this game for real like you are.
It's easy to memorize the keypress sequence for commands.
C-3-9 for all engage.
C-3-1 for all attack one target.
C-2-<Wing>-1 for <Wing> to attack target.
C-3-5 for all guard one target.
Etc., etc.
Dont forget c-3-7 for all to form up on you. c-2-<wing>-7 for a specified wing to form up on you.
Thanks for the advice. I'll work on the wingmen commands. Is there any way to set up a macro or something so hitting a key automatically tells, for example, Beta wing to attack my target without having to navigate the communications menu (a little annoying when I'm in the middle of a dogfight). I know you can assign "attack my target" to a key, but then you still need to specify the ship/wing after, which really makes it no more efficient than the standard communications menu.
c-2-<wing> commands are my new favorite. c-2-<beta wing>-9, c-2-<alpha wing>-7, c-2-<gamma wing>-5....blablabla (just an example) prioritize your mission objectives and wings under your command. A1 was never meant to do all of it, lets what can be rather stupid AI wing mates not fly around aimlessly like they can do at times (they can actually be quite handy), can get missions over with faster or just a lot cleaner, and more of your dudes can survive at the end of the mission with well done c-2-<wing> commands because all dudes under your command are doing something useful. Check out more c-2-<wing commands> when you have some time.
3 weeks ago i realized my usage of c-3 commands was a little high and is very sloppy wing management. Now when i play and lose significant portion of wings under my command, i feel bad because it was mostly my fault (new motivator for replaying a mission) for their demise (i like them surviving, and they're more handy when they are alive). I highly recommend checking out c-2-<wing> commands, because a lot of players (including myself except 3 weeks ago) and especially newbies use mostly c-3 commands all of the time and it makes the game less fun.
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I've always been using c-2 commands, but I don't think I'm really good with them, though they are very useful for intercept missions.
I manage to keep most of my wingmen alive on all except the hardest of missions. Then again... I play on normal, so difficulty is probably another reason I don't do too bad. :lol:
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A good mission to play where you can practice ordering your wings around individually is the mission where you're hunting shivan gas miners. That mission wasn't particularly hard, but it was easy to experiment with c-2 commands.
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Yeah that mission was fun... until my wingmen destroyed a gas miner and blew up in my face :p
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I usually have them formed up on my wing for that mission. I'll find a gas miner, order them to destroy it while i take out the sentry lasers (short moments on that mission where they aren't formed up with me). If any enemies found, we attack them all together.
This makes the mission a cake walk.