Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: bobbtmann on December 12, 2010, 02:03:35 pm
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Just taking a break from Star Wars.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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ohdear :nervous:
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:jaw:
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redacted, not sure what i can say
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REDACTED
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Stop it.
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looks ok to me but it does have a dead dino look
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I think it looks great. Front claws need work, and it could do with a little more surface detail, but that depends on what the textures will do. Just a caution since you spend a fair bit of intimate time scanning/bombing this thing, and it's easy to find yourself looking at a great slab with no detail.
(*Not sure if Redactutta and sniper were praising or offering harsh criticism)
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Neither.
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I don't like this too much, possibly because i've seen this:
http://councilor.deviantart.com/art/Shivan-Juggernaut-showcase-99775231?q=boost%3Apopular+sathanas&qo=20
http://councilor.deviantart.com/art/Shivan-Juggernaut-Comparison-99946413?q=boost%3Apopular+sathanas&qo=30
http://councilor.deviantart.com/art/Crashed-Shivan-Juggernaut-100409488?q=boost%3Apopular+sathanas&qo=36 :lol:
I can't describe how, but it jsut looks better to me.
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I like this guy a lot... it feels really aggressive, old-school and chunky, like the original model. Excellent job on keeping the feel of the the original model, and not slaving yourself to the geometry. However I'm not sure if it would hold up at the huge scale the Sathanas actually is in-game.
also you should PM RGA Norris ASAP
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I like this one (in OP) more. The deviantart one was widely criticized from a long time ago since it's twice as big as the retail Sathanas, and because it has weird muscle/tooth structures going on.
The deviantart one also looks better because it's textured.
Suggestions for front claws:
Need engine thrusters. This is pretty much a must.
Consider working in some sort of greeble into the claw area. Or, do something to up the detail/interest of the huge red spikes.
Consider a way to make the actual beam turrets (the tips) look separate yet linked to the rest of the arm. When you kill a turret, it should visually make sense why the part that exploded did.
Consider a way to subtly suggest that the arms can pivot, as per the Supernova cutscene. Never mind, saw the joints in the arms.
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This is simply amazing.
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also you should PM RGA Norris ASAP
Yes, that. What I wanted to say.
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I don't like this too much, possibly because i've seen this:
http://councilor.deviantart.com/art/Shivan-Juggernaut-showcase-99775231?q=boost%3Apopular+sathanas&qo=20
http://councilor.deviantart.com/art/Shivan-Juggernaut-Comparison-99946413?q=boost%3Apopular+sathanas&qo=30
http://councilor.deviantart.com/art/Crashed-Shivan-Juggernaut-100409488?q=boost%3Apopular+sathanas&qo=36 :lol:
I can't describe how, but it jsut looks better to me.
Maybe because that one got awesome textures? But that Sathanas differs too much from the retail one.
I like this one better - but it surely isn't finished so just wait for him to reply.
Great work there, dude :pimp:
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wow, a nice design!
I feel those open spaces left by the scales will give the player a place to hide while shooting at the target though, you might want to fill those gaps with some mesh.
Keep on going please :D
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I feel those open spaces left by the scales will give the player a place to hide while shooting at the target though, you might want to fill those gaps with some mesh.
Yeah, cracks in ships tend to be bad, but I don't think he can fill them in much without ruining the look. Depending on how bad it is, we could tough it just like we toughed the neck of the Colossus.
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I think the biggest + of the dev art one was that the plane in which the spikes begin wasn't angled.
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The OP's first picture exaggerates the plane you're talking about. The Sathanas is tilted a fair bit backwards in that picture. Besides, irregularity looks good on shivans.
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Now that you made me turn my head, yeah, it looks well :lol:
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Looks...demonic.
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I like it a lot. The original has always reminded me of a giant space flea. This looks very frightening.
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What I like best is that it isn't just a greebled low-poly model, it's a fully enhanced model made with high polycounts in mind.
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Looks...demonic.
...Sathanic. :yes: :yes: :yes:
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Only thing I don't like would be the pod thingys where the beams are mounted. There's barely any detail added. Are those parts (as well as the beams themselves tbh) still WIP?
Other than that... Well, I always imagined the carapace much smoother, not segmented. What you've got there actually looks a lot like one of those creepy larval stages of a small bug. It's possible I'm just spoiled by Councilor's model, but something like that would look much more Shivan IMO.
What's the polycount?
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Oooh, nice. Interesting way to go with the Sath. I like how dangerous it looks. Shiva incarnate.
Looks like we're going to have a battle of the [REDACTED] soon...
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This model is very nice. However, it's a little bit... how can I say ? Round ? A little much angular will be better I think. But, as it's a non-textured model, the final result may differ. :yes: And it's veeery nice, as already said, and as a non-talented modeler, I will just :snipe:
And for the Deviant Art model by *Councilor
...I'm not willing to give the hi-poly version to anyone without a price...
Citation from here (http://comments.deviantart.com/1/99775231/1764199270)
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It's all a WIP. Right now it's a bunch of pieces with the turbosmooth modifier applied. After I'm satisfied with the overall shape, I collapse the stack and add creases and make it much more angular. I also get rid of excess geometry. But right now I'm trying to get the shape right.
I do like some elements to Councilor's model. The floating wires are neat, and I might consider something like that on the underside. I recognize his use of the concept art as a reference. It was that concept drawin in the credits that inspired me to make this model. Unfortunately, I feel he's kept the poorly proportioned bits from the concept, and kept the static-ness of the game model.
Has RGA Norris started a Sathanas model as well?
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Holycrapholycrapholycrapholycrap.
I want.
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I don't think Rga is doing a model of this. People want you to PM him because he has been really good at converting models to .pof.
You can add wires to the bottom, but remember that they'll be dozens of meters in diameter, which is kinda weird. They will also add extra nooks and crannies for AI to get stuck in and players to abuse. Then again, you seem to be able to make the model work so far, so we trust in you.
Could we get a straight shot of the underside? Right now, nobody knows what it looks like.
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Please PM RgaNoris.
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Can't wait to DIVE! DIVE! DIVE! while that's coming towards me. Looks a lot scarier and... alive. I dunno. The curves really make it look evil and almost living to me. Which is a good thing. Keep going.
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[Insert all variations of rawr here]
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I dunno about you guys, but my first thought when I saw the images was essentially "this looks a lot more insect-like than any Shivan thing I've ever seen" ... and I always thought of Shivans as just being really badass bio-mechanical spiders, so I'm down with that. (cue the flames directed at me)
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When I was little, the Mara looked like a beetle to me, so I can sort of see where you're coming from. I don't think the look detracts from its Shivan feel though.
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I appreciate everyone who is in the know trying to keep things under wrap, but I have no intention of asking him to stop his project nor do I have any intention to stop mine.
That being said, yes, I am making a Sath. It is quite close to release, and was going to be a surprise. It is about 50% UV'ed and when that's done it will be shipped off to c914 (of Cain fame) for texturing, as his work on the Cain/Lilith have been some of the best Shivan textures to date.
That being said, I hope you continue on your project. It will give the community a choice much in the way there is a choice for the Orion and Leviathan (see: Galemps armored beast).
So here are some older WIPs of my model. Note that word: OLDER.
(http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af118/RgaNoris/RC_Sath_04.png)
(http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af118/RgaNoris/RC_Sath_03.png)
(http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af118/RgaNoris/RC_Sath_02.png)
(http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af118/RgaNoris/RC_Sath_01.png)
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsjWha5skM4
I will not make this into a contest. I like his model and I think the community does too. I intend to finish mine in the coming months, and allow the community to use which ever one they want. bobbtmann, if you need any help let me know.
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Further bricks were just shat.
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brb need new pants
In all seriousness, the only thing I don't like is the panelling on the front. That looks kind of out of place, and I'm not sure what kind of texturing details would improve it.
The carapace, and engine assembly are made of pure FRAK YEAH.
The giant space flea has just increased several orders of magnitude in epic awesome pwnage.
[EDIT] Let it be said that this model makes Rga_Noris more badass than Chuck Norris
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Beef up that neck!
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I'm... not sure which I like better. Bob's overall has a nicer shape to it (though the mesh itself needs to be a bit more mechanical in appearance while retaining a smooth look).
As for RGA's, some parts really bug me, like the pipe neck. The fighterbay doesn't really look so much like a fighterbay, and I think the detail used on it is repeated a bit too much on the model.
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Cool spidersath. :yes:
Neck and face feels off but looks fine either way.
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keep in mind that at that scale, the figtherbay will be pretty huge. Each of those launch tubes- at least I think that's what they are- would easily fit a Seraphim and possibly a cruiser.
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keep in mind that at that scale, the figtherbay will be pretty huge. Each of those launch tubes- at least I think that's what they are- would easily fit a Seraphim and possibly a cruiser.
It's not the tubes in general, I think something like that is a swell idea, it's something about the fighterbay. May just be that it's somewhat small and hardish to see this zoomed out, in any case.
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Holy ****... :jaw:
They're both amazing, I look at the title and WHAM, not one but TWO separate models of the Sathanas on the same thread. Outstanding work both of you!
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The front of that Sathanas looks like something straight out of Aperture Science. (We do what we must, because, we can)
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I know! I know! We can have one be the model of a male Sath and one of a female Sath.
Now let's take votes on which one's which!
...uh nevermind.
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I know! I know! We can have one be the model of a male Sath and one of a female Sath.
Now let's take votes on which one's which!
...uh nevermind.
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/ImageMacros/1292181860322.jpg)
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*drools* i want rga's as my tourbus!
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:eek2:
To both.
Holy crap.
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...we now have two more public Sathanas projects than we did yesterday.
Like...wow. :eek2:
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Is anyone else not going to move the next time they play Into The Lion's Den when this is out?
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Is anyone else not going to move the next time they play Into The Lion's Den when this is out?
only if a pair of tits are added to the front
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Gives new meaning to when Snipes tells you that you need to wait to change your shorts.
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Is anyone else not going to move the next time they play Into The Lion's Den when this is out?
only if a pair of tits are added to the front
But what if that Sathanas was Mr. Cuddles all along but the SOC just doesn't know then?
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Is anyone else not going to move the next time they play Into The Lion's Den when this is out?
only if a pair of tits are added to the front
But what if that Sathanas was Mr. Cuddles all along but the SOC just doesn't know then?
well he still better have a pair of tits
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Thanks for the kind words! And of course, the critique.
For those that were in the Private Forum and saw this a few months back, ya'll know its gone through some serious changes, restarts, etc.
While I like the feedback and have applied some of the already mentioned concerns, the model will remain, by and large, unchanged.
I am no old timer with a lot of advice to give, but to anyone tackling an HTL project, all input must come SECONDARY to what you deem as a satisfying model. If you chase the input and dreams of others, you will never satisfy yourself. Example: At one point, the arms looked completely different, and were based off the sole ideas of others. The problem was that I had followed the input of others. No one really said 'wow' and I had no idea how to complete it because I had no idea what 'complete' even was. It was not my idea.
Then I went with my idea, and posted that. And people said 'wow' about the arms. Now I post it here and some say they don't care for them. Oh well. I like them, and I don't feel I sacrificed any standard to create them. They continue the stylings of the Ravana (really... go look) and I love them.
Case in point: People told c914 to remove the tear drop style missile launchers off the Cain. It "really bug(ged)" some people. I doubt anyone would challenge its beauty today as they see it, and the Lilith, tear up Terran Cruisers.
The point I'm trying to make is that in a community full of developers, you will likely never please everyone. Everyone here knows what they want the Sath to look like. But only two are actually doing it. To each their own.
EDIT: I will, however, add a giant pair of tits to the front.
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Those tits better be blocking the forward flak, so that my bombing runs are easier.
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no, those tits will be the forward flak, amirite guys
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I honestly much prefer Bobb's shell carapace, as it seems like a much more free, stylistic interpretation of the low-poly Sathanas's design intent while RGA's appears more like a greebled version of the original geometry. Any chance of a fusion of sorts?
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I like bob's shell, but i prefer Rga's head/main turrets.
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I prefer Rga's all around. Bob's seems almost TOO organic.
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RGA's is just incredible. Sorry Bob, yours is good too, but it's just... wow.
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I think the main thing about RGA's is it's been worked on longer, thus has more detail, thus is more leet. Honestly though, if Bob saw his model out to completion, I would still probably prefer Rga's take on the giant space flea.
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The only thing I don't like about Rga's Sathanas is the head itself, it's not like the original shape (It's close, except the top has a gap where normally it does not), and unfortunately Bob's Sathanas doesn't have a front view so I can't tell if the head is like the original or significantly different as well. Otherwise, I love the beam cannon arms on Rga's, they look fierce.
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Having calmed down after looking at these models, I have 2 questions (for both modellers I guess).
1 - Are the changes to the faces of the Saths oing to affect DIVE DIVE DIVE in any way?
2 - Are there any plans to split the arms up into subobjects so that they can be animated to flex ala the final cutscene... is this even possible with turrets on the end of them?
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2 - Are there any plans to split the arms up into subobjects so that they can be animated to flex ala the final cutscene... is this even possible with turrets on the end of them?
Well, if it isn't possible, maybe have the flexing-arms Sathanas as a seperate ship/model?
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2 - Are there any plans to split the arms up into subobjects so that they can be animated to flex ala the final cutscene... is this even possible with turrets on the end of them?
Well, if it isn't possible, maybe have the flexing-arms Sathanas as a seperate ship/model?
It is possible and might help mjn.mixael for the final cut scenes
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I like how this thread has four pages of suggestions and comparing to other work, when poor bob hasn't really had much of a chance to prove what his own concept is going to be yet. All we have seen is a very early piece of clay that he hasn't had a chance to sculpt. I say let the man work, then judge... :doubt:
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Just about every aspect of the Sath needs to be close to retail in terms of placement for retail compatibility. Consider what moving a things just a little could do: In the mission where the player scans te Sath, the player could now have to travel much farther to complete the scan, throwing off mission balance. Arms a little different? Could equate to extra or less time to lock on during Bear Baiting. Sath too long? Good luck getting past Dive! Dive! Dive! Better hope the fighter bay has not been moved to allow fighter to swarm you quicker.
Bear in mind that what appears to be a minor change on the model could be 1000m in game with a ship this size. And yes, I plan on a Sat with articulating arms, but will be a separate version later.
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That being said, yes, I am making a Sath. It is quite close to release, and was going to be a surprise. It is about 50% UV'ed and when that's done it will be shipped off to c914 (of Cain fame) for texturing, as his work on the Cain/Lilith have been some of the best Shivan textures to date.
Now I know why Battuta posted that reply on Facebook. Fortunately, I didn't link to this thread.
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I like some parts of Rga's version and others from Bob's one, not sure if it's required for us to "choose" a better option really.
I'm just glad someone is finally looking at that ugly old sath and wanting to do something about it.
My thanks to both of you.
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I like bob's one more, because it IS organic. I have to, however, admit, that both of them are at least awesome... But I also find annoying that no one gives a **** about |V| concept. Concepts, in fact.
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Someone did use the concept in a way for most of it, and TrashMan made the concept Colossus, Inferno uses most concept drawings for their ships.
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Actually the original arms I made were ripped from the concept, but overall did not look fierce or really even feasable. Also the original Sath model leaves very few clues as to what V would have done given an extended poly budget, so all we are left with is our imaginations and, of course, the opinions of others.
Bob went organo-Shivan, I went Mechano/Crustacean/Tits-Shivan.
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Actually the original arms I made were ripped from the concept, but overall did not look fierce or really even feasable. Also the original Sath model leaves very few clues as to what V would have done given an extended poly budget, so all we are left with is our imaginations and, of course, the opinions of others.
Bob went organo-Shivan, I went Mechano/Crustacean/Tits-Shivan.
I agree. The concept art is just that. An idea for a future model. When V got around to making the actual Sath, they made changes based on how the shapes worked in the round. Concept sketches are only a starting point. I think the Sath improved a great deal from the drawing to the in-game model.
The hangar bays can afford to be reduced in size.
I hope this doesn't turn into some sort of competition between our seperate Saths. I already feel bad blundering in and ruining the suprise.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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My vote's on bobbtmann's. :)
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I would like to see both completed. Though texturing will be the big issue on bobbt's, I imagine.
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My vote's on bobbtmann's. :)
C'mon. Cut it out.
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I like both versions. RGA's version has better details, Bob's - shape. Keep up good work! :) :yes:
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This is no rivalry. I like them both very much! (but it's a shame for the surprise - but there are other surprises waiting out there :) )
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Does it come with that Dreadnought? ;7
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I would like to see both completed.
I agree with this. No matter which one gets chosen for the MVPs, at least mod creators will have different flavours of Sathani to choose from depending on what feel they want their missions/campaigns to have. Both are excellent models!
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Bob's almost looks like a baby Sathanas, in the way an Ultralisk looks like a baby Omegalisk.
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Bob's almost looks like a baby Sathanas, in the way an Ultralisk looks like a baby Omegalisk.
... The Ultralisk and Omegalisk use the same model, but at different scales.
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Concept arts. They're different in those.
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I thought there was only one Sathanas in the works. :nervous:
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Concept arts of the ultralisks/omegalisks.
...and now, back to our Feature Presentation. Any more screenshots from either model that the creators are willing to share at this point?
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I for one, welcome our two Sath overlords.
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I for one, welcome our two Sath overlords.
I second that.
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That's amazing! Great work, bobbtmann!
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That's amazing! Great work, bobbtmann!
Given that RGA's is much closer to completion I expect we'll see it in the MVPs first. I still want to see them both finished.
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I just saw the screenshots of bob's Sath on the previous page. I really like the way that the top and bottom halves of the body really seem to mesh well. It feels like one piece, rather than a shell thrown over a core, which is the impression I get from the retail model. Basically, I commend the good use of the volume and shape.
(It's starting to look a little like (http://luna.fobby.net/lavosa1.gif), but I don't mind.)
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Ouh, I would love to see a Chrono Trigger Mod for Freespace :D
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Lord knows how that would work. :p
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They should both go in the game. Totally unfeasible, but I think it would be neat if the 1st Sathanas (Killed by collie) is one model, and the second Sathanas (Kills Psamtik) is the other, and after that, they are random. Though that's just my lousy idea.
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Meh, they should be both RELEASED, and you can overdrive the MVPs one if you don't like it. I do that with the hatshepsut because the newest is too much for my graphic card. The only way i can see them "both in the game" is if we made advanced installer that would have choices of various models so you can build your own mediaVPs, or at least the model set. But i'm no java guru so ount me out on that action :P
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Modding FSO is too plain easy for people to need that feature. And agreed on the completion and release of both versions.
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They should both go in the game. Totally unfeasible, but I think it would be neat if the 1st Sathanas (Killed by collie) is one model, and the second Sathanas (Kills Psamtik) is the other, and after that, they are random. Though that's just my lousy idea.
THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!
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They should both go in the game. Totally unfeasible, but I think it would be neat if the 1st Sathanas (Killed by collie) is one model, and the second Sathanas (Kills Psamtik) is the other, and after that, they are random. Though that's just my lousy idea.
THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!
Agreed. Wanna that! :)
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We could also use one as the SJD Sathanas. :nervous:
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We could also use one as the SJD Sathanas. :nervous:
um no
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I have an idea -- The more organic version should be the standard version, while the up-armored, shell-like version should be the one facing the Colossus.
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The MVPs should pick one and stick with it. Part of why the Sathanas is scary is because there are so many identical ones, which suggests its ease of manufacture and expendability.
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This thread ought to be split; it's not fair to Bob.
RGA's Sathanas certainly looks very cool, but it differs from the original a little too much for my liking.
As Commander Zane mentioned, RGA's model has a gap between where the upper arms connect to the head, which differs from the retail model. It is most noticeable in RGA's third screenshot, and it makes the ship look 'weaker'. Also, I do not feel that the rounded, 'floating' armour plates fit with the Shivan aesthetic.
The posterior of RGA's ship looks perfect...
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RGA's model is almost done with mapping and has a texturer lined up. I think those practical considerations are going to be fairly important.
I really want to see bob's finished as well.
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If anything, at least my Sath has a nice ass.
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If anything, at least my Sath has a nice ass.
all the better for a sobek to stick a beam cannon up while the player scans ;)
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I think Bob's looks more natural and true to the original. RGA's version seems more like the Shivans' answer to the Colossus, disregarding that they probably have hundreds. You know, like, this is their masterpiece; an upgraded Sathanas.
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A Sathanas-2? :P
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If anything, at least my Sath has a nice ass.
Oh, nonono. I will not answer to this with the proper picture. Nonononono :D
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A Sathanas-2? :P
Sathatwo: Beelzebub!
Coming soon to a theater near you!
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This thread ought to be split; it's not fair to Bob.
RGA's Sathanas certainly looks very cool, but it differs from the original a little too much for my liking.
Seconded. Two threads for two models.
Also, Bob's could use some more detail on the front, but the back looks more Shivam imo.
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If anything, at least my Sath has a nice ass.
Oh, nonono. I will not answer to this with the proper picture. Nonononono :D
*Whistles* That Sathanas has a nice ass!
(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/2038/sathanassfrillies.jpg)
(Thank you imageshack)
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*Whistles* That Sathanas has a nice ass!
(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/2038/sathanassfrillies.jpg)
(http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/129209619067142367.jpg)
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I like big engine nacelles and I cannot lie
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Yeah.. big is big. That engine port is like the size of a volcano.
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DAT ASS.
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*SathanAss
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*SathanAss
That's what I titled the image to begin with XD