Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace & FreeSpace Open Support => Topic started by: jjmounes on December 20, 2010, 01:21:48 pm
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Before I post my issue I am going to put up some preventative messages
-I know GMA 950 and 1.6ghz Atom is paltry and not for gaming. Why the **** do you think I am playing games from the 90's? Telling me my computer can't handle your awesome mod or that I should "just buy a new one" is ****ing stupid, because I am trying to get games working on a netbook, not my desktop.
-Freespace 2 looks and seems awesome, and the original campaign runs buttery-smooth so far. It seems to be a pefect netbook game.
-Do not tell me to update drivers, I am no idiot.
-Do not tell me to scan for viruses. Are you kidding?
-Do not ask me to reinstall the game. Been there.
-Windows 7, GMA 950, Atom 1.6
Anyway I have seen one post on the GoG forum about this same specific issue. The game crashes to desktop the first time a "capitol ship?" torches the intruder (the bel-something). I am using FSO- it's great how easy this community has made installing it with the convenient .exe.
What settings should I start with. Obviously compatability modes, resolutions, and color depths have already been tweaked. I am using standard up-to-date intel drivers.
I am sorry but searching your forum only finds a seething mass of "I ****ed with (modded) the game, now it's not working and/or I don't know how to install drivers" type issues. We need a solution to this issue. If I remember right, it carries to win XP. I know there are people who play this game on this computer just fine, there are "working" reports left and right. We need to solve this issue.
fs2_open.log is not present in my /data folder.
I am launching using fs2_open_3_6_5.exe
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I would first like to ask you to calm down, and read the big fat thread marked "READ BEFORE POSTING" found here: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=56279.0
While I doubt that there's a solution to your specific problem there, it will tell you how to generate an fs2_open.log, which is what we'll need in order to help you.
Now, believe it or not, but this is the first report of that specific combination of Hardware and OS making trouble I've seen. So please provide the fs2_open.log so that we can get this started.
I am launching using fs2_open_3_6_5.exe
wat.
Okay. You are using an executable that is what? 6 or 7 years out of date? Where did you get it? I mean, we are at 3.6.12 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=70692.0). Chances are that that bug has been fixed ages ago.
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Probably got it from some old package or download site.
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Get 3.6.12. If you want a (comparatively) easy installer use the FreeSpace Open Installer (http://www.fsoinstaller.com), ignore the warnings it gives you about 3.6.10.
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I start with that defensive preamble because most users refuse to help me once they find out I am trying to run software on a netbook, simply because it's a netbook and they don't like them, don't feel they should exist, and have some weird psychotic bias against people who enjoy computers so light they blend right in with our college books.
You have no idea how much of a ***** it usually is. I have even had people tell me I couldn't play Diablo II because my GMA chip is too ****ty.
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Well we have plenty of people playing stuff on **** like an Intel Integrated so we're used to it.
But yeah, hopefully 3.6.12 will work.
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Why the **** do you think I am playing games from the 90's? Telling me my computer can't handle your awesome mod or that I should "just buy a new one" is ****ing stupid, because I am trying to get games working on a netbook, not my desktop.
Someone (like me) might say that the MediaVPs are too much for that machine. But FSO itself should run well and we encourage you to use it because
- better performance than with the retail engine
- better compatibility with OSes newer than Win98
- you can actually use your netbook's native resolution.
-Do not ask me to reinstall the game. Been there.
Actually, with your bleeding-edge 3.6.5, we would like you to reinstall FSO.
What settings should I start with. Obviously compatability modes
Erm, no. Not with FSO. You won't need any compatibility modes.
I start with that defensive preamble because most users refuse to help me once they find out I am trying to run software on a netbook, simply because it's a netbook and they don't like them, don't feel they should exist, and have some weird psychotic bias against people who enjoy computers so light they blend right in with our college books.
You have no idea how much of a ***** it usually is. I have even had people tell me I couldn't play Diablo II because my GMA chip is too ****ty.
Okay, but this place isn't the rest of the world. You may get hostile responses if you are hostile yourself, but otherwise, we'd like to get along with people.
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Even if .12 doesn't work at least you'll be able to use a .12 or .13 debug build to let people have a look at what the problem might be, because your initial post wasn't really wrought with details.
I do think installing the game(read; FSO stuff, obviously) with the open installer Battuta linked is probably your best bet.
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Why the **** do you think I am playing games from the 90's? Telling me my computer can't handle your awesome mod or that I should "just buy a new one" is ****ing stupid, because I am trying to get games working on a netbook, not my desktop.
Someone (like me) might say that the MediaVPs are too much for that machine. But FSO itself should run well and we encourage you to use it because
- better performance than with the retail engine
- better compatibility with OSes newer than Win98
- you can actually use your netbook's native resolution.
-Do not ask me to reinstall the game. Been there.
Actually, with your bleeding-edge 3.6.5, we would like you to reinstall FSO.
What settings should I start with. Obviously compatability modes
Erm, no. Not with FSO. You won't need any compatibility modes.
I start with that defensive preamble because most users refuse to help me once they find out I am trying to run software on a netbook, simply because it's a netbook and they don't like them, don't feel they should exist, and have some weird psychotic bias against people who enjoy computers so light they blend right in with our college books.
You have no idea how much of a ***** it usually is. I have even had people tell me I couldn't play Diablo II because my GMA chip is too ****ty.
Okay, but this place isn't the rest of the world. You may get hostile responses if you are hostile yourself, but otherwise, we'd like to get along with people.
Way to be an asshole, paraphrasing me. I said I had already ruled out all compatability modes, color depth settings, and reoslution settings. Putting words in someone's mouth is a lot more hostile than telling off PC eletists preemptively.
I said nothing about FSO. Again, paraphrasing HOORAY. I greatly appreciate the information that FSO was out of date, as I was given these files on a disk by a friend and I assumed updates for such an old game would have been long finalized. A simple enough mistake and not one deserving of some assholish retort.
If I have enough fun, I might even install it and set up mods on my modest Core2Duo/8600 setup. Well, it's modest now anyway- before the 8800 OC burned out and four years past, ha!
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FSO development has never stopped, we're rolling on towards the 3.7 milestone. 3.6.12 came out about...what, five months ago?
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I said I had already ruled out all compatability modes, color depth settings, and reoslution settings.
You said that "Obviously compatability modes, resolutions, and color depths have already been tweaked". To me that means that you've set some compatibility mode. And I was just trying to say that you do not and even should not do that with FSO, or fs2_open, or "awesome mod" or whatever you want to call it. If I misunderstood what you were trying to say, then OK, my bad.
I said nothing about FSO.
Uh, yes you did.
asshole
That I am.
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FSO development has never stopped, we're rolling on towards the 3.7 milestone. 3.6.12 came out about...what, five months ago?
A testament to it's quality.
THis automated FSO installer appears to be downloading some very large files- I really appreciate that service, but I would hope there was a standalone installer somewhere, to make it future-proofish. I do not mean a set of a half dozen files that must be extracted and placed either, I mean a definitive .exe containing all necessary files to get FSO online.
I mean, it would suck if this method worked and then five years from now I decided to revisit and found the automated service which made it all possible to be adandoned.
Anyway it's still running... I don't really understand why all the .ogg files need to be replaced (they aren't just media files?)
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THis automated FSO installer appears to be downloading some very large files- I really appreciate that service, but I would hope there was a standalone installer somewhere, to make it future-proofish. I do not mean a set of a half dozen files that must be extracted and placed either, I mean a definitive .exe containing all necessary files to get FSO online.
I mean, it would suck if this method worked and then five years from now I decided to revisit and found the automated service which made it all possible to be adandoned.
Well, this Installer works so that it downloads stuff from the Internet. And it does that based on a configuration file it accesses, which is also on the Internet (or at least that's how I've understood it). Therefore, new stuff cane be included into the Installer quickly and painlessly. And you, as an end-user, can simply rerun the Installer at any point, and it will then assess what components of your installation should be updated and what new components are available.
And because the Installer works in this manner, it is kept up to date quite well. At least better than any of the offline installers there have been.
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Way to be an asshole, paraphrasing me. I said I had already ruled out all compatability modes, color depth settings, and reoslution settings. Putting words in someone's mouth is a lot more hostile than telling off PC eletists preemptively.
I said nothing about FSO. Again, paraphrasing HOORAY. I greatly appreciate the information that FSO was out of date, as I was given these files on a disk by a friend and I assumed updates for such an old game would have been long finalized. A simple enough mistake and not one deserving of some assholish retort.
Frankly, you're being much more hostile here than any other people who have replied to you. So please, drop the attitude. Here newbies are gladly helped regardless of their situation, as long as they behave.
You get what you order.
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Paraphrasing is going to get a retort from anyone, regardless of post count.
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Being a smart ass will get you a retort from anyone, regardless of ignorance.
You've had your help now go do what you've been told to and see if it's fixed, if not come back with more information and a log, because really, at the moment you're just causing ****.
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Did you select 'The Works' option on the installer? If so you're about to be buried under a whole ****load of stuff. You only need to select the 3.6.12 executables.
I mean heck I can give you a direct link to the thread with those executables if you want to do it that way.
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Battuta's more qualified in the tech-support department than I am, but I'm very leary of Turey's installer. In the past, we'd have situations where it would install out-of-date software, the software wouldn't be there, etc. I'm not sure how much better it is now, but I think you'd do well to learn how to do a manual installation of FSO.
When you do such an install, all you need by default are the .exe files and the launcher - the mediaVPs are pretty hefty and might not take to your netbook well. Older versions of the executable files will have a standard and Inferno build, such as 3.6.12 which is the current official release. However, I'd advise anyone to take the Inferno builds over the standard unless specifically directed to do otherwise. Note that both vesions will also make use of a debug build, often noted with a "_d" at the end of their .exe title. There are also two Launcher versions out there - I make use of the standard version (mine is 5.5f); there's also the WXlauncher (though I believe I've heard it has some problems with syncing mods in FRED). Oh yes, before I forget, you might grab the version of FRED goes along with the build of your choice...
Thus, in a nutshell...
-Get the .exe build of your choice, and if you can benefit from SSE or SSE2 builds do so (you'll need to research your computer's processor to know which version is best. For instance, my Intel processor makes use of SSE2, so I use that build). Also get the debug version of this build.
-Get the appropriate version of FRED in relation to your build and itc corresponding debug build.
-Get the Launcher of your choice, or the one which works for you.
-Then, drop these things in your FS2 main directory. Use the launcher to select the build to run, and then launch the program. It's that simple.
If you're already aware of that, that's swell. Again, I think it's better to do a manual install. From using the installer my first time around, I can say that manually installing the software is a much better idea, though taking the time to be careful is also a sharp decision.
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The installer will remain my first line of advice because of how mind-bogglingly stupidly complex finding all the threads buried in this forum can be.
We really need to get a method of installation that's less bloody retarded, preferably one that involves downloading a single file and clicking it.
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Working on it Batty!
As for defending the Intel GMA, it _is_ a ****ty card, at least when it comes to OpenGL support. I'm not going to slam netbooks, I tend to like them, and I know a guy who runs EVE Online, Sins of a Solar Empire, and several other modern games on a netbook (even FSO!). But, the Intel chip sucks for Freespace, whether it's in a netbook or anything else. It should still run the game, but it's not going to handle many of the more recent additions as capably as even low end Nvidia or ATI offerings. But it should run without crashing at least.
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You are a marvel of human achievement.
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Did you select 'The Works' option on the installer? If so you're about to be buried under a whole ****load of stuff. You only need to select the 3.6.12 executables.
I mean heck I can give you a direct link to the thread with those executables if you want to do it that way.
There, see, a constructive post or two. Thank you very much. I decided to stop and retry through different methods after four hours of downloading files.
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I am mostly just wondering if the GPU drivers on that tiny thing support OpenGL correctly. The 3.6.5 build probably only used Direct3D mode, which has since been dropped. If the GPU does not run with the new OpenGL versions of FS2Open, then the only option is to go back to builds that supported Direct3D mode and in which it wasn't yet horribly broken, but those builds are unsupported and bound to have metric ton of more bugs than the newer ones.
So, the first critical piece of information is whether or not you can run, say, FSO 3.6.12.
My second concern for performance is processor performance and amount of memory (both RAM and video memory). Retail models are simple enough that this shouldn't present a problem, but due to how GPU's work, all the PCX textures will take up to four times more video memory than an equivalent, compressed Direct Draw Surface (DDS) texture which are widely used in the MediaVP's.
That means that in certain circumstances, if the processor and graphics card can handle the more complex model geometries, you can possibly even gain a few FPS with the MediaVP's (without advanced VP file).
Also, I would like to point out that while "re-installation" is not usually required in the conventional sense due to how FreeSpace Open works (all the "installation" consists of slapping stuff into your FreeSpace2 directory), the most common reason for support requests is user error during installation: Yes, it's possible to slap stuff into your FreeSpace directory in a wrong way, and while that will not require "re-installation" of the game, it will require re-arranging certain assets into their correct places. But, considering you are so far just trying to play the FS2 main campaign, I don't think that is your problem yet.
So, what you need are the following:
Latest Launcher application (http://swc.fs2downloads.com/files/Launcher55g.zip)
A recent FSO executable: I suggest either official 3.6.12 build from this thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=70692.0), or a bit more recent test build which has more optimization in it (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=73257.0), which would likely be advantageous with your proc and GPU.
In case you wonder if you should try the regular, SSE or SSE2 version of these builds, I recommend trying the SSE2 build(s) first and if they don't work, rever to SSE, if that doesn't work revert to regular. Or use CPU-z to find out what rule sets your CPU supports. Chances are it'll run with SSE2 rule sets, being of relatively modern make.
Can anyone link him to a functional set of shader files alone, just to see if his GPU can run with shader model 2?
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The installer will remain my first line of advice because of how mind-bogglingly stupidly complex finding all the threads buried in this forum can be.
Hey, the manual installation instruction thread is stickied and reasonably prominent. And it has links to all the relevant threads. And it is kept up to date (as far as official/stable releases go). *****.
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I think you overestimate the patience of the average user. Each and every click - up to and including extracting archives - is a barrier to entry.
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I think you overestimate the patience of the average user. Each and every click - up to and including extracting archives - is a barrier to entry.
Yes, but if we are to venture into that topic, FSO still isn't a full-fledged game. It is, in the end, a modification to an existing game. If a user specifically wants to start modifying his game, he shouldn't be expecting a method which involves snapping his fingers once. Twice, at most.
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Agreed, but I'd like to make progress in that direction.
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Go for it.
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Go for it.
Like it or not, FSO is the only way many people will be able to play this game in the first place. It isn't a mod so much as it's a patch to make it work in the first place, in my eyes. The process of installation has become so confusing and convoluted I have decided the game isn't worth my $6 or whatever I paid GoG, and I'll be on my merry way.
Except that I want a space sim for my netbook, and Freelancer has un-solveable issues with Win7, unfortunately.
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Go for it.
Like it or not, FSO is the only way many people will be able to play this game in the first place. It isn't a mod so much as it's a patch to make it work in the first place, in my eyes. The process of installation has become so confusing and convoluted I have decided the game isn't worth my $6 or whatever I paid GoG, and I'll be on my merry way.
Except that I want a space sim for my netbook, and Freelancer has un-solveable issues with Win7, unfortunately.
Wait what, someone just gave you a one stop link to how to do it (though it being Herra it was buried in a wall of text.)
Here, download these - http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=73257.0
put them in your FS2 folder, select them in the launcher, don't pick one that ends in D. Enjoy your game. (If you get a crash when starting, delete your /data/players directory).
If this guy does ragequit it's evidence that people need to STFU and stop being confusing, and start giving one-line advice. And we need to chop out the stupid clutter.
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I have decided the game isn't worth my $6 or whatever I paid GoG, and I'll be on my merry way.
ok bai. Merry holiday season!
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I'm sorry, but your eyes are wrong jjmounes. It's not a mod, or a patch to 'make it work'. It's an upgrade. The engine itself has been greatly enhanced and upgraded over many years of coder development. Calling it just a patch to make it work trivializes those efforts. Due to the staff size and time capable of being donated to a project like this, some things that we wish we could better support haven't made the cut, due to lack of hardware for testing, or time, or both. Are you having trouble getting the base game running with 3.6.12 still?
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The process of installation has become so confusing and convoluted I have decided the game isn't worth my $6 or whatever I paid GoG, and I'll be on my merry way.
Except that I want a space sim for my netbook, and Freelancer has un-solveable issues with Win7, unfortunately.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/14/90932429_3f1c2db2a9.jpg)
Hope you stick with it.
FS2Open is simpler than people usually give it credit to. All it needs is a system capable of running it, the retail VP's, and the FSO executable, and the Launcher which is used to set registry values for graphics resolution, bit depth and other useful stuff like command line options instead of typing them on every time you start the executable.
When you have the basic game working with retail data, you can start installing rest of the stuff, starting from mediaVP's; if you find your PC unable to run those, just revert to retail data by de-selection the mediaVP's from the Launcher.
What we need is a simple description of the components required to run the game, and all the extra stuff that is available being separate.
In fact, a core functionality option might be useful to have as default with the FSO installer: Check for the presence of the retail VP files, download most recent Launcher and fs2_open executables of the latest officially released version, and there you go.
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Here, download these - http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=73257.0
If this guy does ragequit it's evidence that people need to STFU and stop being confusing, and start giving one-line advice. And we need to chop out the stupid clutter.
And you also need to stop referencing users, who may or may not be having stability or operational issues, to be using BLEEDING EDGE TEST BUILDS. Seriously. Don't ever. EVER. do that again please. I appreciate the enthusiasm and the new Pilot code has been a long time coming and many of us are already used to it, but it doesn't help.
To every one else:
As far as what I can read, there isn't actually a problem here. He had a crash. Which is documented on GoG. He had a much older FSO Build, which the 3.6.12 build should hopefully have resolved, but I don't see (I may have missed it) where it was said that the problem was fixed or anybody asking if it was.
Instead, he got dog-piled. Regardless of how he started his post (which could have been easily over looked and the true meat of the situation addressed in a technically brisk ond proficient manner) and it ends up being turned into a multi-user debate for no reason.
While I know that many of us LIKE helping, sometimes too much help all at once (especially when there is a lot of opinion biased in it) can lead to a frustratingly complicated lack of understanding or desire to just walk away.
Fact: Apparently has or referenced a GoG install of FreeSpace 2. It is having a technical problem. The only issue the hardware brings to the table in any sense is in being able to load or use the heavier eyecandy.
Requirements: Needs and up-to-date-ish STABLE release, 3.6.12 executable. _should_ ideally have a download of the MediaVPs MV_Root.vp file (Just the root file).
Determination: If the requirements are fulfilled, does the reported crash still happen, or does the game operate?
Once the Determination has been satisfied, THEN the journey of what else to add to the game can be taken.
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You will note, however, that all these points were addressed (including a link to the .12 release thread) in my reply in this thread, which incidentally was the first one.
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Does it matter, I think the guy has rage quit and gone for good!
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I think he did that before he started.