Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Black Wolf on December 21, 2010, 11:14:53 am
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Been working on this in and off for a few months now, finally finished up the UVing and started texturing.
(http://i56.tinypic.com/k4tor7.jpg)
It's called the GTF Herakles, the derivation should be obvious. It's designed to be the killer Terran fighter early on in the TV War, designed from the ground up to integrate with the (then new) energy weapoons that the Terrans had finally gotten working on fighters. It's meant to be the mainstay of the Terran fleet for a big chunk of the War, before the development of the Hercules and the Apollo later on.
Stats and balance wont be finalized for awhile yet (tabling comes after texturing) but it'll have 4 gunpoints (You can't actually see them, but they are modelled in between the two big engines/missile bays and the core part) and a decent sized missile bay, though probably only around half that of the Hercules (good, for the timeframe). Once textured, this'll be released, like all the other mods for the (not) Supar sekret project, ala the Canberra and Stalker.
And the beginnings of the textures, obviously still very early WiP.
(http://i52.tinypic.com/28hq06d.jpg)
EDIT - Quick not - I am aware of the smoothing error, this will be fixed when I get it into Max to add the cockpit and (I'm going to be adventurous with this one) make some LoDs. It'll probably be about 90% faceted rather than smooth anyway.
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Nice box :lol: Feels like fighter-bomber hybrid, kinda reminds me of athena with the huge missile bays (i assume those big forward planes are those)
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It should work nice with the Angel and others.
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Isn't there some Herc concept art that's something like this?
EDIT: This one.
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Concept_gtf_loki.jpg)
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I agree with Nohiki, it looks sort of like an Athena predecessor.
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I think that it needs some slight canting of the engine nacelles, and perhaps some slight sweeping to their forward end as well.
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Would I forever be despised if I said I think it's a horrible design?
In practical terms, should you care to discuss them, it's not unrealistic, as you have your engines balancing the moment about the fighter's center of mass. But, it really does lack inspiration as far as a FS fighter goes. It's entirely possible to make an interesting, working design without resorting to making something along the lines of the Martin-Baker MB 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin-Baker_MB_2). If you're interested in some quick concept art, please let me know.
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I think something closer to the concept art right in this thread could be interesting.
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The concept art from Volition there is quite interesting, as we see a ship that would be right in place between FS1 and FS2. That said, it doesn't really work for Black Wolf's purposes in my opinion as it does fit in between FS1 and FS2. The target design needs to work for the early Terran-Vasudan War.
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Think it works fine there, would like to see it in Frontlines.
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Would I forever be despised if I said I think it's a horrible design?
In practical terms, should you care to discuss them, it's not unrealistic, as you have your engines balancing the moment about the fighter's center of mass. But, it really does lack inspiration as far as a FS fighter goes. It's entirely possible to make an interesting, working design without resorting to making something along the lines of the Martin-Baker MB 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin-Baker_MB_2). If you're interested in some quick concept art, please let me know.
True, but I guess that's the good part about it, if you get what I'm saying? I've always viewed the Terrans as progressing in terms of 'creativity' with regards to ship design. Looking at a ship like the Herc and then the Herc II, the II has sleeker lines and looks on the whole, more streamlined than the original.
And then you have the Perseus v. Valkyrie and so on. Working back from this, I'd believe that the FS1 fighters could be modern derivatives of GW fighters, which could probably have been even blockier. :P
Although, I will offer my support if BW decides to pursue a model looking closer to that concept art posted earlier - that thing looks sweet! :)
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I like it. Redefine the box.
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I've always viewed the Terrans as progressing in terms of 'creativity' with regards to ship design. Looking at a ship like the Herc and then the Herc II, the II has sleeker lines and looks on the whole, more streamlined than the original.
yeah but the Herc II looks like an ugly potato
anyway, I do agree that a direction which is more like in the concept art would be nice, now it's a somewhat uninteresting box, also partialy because it's almost symmetrical from top to down as well as side-to-side.
Also, a slight nitpick but Herakles is the Greek version of Hercules (which in turn is the roman rip-off of Herakles) and are the same thing.
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anyway, I do agree that a direction which is more like in the concept art would be nice
IDENTITY VERIFIED
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Oh hush, I'm not the first to have said it :<
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i know, i did too~
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I suppose the concept art in question here is of interest, but it's definately FS2-era/Reconstruction. What I wonder the most about it though is exactly what the artist was going for. The forward section irrefutably is that which ended up on the Artemis, the aft engine design is akin to what we see on the Myrmidon, and it also has this interesting bridge between the Herc I and the Herc II. The thing is, it's all of those and none of those at the same time.
If I saw that design made, I'd want to see it come out as a pirate kitbash sort of fighter, but one which was made properly - not like the Star Wars-esque uglies as seen in Blue Planet.
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For me it's definitely pre-FS1 and would fit well in Frontlines. Looks like it's what BlackWolf was riffing from too. I think sticking closer to it would make a more interesting model.
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Actually, I was coming at this from the PoV Dilmah was talking about. The Herc 2 trends owards the Herc 1, you get a blockier, less curvy ship. I wanted to push that trend even further backwards. I hadn't looked at that piece of art when making this ship because I am terrible at working from concept art. The lower fin has been removed for purely practical reasons, since I'm going to need to put this ship down on a flat surface, and the fin would have gotten in the way.
There are some cool ideas in that concept art, but I think it's pretty plainly the basis for the Herc II, which goes in the opposite direction to where I want to go. Also, UVMapping is a ****, and major changes to the geometry will require remap, which I am definitely not keen on. There is space set aside on the map for the addition of greebles, and I'm still struggling with the nose/cockpit area - this would be the only part that might get a full rebuild. I don't want to shoot down constructive crits here, but the boxiness was a deliberate choice at the beginning.
A lot of what I make is meant to look like something very specific. My Gas refinery (http://www.sectorgame.com/forums/userpix/24_refinery004_1.jpg) is meant to look like an oil rig, with big pylons and a flat top, my Canberra carrier is meant to look like the Canberra class LHDs that the RAN is getting. I'm building a transport atm that is designed to look like a big-rig in space. They're not supposed to be exact mimics of these terrestrial things, but they're supposed to make the player look at them and think "Oil rig" or "truck" as an immediate, visual clue as to the purpose of the model. This ship was designed to sit right at the bottom of the Herc2->Herc1 evolutionary gradient, and for me that visual indicator of purpose is actually more important in most cases than a neccesarily aesthetically pleasing design.
On that front, I am a tad concerned that people look at it and think "Athena". Snail and Nohiki - is there anything specific about the ship other than the colour scheme that gives you Athena vibes? For the record, the colours (specifically the red tips) are there as a sort of subtle homage to Lt. Ash' Apollo from the FS1 opening cutscene rather than trying to reference the white and brown of the Athena.
Oh - unrelated, but following conversations on IRC the other day, I just want to make clear that the current cockpit glass is a placeholder, and will be upgraded when I drop in the pilot and cockpit, even if there aren't big changes to the nose.
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My Gas refinery (http://www.sectorgame.com/forums/userpix/24_refinery004_1.jpg) is meant to look like an oil rig, with big pylons and a flat top.
:eek2::yes:
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I love the model, it regresses (I feel like this might not be the right word, but you'll probably get my meaning) the Herc design quite well.
The only thing I'm not keen on is the cockpit/nose section. Overall the ship looks a tad bit too long IMO, but that's probably just a taste thing. The cockpit, however, looks VERY long. Perhaps make it look a tad bit more like the Herc I? I wouldn't copy it or anything - the Herc II changed the cockpit a bunch - just seems a tad long as is. Some sort of meld between Athena/Herc I/this would look great, IMO.
I don't normally post model critiques (I'm not great in the artistic department normally), but this issue just particularly stood out to me. Looking forward to seeing the finished version. I'm looking forward to Frontlines. :yes:
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I actually like this. It's nice to see people not focus exclusively on "oh, it's pretty" and work more with a trend, as you have done. I, for one, think of it as "not all that nice looking but extremely compact and functional". I really like this. Keep it up, BW!
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Its ugly, but ugly in a good way.
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I think it's refreshing. We have so many "unblocky" ships already.
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Personally, I would make the engines smaller and put stubby wings on it, so then it would look like a fighter rather then a bomber. Or a crate.
Don't get me wrong, the model itself is really good. I just don't like the design.
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That fighter would fit in TVWP, IMHO. :yes:
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Could even make a nice support ship or such. I like it.
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On that front, I am a tad concerned that people look at it and think "Athena". Snail and Nohiki - is there anything specific about the ship other than the colour scheme that gives you Athena vibes? For the record, the colours (specifically the red tips) are there as a sort of subtle homage to Lt. Ash' Apollo from the FS1 opening cutscene rather than trying to reference the white and brown of the Athena
It's not really a visual thing, just the Athena's role in the fleet. The Athena always seemed to be more of a heavy assault fighter than an actual bomber (seeing as it can't actually carry bombs), this thing just seems to fit in that niche.
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The Athena is almost as a missile carrier, akin to some of the non-dogfighting fighters that the Americans made during the early era of guided missiles.
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Yeah, for a time it was thought that, since planes flew so fast and so high, fighters would basically become manned dumbfire missles that shoot up to fire more missiles.
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I kind of thought of the Herakles as a TVWar era version of the Herc 2. Mainly missiles. But I guess not, reading over again.
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Took Solatar's advise, shrank the nose and completely redid it. Looks much better now, IMO, although it does seem a little bit... tacked on. I think the old nose actually suited the flow of the ship more, despite the length, but I'm pretty happy with how this one turned out, so it'll live on.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Nice. Captures that FS1 ship design feel perfectly.
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New cockpit looks great :yes:
But now the engine pods look too large.... maybe try shrinking them vertically down to about 75% current size just to see how it looks?
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I agree, the nose looks outstanding.
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Nice! Fits in perfectly with the blocky early Terran aesthetic. :yes:
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Nice! Fits in perfectly with the blocky early Terran aesthetic. :yes:
This :yes: :yes: :yes:
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I agree with Snail here. Are the maps going to match those used on the original Hercules?
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Well, this is more positive response than I'm used to. :D Cheers guys.
Mobius - My texturing skills aren't supremely good - the original herc had a style I'm not sure I'm capable of replicating. I'm playing with some variants on that first post at the moment - it'll most likely retain the dark red highlights at the front and back of the engine pods, which I guess are kinda simiar to the pink highlights on the Herc, and a lot of the same badging and decals. Otherwise, I'm not sure - I'll have to wait and see myself I suspect.
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About the name: how about naming it the Antaeus? Hercules defeated Antaeus, so it'd be sense. :)
I know there's an INF ship with that name, but this one deserves the name Antaeus too (or one of its variants).
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About the name: how about naming it the Antaeus? Hercules defeated Antaeus, so it'd be sense. :)
I know there's an INF ship with that name, but this one deserves the name Antaeus too (or one of its variants).
I agree with a rename, especially considering Hercules is the Roman word for Herakles, similar to Pluto is the Roman word for Hades.
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How about GTF Eurystheus?
Eurystheus was the king who sent Hercules on his great quest. I reserved that one for a fighter I long ago intended to make but I doubt I get to that.
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It's a cool name, but a bit too long and confusing IMO.
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Yeah, Antaeus is more memorable than Eurystheus. Eurystheus sounds more like an individual ship name.
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I bet people probably said the same thing about 'Lancaster', and so it got shortened in conversation to 'Lanc'. I think it's a cool name, but in conversation, I doubt anyone wouldn't abbreviate it to 'Eury'.
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Sorry guys, the name is staying. This ship has existed as a basic idea in my head for literally years, and it's always been called Herakles. Not going to change it at the 11th hour. Besides, I like the progression - Herakles, Hercules, Ares.
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/me didn't even realize there was a name changing discussion and assumed that the conversation had somehow drifted to names. Knew I should've read something other than the most recent post. Oops. :D
I agree with keeping the name as Herakles. Suits the fact that it's a Herc predecessor quite well.
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I bet people probably said the same thing about 'Lancaster', and so it got shortened in conversation to 'Lanc'. I think it's a cool name, but in conversation, I doubt anyone wouldn't abbreviate it to 'Eury'.
Lancaster is pretty easy to pronounce though. Plus it sounds awesome.
Would make a good name for a Strike Bomber. ;)
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Man, I love BW's models. The care and effort that goes into giving them a place and a role in the FS universe is just superb. It gives them more character than any level of detail ever could, and it is ships like these that make the FS universe come alive. :)
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Man, I love BW's models. The care and effort that goes into giving them a place and a role in the FS universe is just superb. It gives them more character than any level of detail ever could, and it is ships like these that make the FS universe come alive. :)
Totally agree with VA. BW's models are just awesome, he's doing unique types of models - like noone is trying to do. His models are so old-school like and they have spirit of Freespace in :yes:. This fighter is nice, like other models. I'd like to see it in [of course] Hercules-like textures :).
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The Herakles was going to use textures from the Apollo bomber (Ash's Apollo). I think that'd be a lot cooler than derivative Hercules textures.
And I agree BW makes old-skool beast models.
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:bump:
Obviously, there's still lots of black space to fill in, but it's moving along slowly.
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