Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: BengalTiger on December 24, 2010, 05:43:40 pm
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SACRAMENTO, CA - An airline pilot is being disciplined by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) for posting video on YouTube pointing out what he believes are serious flaws in airport security.
Update: Whistleblowing pilot explains why he did it
The 50-year-old pilot, who lives outside Sacramento, asked that neither he nor his airline be identified. He has worked for the airline for more than a decade and was deputized by the TSA to carry a gun in the cockpit.
He is also a helicopter test pilot in the Army Reserve and flew missions for the United Nations in Macedonia.
Three days after he posted a series of six video clips recorded with a cell phone camera at San Francisco International Airport, four federal air marshals and two sheriff's deputies arrived at his house to confiscate his federally-issued firearm. The pilot recorded that event as well and provided all the video to News10.
At the same time as the federal marshals took the pilot's gun, a deputy sheriff asked him to surrender his state-issued permit to carry a concealed weapon.
A follow-up letter from the sheriff's department said the CCW permit would be reevaluated following the outcome of the federal investigation.
The YouTube videos, posted Nov. 28, show what the pilot calls the irony of flight crews being forced to go through TSA screening while ground crew who service the aircraft are able to access secure areas simply by swiping a card.
"As you can see, airport security is kind of a farce. It's only smoke and mirrors so you people believe there is actually something going on here," the pilot narrates.
Video shot in the cockpit shows a medieval-looking rescue ax available on the flight deck after the pilots have gone through the metal detectors. "I would say a two-foot crash ax looks a lot more formidable than a box cutter," the pilot remarked.
A letter from the TSA dated Dec. 6 informed the pilot that "an administrative review into your deputation status as a Federal Flight Deck Officer has been initiated."
According to the letter, the review was directly related to the discovery by TSA staff of the YouTube videos. "The content and subject of these videos may have violated regulations concerning disclosure of sensitive security information," the letter said.
The pilot's attorney, Don Werno of Santa Ana, said he believed the federal government sent six people to the house to send a message.
"And the message was you've angered us by telling the truth and by showing America that there are major security problems despite the fact that we've spent billions of dollars allegedly to improve airline safety," Werno said.
The pilot said he is not in trouble with his airline, but a supervisor asked him to remove public access to the YouTube videos.
He does, however, face potential civil penalties from the TSA. He said he would likely go public when it becomes clear what the government plans to do with him.
By George Warren, [email protected]
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And you people wonder where I get the idea that Big Government is bad.... :nod:
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And you people wonder where I get the idea that Big Government is bad.... :nod:
god damn it not already
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Thought airport security was an idea and big concern of all small goverment people as well.
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And you people wonder where I get the idea that Big Government is bad.... :nod:
god damn it not already
Thought airport security was an idea and big concern of all small goverment people as well.
Isn't the application of airport security down to the operator of the airport, though based on government legislation and guidelines, big government don't directly implement security. Also in most cases the day to day implementation of security is sub contracted to a private security firm. What makes big government look bad is that the federal government has made a big deal about security and putting all these measures into place and this pilot has said hang on there are still gaping holes in this airport's security. No doubt these holes are down to the airport's need to keep to schedule and the ground staff have been background checked for what that's worth. The fact remains that there is this vulnerability which it wouldn't take much for a determined group to exploit either by subverting a member the ground staff or by disposing of some one with an access card and using the card they carry and that is what is embarrassed to big government
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Somthing tells me Lib wasn't talking about the security when he made that comment.
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I'm assuming Lib's talking about a man revealing critical security issues and getting hounded by government agents as his reward.
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this website makes me ****ing despair for humanity
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And you people wonder where I get the idea that Big Government is bad.... :nod:
So, what, you'd prefer there to be no TSA at all? No FAA? L.O.L.
I'll leave it to you to figure out why this is so funny.
And even if you're not talking about the TSA or FAA, this kind of stuff will still happen, regardless of what size of government you have. Human nature has been the same for millennia now, it hasn't changed. I'm not condoning what the marshals did, or the punishment for exercising first amendment rights. I hope the administrators in charge catch some heavy flak for this. It's just folly to assume that a smaller government will keep it from happening.
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this website makes me ****ing despair for humanity
Seriously, it's a moron echo-chamber
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god damn it not already
Excuse me, that's uncalled-for.
this website makes me ****ing despair for humanity
Seriously, it's a moron echo-chamber
And these aren't much better. Can we have a rational debate without making snide comments?
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I'd rather have enough accountability in the system so that **** like this can't happen. And btw, the Admins who sent the people to his house should, at the very least, be fired, if not incarcerated for attempted intimidation under RICO.
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I'd rather have enough accountability in the system so that **** like this can't happen. And btw, the Admins who sent the people to his house should, at the very least, be fired, if not incarcerated for attempted intimidation under RICO.
But how do you add accountability? You can't do it by elected officials because by and large elections don't mean a great deal because they come down to who looks best which gets in and then you pray they are as good as they make themselves out and or don't go against their promises. If government appoints a person or body to provide oversight then who provides oversight for them?
Though the democratic system is sound in theory its implementation across the world is flawed by the flaws of human nature, the only difference between democracy and a self appointed government is the populations ability to change who is running the show which is usualy when things go bad, which because it means the big bad has happened it's always to late.
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you know...I was thinking, we could go back to having people settle problems with duels. Swords of course, not guns, the first one to call it quits lets the other guy do his thing. No ringers tho, if you are going to champion legislation....by God you are going to CHAMPION it!
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Now you make no sense.
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Oh no, I think politicians may get a backbone if it is either a spine or first blood from the torso. :lol:
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god damn it not already
Excuse me, that's uncalled-for.
this website makes me ****ing despair for humanity
Seriously, it's a moron echo-chamber
And these aren't much better. Can we have a rational debate without making snide comments?
since step 1 is apparently impossible we might as well go for step 2!
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I'd rather have enough accountability in the system so that **** like this can't happen.
I... what? I don't think accountability is a surefire way to stop it from happening. It's a good way to discourage it. In my opinion, true accountability in America is generated by public outcry and legal combat, and you'd be surprised how easy it is to keep things private.
And btw, the Admins who sent the people to his house should, at the very least, be fired, if not incarcerated for attempted intimidation under RICO.
Yes.
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If this had happened under GWB, I suspect that the people crying big-government foul would have applauded the TSA for cracking down on a traitor and demanded he be jailed for life as an enemy combatant.
Because you know, cognitive dissonance isn't actually painful. Which is a shame.
I won't get into the significant trust issues with sworn law enforcement doing **** like this (which he was, being a deputized air marshal and allowed to carry a weapon on a plane). There are better ways to whistle blow than randomly posting videos on Youtube. Ways that let you keep your badge and gun. Poor judgment from a person who is expected to exercise EXCELLENT judgment both behind the stick and behind the pistol.
Hell, Wikileaks is better than this approach.
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yeah i like how four years ago this would have been 'protecting us from turrism!' and now it's 'big goobermint!'
but then again people think either bush or obama were elected on the merits of their cam0aign rather than a simple (economy state) by (war state) by (incumbent?) model, so deception springs eternal in the political heart
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Remember this is the same TSA that has been putting their hands down peoples pants (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/nov/17/tsa-patdowns-scanner).
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So, what, you'd prefer there to be no TSA at all?
This much, yes please. I think the TSA adds minimal value at high cost, both in terms of money and freedom.
yeah i like how four years ago this would have been 'protecting us from turrism!' and now it's 'big goobermint!'
Hey, leave Goober out of this! :p
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If this had happened under GWB, I suspect that the people crying big-government foul would have applauded the TSA for cracking down on a traitor and demanded he be jailed for life as an enemy combatant.
Umm...no.
Hell, Wikileaks is better than this approach.
I'll disagree here. This pilot(most likely) did what he did to try and improve the system he was working under. Using only sources and examples he had first hand knowledge of and did use illegal means to obtain.
Wikileaks does what they do with the express purpose of embarassing the US and other countries using information that was obtained illegally.
Revealing unknown information that has a direct impact on someones life is very different from revealing that Hillary Clinton said something uncharitable about a foreign diplomat behind closed doors.
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If this had happened under GWB, I suspect that the people crying big-government foul would have applauded the TSA for cracking down on a traitor and demanded he be jailed for life as an enemy combatant.
Umm...no.
We'll, we'd just have to look that up, wouldn't we? It probably HAS happened before.
Hell, Wikileaks is better than this approach.
I'll disagree here. This pilot(most likely) did what he did to try and improve the system he was working under. Using only sources and examples he had first hand knowledge of and did use illegal means to obtain.
Wikileaks does what they do with the express purpose of embarassing the US and other countries using information that was obtained illegally.
Revealing unknown information that has a direct impact on someones life is very different from revealing that Hillary Clinton said something uncharitable about a foreign diplomat behind closed doors.
Let's leave WikiLeaks out of this. They are vastly overrated anyway.
By the way, this stuff happened in Holland also. An SBS6 journalist infiltrated an airport and an military base (!!!) succesfully and aired it. Discussion was if the fact that he was pointing out flaws was an excuse of his illegal behaviour. In the end he was fined for misrepresentation.
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Law enfrocement, even volunteer deputies, are not the press.
The TSA is broken on nearly every level, makes us less secure rather than more, and should be disbanded and replaced. One of hte biggest lasting mistakes of the Shrub. I take issue with poor judgement exercised by someone who is supposed to have and exercise EXCELLENT judgement. YouTube is not wikileaks. YouTube is not the NYT.
This pilots responses so far have been "I didn't think much of it" which implies to me that he did no such due diligence to follow channels. Behind the stick and behind a pistol I want and need THOUGHTFUL and appropriate judgement. The marshals came to his house to take his TSA issued gun. That they also took his CA permit is a DIFFERENT and BAD problem, no argument, thats a bill of attainder as far as I am concerned, and unconstitutional.
If you are deputized, you should expect to be treated differently and badly when you fail the trust associated with that deputization.
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I do think this would be a bigger story if Greta Van Sustern or someone else relatively apolitical had been involved. And how do we know he didn't do his do diligence? How do we know he didn't go up the chain of command and was blown off at every level? And as far as that goes, how do we know he didn't try and get this on FNC or CNN or something?
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This whole thing is stupid. He embarrassed his employer, of course he got fired or whatever.
As for the uselessness of TSA, it has all the faults of any security agency from mall cops to the SS. It's run by idiot human beings. All kinds of **** gets through because the show is more important politically than actual efficacy. For that, we can thank the same paranoid psychotics who came up with the DHS when we already had the department of defense, who think that giving every moron and/or nutcase who wants one a gun will somehow make us safer.
You know what? **** it. Airplane travel should ban any and all objects. No clothes, full body cavity checks, no luggage. Oh, and they tie you to your seat for the duration of the ride. Also, no one is allowed in if their skin is darker than this forum's background, because they're probably terrorists. THEN WE WILL BE SAFE.
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And as far as that goes, how do we know he didn't try and get this on FNC or CNN or something?
Because he didn't
http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/12/28/california.tsa.pilot/index.html?iref=allsearch
He assumed everyone already knew and was confused by the uproar. Anyone that ignorant of the consequences has no business with a pistol on an airplane.
He is an attention whore.
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This whole thing is stupid. He embarrassed his employer, of course he got fired or whatever.
IIRC the article stated he didn't have problems with the airline for this.
As for the uselessness of TSA, it has all the faults of any security agency from mall cops to the SS. It's run by idiot human beings. All kinds of **** gets through because the show is more important politically than actual efficacy. For that, we can thank the same paranoid psychotics who came up with the DHS when we already had the department of defense, who think that giving every moron and/or nutcase who wants one a gun will somehow make us safer.
First of all, I doubt the Secret Service are idiots, contrary to the TSA.
Secondly, I doubt that airline pilots and sky marshals are morons and/or nutcases.
You know what? **** it. Airplane travel should ban any and all objects. No clothes, full body cavity checks, no luggage. Oh, and they tie you to your seat for the duration of the ride.
The next thing you notice, we'll all have to be naked in public places (that includes old guys and fat women), just to be sure we're not hiding anything.
Also, no one is allowed in if their skin is darker than this forum's background, because they're probably terrorists. THEN WE WILL BE SAFE.
That would mean the Blue Man Group is banned from flying. Kind of a bummer.