Hard Light Productions Forums

Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Blue Planet => Topic started by: Dilmah G on November 02, 2010, 11:54:26 pm

Title: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: Dilmah G on November 02, 2010, 11:54:26 pm
This is pretty light, now that I look at it.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: General Battuta on November 02, 2010, 11:58:32 pm
This is pretty light, now that I look at it.

Pretty...light?
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: Droid803 on November 03, 2010, 12:00:20 am
That's actually quite a few ships in a single system, seeing as frigates are pretty damn big...
Narayanas are basically destroyers at 2km...

Then again, like half of third fleet is dead.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: The E on November 03, 2010, 12:02:30 am
3 Destroyers. 35 Frigates. 60+ Cruisers. I do not want to know what you'd call "heavy".
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: Droid803 on November 03, 2010, 12:03:18 am
80 juggernauts, I would presume.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 03, 2010, 12:59:42 am
3 Destroyers. 35 Frigates. 60+ Cruisers. I do not want to know what you'd call "heavy".

Probably something more like the OrBats I worked up when I was still doing campaign design myself.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: Dilmah G on November 03, 2010, 01:31:53 am
This is pretty light, now that I look at it.

Pretty...light?
Yeah, from memory, ORBATs are a little thicker than that usually. Although it's probably not necessary for BP to have an ORBAT that says when wingman 4 in the 9th squadron takes a **** on Tuesday. :P
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: bigchunk1 on November 03, 2010, 01:55:06 am
Nice breakdown. It makes the events in mission more meaningful to see that these ships aren't coming from nowhere.

   The frigate to cruiser ratio makes sense. When I first played AoA, I thought that Karuna class frigates would be the majority of the UEF fleet, but after realizing that they each had a fighter bay I got a little suspicious. Why would you want to put your fighter squadrons at unnecessary risk by docking them on frontline warships? This is what the Sanctus is for. I even remember reading in the tech database that "casualties are inevitable" with the Sanctus due to the role it plays in the fleet. It's the chess pawn of warships, sticking itself out to defend convoys and support frigate attacks. So while a Karunas may provide the main attack deterrent of the UEF fleet, the Sanctus is the first line of defense. Officers abord sSanctus class cruisers must know what they are getting themselves into.

What's the number next to each ship mean? I get the leading number... 1 for first fleet, 2 for second fleet 3 for third fleet. Does it have any significance to the game? Is that a call number?
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: Darius on November 03, 2010, 02:02:43 am
Yeah, from memory, ORBATs are a little thicker than that usually. Although it's probably not necessary for BP to have an ORBAT that says when wingman 4 in the 9th squadron takes a **** on Tuesday. :P

Do OrBats that you usually read have fighter squadrons as well? If so then yes I suppose it is light, but only because we're not going to put  fighters, marine transports or other light warship assets in the list.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: Dilmah G on November 03, 2010, 02:17:53 am
I've never read a Naval Order of Battle but the ones I've seen have had aviational assets. But that's not the thing that makes this one light, rather that the ORBATs I've read have had basically enough information on the listed units to know when the fourth wingman in the ninth squadron takes a **** on Tuesday.

I think it may have been a Dale Brown book I read, but I recall reading an ORBAT which even listed annual flying hours, partial unit history/combat experience, Squadron OCs as well as a whole bunch of cool looking but nonetheless almost useless information. You could basically plan your entire strategy against the enemy from an ORBAT that would be floating around up the higher echelons of our government.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: Pred the Penguin on November 03, 2010, 05:39:58 am
This list is obviously after the war considering it includes artillery squads. Were there even more ships before?
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: Dilmah G on November 03, 2010, 05:55:46 am
Hmm? Artillery squads are in place during WiH, IIRC.

And I'd highly doubt the UEF had a large fleet prior to the war, there was little need.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: Darius on November 03, 2010, 06:35:18 am
What's the number next to each ship mean? I get the leading number... 1 for first fleet, 2 for second fleet 3 for third fleet. Does it have any significance to the game? Is that a call number?

The second number is the ship class number, and the next two digits are that ship's call number, if you will.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: General Battuta on November 03, 2010, 07:22:44 am
I've never read a Naval Order of Battle but the ones I've seen have had aviational assets. But that's not the thing that makes this one light, rather that the ORBATs I've read have had basically enough information on the listed units to know when the fourth wingman in the ninth squadron takes a **** on Tuesday.

I think it may have been a Dale Brown book I read, but I recall reading an ORBAT which even listed annual flying hours, partial unit history/combat experience, Squadron OCs as well as a whole bunch of cool looking but nonetheless almost useless information. You could basically plan your entire strategy against the enemy from an ORBAT that would be floating around up the higher echelons of our government.

You've been reading/had access to this thing for more than a year now, so if you feel it's in any way inadequate to its role...
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: -Norbert- on November 03, 2010, 09:46:05 am
This might be a bit off-topic in here, but I'll risk it.
How long does it take the UEF roughly to construct new ships of each type? Or the GTVA for that matter.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: The E on November 03, 2010, 09:56:46 am
The problem is that UEF shipyards were not set up for wartime production. So build times were probably on the order of 2 or 3 years for a Karuna, and 4 or more years for a Solaris. They probably started laying down more ships when hostilities broke out, but they just aren't finished (not to mention that repairing combat damage on the ships that are out there eats up yard capacity as well).
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: General Battuta on November 03, 2010, 09:58:35 am
^ not canon, not canon

Those figures currently exist in a probability haze that will be resolved if they ever become crucial.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: -Norbert- on November 03, 2010, 10:14:34 am
The problem is that UEF shipyards were not set up for wartime production. So build times were probably on the order of 2 or 3 years for a Karuna, and 4 or more years for a Solaris. They probably started laying down more ships when hostilities broke out, but they just aren't finished (not to mention that repairing combat damage on the ships that are out there eats up yard capacity as well).
Couldn't they use some of the civilian shipyards to help them either in boosting their production capabilities or for reapairs? With the huge amount of civilian traffic in Sol there's bound to be many civilian shipyards to handle all those freighters and transports. Now they might not be big enough for Frigates and Destroyers, but surely they can help with fighters, gunships and cruisers. The Demeter and Sanctus have roughly the same size after all.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: General Battuta on November 03, 2010, 10:21:53 am
^ not canon, not canon

Those figures currently exist in a probability haze that will be resolved if they ever become crucial.

A great deal of the fighter and bomber production seems to be located on or around Mars. Along with weapons design (though Jupiter had a fair share of that too with Stormrider).
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: MatthTheGeek on November 03, 2010, 12:33:00 pm
FA 1309 Charles de Gaulle
I hope it's less akin to a piece of garbage than nowaday's one.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: The E on November 03, 2010, 12:36:24 pm
It's a Narayana.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: Molybdenum on November 03, 2010, 04:08:19 pm
So this list includes Fedayeen ships! (UEFg Masyaf is part of the deterrence flotilla). I was expecting the special assignment ships to be theirs, but it appears to not be so. Maybe they have other, hidden assets(Solace? Sanctuary?, Labuchere?)

EDIT-

Also... FA1337 ... really? are they that good :P
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: Colonol Dekker on November 03, 2010, 04:29:05 pm
I wish to serve on FG1102 in the sequel.

EDIT-

I WAS going to ask about the Fadayeen, but .................they don't exist do they ;)
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 03, 2010, 04:58:58 pm
I'm curious as to why the hull numbers start so high.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: General Battuta on November 03, 2010, 05:01:41 pm
I'm curious as to why the hull numbers start so high.

First digit is fleet, second is class, third and fourth are simple sequential. I see two errors, though.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on November 03, 2010, 05:15:06 pm
Can we assume then that the UEF has at least 420 fighters if all frigates are outfitted? (12x35) Plus however many a Solaris holds and whatever runs out of stations.

Also, out of curiosity do you guys take the statement that a Hecate has over 150 spacecraft literally? I've always found that to be extremely steep and unlikely given the amount of space available. I can only imagine how many a Solaris or Titan would hold if it were so. It's always bugged me as those sort of numbers would make every other Freespace mission pointless.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: General Battuta on November 03, 2010, 05:19:49 pm
We actually went to great pains to construct an operational logic in which those numbers could be retained and yet the norm for deployments would still be the wing (or squadron) level. Not all of those fighters are up to fly at one time; as Harpoon vets know a painful number of them will be on deck re-arming and refueling at any given point you need them; and you don't want to commit your whole air wing to anything but the most absolutely crucial scenario.

420 fighters is probably a very conservative figure for the UEF fighter corps.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 03, 2010, 05:24:19 pm
Since the UEF has an abundance of station and planetary bases I'd guess the figure is closer to 1000.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: Droid803 on November 03, 2010, 05:24:35 pm
It doesn't seem like a Narayana can carry 12 fighters.
According to Steve-O they should only carry six.

But factor in all the installations and you could probably double that number (as in, 840+)
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: General Battuta on November 03, 2010, 05:27:01 pm
It doesn't seem like a Narayana can carry 12 fighters.
According to Steve-O they should only carry six.

But factor in all the installations and you could probably double that number (as in, 840+)

ololololo you forgot the solarises, that's 600 fighters between them alone

Actually the Narayana probably can carry 12 but won't operate them all at once.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on November 03, 2010, 05:38:47 pm
600+420+arbitrary station number= 1020+

Also, do you happen to have a GTVA order of battle or rough guide perhaps? I remember hearing in one of the commentary vids there was a ship bible the team adheres to, letting you know what ships are doing whatever at a certain point in the campaign?
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: Colonol Dekker on November 03, 2010, 05:40:50 pm
edit late response to the narayana post-

CAPs' meaning four fighters (one wing, correct me if i'm wrong as this post is entirely supposition) will always be off the deck at one time at least richtig oder falsch?
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: General Battuta on November 03, 2010, 05:42:14 pm
600+420+arbitrary station number= 1020+

Also, do you happen to have a GTVA order of battle or rough guide perhaps? I remember hearing in one of the commentary vids there was a ship bible the team adheres to, letting you know what ships are doing whatever at a certain point in the campaign?

Yes. Unfortunately it was damaged in a tragic Battutaccident. However, loading up BP2 Massive Battle will give you a decent picture of many (though not all) of the GTVA warships in Sol.

edit late response to the narayana post-

CAPs' meaning four fighters (one wing, correct me if i'm wrong as this post is entirely supposition) will always be off the deck at one time at least richtig oder falsch?

Depending on the ship's deployment, yes, though the CAP may more often be two ships given how resource-hungry UEF fighters are.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: Colonol Dekker on November 03, 2010, 06:06:05 pm
Here's a question i'd find more interesting personally.

How many munitions, both strike craft geared and point defence/offensive, can each FG hold?
Assume fresh replen, fighters unladen.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: General Battuta on November 03, 2010, 06:09:40 pm
A lot. Dem ships, dey huge.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: -Norbert- on November 03, 2010, 06:15:05 pm
I thought the point defense are plasma (or whatever blob turrets shoot) and only the torpedoes, railguns, the Solaris' Gattler and the Burst FLAK use ammunition.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: Colonol Dekker on November 03, 2010, 06:18:10 pm
The amount ammo expended during an engagement like asteria is vast i'd think. The Hygeia obviously takes the strain off, i'd imagine they come from orbital stations fully laden :yes:
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: General Battuta on November 03, 2010, 06:42:37 pm
I thought the point defense are plasma (or whatever blob turrets shoot) and only the torpedoes, railguns, the Solaris' Gattler and the Burst FLAK use ammunition.

Point defenses are indeed energy weapons, you are correct.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on November 04, 2010, 09:26:11 am
FA 1309 Charles de Gaulle
I hope it's less akin to a piece of garbage than nowaday's one.
+1
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: Hellzed on November 04, 2010, 03:29:22 pm
FA 1309 Charles de Gaulle
I hope it's less akin to a piece of garbage than nowaday's one.
+1
+1
We could recycle it, and make it a floating nuclear power plant (it's the only thing that works correctly on this piece of sh*t). It would be useful ! Except, there's already too much of these in France.
Title: Re: Forces deployed in the Sol Theater
Post by: The E on November 04, 2010, 03:34:05 pm
Unlike the Carrier, FA 1309 was assembled nowhere near France.