Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: BrotherBryon on January 16, 2011, 01:36:25 pm
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I actually started this one before the Taurvi but ended up having a bad case of developers block before it got very far. Completely scraped it and started again just before Christmas and here are the results thus far. Still much work to do yet but it's along far enough for you all to get an idea of where I'm going with it.
(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1683/nephilimpic1.jpg) (http://img407.imageshack.us/i/nephilimpic1.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/5072/nephilimpic2.jpg) (http://img529.imageshack.us/i/nephilimpic2.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
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I like that serrated blade-edge.
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Me too!
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Wow! Really cool!
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I'll be a ***** and just say those gunpods just look to Terran-ish to me.... make 'em less.. regular...
I do like how the central bit wound up :yes:
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I'll be a ***** and just say those gunpods just look to Terran-ish to me.... make 'em less.. regular...
I do like how the central bit wound up :yes:
I'm going to be a real ***** and say they are fine as they are. Shivans are not bugs.
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I like it as well. That design is very Shivan. Don't see anything there that looks Terran at all.
Less than three the serrated edge.
Possibly you could thin out the spikes on the right side... They look weird atm.
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BEAST!
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It looks really well, there is a slight "terran" feeling on the gunpods, but the original also had it.
Textures will take care of it anyway, just like they did on the retail Nephilim.
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Shivans don't have cylindrical bombs as of the latest VP. Fix that at least in the pods and I will love it. (I'm also getting a bit of a Terran vibe from the pods, but I bet textures will fix that.)
Edit: Impressive ninja, Dragon.
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Shivans don't have cylindrical bombs as of the latest VP.
Deployed wings after launch. ;)
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it's flipped left-right
you are violating C-P symmetry
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wow, nice model you got there.
I'm starting to like Shivans..
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That thing is lookin' mean. :yes:
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That's not bad at all, the only place I see which could use some improvement is the head, which is still a bit too sharp looking, and I made a demonstration model (quickie) to show at I think might look cooler on the Neph;
(http://filesmelt.com/dl/perhaps.png)
(the one with the three circles is the demonstration model, the other is what is similar to retail geometry) I also didn't add those three spikes and the detail because, well, it's only a demonstration model of the shape. :p
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Hmm... I'm not sure. The deep red triangle is distinctive on the Nephilim. :nervous:
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Personally I like Hades' idea. As the artist for the Inferno Team, I gave eyes to many Shivan strikecrafts with dazzling results.
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I like Hades' idea too :yes:
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In some instances, sharp angularity is helpful for the model aesthetic - it might also be helpful from a design perspective as well. In the case of the FS1 Shivans, retaining a degree of your angularity is not a bad design decision for a heavily armed and armored craft such as the Nephilim. If you decide to apply some curvature to the main "triangular pit" structure, I would suggest that you keep such curvature subtle and well-smoothed - you ought to not see any breaks in the line without zooming in closely.
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I don't like what Hades is proposing, the round bevelling of the thing just doesn't look right.
I like how it is very sharp looking.
Also, I don't think it should have the eyes either. It's supposed to be a triangular pit, and it looks great on the current hi poly model pictures.
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it's flipped left-right
you are violating C-P symmetry
Fixed, not sure how that happened the retail model must have gotten turned around while importing it.
The cylindrical bombs are based off the texture in that area but I suppose I can rework them to look more like launch tubes.
Tried Hades suggestion, not so sure I like it but I save my work in increments so I can always go back.
(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/8660/nephilimpic3.jpg) (http://img826.imageshack.us/i/nephilimpic3.jpg/)
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Mmm.. I think I don't like that new front.
Not sure why though.
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It needs to not slope down as it goes forward. I like the flat plane bevel (because of the horn/prong behind it), but it needs to not slope.
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I think it may be the weird spikes you tried on it.
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The spikes are interesting.
But the slope down on the front just makes it look like a limp penis...
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I don't think I like the slope, I know I don't like the spikes. Those ruin the overall shivan-ness. Going by the retail model you could get away with something similar if they were more jagged (not curved) and started more at the front rather than in the middle... but as it is they just look awkward.
Also, the retail model did not have three red dots in the triangle, like you have there. Those are for the larger ships- the red on the Neph was mostly uniform. It's not a big deal but it's one of the main things that sets the Neph apart from other Shivan designs.
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I liked the original more.
It was more aggressive.
The weird spikes make this one look dumb, and the eyes make it look like a three-eyed bug.
I thought we agreed on LESS BUG - MORE FREAKISH MECHANICAL HORROR.
and yes, the Shivans do want you to get a ****ing cut on it. There is no "too sharp".
Even if I'm the only one who thinks this way, please send me a version with the old spiky 'head'. I'll UV and texture it myself if you want to go with the three-eyed one, just so I can replace it in my own Mediavps (like I do with a lot of stuff I don't agree with but winds up in it anyway). Immature, I know, but it's within my power, and I'm willing to carry it through.
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... (like I do with a lot of stuff I don't agree with but winds up in it anyway)...
I'd like to know more, please PM me with what you have felt needed "replacement"
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Hmm from a selfish, Inferno perspective, I like the three red eyes, as most of our HTL Shivan strikecraft now have eyes.
Not sure about the limp/flaccid/hung spikes tho.
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Doesn't anyone notice where he says he can easily go back to what it was before sloping the head and adding the spikes? :doubt:
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These spikes should definitely go back to the edges of the triangle an be more like sharp razor-blades instead of shaped teeth - I would stick to the retail version here :)
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I liked the original more.
It was more aggressive.
The weird spikes make this one look dumb, and the eyes make it look like a three-eyed bug.
I thought we agreed on LESS BUG - MORE FREAKISH MECHANICAL HORROR.
and yes, the Shivans do want you to get a ****ing cut on it. There is no "too sharp".
Even if I'm the only one who thinks this way, please send me a version with the old spiky 'head'. I'll UV and texture it myself if you want to go with the three-eyed one, just so I can replace it in my own Mediavps (like I do with a lot of stuff I don't agree with but winds up in it anyway). Immature, I know, but it's within my power, and I'm willing to carry it through.
+1 for Driod. I too would suggest reverting to the original design pattern - as seen in the above screenshot, the model loses its intimidating stance, and the "eyes" don't really look that good on the model. What happens is that the "pit" in the original model creates a depth to the model - adding those eyes removes that aesthetic. Retaining the sharpness of the forward section is also important in achieving that armored or argessive look - those flat blend lines (on the top and lower sides) need to be thin if included, and if you do include some degree of curvature, it needs to be very, very subtle.
When I see this thing coming at me, I want to see a horrifying, asymetrical beast with a looming, deep mouth coming towards me. The original pulls of that concept fairly well if you ask me...
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Geez calm down droid we are still in the conceptual phase here and I do agree with most of what you are saying just not so much the tone in which it was said. I'm reverting back to my original design, might have a go at beveling the triangle shape ever so slightly and see how that goes. The spikes need to be straight at this point, if I curve them at all it will only be slightly to make them look more like vicious knives. I'm not a big fan of the eyes either, I just don't think they fit this particular model. I'm only toying around with this part for now because I'm still trying to come up with how to approach the bottom of the pods, engines and recessed panel detailing. Needed to step back from them for a second and mull that part over. Will only toy with the head for another day or so tops before moving on.
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Sorry about the tone, just concerned. Sorry if I came off like an ass.
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No worries,
Playing around yields this which I'm happy with. I can keep or lose the eyes though they don't look all that bad in this configuration.
(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/1433/nephilimpic4.jpg) (http://img72.imageshack.us/i/nephilimpic4.jpg/)
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(http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/5904/nephilimpic5.jpg) (http://img535.imageshack.us/i/nephilimpic5.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
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I like the eyes, but I don't think they're on the texture, so hardcores might not agree with it.
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NICE.
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Eh, I still think the eyes make it more bug-like than it needs to be.
Hail the return of the sharp triangle.
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The Inferno Team approves of this work. When you are satisfied with your work, we would like to help you UVmap and texture it (w/ your permission).
-INFTeam
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I like the spikes on the sides, but it's difficult to see how far back those "eyes" are, could we get a picture a bit off to the side?
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I like the spikes on the sides, but it's difficult to see how far back those "eyes" are, could we get a picture a bit off to the side?
They are recessed in there pretty far so you really can't see them except for nearly head on, Gives it a bit of a personal "I'm going to kill you" look in my opinion.
The Inferno Team approves of this work. When you are satisfied with your work, we would like to help you UVmap and texture it (w/ your permission).
-INFTeam
Will do and thanks for the help, really liked what you guys did to the Taurvi and I can't wait to see the Basilisk.
(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/4870/nephilimpic7.jpg) (http://img717.imageshack.us/i/nephilimpic7.jpg/)
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Edit: Better picture
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+1 vote for ready-to-texture.
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+1 vote for ready-to-texture.
Seconded
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The Inferno Team concurs w/ above statements. Once the model is finalized and geometry errors carefully fixed, please kindly send it to us for UVmapping and texturing.
Projected estimate: If we receive the ship early next week, a fully textured version will be released to FSU by the following week.
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Eh, I guess I can live with those mini-eyes...
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There is an awesome distillery right here. :yes:
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...wha?
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Ported into blender and have started correcting the triangulation, god it's a mess I need to learn to do model design from a better application. I can correct things in blender but up and creating them from scratch still intimidates me. Would require a drastic shift in how I approach designing a model to ever become proficient at it.
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Google Sketchup has a notorious reputation of creating bad geometry. Instead, I highly recommend Wings3D (http://www.wings3d.com). The program, unless you force a geometry error, usually keeps the mesh pretty clean.
-R
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I can correct things in blender but up and creating them from scratch still intimidates me. Would require a drastic shift in how I approach designing a model to ever become proficient at it.
It's really just up to you to find a work-flow that's comfortable. It doesn't really matter so long as you're still producing models :P
Taken to the extreme, I knew this guy who worked mainly in loq airou (http://www.quelsolaar.com/loq_airou/) when he did low-poly modelling, exporting stuff was a nightmare (mainly because loq airou is actually just an application for geometry manipulation in a client-server architecture known as Verse), but he just really liked the program.
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Ported into blender and have started correcting the triangulation, god it's a mess I need to learn to do model design from a better application. I can correct things in blender but up and creating them from scratch still intimidates me. Would require a drastic shift in how I approach designing a model to ever become proficient at it.
Use E to extrude stuff and Alt-M to merge vertices; all the rest are details, which you'll get to know as you get along :P
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I think I got all the geometry cleaned up, at least as far as I know how to do. Let me know when you guys want it.
(http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9366/nephilimpic11.th.jpg) (http://img152.imageshack.us/i/nephilimpic11.jpg/)
(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/4883/nephilimpic9.th.jpg) (http://img39.imageshack.us/i/nephilimpic9.jpg/)
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3831/nephilimpic10.th.jpg) (http://img819.imageshack.us/i/nephilimpic10.jpg/)
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3011/nephilimpic8.th.jpg) (http://img841.imageshack.us/i/nephilimpic8.jpg/)
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Now would be good. We'll UVmap and texture it in the very near future. ;)
INFTeam
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Tried to upload the files but says the upload folder is full, contact an administrator.
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Try uploading to Mediafire.com
-R
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One more time.
edit: Removed link
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Thank you. The Inferno Team will get the Nephilim UVmapped and textured.
-R
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Here's a geometry error that needs fixing:
(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/9914/nephilimbug.png)
There are others but this is the major one that is perhaps most time consuming. Please kindly link the pieces together and send us the fixed mesh.
Thanks,
INFTeam
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Whoops can't believe I missed that, simple enough to fix. Let me know about any other problems. Fixed and uploaded again.
http://www.mediafire.com/?l6qiera6ok969gb
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I really want to shoot that thing dead, many times over.
Good job there, BrotherBryon.
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UPDATE: Mesh has non-manifold areas that still need fixing. However, work has begun on texturing the Nephilim and is going well. Due to our current workload on our own project, it may not be finished within this week.
INFTeam
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Ok I've fixed the geometry errors. Try the attached.
[attachment deleted by ninja]
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Where was the problem so that I know what to look for next time around?
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Difficult to describe, but open the .blend you previously uploaded and enter edit mode. Then with nothing selected switch to edge mode. Next go to Select->Non-Manifold. All the problem edges are selected, so just pick one and zoom in to examine the geometry at each location.
Typically it's just a stray edge, though on the starboard forward facing area there was also a rogue face that was not visible from outside. Imagine 2 cubes that are side by side and then get joined at the touching verticies, but the faces that were touching don't get deleted once they are fused. You have this weird 'model volume' divider plane, and the engine doesn't know which part of the volume it's supposed to consider 'inside' and which is 'outside'. :)
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Cool, will use this to clean up the Astaroth tonight.
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imo the various intakes and missile holes can be done with normal maps. you should worry about upgrading the general shape based on the texture.
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Cool, will use this to clean up the Astaroth tonight.
If you find any errors can you PM me or something? I'm in charge of the Astaroth ship for FSU.
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I fixed all the errors I could find before handing it over to the Inferno team. VA's tip helped me find them a lot easier. Didn't here anything from the Inferno team about finding any more problems while they were mapping and texturing so I'm assuming all went well. At least as far as the Astaroth is concerned, they are still working on the Nephilim. Afraid the design is even more complicated than the Basilisk so it's probably going to take a while to map.
Edit: I think we should keep any further discussion of the Astaroth to the Shivan Strikecraft thread.
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We have mapped most of the Nephilim, but we hit a roadblock when mapping the smaller details on one of the wings. As a result work has stopped on UVmapping the Nephilim to shift to other priorities.
I will hand over the UVmapped Basilisk, Scorpion, Manticore, and Nephilim (partially) over to the FSU sometime this week.
-R
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protip. always bevel large sections of straight edges and lines. look at any type of vehicle.
even something as large as ships, while they appear to have flat lines, are actually very curved.
for something that requires maximal space, it's bound to have various protrusions. and for strike crafts, it'll likely be curved inward and beveled to reduce size/mass.
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protip. always bevel large sections of straight edges and lines. look at any type of vehicle.
even something as large as ships, while they appear to have flat lines, are actually very curved.
for something that requires maximal space, it's bound to have various protrusions. and for strike crafts, it'll likely be curved inward and beveled to reduce size/mass.
Dude, wut?
Why bump at 7.5 month old thread to give modelling tips to a model that is clearly out of the modelling phase? (The last post says they've mostly UV Mapped it and handed it off for texturing).
Since the thread is here anyway.. this craft is done.
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When I read "protip" and then failed to recognize who you are at this community, the first thing that ran across my mind is "Who is this guy, and who does he think he is?"
Here's your mistake: (1) we don't know you around here; (2) your advice is at best borderline-related to the subject matter of these threads; (3) you practiced necrothreading. This invariably will cause people to think of you as a preteen arrogant newb who has no idea of what he's talking about, and thus effectively causing you to lose much credibility.
One tip: When you are a nobody at this or at any online community, be very wary of giving advice, especially here on the FSO boards. People here are very sensitive about their work, so be careful of what you say.
EDIT: Your post count is 29; keep that in mind when you post around here.
R
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Despite being tactless, it is a good tip. :nervous:
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Droid has taught me that tact is overrated; all you need to do is to get the hurtful truth across. ;)
R
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Well that said I don't think we should discourage people piping in, they should just do so at the right time (as in, when such things are actually in the state of being discussed).
7.5 months old though? Hell, isn't this thing like textured and in-game already? lol.
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People must use discretion and discernment when posting criticism.
R
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7.5 months old though? Hell, isn't this thing like textured and in-game already? lol.
Indeed it is, thanks again to mjn.mixael for the outstanding texture work. A few in game pics were posted in the shivan strikecraft thread but they have been deleted by that darn ninja.
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When I read "protip" and then failed to recognize who you are at this community, the first thing that ran across my mind is "Who is this guy, and who does he think he is?"
Here's your mistake: (1) we don't know you around here; (2) your advice is at best borderline-related to the subject matter of these threads; (3) you practiced necrothreading. This invariably will cause people to think of you as a preteen arrogant newb who has no idea of what he's talking about, and thus effectively causing you to lose much credibility.
One tip: When you are a nobody at this or at any online community, be very wary of giving advice, especially here on the FSO boards. People here are very sensitive about their work, so be careful of what you say.
EDIT: Your post count is 29; keep that in mind when you post around here.
R
Couple distinctions that need to be made here; post count and how long you've been here mean nothing, and is certainly not a mark against against this guy.
Necrothreading isn't bad as long as it's on topic and still on topic, which it technically was. He was far too late for his point to be of any use, I'll give you that.
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Cool. I don't think this needs to be discussed any further.
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Split out the entertainment.