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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bob-san on January 18, 2011, 12:31:05 am

Title: Vocaloids
Post by: Bob-san on January 18, 2011, 12:31:05 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JZO8J2moWA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmSoLpzhqUk
and many more...

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: DarkBasilisk on January 18, 2011, 03:09:51 am
It's too bad all the really really high quality ones (there's several that sound nearly human), aren't really concert songs :(

Ex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKc2h0PiSIA

I'd like to see something like that in concert even if it isn't party mode, either that or something wtf like Double Lariat  :cool:
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Pred the Penguin on January 18, 2011, 04:07:49 am
I've never even heard of this. o_o
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 18, 2011, 04:10:10 am
I've never even heard of this. o_o

I have, but am totally uninterested in seeing what it does!
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Ravenholme on January 18, 2011, 04:56:10 am
I've never even heard of this. o_o

I have, but am totally uninterested in seeing what it does!

It's technically impressive NGTM-1R, even you have to admit that.

Though only the Japanese could dream up the idea of a holographic frontman/woman for a band.
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Gortef on January 18, 2011, 05:11:35 am
It's indeed quite impressive what that software can do. I've had an interest for the whole thing from the moment I heard about it... can't remember when that was though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoT7F10D8TQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoT7F10D8TQ)
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Satellight on January 18, 2011, 05:26:59 am
Wouahouh ! Technically, that was pretty awesome...

However, the song in the first link remember me of the beginning of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--I1v8K9zxw)  :nervous:

That's pretty disturbing...

Just try these simultaneously :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-JZO8J2moWA#t=23s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--I1v8K9zxw
 
:lol:

Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Ghostavo on January 18, 2011, 07:41:31 am
I'd like to see a human singer try to sing as fast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVRJQQlvx1k&feature=related
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Flipside on January 18, 2011, 07:54:58 am
I've used Vocaloid on a few occasions, it's a nice little tool, but takes a lot of practice to get right. Personally, I prefer stuff like Voices of Passion or the Forgotten Voices collection.
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: iamzack on January 18, 2011, 11:01:18 am
Watching those first videos makes me incredibly uncomfortable and I'm not sure why.
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: redsniper on January 18, 2011, 11:26:49 am
Because it reminds you that robots will soon take over the world?
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on January 18, 2011, 12:31:59 pm
Have a listen to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBr5ogGDfOs

Apparently, the guy who composed this song has Miku Append.
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Mongoose on January 18, 2011, 01:51:50 pm
The technology is impressive, but the whole "Let's make like Sharon Apple from Macross Plus and have virtual concerts yay!" is more than a little unsettling.  I mean, it's one thing to do something like Dethklok concerts, where Brendon Small et al. are performing under a screen showing the fictional characters, but when the vocals themselves are completely artificial...I don't really see the point at all.

(The characters make for some really great pr0n, though.  Not that I would know personally. >_>)
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Spoon on January 18, 2011, 02:30:09 pm
Vocaloids are awesome.
I've watched those concert videos with absolute amazement when they first came out.
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Nemesis6 on January 18, 2011, 02:52:35 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeqRk3rSdaw
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Commander Zane on January 18, 2011, 03:03:54 pm
Quote from: Poster from the following video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmSoLpzhqUk
Wow they get this and we get...Justin Beiber...NO FAIR :(
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Kolgena on January 18, 2011, 03:07:47 pm
I swear that the hologram is lipsynching the music.

I'm just surprised that you would want to go to a concert to listen to a synth.

I also just realized that the live band has a slightly more difficult time than other bands to get their timing right. I mean, they're essentially playing to a prerecorded voice (I think?), and need to get the timing of when the vocals stop and start exactly right, or else entrances will be... messy.
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Flipside on January 18, 2011, 03:16:03 pm
Quote
I'm just surprised that you would want to go to a concert to listen to a synth.

I saw Jean Michell Jarre at Docklands ;)
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Commander Zane on January 18, 2011, 03:18:32 pm
Quote
I'm just surprised that you would want to go to a concert to listen to a synth.

I saw Jean Michell Jarre at Docklands ;)
Ooh that would be awesome.
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Ghostavo on January 18, 2011, 03:19:27 pm
I swear that the hologram is lipsynching the music.

I'm just surprised that you would want to go to a concert to listen to a synth.

I also just realized that the live band has a slightly more difficult time than other bands to get their timing right. I mean, they're essentially playing to a prerecorded voice (I think?), and need to get the timing of when the vocals stop and start exactly right, or else entrances will be... messy.

The voice is not prerecorded, it uses a speech synthesizer. That's the whole point of the thing, to be able to reproduce human singing at will, just giving it a melody and lyrics.

I'd wager there's some sort of input given to it by part of the band so it can keep up with them, and not the other way around.
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Flipside on January 18, 2011, 03:30:42 pm
Chances are they use Midi-syncing on the Drums which the vocaloid is slaved to, that would make sure the voice and the animation always kept up with the band, rather than the band having to keep up with the image.
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: DarkBasilisk on January 18, 2011, 03:40:05 pm
I'd like to see a human singer try to sing as fast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVRJQQlvx1k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwI80H8CsGQ&t=0m30s :D Not only that, they sung at about 80% that speed, in coordination. Never underestimate what a human can do with enough practice, especially the Japanese because they'll spend 16 months to make autoplay super mario and everything else under the sun.

EDIT: the end at 4:16 is just insane.
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Ghostavo on January 18, 2011, 04:15:28 pm
But they took turns! :p
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Spoon on January 18, 2011, 04:18:09 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwI80H8CsGQ&t=0m30s :D Not only that, they sung at about 80% that speed, in coordination. Never underestimate what a human can do with enough practice, especially the Japanese because they'll spend 16 months to make autoplay super mario and everything else under the sun.

EDIT: the end at 4:16 is just insane.
Holy ****!

I'm just surprised that you would want to go to a concert to listen to a synth.
I really dont see how its is any different from going to a concert with real fake people on it  :p
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 18, 2011, 04:23:56 pm
It's technically impressive NGTM-1R, even you have to admit that.

While quite possibly true, it's not the sort that I'd be interested in. As I said.
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Flipside on January 18, 2011, 04:42:19 pm
The problem is that it sounds like Death by Autotune in places, though, in fairness, you'd be hard pressed to find a vocal synth that doesn't.
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: swashmebuckle on January 18, 2011, 06:03:16 pm
I can see how this could be helpful to composers or producers who don't have access to quality singers, but the whole point of going to a big live show like this (other than enjoying the nice speakers and probably not enjoying getting felt up) is to hear how the performers react to each other and the crowd in the moment, and canning the most flexible and expressive member of the ensemble is pretty bizarre, IMO.

Also, you would think that if your frontman wasn't bound by the laws of physics she would have some moves...
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Kolgena on January 18, 2011, 06:23:11 pm
I'd like to see a human singer try to sing as fast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVRJQQlvx1k&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwI80H8CsGQ&t=0m30s :D Not only that, they sung at about 80% that speed, in coordination. Never underestimate what a human can do with enough practice, especially the Japanese because they'll spend 16 months to make autoplay super mario and everything else under the sun.

EDIT: the end at 4:16 is just insane.


I suspect that even if I knew Japanese, I wouldn't have a clue what just happened there. Holy ****.

I can see how this could be helpful to composers or producers who don't have access to quality singers, but the whole point of going to a big live show like this (other than enjoying the nice speakers and probably not enjoying getting felt up) is to hear how the performers react to each other and the crowd in the moment, and canning the most flexible and expressive member of the ensemble is pretty bizarre, IMO.

Also, you would think that if your frontman wasn't bound by the laws of physics she would have some moves...

What, shooting subluminal  lasers out of her eyes?
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: DarkBasilisk on January 18, 2011, 07:04:32 pm
I can see how this could be helpful to composers or producers who don't have access to quality singers, but the whole point of going to a big live show like this (other than enjoying the nice speakers and probably not enjoying getting felt up) is to hear how the performers react to each other and the crowd in the moment, and canning the most flexible and expressive member of the ensemble is pretty bizarre, IMO.

Also, you would think that if your frontman wasn't bound by the laws of physics she would have some moves...

Not just composers but also there's a story I heard being passed around that someone in Japan got it for his mute niece as a present. She loves music but she can't get any semblance of coherent sound out of her body :( It mentions how she started playing with it and looked like she had died and gone to heaven. So much dawwww!
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Ravenholme on January 18, 2011, 07:45:59 pm
I can see how this could be helpful to composers or producers who don't have access to quality singers, but the whole point of going to a big live show like this (other than enjoying the nice speakers and probably not enjoying getting felt up) is to hear how the performers react to each other and the crowd in the moment, and canning the most flexible and expressive member of the ensemble is pretty bizarre, IMO.

Also, you would think that if your frontman wasn't bound by the laws of physics she would have some moves...

Not just composers but also there's a story I heard being passed around that someone in Japan got it for his mute niece as a present. She loves music but she can't get any semblance of coherent sound out of her body :( It mentions how she started playing with it and looked like she had died and gone to heaven. So much dawwww!

If you can find a link to that story, I'd been grateful. What a badass uncle.
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: DarkBasilisk on January 18, 2011, 07:56:27 pm
Found it!

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Ravenholme on January 18, 2011, 07:59:11 pm
Found it!

D'awwwwwwww  :yes:
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Mongoose on January 18, 2011, 09:26:05 pm
Good End. :yes:
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Gortef on January 19, 2011, 05:21:18 am
Aaawww, Good end :yes:
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Titan on January 19, 2011, 09:05:27 am
The singer is the third most f***ing annoying thing I've ever heard. The rest of the band sounds cool, and as a technical exercise, it's pretty amazing.
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: T-LoW on January 19, 2011, 09:14:42 am
The singer is a computer progam based on a real female singer - if I got it right.
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Kolgena on January 19, 2011, 06:24:01 pm
I think so. I believe that voice actors will record sounds that the computer will use as a basis to generate synths from.
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Pred the Penguin on January 19, 2011, 10:46:52 pm
I think it's really the style of Japanese songs that people are having problems with...
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Commander Zane on January 19, 2011, 10:58:22 pm
I know, I listened to 220 tracks from EXIT TRANCE in a three day period, it was awesome.
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Mongoose on January 20, 2011, 12:06:51 am
I think it's really the style of Japanese songs that people are having problems with...
Well yeah, J-Pop is also pretty damn banal as a rule. :p
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: SypheDMar on January 24, 2011, 10:14:54 pm
"Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're my only hope."
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Bob-san on March 02, 2011, 06:58:22 pm
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81348070/?lt=em


I think that's much better than the other vocaloid videos. Don't you?
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Luis Dias on March 02, 2011, 07:36:35 pm
NO
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Commander Zane on March 02, 2011, 07:51:42 pm
All I saw was the title on my browser window and closed it immediately after that.
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 02, 2011, 07:59:06 pm
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81348070/?lt=em

Graphical quality is low.
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: Herra Tohtori on March 03, 2011, 02:15:48 am
Well, the way I see it, Vocaloids are instruments. They aren't intrinsically bad or good. Just like with all music, there are three things that define the quality of a piece of music:

1. The quality of composition (melody, rhytm, subjective)
2. The quality of arrangement (how well parts are written to different instruments, how well they work together, subjective)
3. The quality of performance (aside from stylistic choices, objective)
4. The quality of storage media (basically quality of the audio track... in many cases with music on youtube, it is horribly maimed by high compression rate and/or bad ideas such as playing a video on niconico, recording the audio through a microphone to make a new video, or other such nonsense).

...FOUR things that define the quality of a piece of music.

Going with this, I'd say Vocaloids have a lot in common with 8bit and MIDI. For the end result to work, the original song needs to be a good one, the arrangement needs to be good, and the performance needs to be good. For 8bit and MIDI, the arrangement is synonymous to performance (aside from small things like rendering soundfont for MIDI files, but let's not nitpick). For Vocaloids, though, arrangement is usually the same as the original, with a de-voiced or voice-clean audio track on background and the Vocaloid performing the lyrics. The Vocaloid program is an instrument, and its user is the musician whose responsibility is to make it produce vocals that are in tune and sound at least vaguely like the original lyrics (the closer, the better), and transition smoothly and naturally from words and sentences to other. What I don't understand is how some people can possibly make a vocaloid perform out of tune...

When these elements get together, though, Vocaloids can do pretty cool stuff. Most suck, like you would expect according to Sturgeon's Law (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitle3tinj4tz). But those that work... Some are amusing. Some are pretty cool, and some can be amazing (though this happens relatively rarely). Examples below.

Lady Gaga covers for example tends to work fairly well, assuming you care for her work in the first place:

Miku & Rin - Telephone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9PCNWDSQ3Y)
Megurine Luka - Bad Romance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-PqpCljzlw)
Kasane Teto - Bad Romance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePiqKp6PMZI)
Megurine Luka - Poker Face (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zfmy0uT58Q)
Kasane Teto - Poker Face (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yinGTMrYGmA)

Luka's versions sound less like Engrish but the vibrato may be a bit excessive. Teto tends to be more crisp but the pronunciation is not quite as close to English...

Big Al - I'm Too Sexy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM7XylR4LNg) ; The original is hilarious. This made me outright lulz.
Hatsune Miku - Still Alive (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlZptJOD5vY) in Japanese. It's Better Than It Sounds. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BetterThanItSounds)

Akita Neru [Kagamine Rin] - God Knows (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUvLLzxAgnI)
Megurine Luka - God Knows (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSPV1k-WEOk)
Kasane Teto - Fly Me To The Moon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtoxFBUimOc)  Evangelion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmkWPvXdem0) flashbacks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEc7aHDP4W0) D:

Megurine Luka - Scarborough Fair (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYBTQsj1RLo); Hardly a trace of Engrish here.

Kaito (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0ib0HVMJ7g) and Miku (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFPx0XLnbn0) versions of Finlandia hymn. Unsurprisingly, Vocaloids sing much much better in Finnish than in English. This is because Finnish and Japanese are both easy languages for computer to pronounce, English is not. You poor sods. Another good examples of Finnish vocaloid stuff are the Finnish (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMMacfUdzVQ) Anthem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyOlV7NOWgY), Karjalan Kunnailla (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yR-KoRitg0), Suomen laulu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDLfkjTWLSk),  Lapsuuden toverille (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJogAud0Ve0), Ylioppilaslaulu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vSURN9n8g8) and of course the immortal Ieva's Polka aka Loituma Song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrgO_9ey53M).


Certain classical pieces translate pretty well to Vocaloids, for the exact same reason they translate well to 8bit or MIDI versions: They're just so good it's hard to make them bad.


Hatsune Miku, Kagamine Len & Rin + Basso Continuo - Pachelbel's Canon in D Major (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB9-kltDu4A) ; simple and faithful to original.
Miku Choir - Bach, Fugue in g minor BWV 578 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgR8yriJt7k)
Miku Choir - Beethoven Piano Sonata No.14 (Moonlight Sonata) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sVrxUtgdP4)
Beethoven Symphony No.9, 4th Movement (Ode an die Freude) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2tjAli21pM)
Hatsune Miku - Giuseppe Verdi: Requiem, "Libera Me" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEMWvnpN51k) (no, not that Libera Me. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY06IgyN_RM))
 
 
 Maybe that's enough for one sitting...
Title: Re: Vocaloids
Post by: redsniper on March 03, 2011, 08:11:59 pm
Star Spangled Banner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgtnDr8LWuw) is all right. Hard to find a good Amazing Grace (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi3HRG67RJk) though.