Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: CAP1331 on January 31, 2011, 07:54:58 pm
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Hi,
I'm new to the forum. I love what you have done with the engine, it's really awesome. As a little tribute, I've tried to redo the medals from FS2. I don't know if this will be usefull but at least I enjoyed doing it. I've tried to keep them as similar as possible with default. I would appreciate your feedback a lot.
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Welcome to HLP!, hope you enjoy your stay :D
About the medals, they look like the originals but they don't feel realistic, you might want to add some shadowing and stuff like that... maybe cloth like textures over the ribbons and metal like shine over the medal, not sure what else would help to make them look more real.
BTW, I'm not part of the FSU so.. don't take my input as a competent insight.
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The default medals were created through modeling, which is why the lighting on them is more convincing. If we're aiming to recreate the Medal room in higher resolution, we'd need to render it in 3D, if only to keep lighting consistent across medals and between the medals and the board. These are quite good for a 2D job though, and I'm wondering if they could be used somehow...
Maybe someone's mod could implement these as ship decals, as a way to decorate fighters with the medals the pilot has earned? This might be more appropriate for the badges than the medals.
Medal 4 has a decent lion on it. I know someone here was working on the Blue Lions insignia, and was looking for a decent lion, but that was many weeks ago. Edit: Herra Tohtori, over here: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=71959.msg1454968#msg1454968
Oh yeah, I'm also not FSU. Those that are will have the badge under their name. So, what I say also isn't competent insight :P
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I agree with Rodo, the input of an FSU member would be useful.
*takes a look at the medals, thinking about using them in Syrk*
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I feel like your images are the reference the GTVA gave to the guy who makes their medals. It looks very nice, but it simply is isn't the real thing, not in a bad way, and it would be a great reference if actual 3d models will be used for the medals. Good work.
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They indeed look like a reference material and could be even used as such when making actual models.
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Oh cool sprite-style medals!
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If they are vector graphics (Inkscape, Illustrator, etc) we can export them and import them in a 3d software.
Extrude them a bit and chamfer some stuff and you got your 3d models. :)
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Thank you guys for your comments. They're 2D vector graphics, and I must agree with you, it's not the real deal. As for adding a ribbon texture, I think it's not necesary, it looks the same once it's shrunk to the retail size and it makes my laptop crash :p. I will try to export them and make a 3D versions in Sketchup (a process that will take me some time), specially since nobody had any big issue besides the fact that they're not 3D rendered. Let the work begin...
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Huh.. cool. I can scratch this off my to-do list.
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OK, I've been trying to add the 3rd dimension into those medals. I'm using Sketchup 8 for the models and Kerkythea for rendering. For some reason, I couldn't get Sketchup to work well with the imported curves, so I imported a picture and restarted from there. Here's my progress on the first one. I don't seem to find some good-looking easy-to-do ribbons, so I'll just leave those cartoonish ribbons for now and add them color and texture once they're upgraded (if they are). I've added some little details 'cause it just looked weird with perfectly shaped triangles everywhere.
Hope you like it!
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I could get used to that.
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You are definitely on the right track :yes:
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/me approves. :yes:
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I've been having problems with Sketchup, I don't know why it seems to mess with normals so that the final rendered image light effects look weird. But I think I've found a way to bypass this.
Now, some results:
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These are definately looking great.
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You got some nice looking medals there, nice work! :yes:
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Just showing some progress...
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Looks good!
(I'm not sure if some of those textures are place-holders or the real deal, but the olive branches might look better in army green rather than bright green. Also, the pink the nebula campaign star disagrees with me, but that's a personal thing :P)
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The textures are placeholders for now, but any input will be appreciate. The "pink center" on the nebula medal was suppose to be made of sugilite, a pink/purple semiprecious stone (I want it to be purple with white and darker stripes but I didn't find a good texture, I will make one in the future). I replace the old gold and purple because I thought it would be odd to see gold (or brass) mixed with some violet nonmetallic material in such a way.
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These are really cool! Keep it up!
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First, I want to thank you all for your comments. I'm posting the ones I've done so far but with textures right out sketchup. Do not worry, once I finish them all I will start a serious texturing effort but it's late and I'm tired right now.
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VERY nicely done all the way around.
Now we just need a better box to put them in and some testing to get them into the interface.
Though, the one with the Pegasus on it could probably use a touch of detail to the Pegasus itself, it might just be an angle issue though.
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Congrats, you got yourself a new fan! :yes:
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Super job! Couldn't have done a better job myself!
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Coming from mjn.mixael, that is high praise indeed.
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Super job! Couldn't have done a better job myself!
Wow... I've seen your work and I'm flattered. :D
Two new ones.
Edit: I've only achieved a Captain rank ingame, so I don't know how your rank is shown past that. I've looked it up in the wiki, but there's nothing there. Can someone post some screenshots?
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Allied defense citation is maroon, and seeing it in brown kinda threw me off :P. Everything else looks pretty awesome.
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U
Allied defense citation is maroon.
Ups, my bad... :rolleyes: I was convinced it was brown, but I'm looking at my reference screenshot and you're right.
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Well, I finished modelling the medals.
I will redo the box, this one is only temporary.
The SOC unit crest textures were inverted in Sketchup, it's already corrected but I rendered the older file by error, so don't worry.
Any suggestions will be appreciated. IMO the old box is odd, but I'll stick to it, unless someone gives me a better idea.
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Work on the materials; the medals don't really look metallic.
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Both SOC medals look really off. Everything else is great though.
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Those different colored pentagon devices on the cross bars, are for multiple awards right?
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Those look to be for decoration, attention to detail kind of thing, the repeat markers go on the ribbon
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Work on the materials; the medals don't really look metallic.
Those are not the final materials, and not even the best rendering options. That was only a quick snapshot. I will have to work a lot on this however, metallic textures are really difficult.
Both SOC medals look really off. Everything else is great though.
Well, I think both original SOC medals were just wrong. These ones will get better once they are properly textured. If they don't, I may change them a bit but I'm trying to stick to the original model as close as possible.
Those different colored pentagon devices on the cross bars, are for multiple awards right?
These is just a detail I added 'cause there's some triangular thing over there in the original medals. The repeat markers are on the ribbons, I'm posting a little pic to show.
Now, I still don't have an image for rank insignias after captain, but I've found some FS1 insignias somewhere on the web. I'm guessing :v-old: didn't change that. I'm attaching an image, please, can anyone comfirm that?
Also, I've redone the box, I can't get any closer to the original one, pics attached.
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The beef I have with the SOC medals is that you've taken originally slim medals and stretched them out a ton horizontally. They're altogether new medals now.
(To some degree, the same thing happened to the Wings medal. It almost looks as if you took the original image and stretched it to a 16:9 aspect or something)
If no one else minds, then I don't have any more to say, since the rest of the medals are simply spectacular at this point.
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The beef I have with the SOC medals is that you've taken originally slim medals and stretched them out a ton horizontally. They're altogether new medals now.
(To some degree, the same thing happened to the Wings medal. It almost looks as if you took the original image and stretched it to a 16:9 aspect or something)
Hm... I couldn't get what the problem was but I'm looking at the images from the wiki and my reference screenshot and they differ. My monitor is 16:9 so that must be the problem. My reference screenshot is stretched :banghead:. This should have no noticeable effect on the other medals 'cause they are mostly regular polygon stars. I will have to strecht back the Medal of Honor (wich always looked odd to me), the SOC medals and wing and rank insignias. Nevertheless, good call... :yes:
Edit: I'm hoping it's better now.
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Spectacular!
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Much better. Wings is perfect. (Thinking of making an olive-branch version as well? It's what the thing turns into when you get >1 Wings medal)
SOC Unit Crest is still kinda squishy, and the honor medal isn't tapered enough, but by and large they resemble the source material much more closely. Well done.
(Oh, and as something to think about much much later down the road, you could consider different options to render the medal board so that it doesn't look stretched regardless of the screen aspect.)
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(Oh, and as something to think about much much later down the road, you could consider different options to render the medal board so that it doesn't look stretched regardless of the screen aspect.)
No... I considered it for the mainhalls. It just gets way too complicated way too quickly. There's just too many different aspect ratios out there. I would recommend waiting for an interface rewrite to get widescreen renders. Otherwise we are going to end up with anamorphic stuff all over the place.
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Well, resolution-wise I'll stick to mjn.mixaels advise. If there are new resolutions added in the future I can always re-render the scene or I can share the original model to someone willing to do it, but he will have to find his way around spanish-named materials and there are 63 of them.
I think this model version is final, I'll just show the changed parts.
PS: I know the swords over the medal of honor are not symmetrical, but it's because one is crossed over the other as real swords would be.
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I finished texturing the empty box.
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Looks pretty good! The edges of all the border detail are awfully sharp, what would you think about chamfering those a bit?
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Do you mean the maroon, grey or the wooden parts or all of them?
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All of them, I think.
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Chamfered version. Looking at it, chamfers may be too big, but is this what you had in mind?
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It still seems a little polygonal to me, but it's getting better and better. I think that your work is awesome, specially the 2d medals. Congrats
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Well, this is what I've managed to do so far. Any suggestions? Constructive criticism is welcomed.
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Lookin good to me!
I don't really suggestions. I'd be good with how it is now with a better render/lighting.
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Hmm. Ace buttons look really angular to me. It doesn't bother me that much though.
The medal board needs bevels around the medal "dents". That way, the medals look recessed into the board somewhat.
Order of Galatea and Intelligence cross are a bit on the thick side. It exaggerates sharpness that wasn't there in retail.
SOC honor medal still looks kinda off, maybe because the bottom edge isn't sharp enough/is too round? (Maybe it's the weird-looking lion on it. I just noticed that the rear rump is quite big and sticks out a fair ways. If you shrink it and bring it into the body, it may look better proportioned AND give you enough space to tweak the silver bit of the medal.)
Otherwise, excellent.
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It works for me
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To think that you posted those images a while back, and now seeing these.
So glad you decided to step around here CAP'.
Kudos to u :yes:
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Hi guys, I'm a little occupied this weak with RL but I wanted to reply your posts. I don't think I will be working on this anytime this week, but don't worry, I will finish it. That's a promise.
@Rodo: Thanks, I like being here and helping out.
@Kolgena: When I was doing the box I did add some bevels around some medals but I didn't show that 'cause I didn't like the results and it was a lot of work to do. It looked over-the-top to me. As of the medals you mention, I'm not going to modified them, firstly because that means I have to redo them at Sketchup, reexport them and retexture them and I'm not totally sure of what you want and secondly 'cause I like them the way they are. I don't like the original SOC Service Medallion, which is one of the reasons why I started redoing this medals. I don't want to sound rude, and if I did, I apologize in advance.
@Mjn.Mixael: I will start tweaking lights positions and render options, but it's going to take a while. That's 'cause everytime I change light positions it just gets worse. I can't seem to find good light settings. Also, each medium quality rendering takes one hour or so in my poor laptop. I've calculated a rendering time of 6 days for a supposed "fine" quality. I will try to get more CPU power to do the final rendering, 'cause I need my laptop for work and can't afford to have it rendering for a week. Any lightening and rendering advise will be gratefully welcomed.
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Yeah, I totally see where you're coming from, and that's cool.
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@Mjn.Mixael: I will start tweaking lights positions and render options, but it's going to take a while. That's 'cause everytime I change light positions it just gets worse. I can't seem to find good light settings. Also, each medium quality rendering takes one hour or so in my poor laptop. I've calculated a rendering time of 6 days for a supposed "fine" quality. I will try to get more CPU power to do the final rendering, 'cause I need my laptop for work and can't afford to have it rendering for a week. Any lightening and rendering advise will be gratefully welcomed.
What if you gave one of us the file and have us render it instead?
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Who do you mean by "us"? You only need 1 person to render it. Also, I'd be hesitant to hand over the source files to a lot of people around here to get a render... As soon as you hand those out, you lose all control over your work. People complain about too many things and who knows what any given person might change without consent.
Perhaps that sounds a bit harsh... I'm just speaking as the artist I am... Sorry. :blah:
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Merely for rendering purposes of course, it need not be even someone who understands Sketchup or whatever program(s) he's using, I'm just saying that when it comes to the final render, he doesn't have to do it all by himself.
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It's me again... I'm back on working over this thing I and will try to make it all by myself, just for the sake of personal growth and learning. But, if I don't manage to do it after some trial and error, I will just put the models in here in some easy-to-share format and off it goes, somebody else will render it. I don't want to let all the previous work go to the sink. However, I've managed to get permission at work to use some unused CPU cycles over the weekend and I intent to used it. Hopefully, my next post will have good pics attached. :nod:
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Lattest atempt.
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We've got a winner! :yes:
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Wow! That get's an A+ from me!
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Will I get yelled at if I ask for an AO bake?
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Stick a fork in them, they're done.
And an AO bake? Why? I mean, I wouldn't mind seeing what one looks like, but...
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The medals themselves look very very CG. Some form of global illumination is the best way to get rid of that, I usually find.
(Also reflections off the shiny bits would be unbelievably badass, but probably not worth the effort :P)
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:yes: Great!
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Lattest atempt.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/QuantumDelta/fs2_open_3_6_13r_INF_SSE2-201012011-02-2620-51-40-44.jpg)(whinygitsaboutimagesbecausetheyusetinyscreens)
For comparison.
I quite like your Epsilon Pegasi medal, your Vasudan Imperium medal, your Nebula Star campaign medal (though the light is too bright from the lower right really), All the pins are perfect too, and your GTVA Legion of Honour (although the stars should probably be brighter)
Personally, though, your Meretorious Unit's star spokes are too thin at the edges, NTF Victory Campaign star looks kinda bland and again too brightly effected by the lighting, the reefs on the intel cross are a bit too small, and most importantly, the SoC Unit Crest is too 'primary colour' cartoony, which makes the previously best medal in retail right next to it - look the worst out of yours, the Service Medallion looks like it was designed by the person who designed big bird's looks, the Lion, although it LOOKs like it's more detailed; it's details are super-cartoony, and it's colour is off putting, if it was done right in that style it would still look bad, the coat of arms centre pieces are not meant to be on medals, and the base part of the medal looks like http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/shop/images/ct1004_spade.jpg <-- ...
So the good with the bad.
The Allied Defence Citation I'm not sure about, I'd like to see it closer up first, but it looks ok, kinda depends on if the galaxy-swirls are on the pins or not.
And I think I'd probably like the Order of the Galatea if it was a bit darker...
The Distinguished Flying Cross would also probably look fine without such highly contrasted colours because of the lighting..
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Pretty much agree with what QuantumDelta just said. I especially want to point out the SOC service medallion for some extra work, though: The lion just looks... wrong. It's supposed to look like it is made out of worked metal, and currently it looks like some paper decal glued on top. Additionally, the medal seems to have grown kinda fat - Using This Image (http://www.windrosearmoury.com/zc/images/armour_images/shields_heater.jpg) as a reference, the original is like the '11' version and your new one is the '2'. Personally, I prefer the original slimmer look.
Besides that, one thing you don't seem to have worried about yet is having the medals sunk into appropriately-shaped slots in the surface, rather than just resting on top of it. I realize you've probably just decided to do that last, when the medals are all done, but thought I'd mention it just in case.
That said, overall excellent work on this, and I have no doubt that with a bit more effort you'll get them all just right :)
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Well... I posted all those WIP pics a while ago so that I would have all this kind of problems solved weeks ago, BEFORE I went on rendering these things. But I am a bit perfectionist so I will agree on some of those points.
0- It's a 1076x786 image 'cause that's all the game can handle. There are no bigger interface images, just stretched ones.
1- the SOC Medallion. I'll remake the shield in the SOC medallion, since too much people seams to have a problem with it. But I don't understand what kind of lion they would like. The original just looks like a standing baboon to me. I like the one I have, maybe it's not perfect, but I'm pretty sure it's the best I can do. It's a shield with a rampart lion on it. I doubt a real lion could get in that position. So, what kind of lion do you think it may be? Also, if it was a plain lion over the shield that would really look like a sticker but if you look at the previous pics you should see that it's not the case. It's the camera angle that makes it look like plain.
2- the SOC Unit Crest. I will desaturate the colors. That's easy.
3- the Meritorious Unit. It's a star. It should be pointy. But I'll see what I can do.
4- the NTF Victory Campaign. I'll make the Perseus darker. That should help, but there's not much more that I can do.
5- the Defense Citation. It has 4 golden swirls.
6- the infamous bevels around medals. I'll try to do them, but I've already stated that I don't like them very much.
Finally, I'll work on this for this week, but the next weekend I'll do the final renders and that's it.
I know that any change is problematic 'cause people like what they had or think that the new stuff could be better, so you can never make everybody happy. But I want people to consider that this is my work, and I will do it in a way that I'm happy with it. If anyone thinks they could do it better, just do it.
I hope I didn't step on anyone's toes, it's not my intention to offend anyone...
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Your lion is not proportioned correctly (not meaning to be harsh, but it's kinda the case here) Look at the proportions in the head/neck, the lower torso, and the legs. It looks stretchy or blobby, and is what's making it appear more like a caricature rather than serious medal material. You don't want real-life lion proportions, but you could aim for something like these:
(http://www.bellchamber.net/catalogue/pendants/PendantRampartLionCrest.jpg)(http://www.thelionscall.com/decorating/patterns/lion_pattern.gif)(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PpWqQu1ffwA/Re3uN31lxqI/AAAAAAAAAAU/DwpTcIP71n8/s200/5020580-AT%2520Small.jpg)
(Also, if there's supposed to be the lion's shadow somewhere in there, get rid of it).
Also, I think the bevels are best handled by normal maps. Modeling them in might be more difficult and more prone to look awkward.
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Cap's lion much more resembles a lion you would see on a coat of arms, and in fact looks very similar to the two real-life images above. The one in game is more proportioned like a real lion.
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I meant that in CAP's lion, one hind leg is much thicker than the other and are of different lengths, the head is the size of of one of the front paws, which are on limbs too short and wide compared to the hind limbs. Also, the way the torso, shoulders, and neck join together doesn't actually make any sense.
I think the best approach to remaking the lion (if at all) is to take a template similar to the one I posted and work on the details from there.
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Here's the one I used as reference. I see what you mean, yours are slimmer. The one in the middle looks quite nice but it has no details, and my imagination and drawing skills are not good enougth to make a detailed thing from that.
Modelling the bevels will be easier than using a normal map 'cause there are bumps for medals to fit already modelled, but they're so tight that once the medals are on, they are unnoticeable. Making a 30° or 45° bevel from there is doable, but will take time. Fitting a normal map over the model will take longer and I think it won't fit as well.
I guess that a slimmer lion is doable, but it will take longer and will probably look as plain as this one. I may give it a try, depending on my available time.
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Might wanna wait for the 70th Blue Lion's texture from HT first to do that one, though. Looks like a recolor in retail, anyway.
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Hi guys!
If anyone wondered I'm still here but I've been having a lot of work in RL so there is no much progress to show. And all the magnificent work that's been going on here just made me try to make everything better.
Now, it may have took me too long to realise it but I've learned how to use VPVIEW (yes, I'm still a newbie :nervous:) and now I'm using the original VP images to get the medals the way they should be.
I haven't change the lion, but I'll think about it once I'm done with the rest now that I have a clear frontal view of it.
Here's what I've (re)done so far.
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*nods approvingly*
Especially the order of the galatea <3
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Looking good/better!
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Well, I like all the versions, just thought I would say. Also, I dont see the lion as a huge problem.
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These are excellent. I agree on the Lion medal have a "thinner" feel, as I remember noticing that detail when I first played FS2. Keep up the fantastic work!
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New update. Thanks for the approval so far. It's too late to work now so I'll leave the NTF Campaign Victory Star for later.
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I love how faithful you are to the original designs. Many many likes.