Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: StarSlayer on February 06, 2011, 06:42:55 am
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I'm toying with trying it out. One of the instructors at my fencing school is involved with it and from what I understand the group he runs with seem pretty hardcore about it (they apparently do everything pretty much by the book).
On the plus side
- it might be a fun competitive game.
- get to learn and practice skill set and tactics that really isn't available other then military or law enforcement setting
- More productive then playing a FPS
the cons are pretty much wrapped up in the fact that I'm uncomfortable with the idea that it seems like much of the community dress up like they're in the Corps or something. Sure when your a little kid dressing up in BDUs is kinda fun and given the nature of the game wearing military esq equipment is probably essential but dressing up in exact 75th Ranger kit or the like doesn't sit well with me. It's a bit pricey, nothing outside the scope of my funds but still an investment. Also it would be taking up a time slot I could probably use for something else, like indoor rock climbing.
So anybody have any feecback? Fun tactical game or a bunch of geeks playing Army?
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I was a paintballer and a mil-laser sports bloke (also had some very basic experience with mucking around with BB guns as a kid :P ), but in my opinion, this kind of stuff is really fun. Good teamwork and leadership activity when the paint/light/ballbearings are flying and it's down to you to think of a way to bring the fight to them without getting yourself slapped up in the process.
Even if hand signals, understanding the dynamic of urban warfare and yelling things that don't make sense to normal people at the top of your lungs aren't things you fancy, it's at least a good sport to keep quite fit (though by the sounds of it, you have that done) and it's pretty fulfilling after you've won a game - not because you have a twitchy trigger finger, but because you and the guys were able to work as a team and execute a strategy.
Are you able to sit in on a game as a field observer or anything? That might give you a good opportunity to see how it all works and see if this particular group are hardcore people who also get some fun out of it, or a bunch of nerds in BDUs. :P
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Everything above...
I prefer paintball though. The constant risk of painful running into painful encounters is somehow more exciting for me. :drevil: I'm not saying that airsoft won't sometimes hurt... it just that paintballs hurt a lot more.
BTW, hitting someone before they even know where you are is also immensely satisfying. :nervous:
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I have 10 different kinds and types of airsoft guns just so everybody can play if someone doesn't have their own. It's a fun and cheap game to play. To get into the game it can cost as little as $10 for your first gun.
How i play...
I have a variety of high - low end guns. Every round people play, everyone switches to a different gun so everyone has to change their strategy (it does suck when the same person keeps conquering every match with the same gun, i switched this out for balance, fairness, and for a system that promotes learning how to use all guns, and favors those with skill and strategy). Also everyone gets two clips worth of bb's only along with a one hit one kill melee weapon. Everyone needs to get hit 5 times before they die, unless they're melee'd (5hp because i'm usually playing the game with kids, teenagers, and people my age). These requirements have made all game types for airsoft from average to very very fun (it also uses less bb's, and people who ran out of bb's can still be in the game).
For dress, anyone is allowed to wear whatever they want, but it must include goggles and a face mask. Face protection is primary so you don't like shoot out someones eye, get shot in the lip, chin, or have a bb go up your nose. I don't see why you couldn't go into the game with goggles, face protection, any kind of pants, and a jacket. Who cares about all the other kids wearing camo and all this nice stuff. Certain kind of clothing shouldn't be a requirement. Just the necessary equipment to keep people from getting hurt should be the requirement.
Of which case, a pair of work safety goggles or ski goggles goes a long way. And the easiest face mask is a winter beanie pulled down over your heard with a slit big enough for your goggles to fit through (if you put on a hat first, you can get a hat visor and goggles through the slit). No mouth or nose holes, you'll feel sorry for those if you add them. That is effective budget face protection. And of course any clothing you wear, make sure it's nothing heavy and dense. That would slow you down, and make you less aware of the fact if you were getting hit with bb's.
If the people ***** that you don't have the right uniform, then change their minds, it's not a requirement (or at least shouldn't be one).
For beginner guns, i have a few recommendations.
(http://cdn.pyramydair.com/images/47952-clear-mini-uzi.jpg)
This seems real dinky, but it has a decent rate of fire. The range is about 24 feet at 180 fps, it's easy to use, you can reload it fast. The range isn't great, but this sucker is deadly in the right hands. Strategy is to be a pretty ballsy by going to your opponents, or trick them into coming to you. Also a great gun to hunker down with if you're hidden in the bushes. The main point, once you get someone in this guns range of coverage, you will take someone down fast. This gun can also be modified to be more powerful which will extend it's range.
(http://static.zoovy.com/img/zephyrsports/-/airsoft/crossman/crosman_full_auto_electronic_pulse_r73_airsoft_rifle_black_clear.jpg)
This one is less dinky and is an actual rifle size. It has greater rate of fire, a range of 40 feet at 250 fps. The butt of the gun protrudes and collapses in based on long range and short range combat. The magazine is dinky as it is the scope, and the scope is just a hole that lines up with the sights. The scope does hold 500 bb's (no need to reload), and the scope hole really does help with aiming actually. Newbies really like this gun since it's an all around decent gun to use in airsoft, is easy to use, and performs about how people expect it too. Negative side is it's hopper gravity fed (so many dumbasses couldn't figure out what i meant by gravity fed hopper, they still tried to shoot the gun upside down or pointed straight up in the air, and then i'd need to show them....uuuugh, dumb people are dumb....the word gravity was descriptive enough). But, since no ones shoots guns upside down and that shooting clouds in the sky is dumb, the gravity feed hopper is really a non issue. This gun can also be modified to be more powerful which will extend it's range.
Grab any pistol you want as long as it's 250 fps or up. I grabbed a pistol that does 350 fps, that sucker hurts. I also don't recommend the use of guns that exceed 450 fps. Anything beyond 450 fps, and you might as well be playing the game with a red ryder bb gun that shoots those real metal bb's. 450-90 fps is a good maximum and minimum for power of guns in use. Don't go to expensive, stick with manual spring and all electric airsoft guns. Manual spring you just get some bb's and you can play (i don't care what others say, in the right hands, a manual spring gun can have a decent fire rate, and automatic fire is not what wins all games). All electric you plug in and charge the battery, usually good for one whole day of airsoft before next recharge. There is CO2 powered guns, but more expensive.
I do have others. (http://www.elec-intro.com/EX/05-14-17/m14-airsoft-sniper-rifle-airsoft.jpg)
This is a decent mid to high end sniper rifle. I cut the flash hider off (it's pointless since it's not a real gun), painted the tip of the gun orange (so people know it's not a real gun), and cut off the butt of the gun (it essentially has a little pistol grip on it) all to cut down on the length of the loooong gun so it can be whipped out fast for short and long range. Shoots clear through aluminum cans, range of 50 feet.
(http://www.kapowwe.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/l-96-sniper-airsoft.jpg)
Purely a long range gun. 460 fps, the only gun that exceeds 450 fps by an allowable margin. Long range, can still aim it accurately without a scope. I hated using this one of mine, i let other people go for it. Which means other assholes getting good at shooting me in the trigger finger.
(http://www.bbgunworld.com/store/usrimage/affn90tr.jpg)
Another high end gun. 400 fps with decent range. Eats through ammo fast on automatic, so i use semi auto a lot (other people using it are content with running out of bb's faster during the match with limited bb's as a requirement). I had a tank top on one day and got sprayed with 5 shots from this gun....and son of a *****! It will tear an aluminum can to pieces in seconds.
Fun game, there's plenty of times where i have the mini uzzi and i'm needing to take down the guy with the p90. Or, i'll have the pistol and that's when the game gets really hard. I'm also considering letting people use nerf guns if they can carry them into the game with the weapon they were switched too. It also helps to have some good arenas to play in. Junk yards, patches of forest, etc. If these people wont play with you because you don't have a uniform...then i guess shoot one of them and run?
Lastly, guns can be had for cheap (you really dont need to invest much money at all for your first time getting into airsoft). Check into my recommendations for cheap guns for noobs to start out with. I recommend that mini uzzi and m4 big time (or have a mini uzzi and cheap pistol weapon combo). The uzzi can be had for like $12, any pistol $12 or cheaper, but i'd spend $15-$20 to get something decent as a fall back side arm in the beginning. Later in life, get that m4 (that crossman m4 is sort of like how comfy, effective, and easy to use the apollo in fs1 was). Then later check out a good sniper rifle. I recommend that m14 since it's a great sniper rifle, and it can be customized to be made smaller. Bb's are cheap (most guns you buy come with a sizable amount of bb's too)!!!! I bet you have clothing that you could wear for this game, a winter beanie you can modify into a face mask, a pair of safety or ski goggles laying around, and $25 or less (if you have the money for it, i would get the crossman m4 first).
Go for it starslayer. Clothing is a non issue, and the only funds i see you needing to spend is just on your first gun.
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I'm toying with trying it out. One of the instructors at my fencing school
You fence, so do I
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I was in the same situation as the op except for paintball. We had a youth group thing some years back where
one of the guys worked part time at a paintball field. I ended up going after some consideration and research.
I'll keep this short though...
Pros:
Taking out the entire opposite team myself including the guy that worked there - first round.
Going head to head with the hardcore "camo" guys - and winning the match by a hair.
Exercise.
Experience.
Pizza.
Cons:
Cruddy rental equipment.... cheapest of the cheap misfiring junk.
Forrest full of large spiders! (they had a sizable forested area)
Rules not being clear or people not observing them.
Run down facilities.
Dropping great quantities of ammo on the ground by mistake.
So in the end was it worth it. Yeah I'd say it was. If I had a chance to try it again, I'd go. It was fun.
Sure, I'd rather go somewhere else with better facilities, and people that communicated/had headsets.
I walked away with under a dozen golfball size bruises, but I earned em, and certainly gave some in return.
In your case it looks like you've got an opportunity to get with a potentially serious group. I'd try to sit in or
at least go for an introductory type thing. See if it is a group you fit in with, or want to expand into more.
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dude i want that p-90.
i have a wal-mart springer pistol that i had some fun with shooting at targets. it still works, but is in pretty rough shape. not very durable, but VERY strong for $35, shooting 315 fps. i accidentally shot myself in the finger with it, with a folded over towel in between, and my finger was still numb for 30 minutes. i don't know of anyone or anywhere to actually play matches or anything. i kinda want to get a full metal gas blowback one to screw around with.
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*snip*
If you don't like the forest setting you can try speedball or the equivalent. You need less ammo and also drop less of it.
If really can't stand rentals you can probably buy a good half mechanical paintball gun for around $800. No reason to go too fancy.
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That p90 is trusty and heavy duty. Cheap guns aren't too hard to keep in good condition and working order either. I got rid of it because it's too short of a gun for my liking. You really got to squish yourself up on it when you hold it correctly (just a little too compact). Other than that, it did kick ass. I let other people use it all the time instead. I preferred that m4 i showcased compared to the p90.
It's not too hard to find people to play airsoft with if you're the airsoft means (that's how i play to make things a lot easier). Other than that, just grab your friends, and see what happens.
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*snip*
If you don't like the forest setting you can try speedball or the equivalent. You need less ammo and also drop less of it.
If really can't stand rentals you can probably buy a good half mechanical paintball gun for around $800. No reason to go too fancy.
It was a first time thing. We mostly did do speedball with inflatables, had 3 areas for it.
The folks at the site loved to sell you a case of 500~1000 balls, and not anything smaller. So we topped
off everyone's markers... which loved to empty out the back anytime someone raised the marker to show they were
"out" - the plastic flaps on the reservoir were about as tough as the lid of a Pringles can.
Even a regular Tippman would have been better. these things were hot pink fake chrome coated, typically didn't eject a ball when
you fired, and were inaccurate as all could be. Might have had more luck with a slingshot.
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You probably shouldn't have topped out on at get-go then. Made that mistake myself my first time with crappy loaders, too. Not only did the balls open a closed lid and fall out, but they also clogged up the marker. :lol:
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If looking into paintball, keep in mind, it is way pricier. It is fun, and it is expensive. The one reason i liked airsoft is because you can spend $10 and be able to play (you also don't need to worry about CO2, i live in an area where you have to go to another city to fill up your tanks).
The best areas for matches are the ones you find. Why pay to go into a big building set up for it? Find an awesome area of forest or a junkyard.
My friends family had a big open field with tall grass with lots of dead cars, and a small patch of forest that was one third of an acre. But, that forest patch had fencing, a network of tree houses going from tree to tree, lots of trees, and a couple of mini structures (i can thank my friends little brother for his tree house craze). Then again, i do live in alaska, lots of forest, but i'm sure finding an awesome area to play can be found anywhere. :)
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not anywhere. running around shooting people with replica weapons is rather frowned upon in urban/suburban settings.
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Gee klaustrophobia, i guess my talk of looking for a good spot and an example of such didn't give off the secluded-where-people-wont-panic-at-what-are-possibly-real-looking-guns vibe. It doesn't hurt to look, but you say it as though it is. This isn't a not anywhere thing (as you say), and i'm sorry you see it that way. After all, if a spot can't be found, it can't be found and people go else where. But, since this opinion is that it can't be played anywhere, then don't waste your time in this thread, because others do play. People play this game outside all the time, even in backyards, but usually, it's after a good spot was found where no outsider confusion will happen to make said outsider panic and call the cops. For some people, their determination just leads them to play in their backyards, while i have a preference for playing at my friends house where they have 5 acres of land and lots of forest. Do you not live in a safe neighborhood?
But, thank you for bringing up another point, that of confusion. It does help to buy airsoft guns that are unmistakebly not real looking.
(http://static.zoovy.com/img/zephyrsports/-/airsoft/crossman/crosman_full_auto_electronic_pulse_r73_airsoft_rifle_black_clear.jpg)
Unmistakebly not a real fire arm...even from a distance.
(http://www.bbgunworld.com/store/usrimage/affn90tr.jpg)
Aside from the orange tip, it does look real; especially from a distance (take a good look at the clip on the gun too). Most people are dumbasses and saw off the orange tips, i don't recommend that, and only saying i don't recommend that because people will hop in here and not understand my usage of the word "dumbass" for people who do it.
This reason alone i traded or sold my airsoft for guns that look more fake like the m4 above. Reducing outsider confusion is paramount for me when playing airsoft, because that does increase safety. Where to play the game, and what to use is a big thing. Doing something dumb like playing airsoft or paintball in the streets of a neighborhood would make neighbors panic and or make a cop whip out a real gun because they're not sure of what's going on.
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jesus christ dude. where in my post did i say not to do it? if you took that meaning from my two sentences, well, i can't help that.
and by the way, clear plastic ones don't look real, but that might not stop people from freaking out. my high school was put on lockdown for hours because someone saw one of the JROTC with a solid white plastic drill rifle. i still wouldn't feel comfortable using them around other people.
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Don't mind S-99, he's
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jesus christ dude. where in my post did i say not to do it? if you took that meaning from my two sentences, well, i can't help that.
and by the way, clear plastic ones don't look real, but that might not stop people from freaking out. my high school was put on lockdown for hours because someone saw one of the JROTC with a solid white plastic drill rifle. i still wouldn't feel comfortable using them around other people.
The moment you said no for playing anywhere such as this.
not anywhere. running around shooting people with replica weapons is rather frowned upon in urban/suburban settings.
If you can't play the game anywhere, it means not to play. That's where i gathered that. I know the transparent ones don't look real (and people will over react to them). But, when i keep saying secluded spots to play, i usually mean not around other people like i've been insinuating and this time for the third time. All i've been hearing from you was not here, not there, not anywhere, and what about other people not playing the game. Well, for the third time, find a secluded spot, one that's good for playing, one that will not have any outsider/bystanders that don't what's going on around.
Are we having a loss of communication or am i just not understandable? That's what this is about. How many times do you need to mention the same thing, and how many times do i? If it's going to be like that, then there's a break down of communication somewhere. I'm gathering it's that you didn't quite understand what i wrote earlier for why this is going back and forth.
Don't mind S-99, he's.....
......trying to figure out what's up.
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that was not really what I had in mind no
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You guys misunderstand each other way too much.
Anyway I can see how obviously clear plastic parts and bright colors might help, but even people still managed to get freaked out... especially by paintball markers.
And I just remembered this. :lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ssYezFw_Qs&feature=related
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Airsoft is fun, I used to play it a lot. I'm not into the whole THIS IS THE REAL ARMY AND THAT IS FUN BECAUSE WE ARE PRETENDING TO BE SOLDIERS SALUTE ME WHEN YOU WALK PAST ME MAGGOT stuff. I know a lot of airsoft players get a kick out of pretending to be in the military, but I don't. I'm running around with a plastic gun that shoots BBs at people, I'm going to leave it at that.
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Don't see the appeal in that either. It's good enough to have a set of tactics that are actually useful while playing.
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I use airsoft guns to practice real guns, but entirely in a range setting (basement).
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i have no experience thus far with real guns, but i'd have to imagine it's entirely different from airsoft. if i'm wrong, i guess i have a little bit of a leg up. the sounds i assume to be gunshots i heard the other night suggest to me it might be wise to venture into weapon ownership.
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Well, airsoft won't prepare you for the recoil and noise of a real gun AFAIK, but it can still help you practice proper technique (not squeezing the trigger, not anticipating the shot, etc.).
As for home defense, I hear the best thing to use is a 12 gauge with buckshot, since it will do plenty of damage to an intruder without requiring you to be that accurate (which you won't be if you're scared awake at 4 AM or whatever). Plus it's not going to overpenetrate and hit your neighbors and their neighbors like a rifle would. Or you know, just get a bat or something.
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Airsoft is fun, I used to play it a lot. I'm not into the whole THIS IS THE REAL ARMY AND THAT IS FUN BECAUSE WE ARE PRETENDING TO BE SOLDIERS SALUTE ME WHEN YOU WALK PAST ME MAGGOT stuff. I know a lot of airsoft players get a kick out of pretending to be in the military, but I don't. I'm running around with a plastic gun that shoots BBs at people, I'm going to leave it at that.
That was my real concern with it. I find the whole idea of acting like you're in the service bit disrespectful. It's basically a sport and while wearing some tactical gear is beneficial to playing if your trying to dress up exactly like your in the Marines or something you need to get your head out of your ass. My interest was more in line with learning how to properly bound, stack up and room clear and apply them in a competitive environment. My friend at Kendo pointed me to the MA airsoft site and it looks like they put on some pretty cool events. Unfortunately it looks like his team's schedule conflicts with riding lessons so I'll probably put this on the back burner.
That said I might still pick up a gas 1911 to practice with similar to Inquisitor.
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I find the whole idea of acting like you're in the service bit disrespectful. It's basically a sport and while wearing some tactical gear is beneficial to playing if your trying to dress up exactly like your in the Marines or something you need to get your head out of your ass.
I agree, that level of reenactment is a bit far for me. I'm pretty fine sticking to some comfortable cams or prebriefed team colours + helmet and tac vest for protection and utility. I'm not a digger and if you want to be one that bad, just f*cking enlist.
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Well, airsoft won't prepare you for the recoil and noise of a real gun AFAIK, but it can still help you practice proper technique (not squeezing the trigger, not anticipating the shot, etc.).
Didn't help me... then again I've never been particularly good at airsoft. :lol:
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Dry firing exercises. Not jump through the window Rambo practice. I also use them in firearm safety lasses I teach before handing the students real guns.
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Sorry I wasn't trying to infer you were jumping through windows. We had an area setup in the basement to shoot BB guns at targets, I figured you were using air soft guns to practice shooting at home and not burning through expensive ammunition. Like I said I'm not particularly interested in practicing Rambo unless its in a structured team environment and that simply doesn't fit into my schedule right now. I might like to pick one up to practice shooting targets though.
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The good ones can build good trigger discipline etc, just like any airgun. Invest in a full weight, blow back model, some of them simulate about 1/3 recoil, which helps the whole exercise.
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I had no idea there were airguns that simulated recoil
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Blowback. Some LEO simulators use CO2 blowback for recoil on some laser based setups. Same thing on some airsoft and action air guns.
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Good to hear, the one I was looking at was an all metal gas 1911. It received consistently good reviews and to see it dissembled aside from the hop up and other airsoft specific parts you could almost think it was made by Kimber.
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Many of those have all the right hardware, they take down like the real thing, they reload like the real thing, the present like the real thing, so, if nothing else, it will feel familiar if you ever get the real thing :)
Make sure it has a working grip safety if you go the 1911 route. Most of hte all metal gas ones also lock the slide back when you run out of ammunition, you want that as well.
I got (and regretted) a fancy 1911 airsoft. I should have gotten one that looked like my real 1911. Too "cool" looking and I was weak.
My commander frame 1911:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_mmG3hr30cSM/TF2iqkPzYuI/AAAAAAAABJY/6qm_adxGMkE/s400/2010-08-07%2014.11.02_Newtonville_Massachusetts_US.jpg)
My 1911 with my target grips:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_mmG3hr30cSM/TRAFtiM2_II/AAAAAAAABe0/fTgJvPEi1ks/s400/IMG_20101220_202443.jpg)
And my airsoft 1911 that I use in safety classes:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_mmG3hr30cSM/SuNay_BnBWI/AAAAAAAAASo/hMOt0oOA2BI/s400/CIMG2854.JPG)
Its decent, it fits in my 1911 holsters, and it has a decent recoil. Green gas annoys me so I picked up a couple CO2 magazines for it.
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The 1911 I'm looking at has a working beaver tail, an ambidextrous safety and the slide locks back. What's the problem with green gas? The model I'm looking at seems to take green, red and propane. From my cursory research it seems that C02 is cited as putting a bit of strain on the weapon.
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Nothing, I just find it a PITA :)
YMMV :)
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Airsoft guns are a great way to learn how to operate a real fire arm. Even the cheapos are still gun replicas despite even how crappy looking.
A lot of the guns have the safety switch in the same place as the real thing, put a projectile into the chamber like the real thing, pull the trigger like the real thing, and holds bb's in the clip like the real thing (although in a lot of airsoft guns, the clip is what is different a lot of times compared to the actual gun it's a replica of, for the most part, a lot of airsoft guns use clips that are like normal ones as compared to something funky like the speedload clip, or a clip that holds 180 rounds). A part from what other people mentioned that you do miss compared to a real fire arm such as recoil is the weight of the actual gun. A high end airsoft replica ought to do justice for that though from what i read of other people's responses and pictures shown.
I never got into the game for simulated military. That just doesn't sound like fun really. Getting normal people in there wearing whatever they want with the appropriate protective gear for some skirmishes and other game types is less rigid and more fun (in my opinion).