Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nuke on March 10, 2011, 12:56:58 pm
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seems handheld energy weapons arent as far off as we think they are. this one not only looks badass but it also puts holes through things.
http://hackaday.com/2011/03/10/youll-shoot-your-eye-out-with-a-1mw-laser-pulse-pistol/
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Wow. :D
That's full of win. Now all we need are full-sized lasguns.
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I wonder how kevlar holds up to that....
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Wow... nice!
Wanna see what happens when used on flesh :drevil:
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Yeah let see it on a pig cadaver before we color it black and call her Winona. :P
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/me starts looking up the hills for the avalanche of legislation that will soon land banning these things in civilian hands
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Oh no
This really shouldn't be on the civilian markets. Seriously. It shouldn't be even possible to build these things. Leave that stuff to us.
It will not kill anyone, but it can remove the eyesight of the person who uses it, or the eyesight of the target in less than blink of an eye.
This is not going to end well.
EDIT:
Never thought I would say this, but there really shouldn't be Class III or Class IV laser devices freely available anywhere near to general public. This is really something that should be eliminated by legislation, and disregarding this will very likely lead to general public health issues.
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Never thought I would say this, but there really shouldn't be Class III or Class IV laser devices freely available anywhere near to general public. This is really something that should be eliminated by legislation, and disregarding this will very likely lead to general public health issues.
Meh. If you think about it, the huuuge volume of things that could lead to public health issues that are freely available to the general public makes class IV lasers seem like fluffy teddy bears that take thousands of dollars and 70 hours to become remotely dangerous.
Let me list some. Each of these things is pretty harmless just sitting on it's own, until it's thrown in somebody's eyes or combined with certain other objects:
darts
pesticides
herbicides
fertilizers
just about every cleaning product, especially notable is
Drano
kitchen knives
automobiles
gasoline
oil
plastic bags
rope
oh yeah, firearms (restricted, but still quite available)
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I suppose it's like all things, it depends whose hands it gets into. Many people can own dangerous stuff and treat it with the respect it deserves. Others will do a Darwin, and that's fine in my books. What worries me are the third group, those who, in their idiocy, harm other people, those are the real risks.
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The difference between a laser pistol and anything else on that list is that there is absolutely no reason to have one around the house than for ****s and giggles.
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that take thousands of dollars and 70 hours to become remotely dangerous.
How many development cycles will it take before this is more widely available?
Remember the very computers we sit at are the result of development of machines developed in the 80s and cost thousands of pounds and many production hours to create, with military interest in this technology you have a global market for their development with big business interested so how long in countries like america will it be before you see "civilian" HK, FN, Colt, etc versions of this thing's technological decedents on the racks of a gun store alongside ballistic hunting rifles and hand guns? in 25 years we have gone from typical PCs costing £2000+ new to less than £600 for a typical PC today what will we see with these? development wont be as fast I suspect but it could easily happen in our life times.
that point about availability in gun shops got me thinking about something else, today we can investigate gun crime by matching bullets to the weapon that fired them giving a solid link between weapon and round, this will not be so easy for a laser
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The difference between a laser pistol and anything else on that list is that there is absolutely no reason to have one around the house than for ****s and giggles.
Exactly. I can't see a single reason why a normal person should have a need for Class III or Class IV devices.
Be advised that selling that thing is likely bordering illegal in EU.
And for a little bit of ranting, I just can't ****ing understand why I'm supposed to obey the eye safety regulations when designing stuff for public use when something like the link above is suddenly OK? I can imagine the **** storm that will still happen if a certain Class I (= eye safe) device ever penetrates the consumer markets - tons of people will complain that it's still not safe enough, while public itself is allowed to do something like that what everybody sees is dangerous but everybody goes like it's his right to do that.
And yes, I have a Class IVB laser device (750 mW continuous @ 650 nm) at my work. I couldn't even think of bringing it home to just use it for **** & giggles. Everybody who has had the distinct pleasure of using it has been pretty much scared ****less, even with mandatory eye protection.
What's next, a CO2 laser rifle?
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that point about availability in gun shops got me thinking about something else, today we can investigate gun crime by matching bullets to the weapon that fired them giving a solid link between weapon and round, this will not be so easy for a laser
Right on target too.
The worst thing is that it's impossible to know quickly from which direction did this one come from if it hit somebody - nor will there be any way to tell quickly if somebody just got sick or got hit by a laser. There will be no visual cues or anything, and no normal glass will absorb 1.054 1.064 µm. This is a dream toy for idiots when they know they can get away with it.
EDIT: Crap, can't recall Nd-Yag base wavelengths
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Yeah let see it on a pig cadaver before we color it black and call her Winona. :P
You win the thread. :yes:
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so, you all want to make it impossible for me to develop and manufacture high precision cutting tools from my home? I'm fairly sure if I put my mind to it and devoted a lot of money I could make a realy cool fabricator that took wood and carved 3d models out of it using some sort of design software.
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i wouldn't mind having a 50 watt laser cutter machine. so i dont think id like to see a total illegalization of high-power laser products because some asshat hacked together a laser pistol. still il admit that this is not a safe idea, and its only a matter of time before someone commits a crime with a laser weapon. i just dont want to see a bunch of legitimate laser products banned for this. its still pretty badass that someone managed to make such a laser compact enough to be handheld and run on batteries.
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Well, the question will come down to will it happen before or after the market is flooded with high power laser tools from sears and DeWalt. If it's after then the people committing the crimes will get arrested, if it's before then no lasers for us.
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Right about now shielding would come in handy...
1. Yay for laser guns!
2. oh ****, anybody know the range? If it's too long then we've got an "ideal" sniper weapon... I'm not even sure an NV goggle can pick up on the firing of that thing.
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You know, with all these technology going on, I'm pretty much doubting that 300+ years of military technology plus the fact that one is facing a foe that could cause his extinction certainly doesn't equate to FreeSpace tech.
Of course, it's just Science Fiction, so why argue?
I'm no weapons expert, but shouldn't all these "badass" weapons actually be put to use and produced? Or perhaps they just scare the **** out of nations, and incites violence.
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To be honest, a flash grenade would probably do the job just as effectively for far less price. In my opinion, Lasers are probably better suited for their current role in Anti-Air and Anti-Missile tech than Anti-personnel. Any kind of laser with an effective range similar to a good Sniper Rifle would require a heavy power-source, with the added disadvantage that, other than the eyes, the Human body is probably more vulnerable to high-velocity metal than a laser.
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well, you know it wouldn't need to have a continuous beam, it would just need to build a large charge in a capacitor, you wouldn't need a hefty power supply for that.
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the Human body is probably more vulnerable to high-velocity metal than a laser.
There are cases where a sniper for example shoots to kill and where sniper shoots to incapacitate. Assuming that a laser weapon such as this has long enough range to be viable as a sniper rifle, then the fact that you can essentially instantly hit targeted spot is a huge bonus compared to a bullet where you need to calculate in trajectory and wind among other things. When shooting to kill, sniper could target heart or head, having a laser bolt penetrate your heart or brain is going to kill you as much as a bullet, in this case hit is pretty much guaranteed though.
The only question is how much protection you need to protect yourself from such a military grade weapon. If you need far less protection against a laser weapon than conventional, then it's probably not going to be viable for use in military. Police forces such as SWAT and equivalent would be another matter though, those snipers could essentially disarm and cripple their targets with pinpoint accuracy and no loss of life.
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No sniper shoots to incapacitate. Ever. If he does he is a discredit to his profession and a danger to others. You don't blast the guns of out of their hands, even if you can. There are too many risks involved. You don't know he has only one weapon. You can't reliably render him quadriplegic (which would be the only real safe method of incapacitation) for only a short period of time, or indeed reliably do so without killing him.
I've seen the math laid out and the energy costs for a projectile will probably always be lower than the energy costs for an energy weapon. What lasers have going for them is accuracy and reaction time, which as Flip noted are really desirable in some fields, less so in others.
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No sniper shoots to incapacitate. Ever. If he does he is a discredit to his profession and a danger to others. You don't blast the guns of out of their hands, even if you can. There are too many risks involved. You don't know he has only one weapon. You can't reliably render him quadriplegic (which would be the only real safe method of incapacitation) for only a short period of time, or indeed reliably do so without killing him.
Sorry, wrong. LEO snipers are primarily trained to shoot to incapacitate.
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Also, it'd need to be an invisible beam, last thing you need on a foggy day is a big "I am here!" line back to where you are sniping from ;)
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So, now that lasers have been weaponized, do they fall under the right to bear arms in the US? Because, frankly, if they'll let their people have Assault rifles, this is peanuts.
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Also, it'd need to be an invisible beam, last thing you need on a foggy day is a big "I am here!" line back to where you are sniping from ;)
This is the bit where the second fire mode is more like a combination of TerSlash and AAA :P
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So, now that lasers have been weaponized, do they fall under the right to bear arms in the US? Because, frankly, if they'll let their people have Assault rifles, this is peanuts.
Good question, i imagine that what you would have when these things do reach life threatening output is a highly accurate weapon with the effect of a non removable flash suppressor with only a small amount of noise when fired compared to a firearm.
going back to my point about the matching of bullets to weapon, I suppose you could fit it with a "kill cam" and an integrated memory, I know disabling the camera wouldn't be to difficult to someone who is determined but it would be a start
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Sorry, wrong. LEO snipers are primarily trained to shoot to incapacitate.
But when they're called on to shoot it's not useful. :P
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so, you all want to make it impossible for me to develop and manufacture high precision cutting tools from my home? I'm fairly sure if I put my mind to it and devoted a lot of money I could make a realy cool fabricator that took wood and carved 3d models out of it using some sort of design software.
Well, good news! There are already laser tooling equipment on the markets, so no need to build your own! The best thing is, no need to worry about eye-safety, since they have already taken care of that.
Doing that machine at home, well, if you some day start doing that, I seriously wish you luck on your endeavors.
And I definitely would not use it on wood.
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And I definitely would not use it on wood.
depends on what you use it for, if as i suspect we are talking about using it in conjunction with a Lathe then I doubt you could achieve sufficient temperature for a fire, not quickly anyway unless you were being stupid about it, throw in a decent extractor hood over the top to clear the vapor and wood particles and I imagine you should be fine. It would be interesting to see just how precisely the wood could be worked using a laser.
edit
just reread the original post and a lathe might not be the best application but with careful planning you should still be able to avoid a fire
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you could just put the carving volume in a vacuum chamber.
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you could just put the carving volume in a vacuum chamber.
There seems to be a quite an impressive budget behind this, or what? Not even the laser tooling workshops I have seen usually have any vacuum chambers.
Wood is terribly bad material for laser tooling in itself, ignition point is only the start of it. It wont be anyways precise as the material removal is extraordinarily difficult to predict. And I'm yet to see a convincing reason why anybody would like to do anything from wood with a 10 µm tolerance.
Lasers are usually used to create accurate features in relatively planar surfaces that would otherwise be difficult to do with CNC machines. It is not used to shape pieces from large aluminum blocks, CNC is for that, along with aluminum molding.
You would be far better off with a two- or three axis CNC-machine, or a CNC-lathe.
EDIT: Added words italicized
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Any kind of laser with an effective range similar to a good Sniper Rifle would require a heavy power-source, with the added disadvantage that, other than the eyes, the Human body is probably more vulnerable to high-velocity metal than a laser.
I'd like to point out that this pistol uses for power a pack of four AA size Lithium batteries at 3.6V each, weighing 17.5 grams each for the cells themselves. That makes 14.4V and 50 shots worth of energy in only 70 grams. Scaling up the power source is not a concern at all. The concern would be in scaling up the capacitor(s) and all the electronics to handle the higher power flow.
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this also only pops balloons and puts pinholes in thin metal and plastic at 1m range.
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lasers cut wood quite well actually. its not as ideal a material as acrylic, but its fairly decent. most laser machines have a fitting for a compressor or gas tank. this is used to blow away ash from the cut and the lens. i figure you would feed this with something like co2 or argon, and you could cut wood with it. ive seen wood that has been laser cut, it has a really smooth albeit slightly blackened.
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this also only pops balloons and puts pinholes in thin metal and plastic at 1m range.
I was thinking a good market for lasers such as this would be in lighting things on fire. A camping tool for lighting a fire, or you could do sort of a replacement for propane torches. It'd be a big hit with smokers. Light your cigarette in a strong gust of wind you could.
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i could imagine lighting my bong with this thing, of course by the time it went around a couple times, everyone would be completely blind.
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Protective eye-wear sold separately. :nervous:
We're ****ing up the ozone anyway.
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is there any kind of eye wear that can protect you from a 1MW laser?
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is there any kind of eye wear that can protect you from a 1MW laser?
Yes, but with the blast shield down you can't see a thing.
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ive seen a few examples of high end lasers. ive observed an operation using a surgical laser, everyone in the room had to wear protective glasses. also had a laser cutter/engraver in my electronics class. and yes the thing has that glass shield with a special coating that blocks the harmful parts of the spectrum. both are cases of indirect exposure to light and so the eye protection probably wouldn't protect your vision from a direct burst of light directly from the laser.
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is there any kind of eye wear that can protect you from a 1MW laser?
Yes, but with the blast shield down you can't see a thing.
Star Wars reference approved.
:D
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lasers cut wood quite well actually. its not as ideal a material as acrylic, but its fairly decent. most laser machines have a fitting for a compressor or gas tank. this is used to blow away ash from the cut and the lens. i figure you would feed this with something like co2 or argon, and you could cut wood with it. ive seen wood that has been laser cut, it has a really smooth albeit slightly blackened.
I have seen laser machined wood too. They usually have some kind of air circulation at the proximity of the object to be cut, and in the case of wood is likely rather important. But, why would anyone need wood with 10 µm or tighter tolerances in the first place? Laser engraving is one thing, but doing the whole wood doesn't make sense to me.
The biggest advantage I have seen in laser tooling is the speed compared to different manufacturing processes, but if somebody has enough time to construct a laser machining device on his own, he probably could have done the engraving in less time and considerably cheaper with traditional tools. If the laser is used to machine a block of material, its speed advantage starts to go away. On planar-like surfaces it works rather well.
both are cases of indirect exposure to light and so the eye protection probably wouldn't protect your vision from a direct burst of light directly from the laser.
That would principally be correct and is the main reason why I would like the higher powered lasers (III and IV) to be at least registered, better yet restricted only to those who can prove they need one. Even the indirect reflections of the Class IV lasers are dangerous and can cause burns, and calculating when the beam isn't dangerous requires a good grasp of Physics! You are not supposed to eyeball the beam even with shielding glasses on!
It really should really be taken with same respect as firearms.
I was thinking a good market for lasers such as this would be in lighting things on fire. A camping tool for lighting a fire, or you could do sort of a replacement for propane torches. It'd be a big hit with smokers. Light your cigarette in a strong gust of wind you could.
That would be an example of an application where I definitely would not like to see lasers being used.
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Mini laser gun then?
is there any kind of eye wear that can protect you from a 1MW laser?
Yes, but with the blast shield down you can't see a thing.
Star Wars reference approved.
:D
Use the force? :blah:
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They were working on some sort of coating for fighter pilots' helmets IIRC... had some sort of microscopic reflective mirrors that 'snapped' down when hit with a sufficiently bright burst of light. That was an article I read a long time ago, I don't know if they actually ever started producing it.
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They were working on some sort of coating for fighter pilots' helmets IIRC... had some sort of microscopic reflective mirrors that 'snapped' down when hit with a sufficiently bright burst of light. That was an article I read a long time ago, I don't know if they actually ever started producing it.
I bet they did, otherwise every warship in the world would be using relatively cheap laser blinders / jammers.
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Well with the fact that people can shoot down missiles with lasers quite successfully, I posit that hand-held laser weapons are quite close to fruition.
But a pistol? Nah. Where's the ****in' pulse rifle (http://craphound.com/images/pulseriflehowto.jpg)? Or smart gun (http://www.screamingmonkeys.com/Aliens/smartgun2.jpg)?
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smart gun (http://www.screamingmonkeys.com/Aliens/smartgun2.jpg)?
Buy a MG42 and a steadicam harness and build one :P
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Damn cool! The futuristic gun finally came.
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Two types of laser "armor" I know of are ablative or reflective.
Ablative armor essentially absorbs as much energy as it can, and discharge that energy into heat... generally at the cost of the armor itself being eatin away.
Reflective armor-which probably doesn't need much explanation- reflects/deflects the beam away from the target. Reflective armor is generally hazardous to bystanders, however.
I remember talk from somewhere back that IR spectrum lasers where perhaps the only viable spectrum for laser weaponry. This is because A. IR spectrum has the most energy per packet or pulse, and B. IR is invisible to the naked eye.
"Laser bolt to the brain" would require a bolt that is roughly a molecule thick at 1 MW... or a bolt at roughly the size of a pin's head with much more wattage. It takes a significant amount of time in order to burn through material... plus I have this sneaky suspicion that a tiny tiny hole in the brain would not be instantly fatal unless it some vital nerves.