Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Vengence on April 01, 2011, 03:35:41 pm
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I decided to (.... freakin ponies blocking my text...) get back to modeling again to test out some new modeling methods and the end result was pretty good! The CSS Vagrant:
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/6529/vagrantrender.jpg)
(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/1035/vagrantrener.jpg)
Model is not done yet and I have a full lore to integrate this ship into Freespace canon for anyone to use in their mods. I even thought up a contingency for those who would make Blue Planet custom missions >_>.
What's left? : The bridge! As well as the engine sections. And fighter bays. Lots of them. I obviously need to UV and texture this ship.
Plusses: Model was made modular for ease of UVing and preserving an extremely high level of resolution. The ship is likely to use 2 2048x2048 textures and look awesome at the same time.
Still much to do but considering I've done all this in one day I like my progress :). So any feedback?
So far 15,000 triangles
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Freaking beautiful detailing as usual. :yes:
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Keep in mind, you may have only 12 fighterbay patches (ergo, fighterbays).
It would be great if the limit was removed though.
Aside from that, excellent model. It looks a bit like a large transport, which is a good thing, since there are not many good civilian ship.
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Indeedery. Looks very B5-ish (a good thing in my book). What's the planned size for it?
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Looks like an advanced JFK class from SAAB.
(http://rpggamer.org/uploaded_images/Saratoga.jpg)
You could easily push it into a near future-esq ship pretty easily with the right greebles.
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Aside from that, excellent model. It looks a bit like a large transport, which is a good thing, since there are not many good civilian ship.
It really does look like a transport? Wow I really failed on first impressions :p. This is supposedly going to be a 3km long carrier. I chose this disgustingly inelegant design because I wanted a sort of 'old age' design for the GTA, being designed midway through the 14 Year War and construction staggered through red tape and budget reallocation. A big f-ing brick quite literally :). I'm imagining the Vasudans will be quite thoroughly disgusted by its inelegance.
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It looks a lot like the ANS Reliant from Starlancer, which was a carrier retrofitted into a large cargo hauler during peace time and then retrofitted back into a carrier.
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If you want a Carrier first impression, you need runways. :)
This does look like a cargo hauler, B5 and Starlancer do have carriers that fit that aeshetic, though they had a lot to do with cargo vessels.
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Ohhh, now I know what this reminds me of. What was that big carrier in Space: Above and Beyond called again?
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Ohhh, now I know what this reminds me of. What was that big carrier in Space: Above and Beyond called again?
Saratoga
Can't see the forest for the unicorns? (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=75409.msg1493248#msg1493248) :D
Anyway Vengence, I recognized her as a carrier first thing, bulk freighter didn't even cross my mind.
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This is a lot different from the ships I've typically seen from your threads, but it's looking great so far. Seeing suggestions for a Carrier or Freighter, but it also looks like a fitting design for a Sleeper Ship.
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Simple shape with a lot of details, excellent for carrier. Good work :yes:.
BTW. Any chance to see more ships like GTVA Titan? :D
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BTW. Any chance to see more ships like GTVA Titan? :D
Uhh... sadly that design was kind of ripped from a Siege Driver from Sword of the Stars. Being the prick I am I'd rather not outright copy designs ever :p. I might try to make something similar to the role I made for it. A sort of low mass, cheap super capital. So lets keep it at a -maybe- ;).
This is a lot different from the ships I've typically seen from your threads, but it's looking great so far. Seeing suggestions for a Carrier or Freighter, but it also looks like a fitting design for a Sleeper Ship.
I'm all for trying out new stuff though much of my earlier models are Silent Dawn related who's human ships tend to be chaotic, aggressive looking. As for a sleeper ship, an initial inspiration was a colony ship concept I once saw and a ship I built in Galactic Civilizations 2. So I decided to make a model of it :). Also I'm really into this model.... buuuut I'm very unsure about greebling the main section. I kind of invisioned it a bit like a Star Destroyer's hull. Less exposed places show a ton of greebles and detail why gigantic tracts of space are a smooth, low greeble surface I can likely pull off using a normal map.
What you think about that? Most of the hull being smooth and some bits loaded with detail? Or should I detail a good bit of it? This ship is big at 3000+ meters long so it matters. Especially regarding polycount.
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I asked about more models related to Freespace. Titan is great, other models are also interesting, but they're hard to use in mods set in FS universe. Different style, turret setup and other stuff, so I'd like to see more FS-related models from your workroom. You have a great style :D.
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This, I like. TV War era stuff is always welcome :)
3km might be a tad big for the era, but what the hell, it's a damned cool model, and we have pof scaling now.:D
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This, I like. TV War era stuff is always welcome :)
3km might be a tad big for the era, but what the hell, it's a damned cool model, and we have pof scaling now.:D
And that is a big reason why this ship was under constant delays from political differences, shuffling of war budgets to Orions, and red tape bureaucracy. Its big and expensive. Arguing that a few Orions can do just as well :). I'll post the lore when I finish or near then. I'd want to supply more pics while I do.
I asked about more models related to Freespace. Titan is great, other models are also interesting, but they're hard to use in mods set in FS universe. Different style, turret setup and other stuff, so I'd like to see more FS-related models from your workroom. You have a great style :D.
Yeah its a pet peeve. I'd rather make new original stuff than work on a particular setting. But I'm in the mood for some FS expanding ;).
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(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h4/Millennium_Falsehood/Starlancer%20Ships/ANSReliant.jpg)
Here, finally found a pic of the ANS Reliant.
Anyway, I think your ship is great so far, Vengence. Can't wait to see more!
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I uh.... I don't know what to say about this:
(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6529/vagrantrender.jpg)
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I like it. I'm getting a reliant vibe off it too, but that is in no way a bad thing. I would tone down a bit on the number of engines though, unless this thing is supposed to be utterly massive.
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Yeah, I'd tone down on the engines as well. One big engine in the middle, a mid sized engine to the left and right, and to the far sides, a smaller engine. So five engines in total.
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It is a bit of a joke pic though hehe :p.
This is more like it though. Taking a while though.
(http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6529/vagrantrender.jpg)
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Will the two gaps have larger engines filling the space? Looking better now.
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I fooled you all. This is in truth an oversized sword I am modding into TES4: Oblivion :p
(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/3236/vagrantjoke.jpg)
Will the two gaps have larger engines filling the space? Looking better now.
Hopefully Zane, I am diverging heavily from my original concept with the engines so I am making this up as I go now, unlike the body.
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A sword with that shape would be seen in World of Warcraft. :P
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It's not new form. Have you ever seen an executioner's sword? Long handle, long blade, often rectangular in shape (no point in having a point - who needs pointy things when all you have to do is swing?).
:p
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Engines done.... I hope. I'm a sucker for lots of engines but I keep forgetting that in FS they have gigantic engines! Well another reason why this ship had issues being built, it uses so many frakking engines :p.
(http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/6529/vagrantrender.jpg)
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Much better. That looks perfect.
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Yeah, we are SO going to have to bump or make Dynamic the MAX_SHIP_CONTRAILS. At 12, you'll go over that by at least 6.
(don't reduce the count of engines though, we'll figure out raising the limit)
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Yeah, we are SO going to have to bump or make Dynamic the MAX_SHIP_CONTRAILS. At 12, you'll go over that by at least 6.
(don't reduce the count of engines though, we'll figure out raising the limit)
Th...there's a limit? :(
Well no worries there. Least for now.
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Wow, I really like that one. Can't wait to see it textured !!!! And yes, it is truly very Starlancer inspired. I don't get it, why no one has made a TC for that game yet :)
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Can't wait to grab your ship to put with the rest of your models. :)
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Th...there's a limit? :(
Actually, there's one only if you use afterburner trails.
Of course, bumping MAX_SHIP_CONTRAILS is still a good idea.
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Wow, I really like that one. Can't wait to see it textured !!!! And yes, it is truly very Starlancer inspired. I don't get it, why no one has made a TC for that game yet :)
:nervous:, you realize I have never played or even seen Starlancer before right? It is all a coincidence.
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Wow, I really like that one. Can't wait to see it textured !!!! And yes, it is truly very Starlancer inspired. I don't get it, why no one has made a TC for that game yet :)
There's one being worked on, very slowly.
I though I've said this before already.
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For any open space next to the engines, I would add in some beams or Flak or Missile tubes.
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I could use some feedback on this latest addition. I had two concepts for the bridge, a tall structure with a very wide top, slightly akin to a star destroyer but different. The other is a small stub which I haven't modeled. But I am really torn on this existing bridge and I spent a good many hours on it. Looking back, I see it actually has a bit of a Hades feel to it and the bridge looks a bit like the front of the colossus to a degree. It kinda feels right in the FS sense but I'm uncertain.
(http://img807.imageshack.us/img807/6529/vagrantrender.jpg)
(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/8753/vagrantrender2.jpg)
(http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3066/vagrantrender3.jpg)
For any open space next to the engines, I would add in some beams or Flak or Missile tubes.
I have abit of explaining coming up about what specifically this ship is armed with ;).
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I say keep on keeping on, this is a very unique ship compared to most of the others. Would the second bridge concept be made for comparing?
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I like it, it feels like a control tower and befits its role as a carrier.
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Thanks for the feedback. The last things I need doing are possibly some minor detailing on the carrier section and turrets.
Btw here is the alternate bridge built in GalCiv2:
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6958/cssvagrant.jpg)
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Now with that bridge (the one you modelled) it really looks more like a carrier from SAAB. At least, it gives me that feeling :) Great job man :yes:
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What is SAAB? Not the car company eh?
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Space: Above and Beyond.
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I like the first bridge- reminds me of something, but I can't quite put my finger on exactly what. Solid look though.
Also getting more intrigued by the backstory - do you have a campaign planned around this ship?
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Sadly I can't FRED at all but I do have ideas. As for missions, I've only got one in mind. Shall I put down the lore I have right now? Or when I finish the model?
In development news, I've completed the bridge details and will work on turrets later. When that is over with I'll model out the fighter bays.
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Wow, this design is amazing! I can't wait to see it ingame. :)
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Big ouch...
Also the ship has a finalized name.. I hope. I really do hope it hasn't been taken or something XD. How about "GTCa Poseidon"?
12 large turrets as the main battery, six on top, six on bottom. Each turret should be like each of the big ones on the Orion. In the backstory of this ship, they are more or less tweaked Orion triple cannons to accommodate the GTCa Poseidon's special reactor... whom which's special ability shall remain secret for just a bit longer.
(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/637/vagrantrender4.jpg)
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Well the Poseidon is the name of a small freighter in FreeSpace. http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/GTFr_Poseidon
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nice turrets :yes:
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Well the Poseidon is the name of a small freighter in FreeSpace. http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/GTFr_Poseidon
Stupid me for missing the non combatant ship names ;). Oh well, back to the name thinking board.
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Don't you have a proper name that fit with your 3 others models (Typhoon, Blizzard and Hurricane V). I think somethink like HEC Reliant :p
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Don't you have a proper name that fit with your 3 others models (Typhoon, Blizzard and Hurricane V). I think somethink like HEC Reliant :p
ANS Reliant. :D
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I third the motion for (Faction Acronym) Reliant :D
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GTCa Reliant? Also my previous models were from another story universe where they use weather names >_>. HEF Blizzard, HEC Typhoon, HEHc Hurricane, HEF Thunder, HED Lightning. Etcetera
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/me likes the ISD-like main battery arrangement.
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TD Reliant (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/TD_Reliant) - granted, non-canon, but still.
Sticking to the bad-weather theme, Cyclone isn't taken yet. Or in the FS naming scheme, Aegaeus was the Greek god of sea storms. And of course there's still an entire pantheon of non-weather-related figures to choose from.
Nice guns / -arrangement, too :yes: If this is a carrier, where do the fighters launch and land?
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Hmm. Regarding those turrets, have you thought about layering them? As they are now, only the frontmost turret seems to be able to fire forward. By layering them like the turrets on classic WW2 BBs, you could get an awesome amount of forward firepower.
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why not whirlwind?
Also, SAAB? Isn't that the one with the chigs? wasn't there just about every model done in FS for a TC that didn't come to light unfortunately? I recall only the chig mothership missing... pity this didn't make it...
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TD Reliant (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/TD_Reliant) - granted, non-canon, but still.
Sticking to the bad-weather theme, Cyclone isn't taken yet. Or in the FS naming scheme, Aegaeus was the Greek god of sea storms. And of course there's still an entire pantheon of non-weather-related figures to choose from.
Nice guns / -arrangement, too :yes: If this is a carrier, where do the fighters launch and land?
Well I want to put this ship into an FS friendly story and theme, so being Terran it pretty much has to be greek or something. Aegaeus is pretty good though!
The fighters launch from the front section, the long part. In each of those 'sections' staggered apart are going to be launch... I dunno what it is called but it will be something somewhat similar to the Sova Carrier from Sins of a Solar Empire. Granted ... if I can't get animated launch pods like that then I might be forced to use simple doors. What do you think? Would you like to see the carrier 'open' some launch pods from the body and shoot out fighters? Or them just fly out of bays sideways B5 style?
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080217215523/sinsofasolarempire/images/thumb/6/66/Sova.jpg/830px-Sova.jpg)
Hmm. Regarding those turrets, have you thought about layering them? As they are now, only the frontmost turret seems to be able to fire forward. By layering them like the turrets on classic WW2 BBs, you could get an awesome amount of forward firepower.
Believe me the thought did cross my mind. I decided not to since these guns are supposedly for defense. In either case if the thing goes broadside it can still have 6 turrets facing a target while showing the thinnest profile. Similarly it could have 6 turrets attack from a top of bottom vector. Or it could fight multiple targets. Granted these are anti cap ship guns. The ship will have plenty of flak guns to spare :).
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True enough. With 6 guns being able to fire in almost any direction, it should have quite the firepower. Oh, how about a few missile launchers?
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What sort of missiles?
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I dunno, but I think a few capital missile launchers that fire VLS-style would be quite awesome on a ship that size. You don't have to go all Solaris on it, but... Well, see, I have this thing for big missiles.... ;)
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I dunno, something this size in the TV War era... maybe should be struggling to defend itself? It'd almost certainly be the biggest thing on the battlefield - giving it anti-cap capabilities would make it pretty damned advanced.
Although, if you do end up giving it capital armaments, depending on the lore, and the date of its construction, GTD Goliath (http://hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/GTD_Goliath) might be a good name... :D
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I dunno, something this size in the TV War era... maybe should be struggling to defend itself? It'd almost certainly be the biggest thing on the battlefield - giving it anti-cap capabilities would make it pretty damned advanced.
wat
that makes no sense
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I just mean that if they had the capability to build something this big that was also able to put out reasonable offensive punch with missiles, why go backwards to smaller Orions with presumably less fighter capacity and no anti-ship missiles? Why would the missiles never be used again, even on the Hades? There are solutions to all of these, of course - especially if the missiles involved are Fusion Mortars, for example, but I just think that making anything more powerful than the orion for the TV War era is... potentially messy, story wise.
Although, given what Vengence has said regarding the background tech info for this thing, that might all be covered.
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Well, personally, I'd go the F-Project way and just say that it's a gameplay quirk. What we saw in FS1 (capships taking hours to kill each other) was representative of the universe, but flexible for the purposes of gameplay.
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Since when you think that, Snail?
Anyway, I don't see the problem here, and would prefer missile launchers over laser turrets. Less advanced technology than that shown in FS1, but still threatening (regardless of its effectiveness).
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I think I should really explain what's going on I guess.
I'm making this ship playable in the FS2 era with FS2 level power but with its own quirks. Construction was initially started in the TV War Era but delays and budget problems more or less prevented it from being completed in a timely manner. In fact construction pretty much stopped in favor of Orions.... that is until Ross 128 and the Plato incident. The arrival of the Shivans prompted the GTA to ramp up construction on all fields, including building this carrier. It really took the destruction of Vasuda Prime to push this ship to completion, but even then it arrived on the scene very late.... Lucifer in Delta Serpentis late. The GTCa Aegaeus fought in Delta Serpentis, assisting GTA forces against shivan fighters. But when Alpha Wing from the Bastion defeated the Lucifer, the advanced GTCa Aegaeus found itself cut off from home.
The carrier is in a precarious situation. With all of the major schematics and designs for the ship lost at Earth, it is virtually impossible to properly maintain the Aegaeus and its 'advanced' systems proved to be the ship's failing. The Aegaeus uses a triple subspace warp system, a triple redundant capacitor that can allow the ship to perform 3 consecutive warps without recharging and all of its major weapons are linked to this system to flush energy into it. If the GTVA tried to mount large beam cannons in its 12 main turrets, it'd fry the subspace drive and the capacitor system is too ingrained into the shiip's vital systems that trying to bypass it would do more harm than good. In the end, the Aegaeus does not mount a single large beam cannon, rather its 12 main turrets are equipped with downsized light-medium beams. It can defend itself pretty well against a corvette in the FS2 era, but as soon as a frigate or destroyer comes into play, there is little the Aegaeus can do except run or deploy its fighters and bombers. However mounting flak guns was successful so the Aegaeus can unleash a frightening flak cloud when needed.
However, in the FS2 Era, the Aegaeus is a dying ship. Without schematics or original plans for the ship available for maintaining the ship, it is slowly decaying.
Hope this clears some things up. Least in my story there is only one out there.
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Fighter Killers, Bomber interceptor missiles would be good for missiles unless you want larger ones for ship-to-ship combat too?
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Without schematics or original plans for the ship available for maintaining the ship, it is slowly decaying.
Lack of reverse engineering the parts to recreate the plans is a plot hole in this description, especially when there are canon things like the Sekhmet and the Kayser, which are reverse engineered from Shivan designs.
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I thought about that. Though to reverse engineer you'd have to take it apart which is likely to render the ship inoperable. I'd imagine the GTVA fleets for a few years had to be on alert after the GTI rebellion and general chaos empire wide from loosing two homeworlds, so no usable property would have been needlessly destroyed to be reverse engineered. I honestly believed that rather than put the biggest ship in the fleet in a dock for years, they'd take parts from other ships and substitute. A temporary solution but in the end it only degenerates the ship even more with incompatible parts. Maybe for about a decade they had time to patch up the ship and replicate some of its technologies, but I imagine the thing would be on near constant activity, and without the original plans or the will to take it out for good (until the colossus came) it will be a slowly dying ship.
I hope I'm clearing this up. Honestly I'd like any lore suggestions. It'd make for good missions for a campaign someday.
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Hmm.
I am a bit skeptical about the whole "we can't reverse-engineer this" aspect. Unless you are talking about wildly divergent tech bases, reverse engineering is always possible. And even if you can't afford to rip out the working hardware, you still know its specs; building a replacement is a straightforward engineering challenge.
Second, given your proposed age for this project, the technologies developed for this ship have to have been used in late-flight Orions. At the very least, the lessons learned in building this vessel would have been circulated in shipbuilder's circles.
Also, if a GW-era ship could have performed rapid sequential jumps, that's a tech advantage the GTVA can't afford to lose. Even if it would mean losing their big Carrier, the benefits of examining the tech and then refitting other ships with it outweigh the loss of combat power.
Not to mention that purebred carriers are a deeply flawed idea in FS' tactical environment.
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I'm not skeptical about the whole "we can't reverse engineer" this, I think it's more of an option by the GTVA of "forgetting" this design, it has too many tactical flaws about it.
One could, however, always incorporate the "lessons" that E is talking about into the canon, with caveats.
For instance, core reactors could be "too expensive" to produce multiple to single ships. Or they could create "too much radiation", being something very bad to the crew. Or they could prove to be amazingly unreliable in some technobabble justification, for being three reactors linked to the same wires. Or they could prove to be too dangerous, as in cores being more vulnerable to attacks, or when the ship blows up it has a worse radius of hazard than usual, killing all escape pods and fleeing fighters in the process.
Anyways, it's a pity that this carrier has so many problems :lol: , for it is an excelent design ;).
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Well, other mods might have other uses for it. For example, those turrets could be quite awesome if fitted with Gauss Cannons.....
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You could create a new element/assembly/machine with some design constraints, such as max size, minimum power output etc., to fit into the original mountings and fulfill the same function.
A better story IMHO would be that this ship was built with triple jump drives, but then the big beams were developed, and with them whole new ship designs and beam spamming tactics, making the Aegaeus obsolete, so no one wants to invest big cash in fixing it. This would give a reason that it's being neglected, and there is no 'we can't reverse engineer it' plotline.
On the other hand it's unique abilities are a strong argument to keep it in reserve, and so it's just flying around, slowly getting older...
Something like the Iowa class battleships with their 16 inch guns* are in the real world, having been in service or reserves well into the missile cruiser and aircraft carrier age.
*- guns that could spit 2 salvos of 9 rounds per minute until their ammo storage of about 1220 rounds is depleted. The AP (Armor-Piercing) rounds are capable of penetrating 6.4 meters of reinforced concrete from 18 km away. The HC (High-Capacity) rounds explode making a a crater 15 m wide and 6 m deep
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Hehe okay you got me :p. Though the idea for a pure carrier came when I was talking to some friends and jokes that if any faction had enough Alpha 1s they'd be unstoppable. Well I guess you're right, though, they'd probably deem loosing a ship to make better jump cores and build them without the old age flaws. Bengal's idea sounds pretty good though if it were being neglected I guess they'd still take it apart and catalog anything they couldn't when Earth got cut off. I'm pretty sure the actual mission makers can make a better story idea than me XD.
Still, the idea in my mind is something like an old ship built right before Earth got cut off, was too important to stuff away in the short term, but still served well in the new age wars despite being handicapped except for its redeeming strengths.
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Bah, don't bother coming up with a story for your ship - any mod that uses it will have it in its own context anyway. Just build the design you want, people will make their own backstories for it.
The fighters launch from the front section, the long part. In each of those 'sections' staggered apart are going to be launch... I dunno what it is called but it will be something somewhat similar to the Sova Carrier from Sins of a Solar Empire. Granted ... if I can't get animated launch pods like that then I might be forced to use simple doors. What do you think? Would you like to see the carrier 'open' some launch pods from the body and shoot out fighters? Or them just fly out of bays sideways B5 style?
That would be a cool thing, indeed. There is an animation trigger "on launching/landing fighters", so theoretically it should be feasible with only slightly hackish docking bay paths :)
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IIRC one or more of Esarai's ships had hangars with animated doors, feel free to DL them and see how it's made.
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What's the name of it?
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Phoenix Rising.
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Sorry for the lack of updates. I'm working on a contract work and it is time consuming.
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Sorry for the lack of updates. I'm working on a contract work and it is time consuming.
It happens to the best of us...