Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: achtung on April 05, 2011, 03:59:03 pm
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Does anyone know of any good ones? I've already heard of, but not yet purchased, DCS: Black Shark. I've got my good friend Comanche Gold, which does not run on Windows 7, and I can't get at my copy of Comanche 4, assuming I still have it somewhere. I also know about the x vs. Apache/Comanche bunch, but I don't remember if I have them around somewhere, and newer is better.
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ArmA II has a built-in helicopter sim (although not a very realistic one, about on the level of Commanche 4).
Other than that, I don't know about any.
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Does anyone know of any good ones? I've already heard of, but not yet purchased, DCS: Black Shark. I've got my good friend Comanche Gold, which does not run on Windows 7, and I can't get at my copy of Comanche 4, assuming I still have it somewhere. I also know about the x vs. Apache/Comanche bunch, but I don't remember if I have them around somewhere, and newer is better.
Commanche Gold.. ahh, that was a great game.
There is Gunship, but it's OLD. (and of course, Apache vs Havoc, as you've mentioned)
Other than that, I can't think of many.
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I should also mention I know the new Ace Combat is going to have chopper sections.
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I should also mention I know the new Ace Combat is going to have chopper sections.
And Ace Combat is a sim? News to me.
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Arcade games included then, the Comanche games are more arcade anyway.
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Arcade games included then, the Comanche games are more arcade anyway.
Well, the latter ones, but Commanche Gold was a sim (If it's the same one I'm thinking of), maybe not the most utterly complex one, but still sim rather than Arcade.
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There once was a game called Gunship,
it's claim to fame was the Apache,
somewhat old but should still be a trip,
and probably newer than Comanche.
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I vaguely remember one which included the ability to fly the Eurocopter Tiger, the Apache and a bunch of other Helis. Must've been around the year 2000-ish it came out, but I'll be damned if I can remember it's name.
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Aero Elite Combat Academy for the PS2 had combat helicopters.
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and there's Apache air assault on ps3 and xbox.
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and there's Apache air assault on ps3 and xbox.
I tried the demo. Didn't enjoy it much on the first go, may try again.
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You might check Abandonia.com - I believe they've got Hind on register over there.
If you're looking for realism, you might also check out X-Plane, though your combat opportunities will be limited. I love flight sims, but I'm a figher man, not a chopper guy.
:p
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i wanted to get dcs blackshark, but that dream was easily shattered when i found out that the game used starforce.
the hind d is one of my all time favorite choppers, id love to see a sim built around that. considering the hind was capable of being used as a troop transport, i would like such games to show that aspect in their gameplay. such as landing troops, providing cas, and then dusting off the soldiers at the end of the mission.
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i wanted to get dcs blackshark, but that dream was easily shattered when i found out that the game used starforce.
Yeah, that's what blew it for me as well.
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i wanted to get dcs blackshark, but that dream was easily shattered when i found out that the game used starforce.
the hind d is one of my all time favorite choppers, id love to see a sim built around that. considering the hind was capable of being used as a troop transport, i would like such games to show that aspect in their gameplay. such as landing troops, providing cas, and then dusting off the soldiers at the end of the mission.
Hind 95 was an absolute beast of a sim back in the day and featured this kind of stuff, from memory.
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I can still play Hind on XP using a Glide wrapper, I think it was this one: http://www.zeckensack.de/glide/
i wanted to get dcs blackshark, but that dream was easily shattered when i found out that the game used starforce.
the hind d is one of my all time favorite choppers, id love to see a sim built around that. considering the hind was capable of being used as a troop transport, i would like such games to show that aspect in their gameplay. such as landing troops, providing cas, and then dusting off the soldiers at the end of the mission.
The Enemy Engaged series (Apache vs. Havoc and Comanche vs. Hokum) has been upgraded/modded by the EECH Central community, allowing you to fly not just the choppers in those titles, but also the Mi24V (in fact, some of the development team behind Hind and Apache Longbow worked on this series too). You can actually fly troop insertion missions with it. They are also working on the AH-1Z Viper. I recently updated my install and tried it out; at the moment it uses the default Apache cockpit but someone is building a new one for it (see here (http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3173875/AH_1Z_Cockpit.html#Post3173875)). I'm guessing that it uses the Apache's flight model, I could be wrong, although they will probably change that in the future if that's the case. Some other things that are being worked on are the textures, effects and models; here're some examples:
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3192502/Remake_models_cockpits_effects.html#Post3192502 (http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3192502/Remake_models_cockpits_effects.html#Post3192502)
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3229868/Viper_Cobra_and_Kiowa_reskins_.html#Post3229868 (http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3229868/Viper_Cobra_and_Kiowa_reskins_.html#Post3229868)
EECH Central's site: http://www.eechcentral.com/ (http://www.eechcentral.com/)
It's also possible to fly just about any other chopper in the game, although again, the flight models might not be too realistic for those, and they use the default Apache cockpit. It can be a bit buggy, as in crash to desktop buggy when selecting certain targeting systems that the chopper you're flying doesn't actually have - at least I think that's the problem.
When they were released, both titles were generally regarded as being more 'arcade' in nature rather than proper 'sims', but I thought they were complex enough to be counted as sims. However, the modded version attempts to bring it up to par (or nearly so) with Jane's Longbow 2 which was generally seen as a benchmark sim at the time. You can customise the realism provided by the mod through editing an .ini file, so it's now possible to have a proper engine start-up procedure, and avionics are closer to the real thing, especially regarding the Apache's targeting abilities (e.g. setting up priority fire zones on the MFD, manually laser designating targets, and so on). They have also added the co-pilot/gunner's cockpit to it.
The campaigns are dynamic, so missions are generated 'on the fly', and you can jump to different choppers while in-game, or instead 'lock' your pilot to a single chopper. Waypoints can be altered prior to or during flight. Sometimes the AI makes some questionable decisions about allocating particular units to certain missions. For example, the AI might decide to use Apaches for a SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defences) mission, which should really be allocated to strike jets like the F/A-18. I remember playing the unmodded version of the game some years ago, in which I chose the Apache for an escort mission, in which, IIRC, I was supposed to escort.....some F-16's. I have not encountered anything that strange in the modded version though.
Although the Comanche is included, despite it not having entered service, it's possible to edit a file that replaces them with other choppers, such as the OH-58 Kiowa, should you so wish.
You also get lots of extra campaign maps. Can't recall all of them but they include parts of Alaska, Puerto Rico, the Grand Canyon (why there'd be a conflict there, I don't know), Norway, the Aleutian Islands, the Alexander Archipelago, even one that's supposed to be an area of Mars' surface. :blah:
There's also Enemy Engaged 2, which I haven't tried, but the general consensus is that it didn't improve much upon the originals. Another sim that was released around the same time as Comanche vs. Hokum was Ka-52 Team Alligator, which looked impressive and had a squadron management feature which allowed you to manage your pilots' workload and R'n'R.
I vaguely remember one which included the ability to fly the Eurocopter Tiger, the Apache and a bunch of other Helis. Must've been around the year 2000-ish it came out, but I'll be damned if I can remember it's name.
I think you're referring to MicroProse's GUNSHIP! (note the '!' there). It was also released around the same time. It looked very photo-realistic, but generally received poor reviews, as it was released largely unfinished.
I'd recommend the Enemy Engaged series (I'm ignoring Enemy Engaged 2) with the mods applied, but that's just my opinion, and I'm eager to see what the modding team will do next as they have so far made some very good additions and made it feel more like a proper sim.
Edited for spelling and grammar corrections, and added an extra paragraph.
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Hmm. Just came across Combat-Helo, which seems to be an unoffical
update sequel to Jane's Longbow 2:
http://www.moddb.com/games/combat-helo (http://www.moddb.com/games/combat-helo)
http://combathelo.blogspot.com/ (http://combathelo.blogspot.com/)
Still in development, looks quite good. :eek2:
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Sorry to triple post. Found some WIP footage of Combat-Helo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ILqIQDaio (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ILqIQDaio)
Well that's another sim that might be an incentive for me to get a new computer.
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There is also Take On Helicopters, a game sitll in development, made by the creators of Arma 2
It will apperently also feature combat missions.
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Some (somewhat old) EECH videos I thought I'd post.
Apache cockpit and some gameplay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_9Nnl55r08)
More Apache action (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoRxDLvclso&feature=related), briefly showing the use of a priority fire zone at about 2:05-2:10 on the pilot's right MFD.
Some in-game Hind footage (no sound) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFnTdXwIAwE). Yes, that mini-fan is player-operable. :cool:
I feel that I should rectify a comment in my previous post a little: going by the reviews I've seen, these games were classed as simulations - I was referring to someone's recent comment that I read on EECH Central's SimHQ forum that the community regarded them as being more arcade games than sims, which surprises me given what I've experienced, and what I've read elsewhere on their site. This seems to be due to EECH being easier to learn than Longbow 2, but still hard to master, and also that Jane's title was seen as the benchmark for hardcore helicopter sims at the time. EECH does have it's flaws and some effects look a bit dated, but hopefully the modding team will improve on them in future.
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I have to agree with the recomendation of eech its an awesome game
ps: eech 2 they concentrated on the graphics and started from the razorworks sourcecode not the eech dev team source code, so it looks pretty but doesnt have the features eech now has
for example the roads are now beautifully curved but the vehicles follow the old angular roads of eech and ignore those corners
sometimes when im doing something i will fire up eech launch a campaign and just watch the entire war play out
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Yes I sometimes do that too, sit back and let it unfold for a while. The campaigns are dynamic, but that's offset a little in that the units seem to always start in the same position at the beginning of the campaign (or so I've read).
I'd like to see the AI for ground units improved. And airborne ones too. Recently I saw some dodgy helicopter AI behaviour. A Ka-52 and an Apache dueling with each other on either side of a mountain. After cautiously circling and back-circling each other for a while (to give the AI some credit that seemed kind of intelligent actually) it got to the point where they were practically flying in formation and trying to shoot each other down using air-to-air missiles at too short a range. They were in range for using their guns but neither did so. It was taking place at night (and it might have been in poor weather, possibly snowing but I can't remember) but still that's what FLIR and radar are for. Eventually they seemed to part ways. :confused:
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And of course each 1 has the ability to link up with eeah (Enemy Engaged: Apache vs Havok) so you can play eeah using the eech engine
eech 2 does not
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The last helicopter "sim" that was actually still a sim that i played was Longbow II, which ran great on my 200mhz CPU that i installed just for that game! :)
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I think I might pick up EECH and EEAH from GOG.
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Before you do that you'll probably want to check if your video card will work OK with it, if you haven't already done so. Check the link below 'New article' about 3/4 down this page (http://www.eechcentral.com/) for a list, or ask on their SimHQ forum.
I've read that if you have Windows 7 installed then the GOG version will install in Vista-compatible mode and be set to 'run program as administrator.' Turning off the compatibility mode should make it run.
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Seems like a rather cool game, and it may also motivate me to buy some pedals for use as anti torque ones too! :P
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Picked up EECH and EEAH, this may take a bit to get used to. Looks pretty fun though. I wonder why nobody's picked up the source and completed a Linux port.
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All EECH articles are linked here if you need to look something up: http://www.eechcentral.com/wiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages (http://www.eechcentral.com/wiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages)
There are some old training mission reports on the SimHQ forums, on the 'after action reports board.' They seem to be based on either vanilla EECH or perhaps an older modded version, but still most of the principles should apply to the latest mod should you be using it.
Basic flight and navigation: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1652467/1.html (http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1652467/1.html)
Sensors/targeting: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1652499&page=0&fpart=1 (http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1652499&page=0&fpart=1)
AIM-92 Stinger / Hydra 70 rockets: http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1652510&page=0&fpart=1 (http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1652510&page=0&fpart=1)
Hellfires and 20mm cannon: http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=71&Number=1652531 (http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=71&Number=1652531)
I find that TrackIR is quite useful when playing modded EECH. It can be used with the helmet-mounted sight (HIDSS or HMD) to highlight targets and steer the cannon (there's an option in the .ini file that enables it). Problem is I cannot then map my joystick's POV switch to other key commands, as far as I know it's not possible to setup the controls like you can in FreeSpace, at least not to the same extent. I'd probably use it for trim control, or to steer the sensors (FLIR, DTV etc), but the mouse can be used for this instead.
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Against what might be my better judgement, I'm considering getting MicroProse's GUNSHIP! despite it being over 10 years old. Just curious as to how differently it plays to EECH, so I might try the demo first. From what I've read it was patched following its release so it may have been a bit underappreciated. Some reviewers saw it as a failed attempt to be Longbow 3, but apparently it never really set out to be a technical 'study' sim in the first place. It tries to simulate the overall pilot experience rather than simulating all the helicopter's systems.
I found this out here: http://www.simwarrior.com/gunship/index.html (http://www.simwarrior.com/gunship/index.html), in particular the FAQ: http://www.simwarrior.com/gunship/gunshipFAQ.html#OSprob1 (http://www.simwarrior.com/gunship/gunshipFAQ.html#OSprob1)
The 'The Times of Sand' expansion pack looks kind of interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp221dzPaVw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp221dzPaVw&feature=related)
I've not really seen any 'air cavalry' style advances alongside tank formations in EECH; that's something it really lacks.
EDIT: Although that might be because I just haven't seen any happen in the missions I've flown (I tend to flick between campaigns and never finish any of them), but still I doubt they happen in the same way as they do in that video.
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if your expecting the full game with patch to be an improvement on the gunship demo it isnt
ps: about eech linux port someone was doing an opengl port dont thing it ever got finished though
pps: if your struggling with each look for uit in each ini untill you get the hang of it (its a cheat)
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The 'The Times of Sand' expansion pack looks kind of interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp221dzPaVw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp221dzPaVw&feature=related)
At 1:38, start watching the Mi-8's tail rotor.
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:wtf: Yeah, it's incomplete so it's not bug-free.
Shame that MicroProse ended that franchise with something that was much less well received than the earlier GS titles. At least B-17 Flying Fortress: The Mighty 8th, their last sim, turned out to be good.
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:wtf: Yeah, it's incomplete so it's not bug-free.
Shame that MicroProse ended that franchise with something that was much less well received than the earlier GS titles. At least B-17 Flying Fortress: The Mighty 8th, their last sim, turned out to be good.
Oh, The B17 sim in full 3D?
Loved that one :)
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Yes, the second one that was released in 2000.
I've read somewhere that the next module in the DCS series will be for the Apache. Most likely it'll feature the same level of 'switchology' as Black Shark does, going by what I've seen in that sim.
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Considering that real combat helis (or any combat aircraft, for that matter, except those which are completely computerized, like F-22) also have an enormous amount of "switchology" needed to operate them, this should not be suprising.