-Bomb-pumped Lasers (Beam Warheads)
My solution to getting beam weapons into range of enemy capital ships without exposing yourself to return beam fire, or to long range missile bombardment as you close the range. The idea is basically that a missile has a beam emitter on its front, flies out toward the target and detonates. The force of the explosion is channeled to the emitter to create a short lived (compared to the actual ship based beam duration) and lower damage beam that can hit the enemy ship. This is additionally immune to the jamming used against current beam weapons, because the missiles would have individual guidance systems, just as our on-fighter missiles do, which don't appear to be affected. If anything, more ECM support would have to be developed to counter this threat, lowering enemy electronic warfare capabilities. Anyways, pack loads of these missiles and we can get beam fire in high numbers over incredibly long range.
-Flak Missiles (maybe?)
The inspiration here for me was the slammer from WiH. Basically, cap ships could try to thin out bomber squadrons by firing these missiles towards them, detonating them sending a cone of flak forward, hopefully destroying the fighters. Problem being fighters/bombers would most likely easily avoid these missiles once they were fired
-Mines
Pretty simple idea really, mines that track onto enemy IFF, collide and detonate. Require fighter sweeps to eliminate, but would be highly effective in jump node defense or areas where you know the enemy capships will have to jump in without recon.
- Smaller mines that put out a huge load of flak to act as anti-fighter mines maybe? But fighters would be able to deal with that fairly easily to that might be wasted.
-Arbalest
The Arbalest would be new ship class, either a destroyer or in the frigate size range, built around this missile warfare, while the Orions and the Hecates with their fleet elements would handle the close in warfaree and the fighter ops respectively, the arbalests and their fleet elements could hang back and bludgeon the enemy from range. This might be particularly effective in dealing with threats the Sathanas
Support
-ECM Missiles
In keeping with the missile theme here, we want to maximize the number of missiles that get through, thus we seed our salvo with EW missiles that lower the effectiveness of enemy defensive fire and interfere with fighter targeting systems. Pretty much just really bursty jamming that plays havoc with sensor arrays rather then with communications.
Defensive ECM missiles that do the same thing to missile guidance would help in defending against incoming salvos
-Fighter ECM
Could be loaded on Capital Ship missiles and sensor arrays, or compacted in a smaller form into fighter missiles. Fighters could fly a support role and launch one of their ECM missiles which then creates false sensor images of other fighters (2-3?) that look real and attract enemy weapons fire. The only way to ascertain whether the target was real would be for a fighter to attain visual ID. Would be useful to fake some fighters and bombers when attacking cap ships.
-Cloaking ECM
Have an AWACS ship in the area 'mask' the signal of a cap ship or wing of fighters, holding their emissions down so that they could only be detected at very short range
-Footprint Magnification
Once again relying on an AWACS ship to fake out enemy sensor arrays by making a ship look like something its not. Either by masking part of its emissions (make an orion look like Deimos for example) or making it look more nasty to discourage attack (Triton disguised as Deimos). Adjustment would of course have to be within reasonable limits there's only so much that fancy sensor manipulation can do. A Perseus would never be able to pretend to be an Orion with the support of even two AWACS ships
-Shield Transfers
Make defending ships easier as the larger ships could emit beams that increase friendly fighter shield recharge by maybe 25%?
-Local Shield Emitters
Cap ships could be equipped with local shield emitters with a certain range of influence between them (ideally spread across the hull to overlap). Thus, when a bomber wing sends its payload out targeted at a certain point, the local shield emitter could bring up a temp shield (4-5 second duration) about the strength of a fighter shield ballooning over that section. It can take some of the damage negating, or at least lessening the initial damage. However, crushing damage to the shield would overload the emitters, at best increasing their cycle time (already high) at worst, destroying them outright.
WeaponsModern missiles have proximity fuses which detonate them at a small distance from their target aircraft. The warhead explodes and sends a cone of thousands of metal shrapnel.
-Flak Missiles (maybe?)
The inspiration here for me was the slammer from WiH. Basically, cap ships could try to thin out bomber squadrons by firing these missiles towards them, detonating them sending a cone of flak forward, hopefully destroying the fighters. Problem being fighters/bombers would most likely easily avoid these missiles once they were fired
-MinesJust go with the sentry guns.
Pretty simple idea really, mines that track onto enemy IFF, collide and detonate. Require fighter sweeps to eliminate, but would be highly effective in jump node defense or areas where you know the enemy capships will have to jump in without recon.
- Smaller mines that put out a huge load of flak to act as anti-fighter mines maybe? But fighters would be able to deal with that fairly easily to that might be wasted.
-ArbalestMore on this in Teeth of the Tiger when it gets released. :p
The Arbalest would be new ship class, either a destroyer or in the frigate size range, built around this missile warfare, while the Orions and the Hecates with their fleet elements would handle the close in warfare and the fighter ops respectively, the arbalests and their fleet elements could hang back and bludgeon the enemy from range. This might be particularly effective in dealing with threats the Sathanas
-ECM MissilesThere is this thing called an "Electronics" flag, combine that with the "EMP" flag and you could get an enemy capital ship temporarily combat ineffective. For reference- check TotT Intro, mission 3.
In keeping with the missile theme here, we want to maximize the number of missiles that get through, thus we seed our salvo with EW missiles that lower the effectiveness of enemy defensive fire and interfere with fighter targeting systems. Pretty much just really bursty jamming that plays havoc with sensor arrays rather then with communications.
Defensive ECM missiles that do the same thing to missile guidance would help in defending against incoming salvos
-Fighter ECMSimply launching swarm missiles that have a long lifetime, fly really slow and have the "bomb" tag would keep turrets busy. You could make a semi-transparent model of a fighter using the same evil black magic they use to make glass textures, or a model with it's only texture being a glowmap. Then use some kind of "no-collide" voodoo to keep enemy shots from hitting the semi-transparent model.
Could be loaded on Capital Ship missiles and sensor arrays, or compacted in a smaller form into fighter missiles. Fighters could fly a support role and launch one of their ECM missiles which then creates false sensor images of other fighters (2-3?) that look real and attract enemy weapons fire. The only way to ascertain whether the target was real would be for a fighter to attain visual ID. Would be useful to fake some fighters and bombers when attacking cap ships.
-Cloaking ECMAnd a feature request from me:
Have an AWACS ship in the area 'mask' the signal of a cap ship or wing of fighters, holding their emissions down so that they could only be detected at very short range
-Footprint MagnificationSEXP's I guess...
Once again relying on an AWACS ship to fake out enemy sensor arrays by making a ship look like something its not. Either by masking part of its emissions (make an orion look like Deimos for example) or making it look more nasty to discourage attack (Triton disguised as Deimos). Adjustment would of course have to be within reasonable limits there's only so much that fancy sensor manipulation can do. A Perseus would never be able to pretend to be an Orion with the support of even two AWACS ships
-Bomb-pumped Lasers (Beam Warheads)
My solution to getting beam weapons into range of enemy capital ships without exposing yourself to return beam fire, or to long range missile bombardment as you close the range. The idea is basically that a missile has a beam emitter on its front, flies out toward the target and detonates. The force of the explosion is channeled to the emitter to create a short lived (compared to the actual ship based beam duration) and lower damage beam that can hit the enemy ship. This is additionally immune to the jamming used against current beam weapons, because the missiles would have individual guidance systems, just as our on-fighter missiles do, which don't appear to be affected. If anything, more ECM support would have to be developed to counter this threat, lowering enemy electronic warfare capabilities. Anyways, pack loads of these missiles and we can get beam fire in high numbers over incredibly long range.
Not really doable with the engine ATM. Unless, of course, you use a workaround similar to the one found in FS1 for the beams, then it is quite possible.
Quote-Flak Missiles (maybe?)
The inspiration here for me was the slammer from WiH. Basically, cap ships could try to thin out bomber squadrons by firing these missiles towards them, detonating them sending a cone of flak forward, hopefully destroying the fighters. Problem being fighters/bombers would most likely easily avoid these missiles once they were fired
You mean something like the Infyrno (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Infyrno) featured in retail?
Quote-Arbalest
The Arbalest would be new ship class, either a destroyer or in the frigate size range, built around this missile warfare, while the Orions and the Hecates with their fleet elements would handle the close in warfaree and the fighter ops respectively, the arbalests and their fleet elements could hang back and bludgeon the enemy from range. This might be particularly effective in dealing with threats the Sathanas
Say hi to the Solaris.
Quote-MinesJust go with the sentry guns.
Pretty simple idea really, mines that track onto enemy IFF, collide and detonate. Require fighter sweeps to eliminate, but would be highly effective in jump node defense or areas where you know the enemy capships will have to jump in without recon.
- Smaller mines that put out a huge load of flak to act as anti-fighter mines maybe? But fighters would be able to deal with that fairly easily to that might be wasted.
Unless you use untargetable, kamikaze asteroids in an asteroid field. Those would be nasty.
Was thinking longer range and warship mounted with a proximity fuseThat's easy to construct, just make the missile big. IIRC it's also possible to have missiles spawn different types of submunitions, so there could be, for example, a mix of very destructive, unguided warheads set to blow up more/less when they reach the target(s) as well as less powerful heat seekers.
Glad the ECM ideas were well received, and once again, if they already exist and I'm just stupid (more then possible) then disregard me hahaThat would be a good use for the "Max Detection Range:" and "Max Targeting Range:" features, the asteroid IEDs could be set to appear as blurry dots at 200 meters, become targetable at 150 meters, and detonate at 140.Quote-MinesJust go with the sentry guns.
Pretty simple idea really, mines that track onto enemy IFF, collide and detonate. Require fighter sweeps to eliminate, but would be highly effective in jump node defense or areas where you know the enemy capships will have to jump in without recon.
- Smaller mines that put out a huge load of flak to act as anti-fighter mines maybe? But fighters would be able to deal with that fairly easily to that might be wasted.
Unless you use untargetable, kamikaze asteroids in an asteroid field. Those would be nasty.
Damn that would be scary. On the topic of mines just because I like the idea would it be possible to supplement sentry guns with mines if the mines were small, and had stealth gear so could only be targeted at very short range if at all? Provides a little more use for them then hunter killers in an asteroid field
Was thinking longer range and warship mounted with a proximity fuseThat's easy to construct, just make the missile big. IIRC it's also possible to have missiles spawn different types of submunitions, so there could be, for example, a mix of very destructive, unguided warheads set to blow up more/less when they reach the target(s) as well as less powerful heat seekers.
Now that we're at it- guess I'll spend some time building weapons. This thread is good for inspirations.
Just one submunition type, but otherwise yeah.
How about a beam cannon that silently judges the enemy's tastes until he simply dies of shame?
How about a beam cannon that silently judges the enemy's tastes until he simply dies of shame?
I'd see that in the next JAD :P
And a Request from me:
A "Max Detection Range:" and "Max Targeting Range:" feature for the ships.tbl. The first one would define where a ship appears as a blurry dot on sensors, the second would define where it becomes a clear contact that could be targeted.[/color]
1. Kamikaze Drone - This is not your regular Kamikaze fighter. It's a Strikecraft filled with Cyclops/Bomber torpedoes with its shields and weapon reactor stripped out. However, the engine is still there. When summoned, these Drones jump in VERY CLOSE to the target warship - as in like 300-50 meters away from it. Then, boom.Sounds a lot like the SSM strikes from BP: WiH, where the missiles' model is replaced by that of a drone.
2. Non-Lethal Ion-Blast Missile - Works perfectly for capture operations. It's less immoral and impersonal to use this than your basic Laser Primaries, as it can't kill anyone. This missile's design combines the shield damaging capabilities of the Circe, the Subsystem-destroying of the Akheton SDG, and an added EMP effect as well as the energy draining ability of the Lamprey. Fire a couple of these to an enemy fighter/bomber and it will be FULLY disabled; it can't move, it can't fire, its shields are disabled, and there's nowhere to go.Stiletto? Okay, the Stiletto doesn't have an EMP effect and isn't manouverable enough to chase most fighers, but that is easy enough to change in tables alone.
I also thought you could make Uber-versions of this; one that could take out entire capital ships with ease. So, you can actually capture stubborn fanatic Rebel warships who don't want to surrender (e.g. Imagine if the Colossus fired these at the Repulse. Koth would have no choice but to be boarded).Why would you want an "instant win" missile? Just finding a blind spot and blasting away with ion cannons and ion missiles to take out even the biggest capship sounds really boring. Much better to have to take out each subsystem by itself on capital ships.
I agree. the actual detection system lacks of modding ability imho.I'd say that max detection range could also be replaced with something like $Detectability:, which would be used along with $Sensor detecting power: to calculate the max distance a given object appears on radar as a blurry dot, just like $Emission Signature: (or perhaps I'd call it $Targetability:) would be used to calculate the max range the object could be targeted at.
$Max Detection Range : Number
but instead of
Max Targeting Range:
i would replace this by
$Emission signature force : Number
'Cause depending size of ships or weapon (actually we can detect/target bomb ) the targetting range would depend of your own detection system and your target's signature ; this would allow flexibility with stealth fighter etc...
Coming soon : the Overkill mk2 missile :No, you're doing it wrong. You want a missile that is heat seeking and spawns two of itself. This will eventually crash the game.
1.TAGs a target,
2.calls in SSBombs that also spawn TAG missiles
3.goto 1
4.pray that the universe won't be destroyed in the process
I've got a minor idea. How about "mini-beams" mounted on fighters? The main advantage would be to ignore the hostile target's shields, which are pretty tough on Shivan fighters.
No, you're doing it wrong. You want a missile that is heat seeking and spawns two of itself. This will eventually crash the game.
I've yet to see it done well (in any released mod) though.I've got a minor idea. How about "mini-beams" mounted on fighters? The main advantage would be to ignore the hostile target's shields, which are pretty tough on Shivan fighters.Done so many times
I've yet to see it done well (in any released mod) though.I've got a minor idea. How about "mini-beams" mounted on fighters? The main advantage would be to ignore the hostile target's shields, which are pretty tough on Shivan fighters.Done so many times
Manually-guided missiles:
The player launches missiles as if they were dumbfire, then 'paints' the enemy with a targeting laser or with an aspect lock. The missile changes course to make a beeline for the target, but only for as long as the player maintains the lock. If the lock is broken, the missile continues on its current course, until a new target is painted.
No, you're doing it wrong. You want a missile that is heat seeking and spawns two of itself. This will eventually crash the game.
P.S. The limits are 500 beams and 350 weapons. Who needs 500 beams?[/color]Wings of Dawn 2, judging from the screenshots :p
Have the engine cull more projectiles or beams when the FPS dips below a certain amount?
Have the engine cull more projectiles or beams when the FPS dips below a certain amount?
Smokescreen:That's an interesting idea and probably easy to implement too.
I had an idea yesterday while dogfighting online. After I damaged an enemy fighter's hull, the particle spew obscured my vision, allowing my quarry to evade my next attacks. Such a thing could be intentional: imagine an alternate countermeasure that produces a dense cloud. It would have no effect against aspect-seeking missiles, but in a close-quarters dogfight would confuse a tailing human enemy. It could be associated with a small EMP burst to throw off the follower's targeting computer.
Yeah, bomber mounted beams can work (and have worked), they're are pretty fun. Should play with the bomb-pumped laser...
Shotgun-like weapon? Something like Federation flaks in WiH, but for fighters, and using lazors. Sacrifices long range for short range efectiveness.
Shotgun-like weapon? Something like Federation flaks in WiH, but for fighters, and using lazors. Sacrifices long range for short range efectiveness.
Also regarding the limits, why not having current limit for objects as default, and increase that limit only if its filled and fps is still sufficient? Best of both worlds.
But seriously, has anyone ever tried making an organism as a "ship"? Space Kraken/Leviathan? Or is it simply too complicated (might require complex animation technique)?The closest thing to that I know of are the Cordi Bombers in Wings of Dawn. While they are, for all intents and purposes, still "normal" fighters, they do have a rather organic look and tentacles that move, when you activate the afterburner.
I still think we're making insufficient use of submunition weapons in capships. It'd be possible to create huge walls of fire with single turrets under the current system, just nobody does.
results were mixed :
-using Piranha on its missile batteries made it a lot more dangerous against fighters
-not that effective on cains with a lighter version of the Piranha, the cruiser still dies very quickly
-I had balance issues on the Molochs, because they have 4 or 5 missile batteries
-not very good on Ravanas, but at least it was kinda annoying when attacking the front beam canons
You play too much ZH/Shockwave, ha. WoD's Dragonslave missile has a sphere like this, although it looks the same from all directions. Would be pretty cool doing it the way you suggested.
You play too much ZH/Shockwave, ha. WoD's Dragonslave missile has a sphere like this, although it looks the same from all directions. Would be pretty cool doing it the way you suggested.
Actually, considering the size of the bubble, I think this is from the original Command and Conquer: Generals, not Zero Hour (and definitely not Shockwave).
Zero Hour's EMP was smaller, but flashed luminously after the disappearance of the bubble. These bubbles also are the result of the exploding warheads from the EMP Patriot point defense launchers.
Anyway, why is it that fictional depictions of EMP shockwaves always result in "energy bubbles" like that?
probably an illusion from the resolution and cropping
...didn't think vChina's EMP bomb was that big. Maybe a mod or something.
Machine Gun - All primaries are kinda like machine guns, but this one has modern day fire rates. Same sort of DPS as a subach though. Maybe have have an ammo limit if you bump the DPS up to kayser level.Did you play the Unification War mod (offspinn from the Terran Vasudan War Project)? They have plenty such weapons there.
Kinetic weapon turrets - They were in INFR1, annoying as hell.Just use FRED and give Morningstar or Maxim on some turrets.
Shields do block solid objects moving at high speeds, i.e. GTW Maxim, SCWS-something Gattler, GTM Harpoon, GTM Trebuchet
Why would you use a kinetic energy penetrator when you have unguided nuclear-scale rockets carried in hundreds? If you're using the Archer against fighters...uhh...you shouldn't (because it is REALLY REALLY MEAN for a human to do something like that).
Although fluff dictates that Freespace anti-fighter missiles are equal to kilotons of TNT, realism refutes it; should you have weapons that powerful you should be able to vaporize an asteroid (or something close to that) with a Trebuchet.
What about the asteroids you casually vaporise with a couple of shot from the Subach HL-7 :P
If shields can be pierced by any solid projectile, that would make them utterly useless.
Meat shield - Big ships with very heavy armour, but little weaponry that are, relatively, cheap. And who's goal is to draw fire from other ships to themselves. Which they can do to poor enemy tactics, or by physically getting in the way of hostile weapons. They can cut off hostile ships from the battle so that their side has a greater ratio than if the meat shield wasn't there. Sort of like the firepower, hull strength and size of a great war era orion, but a lot cheaper (corvette cost?).
Quote from: Killer WhaleMeat shield - Big ships with very heavy armour, but little weaponry that are, relatively, cheap. And who's goal is to draw fire from other ships to themselves. Which they can do to poor enemy tactics, or by physically getting in the way of hostile weapons. They can cut off hostile ships from the battle so that their side has a greater ratio than if the meat shield wasn't there. Sort of like the firepower, hull strength and size of a great war era orion, but a lot cheaper (corvette cost?).
GVC Mentu.
Kinda big, flat.
Lots of HP for a cruiser (67k).
****ty weaponry (no guns on bottom, food for capships, aeolus and even leviathan pwns it a billion times at anti-fighter work)
Only good thing about it is if you put two of them with their flat side facing each other and put a freighter or two in between, the freighter(s) survival rate increases dramatically.
What's the point of this "big hard ship blockade" thing? All the enemy has to do is not attack it.