Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Unknown Target on April 20, 2011, 08:52:37 pm
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Has anyone else had such a ****ty time? I can't seem to find anything. I've gotten two maybes - everything else has either not replied or flat out said no. With summer approaching I can't find a place to work...granted I've still been trying things that I could actually use a college degree for (industrial design/3d modeling/game design), but it's not like my local area (Rochester, N.Y.) has many jobs period. :doubt: Has anyone else had similar/better/worse luck?
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I haven't even tried.
Go to school and become a nurse or radiology tech or something in the medical field. That'll get you a job, if that's what you really want.
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I've had zero luck. Even flipping burgers at McDonald's. Nothing.
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Has anyone else had such a ****ty time? I can't seem to find anything. I've gotten two maybes - everything else has either not replied or flat out said no. With summer approaching I can't find a place to work...granted I've still been trying things that I could actually use a college degree for (industrial design/3d modeling/game design), but it's not like my local area (Rochester, N.Y.) has many jobs period. :doubt: Has anyone else had similar/better/worse luck?
I tried for 5 months to get a CNA job, I finally just went and got a job at Office Depot.
Also, try Walmart.
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Does your college organize internships? Does it provide any post graduate assistance for finding jobs? If there are no gaming industry jobs in your local area then your going to either have bite the bullet and apply for jobs remotely then move, or settle for another industry. Graphic Design would probably be the best analog for your education and there should generally be a much higher demand(and less saturation of the market) in the business side of the tech industry then video games. Web design consultants and even larger companies who inhouse their sites will probably be looking for some more talent. Use websites like Monster, Craig's List, etc. to see what jobs are locally available then dress sharply and personally go to the business and deliver your resume. You can also investigate local recruiters they will probably interview you to see what you can do and then try to place you in a job that fits your talents.
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I've had zero luck. Even flipping burgers at McDonald's. Nothing.
Did you leave the service, then? :blah:
In any regard, I really understand these sentiments. I am however very happy, as today I just got my first actual job lined up for the summer as an intern with NIES Engineering, Inc. Something has to open up somewhere.
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I got three offers out of 15-odd applications and 5 interviews. They probably weren't my first choices but are still all good options.
It's often a good idea to probe academic/professional contacts and networks instead of directly applying on websites. That lets you bypass HR. The place I'll be working at actually ignored my online application completely, but I met someone from there at a conference a month later and sent him my stuff, after which the department head said they really wanted me and moved very quickly to make an offer.
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Did you leave the service, then? :blah:
Yeah.
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Kind of makes you wonder about all of those sunny looking statistics if finding a job sucks that much.
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I haven't really started applying yet (it's taken a while to psych myself up to it), but I have been poking around, and I haven't really seen much of anything that fits the concept of what I'd like to do. Exactly what can you do with a B.S. in Physics and the desire for research-type lab work, anyway?
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Talk to one of your former professors for starters. Next, precisely what is it you want to do, or enjoy doing?
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I don't know that my former professors would be the right types to talk to, considering how I performed in most of their classes. And the ***** of it is that I don't really know what I like to do or enjoy doing, other than sitting on my ass playing video games. :p
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I don't know that my former professors would be the right types to talk to, considering how I performed in most of their classes. And the ***** of it is that I don't really know what I like to do or enjoy doing, other than sitting on my ass playing video games. :p
I'd seriously be interested in working with anyone with a physics degree. Too bad we don't get to say what jobs there are, huh? :doubt:
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I've been more upbeat lately, but even as the economy recovers - and I think the recovery will continue - we need to remember a few facts.
There are currently 130.738 million payroll jobs in the U.S. (as of March 2011). There were 130.781 million payroll jobs in January 2000. So that is over eleven years with no increase in total payroll jobs.
And the median household income in constant dollars was $49,777 in 2009. That is barely above the $49,309 in 1997, and below the $51,100 in 1998. (Census data here in Excel).
Just a reminder that many Americans have been struggling for a decade or more. The aughts were a lost decade for most Americans.
And I'd like to think every U.S. policymaker wakes up every morning and reminds themselves of the following:
There are currently 7.25 million fewer payroll jobs than before the recession started in 2007, with 13.5 million Americans currently unemployed. Another 8.4 million are working part time for economic reasons, and about 4 million more workers have left the labor force. Of those unemployed, 6.1 million have been unemployed for six months or more.
So even as we start to discuss how to fix the structural budget deficit, and also to address the long term fiscal challenges from healthcare costs, we can't forget about all of these Americans.
Yes, other people have a ****ty time too.
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ive decided to give up work and just bum off the government, so far its worked out great. i have more disposable income than i ever had with a job.
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I actually quit my job about a month ago, because my boss was a drunk who had no accountability because he was the president's (of the company) son.
I haven't got a new one yet, but I will be getting a free plane ticket (maybe two, they seem rather disorganized) to Yorktown NY for an interview. I also have a company in Charlettesville VA that is a maybe.
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Guess what I'm doing? Not sleeping. Partly because I can't think about anything else other than finding a job. This is maddening, the system we have going now is bull****.
Well at least I've got company. If anyone's looking for a job in the aerospace field I have a contact or two. If you're looking for a job in the game dev field, this is a good resource:
http://gamedevmap.com/
Like I said, I'm looking for pretty much anything, preferably in the upper NY area, preferably relating to conceptualization, 3d modeling, etc. If anyone knows anyone, I'd appreciate it. :)
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Aerospace? I'm not even out of high school yet but that's one path I might take.
The amount of jobless people in the US is worrying though. When I finally get back I'll mostly be on my own...
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It's too bad everyone on the internet is so spread out. If there was a central place we could meet, we could start an internet collective for those of us who can't find jobs... :\
But yea, I'd worry too Pred. It's really not the nicest picture here...it seems like just enough students are getting some sort of job or living with their parents for it not to be a problem, but there's a huge student loan bubble brewing, and when that pops it's not going to be fun. :\
As for the Aerospace path, my one bit of advice; think for yourself. Aviation in America is being strangled by overregulation and underimagination. Be creative, have fun, don't think that aviation design is all number crunching. If you go through a college degree, that's all they'll make you do, but if you really want to design, be imaginative and think for yourself. Experiment. :) Don't turn into a highly-paid calculator.
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i can see it now, the hlp hippy compound. only if we can smoke gange all day, harvest grain to make bosch beer, form a modding cult. im all for it, so long as someone else contributes the illegal drugs.
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i can see it now, the hlp hippy compound. only if we can smoke gange all day, harvest grain to make bosch beer, form a modding cult. im all for it, so long as someone else contributes the illegal drugs.
I responded to a similar sort of sentiment in another thread...let me find the link...
EDIT: Found it:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=75573.msg1497429#msg1497429
The hippies were stupid.
It's not a hippie pipe dream to have functioning, stable communities wherein people work together for the common good and are able to sustain their own settlement via methods that don't rape the environment around them.
But in the US, everyone kind of just assumes that working and living together in communities ("communes") automatically equals hippies - even forgetting the country's own history with local townships, settler posts, and native american tribes. No, everyone remembers a bunch of long haired stoners with extraordinarily bad fashion sense.
That all being said, I do hold the belief that most all drugs should be legalized, and age limits placed as to where the person is given the legal option to choose to use the drug or not. If we can have 21 (way, way too old - stupidly so) for alcohol, why not something similar for other drugs?
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Well, Every job I've had (i think 3 so far) I have acquired through someone I know that works there. It's not what you know, it's who you know. Application spamming never seemed to work for me.
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i can see it now, the hlp hippy compound. only if we can smoke gange all day, harvest grain to make bosch beer, form a modding cult. im all for it, so long as someone else contributes the illegal drugs.
I responded to a similar sort of sentiment in another thread...let me find the link...
EDIT: Found it:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=75573.msg1497429#msg1497429
The hippies were stupid.
It's not a hippie pipe dream to have functioning, stable communities wherein people work together for the common good and are able to sustain their own settlement via methods that don't rape the environment around them.
But in the US, everyone kind of just assumes that working and living together in communities ("communes") automatically equals hippies - even forgetting the country's own history with local townships, settler posts, and native american tribes. No, everyone remembers a bunch of long haired stoners with extraordinarily bad fashion sense.
That all being said, I do hold the belief that most all drugs should be legalized, and age limits placed as to where the person is given the legal option to choose to use the drug or not. If we can have 21 (way, way too old - stupidly so) for alcohol, why not something similar for other drugs?
Read the reply below it.
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Good music though.
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Take some more Yahoo News. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110421/ap_on_re_us/us_ap_poll_high_school_to_unemployment)
The nation's economic upheaval has been especially hard on young people trying to start their working lives with a high school education or less. In a new Associated Press-Viacom survey, only about a third of the 18- to 24-year-olds who aren't in school said they have full-time jobs.
Well that made me feel a little better about myself.
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I haven't really started applying yet (it's taken a while to psych myself up to it), but I have been poking around, and I haven't really seen much of anything that fits the concept of what I'd like to do. Exactly what can you do with a B.S. in Physics and the desire for research-type lab work, anyway?
Pretty sure that if you want to research professionally, your best bet is a PhD, especially for something like Physics. Assuming you are still in college (your post makes it sound like you're getting towards the end of a B.S.) I would recommend asking your professors for career advice ASAP.
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No, I've actually been out of college for two years now. And given how that experience went, you couldn't pay me enough to go back for a Masters, let alone a Ph.D, at least not right now.
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That said Mongoose, what are your hobbies (aside from games)? Perhaps you ought to see if you can make use of the knowledge you have paired with your interests. You might even be able to create something useful.
:)
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No, I've actually been out of college for two years now. And given how that experience went, you couldn't pay me enough to go back for a Masters, let alone a Ph.D, at least not right now.
If it was the classes that got you down, grad school is way different from undergrad. It'll be more classes for a couple years, but they have much less importance than they once did. And the rest of the time, you WILL be doing research if you enroll in a Ph.D. program. Besides which, any reputable program (i.e., one that gives out Ph.D.'s, usually not the terminal masters programs) will pay you to go to school (nowadays usually between $22-32k a year, depending on cost of living). All this is presuming you live in the US, mind. Not sure how it is in other countries.
If you really don't want to go back and get a graduate degree, basic R&D may be out of reach, but you can do basically any other job you want, honestly. Doesn't matter if it's engineering, programming, or whatever else.
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Do not do a terminal masters.
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That said Mongoose, what are your hobbies (aside from games)? Perhaps you ought to see if you can make use of the knowledge you have paired with your interests. You might even be able to create something useful.
:)
Amusingly, I just had a therapist say pretty much exactly that a bit earlier today. :p
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On the subject of the recovery in the USA, didnt they call it a 'jobless recovery'?
At any rate, here in the Netherlands the economy isnt doing too good too, Dollar and Euro both seem to be in trouble, but i managed to get hired two days ago at a pretty good company in a medium sized city, and i'm very grateful for that too. Been trying for quite a while too, but with help of a contact it worked out. Seems the best way to find a job now, in Europe and the USA is to try to find contacts to bring you forward, and/or try to work from the bottom upwards in a company.
Reading that many people here, talented people that develop great stuff, have such trouble finding a suitable job.. Makes me want to be a millionaire and hire you all to produce stuff you want, to release ;)
But ah. Looks like it's definitely a good idea to make sure you got enough food supplies to last for months or years, to invest in such basic needs to make sure you dont end up in the bread lines. We got those here in some of the larger cities, tens of thousands of people for many years now - It's not a pretty sight.
So definitely take care to prepare for worse to come, since hearing this makes me rather fearful for you guys over there.
EDIT: Also, college was a waste of time for me. I didnt get in debts but I would definitely not advice going to college, uni, etc if that means getting into debt. Also if you are able to work up inside a company you can get a lot more experience in the meantime, in my opinion. Should be worth considering though.
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If it was the classes that got you down, grad school is way different from undergrad. It'll be more classes for a couple years, but they have much less importance than they once did. And the rest of the time, you WILL be doing research if you enroll in a Ph.D. program. Besides which, any reputable program (i.e., one that gives out Ph.D.'s, usually not the terminal masters programs) will pay you to go to school (nowadays usually between $22-32k a year, depending on cost of living). All this is presuming you live in the US, mind. Not sure how it is in other countries.
That's true, I will be finishing with pretty decent savings in hand. The courses do become much less relevant in these programs. Some programs have no required courses at all, only qualifying exams of some sort, and even when there are courses, nobody cares about how you did in them after the exam stage. On the other hand, a PhD is a major commitment and is only worth considering if you're really motivated by the field of study, and only certain fields and research topics lead to solid career options.
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But ah. Looks like it's definitely a good idea to make sure you got enough food supplies to last for months or years, to invest in such basic needs to make sure you dont end up in the bread lines. We got those here in some of the larger cities, tens of thousands of people for many years now - It's not a pretty sight.
Yea I'm going to start talking with my roommates about gathering money to start stocking up some food.
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il just shoot two bucks this year instead of just one (im allowed to shoot up to 6).
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You can try sites like Experience.com which cater to recent grads and other entry-level positions.
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Has anyone else had such a ****ty time? I can't seem to find anything. I've gotten two maybes - everything else has either not replied or flat out said no. With summer approaching I can't find a place to work...granted I've still been trying things that I could actually use a college degree for (industrial design/3d modeling/game design), but it's not like my local area (Rochester, N.Y.) has many jobs period. :doubt: Has anyone else had similar/better/worse luck?
Did you refuse to divulge your marks?
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Has anyone else had such a ****ty time? I can't seem to find anything. I've gotten two maybes - everything else has either not replied or flat out said no. With summer approaching I can't find a place to work...granted I've still been trying things that I could actually use a college degree for (industrial design/3d modeling/game design), but it's not like my local area (Rochester, N.Y.) has many jobs period. :doubt: Has anyone else had similar/better/worse luck?
Did you refuse to divulge your marks?
Only once, because only one company asked for it. They even wrote me back when I didn't do it.
Part of the reply I sent, where I told them some other personal details they asked for (school, graduation date, etc);
"I believe that my work, not my GPA, should say whether or not I am fit for your consideration. With all due respect, I decline to give it. If this excludes me from candidacy, then the best I can do is wish you a pleasant day and hope you find the individual you're looking for."
Their response:
"I understand your point of view on the GPA thing. However, as this may become a common question for you, I would double check the wording of your response with someone else, as it comes off as a bit aggressive. I’m sure that is the last impression you want to give to a prospective employer."
Kudos to the restraint on their part, but I stand by the words that I said. No job, especially an art job (one that I was applying for) should require students to have good marks to get it. I'm sorry but that is school - a place where you're supposed to be allowed to make mistakes. That's how you experiment, which is what helps you learn. Having your entire life be a one-shot deal - either you get good grades and get a good job, or you **** up and you're ****ed for life - that's wrong. On so many levels. In another thread we were discussing a theoretical situation wherein people were not hiring other people because their IQ's weren't high enough. This would be pretty close to that IMO.
I'm sure people are going to give me flak for complaining about not getting a job when I do stuff like this, but, well...I stand by what I believe in as best I can. If it means that I close a few doors on myself, then I guess I shouldn't have taken those doors anyway.
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You should probably deal with the fact that your GPA sucked instead of trying to turn it into a moral thing
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You should probably deal with the fact that your GPA sucked instead of trying to turn it into a moral thing
I've made the dean's list a few years running now. I also care about principles and morals. Cheers.
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I think the probability that you are covering because you screwed up severely somewhere on your academic track is higher.
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Um...ok? If you want to debate my academic transcript, please take it to PM. I personally feel that I have said all that is necessary on the topic.
EDIT: Now back on topic for the rest of us...does anyone else have any more job hunting tips for folks? One thing I'd suggest is definitely talk to grad students. They're the ones with the *in* degree right now (basically what a bachelor's used to be), and are in reasonable demand. Talk to them about maybe scoring you a job. :)
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Professional certifications may be a great route in as well for most industries. Most require a Bachelor's degree or field experience, some require both. Others may require a graduate degree plus experience. Regardless, having something to append to your name puts you on the top of the pile for related positions.
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You should probably deal with the fact that your GPA sucked instead of trying to turn it into a moral thing
I've made the dean's list a few years running now. I also care about principles and morals. Cheers.
Yeah, if you haven't been interning and accruing experience in the field then your college performance is the only thing prospective employers have to evaluate your ability to do the job. Make no mistake companies do not owe you employment, they are looking for the best candidate to fill the position, your're not entitled to one just because you went to college. If you have a stick up your ass about giving them the information they need to decide whether or not you are worth hiring then you need to work that out of your system PDQ. That or you can keep up the Henry David Thoreau vibe.
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-Has already been said in a much better way with a lot more arguments etc.-
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It might just be a good idea, by instead of saying: "You can't do this!" ask: Why do you do this, because I don't feel right about it.
That way you can actually learn, gain understaing of others, and gain understanding of yourself and improve yourself.
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You should probably deal with the fact that your GPA sucked instead of trying to turn it into a moral thing
I've made the dean's list a few years running now. I also care about principles and morals. Cheers.
The thing is, such a patent refusal to reveal your GPA will lead prospective employers to the same assumption that Battuta made. Couple this with the fact that you've probably been at university longer than any individual job you've had, and your studies might well be the only thing you've done in your specific field, and this assumption that you're hiding your GPA because it's low becomes the only thing a hiring manager has by which to judge your ability.
Yes, it sucks that you spend three to five years working your tail off to generate one number that's supposed to aggregate all of your accomplishments, but until you have extensive experience in the field, that number is your biggest advocate. The reason it's your biggest advocate is because it is the quickest, easiest way for hiring managers to compare applicants for entry-level positions. When you've got a ream of résumés coming in from fresh graduates, you want to see the GPA to get a sense of which candidates are worth investing the time to view their portfolios and/or bring in for interviews. Most companies, especially with unemployment hovering around ten percent, don't have the available man-hours to interview every candidate, so GPA becomes a heuristic to select candidates investigate further. Yes, some good candidates get eliminated at this stage, and some bad candidates sneak through to the interview step, but it's a matter of practicality, not principle.
I really do understand where you're coming from, but you've got to consider the issue from the perspective of the hiring company as well.
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I think the probability that you are covering because you screwed up severely somewhere on your academic track is higher.
trolololol
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keep in mind you are in competition with a large number of people, you need to pull every advantage you can at every stage of the game.
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That and the company might suspect that your GPA is low because you didn't try and went out and got wasted ~ missed tests ~ showed up late to class, not because you were bored out of your mind and your classes had you mindlessly computing and spewing meaningless (to you at that time) data instead of applying it.
How is the hiring company supposed to know that you are one and not the other? If they hire you and you are a (to them) worthless slob, that's a ton of money and resources + unemployment when they fire you, straight down the toilet.
For them, the risk of hiring you if you are a bad employee far outweighs (because of the percentage of 'bad' aka loss-incurring employees to 'good' aka profitable ones that they might run across) the potential benefits if you are a brilliant, hard-working person who was just bored in university.
HR's job as the gate-keeper in the hiring process is to screen the companies from loss and bring in people who will increase the company's revenue, and they are trying to do just that.
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It's okay to stand up for what you believe in (not handing over GPA's). It might count as a black mark against you, but probably not unsurmountable. Your response, in my view, was the clincher.
It might not have been the end of the line for you, not having your GPA. But responding in a that aggressive manner gives a bad impression of your personality. I would suggest that if you do avoid sending your GPA, then be polite about it. It can't hurt.