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Anyone else watch it last night?
Apparently it didn't get great reviews, for being too 'intellectual', but personally I really love the new ideas coming out of the show here, much more is being made of the whole 'Time' part of Timelord, without falling into the Star Trek trap of making time the solution rather than the problem. Certainly got me wanting to see part 2. Besides, there's enough 'non-intellectual' stuff on at primetimes on a Saturday, so why not having something you need to engage your brain for?
Personally, I suspect the girl in the Spacesuit is a certain main character, back when the Doctor knew everything about her, and she's doing what she always said she would do, but it will be fascinating to see how they solve this riddle
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Yer, the ep was a good one
you thinking river?
I am really interested in the alien MIBs all over the show and how long it would seem they have been on earth
natural neuraliser powers?
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Loved the episode. Was most upset to suddenly find it was a two parter. :p
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Loved the episode. Was most upset to suddenly find it was a two parter. :p
Same here. Loved the episode, another Steven Moffet "the stuff that you fear as a child is real" story.
I knew it was going to be a two parter (I had seen the list of episode titles and air dates), but what got me was that way that Space handled it. They just cut from Amy shooting to commercial.
Then after commercial the credits were rolling. I thought I had missed something somewhere.
you thinking river?
If it is River you think that she would let on that she knows where this is going.
I know, I know, "Spoilers",
but that hasn't stopped her from letting something slip before, though that could be what the cryptic comment about "worse days to come" (iirc) to Amy is about.
The other thing, if it is River, how did she use the phone, the cord was cut.
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Well, I think that River is just as capable of lying as the Doctor, and there was one tiny moment...
When River tries to shoot the spacesuited figure returning to the water and the bullets have no effect she says "Of course not...". I'm wondering what that comment related to.
Edit: There's also a hint in the season trailers that River knows what is going on when she mentions that this is the time the Doctor will be at both his highest and his lowest points.
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When River tries to shoot the spacesuited figure returning to the water and the bullets have no effect she says "Of course not...".
I'm wondering what that comment related to.
I don't think it's anything majorly spoiler-worthy. She's just genre-savvy (http://www.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GenreSavvy) enough to know that anything plot-related on 'Who' will be immune to bullets (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ImmuneToBullets) and likely to spawn tvtropes marathons besides.
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Goddamn it. Mark Sheppard has been at odds with Mal Reynolds, ridden Battlestars, and now cavorted with The Doctor. He's fast becoming my favourite all-purpose sci-fi actor. Supernatural and Dollhouse too, come to think of it. He's bloody everywhere!
Anyway, loved the episode. Really liking the darker tone. Can't wait to see where it goes.
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Always good to see Romo Lamkin in action one more time :)
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Always good to see Romo Lamkin in action one more time :)
That's President of the Colonies Romo Lampkin, to you. :p
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Goddamn it. Mark Sheppard has been at odds with Mal Reynolds, ridden Battlestars, and now cavorted with The Doctor. He's fast becoming my favourite all-purpose sci-fi actor. Supernatural and Dollhouse too, come to think of it. He's bloody everywhere!
Not to mention that his dad was the Soul Hunter from B5. (Just in case you recognised the older version of the same character from the beach scene).
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Not to mention that his dad was the Soul Hunter from B5. (Just in case you recognised the older version of the same character from the beach scene).
Holy ****, I had no idea! That's awesome!
+1 to Doctor Who casting. Seriously.
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Good way to start a series. A nice drama episode rather than the normal fun and funny season opener.
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Holy ****, I had no idea! That's awesome!
+1 to Doctor Who casting. Seriously.
The second I heard his voice I knew I recognised him from somewhere. Thankfully we have the IMDB now rather than me having to spend days and days trying to figure out where I'd heard it before. :D
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Loved the episode. Was most upset to suddenly find it was a two parter. :p
AMEN. It was way too short, should have aired both parts all at once =)
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Loved it, can't wait for the next one. Hey, did anyone else get a Slenderman vibe from the aliens? Oh and about
Not being able to tell the Doctor he died, because of the whole paradox thing. What about the "if a paradox happens it, by definition, ceases to be a paradox and the universe will probably get over it."
Someone here said that in a thread about FTL travel, I believe.
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This was my first exposure to New Who in a while (I tried watching some of the Tennant era but it was just too silly) and I really liked it.
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This was my first exposure to New Who in a while (I tried watching some of the Tennant era but it was just too silly) and I really liked it.
Since the beginning of Series 5 there's a partially new team that is doing the production and thus it's a bit different in feel than before. With Series 6 I think they have really hit their stride...
I love the Impossible Astronaut and I'm very much looking forward to the conclusion. Also it looks like there will be quite a few two parters... sounds pretty frenetic and serious this time around. I still love the fun bits. "That's legs, nose and Mrs. Robinson".. hilarious :)
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This was my first exposure to New Who in a while (I tried watching some of the Tennant era but it was just too silly) and I really liked it.
The Tennant era got a bit too emo near the end for my tastes, on the whole he was a good Doctor but when he started to become a 'sex symbol' to Dr Who fans, RTD started writing for that and made him a bit too 'human' for my tastes, give me Matt Smith and his occasionally hilarious misinterpretations of human rituals and behaviour any day.
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Well, I think that River is just as capable of lying as the Doctor, and there was one tiny moment...
No doubt. We also don't know specifically why she is in prison.
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Apparently it didn't get great reviews, for being too 'intellectual', but personally I really love the new ideas coming out of the show here, much more is being made of the whole 'Time' part of Timelord, without falling into the Star Trek trap of making time the solution rather than the problem. Certainly got me wanting to see part 2. Besides, there's enough 'non-intellectual' stuff on at primetimes on a Saturday, so why not having something you need to engage your brain for?
Really???? all the reviews i read gave it glowing praises. I loved it truly epic season openner, just hope the rest of the series is like this. Just the right balance of action/horror/drama and comedy. Also i don't wish to offend any americans but i am sorry i thought that this scene was extremely funny and classic.
doctor - "don't worry they won't shoot"
river - "doctor they're americans"
doctor "DON'T SHOOT!!!!!!"
i bet you a tenner amys pregnancy has something to do with the silents, bet they got here pregant or is that to obvious for steven moffat?
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doctor - "don't worry they won't shoot"
river - "doctor they're americans"
doctor "DON'T SHOOT!!!!!!"
That was pretty good. I actually missed it the first time I watched it.
i bet you a tenner amys pregnancy has something to do with the silents, bet they got here pregant or is that to obvious for steven moffat?
I am not entirely convinced that Amy is actually pregnant. I think it may be the "explanation" of the stomach pains that everyone (even Rory) gets after seeing the Silence.
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I'm not completely convinced the aliens in this episode are connected with The Silence yet. Their voices are very different for one thing and The Silence quite clearly tells The Doctor to fear him rather than fear us.[/Spoilers]
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This is actually a spoiler, be advised, awooga wooga wooga wooga
All the spoilers I read suggested these dudes really were the Silence. But I could be wrong!
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I'm not completely convinced the aliens in this episode are connected with The Silence yet. Their voices are very different for one thing and The Silence quite clearly tells The Doctor to fear him rather than fear us.
I am pretty sure that they are connected with the Silence, either they *are* the Silence or they have been displaced by the Silence like the vampires in Venice.
This is actually a spoiler, be advised, awooga wooga wooga wooga
All the spoilers I read suggested these dudes really were the Silence. But I could be wrong!
Same here, that is why I called them the Silence.
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So, that raised more questions than answers.
The little girl is a Time Lord (or at least can regenerate) and knows it. The Doctor wants to avoid her. If she is River Song that sort of changes things. Is she Jenny?
The AiBs (aliens in black) are "The Silence".
Since the TARDIS can't decide if Amy is pregnant, does that mean, like Amy worried, that the child is not human (ie, is the little girl)?
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Doubt she's River, because then she'd be crossing her own timeline, and that's typically a Bad Idea.
Ditto for Jenny, but only because we saw her "born" and the Doctor's never regenerated back into childhood before, so I doubt it'd happen. Plus, we don't know if Jenny can regenerate or not, since the last time we saw her, her resurrection was NOT a regeneration.
I think the TARDIS doesn't know because time doesn't know yet. If it were just an unknown, I think it would flip to something like "inconclusive," but instead it actively switches back and forth.
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The little girl in the spacesuit is Amy's and the Doctors..? Either that or it's Rory's and Amy's and "timehead" wasn't just a little joke, but yea, the girl in the spacesuit = Amy's kid.
I doubt it's River, though I suppose that's not impossible, if it IS then none of the cast will find out.
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Fascinating Episode:
The fact is, the little girl could not have regenerated until after she killed the Doctor in her own timeline. This leads to an interesting position, bearing in mind the fact that this is the Doctors brightest and darkest moments that are coming. It's been hinted that the child is Amy's, it's almost certain that the child has regeneration, and so almost certainly was engineered by the Silence for some reason, possibly to kill the Doctor by using his two greatest weaknesses, Children and his own people. Is the child River? I honestly don't know any more.
Lovely dynamic between the Doctor and River this episode, felt the tragedy of the situation for her at the end :(
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Uhh, how do we know that the kid had to kill the doctor to get the power to regenerate? Did I miss something?
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That really was quite good. It was a bit of a gimme to
have the captive Silence speak those words, in fact honestly that bit made very little sense, but it led to a cool climax. Kind of a shame Who has always been too cheerful to make its villains really menacing.
Uhh, how do we know that the kid had to kill the doctor to get the power to regenerate? Did I miss something?
Flipside's assuming the spacesuit is not traveling through time and that the child was inside it when it shot and killed the future-Doctor; chronologically all of our sightings of the child have come after that. Or at least I think I follow it that way.
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That really was quite good. It was a bit of a gimme to have the captive Silence speak those words, in fact honestly that bit made very little sense, but it led to a cool climax. Kind of a shame Who has always been too cheerful to make its villains really menacing.
Uhh, how do we know that the kid had to kill the doctor to get the power to regenerate? Did I miss something?
Flipside's assuming the spacesuit is not traveling through time and that the child was inside it when it shot and killed the future-Doctor; chronologically all of our sightings of the child have come after that. Or at least I think I follow it that way.
More or less, yes :)
Also (assuming it was the child in the Spacesuit, which isn't confirmed) because the thing about regeneration is that you look different. Of course, for all I know, this could be the big return of the Master, though personally, I greatly doubt it.
.
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That really was quite good. It was a bit of a gimme to have the captive Silence speak those words, in fact honestly that bit made very little sense, but it led to a cool climax. Kind of a shame Who has always been too cheerful to make its villains really menacing.
Well, we've established that the Doctor can also cause a post-hypnotic suggestion to take hold simply while someone's looking at the Silence (the bowtie bit early on), and Matt's not been the most pacifistic of the Doctors. With his own words wasn't necessary, just extra hilarity. They didn't have to hang themselves. They just happened to.
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...and Matt's not been the most pacifistic of the Doctors.
You can say that again. Ten would've **** a space brick over annihilating the Silence like that.
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Silence alien: We don't need weapons! We have ruled this planet of centuries..
Mark Sheppard: (shoots it) Welcome to America!
:D
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Damn good episode! I'm really enjoying this season of Who.
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Is there any way the BBC allows to watch episodes you missed online?
Because I missed it...
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If you're in the UK, they should be on iPlayer.
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I'll just say that I didn't think the show would get any better two seasons ago. And they've been consistently proving me wrong ever since.
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I look forward to finding out who the Silence are. The Daleks are definately returning - To be allowed to use the Daleks, the BBC is contracted by the Terry Nation to use use them at least once a season
Out Of the 3 Doctors from 'New Who' Matt Smith is the best.
Chris - Too moody. Didn't stick around long enough to like, unlike Colin Baker
David - Good, but too happy or Human most of the time. I liked him better when he was more 'Alien'
Matt - Plays him more in line with the classic series. More what I expect the character to be
But what clinches it for me, - NO ROSE TYLER. DEAR GOD! She was SO bad, she made Bonnie Langford's Mel awesome.
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lol the Terry Nation
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Matt Smith is basically the most un-Doctor of the Doctors ever created, excepting 8. Presiding over racial genocide? wtf Matt?
I mean, yes, he's pretty awesome, but still.
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Sylvester McCoy once attempted to destroy the Dalek home planet. Hell, I think he succeeded IIRC.
Besides he did try to give them a chance to surrender. :p
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Sylvester McCoy once attempted to destroy the Dalek home planet. Hell, I think he succeeded IIRC.
Besides he did try to give them a chance to surrender. :p
Genesis of the Daleks says no. :P
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh_Doctor#Biography
The Doctor began taking a more scheming and proactive approach to defeating evil, using the Gallifreyan stellar manipulator named the Hand of Omega as part of an elaborate trap for the Daleks which resulted in the destruction of their home planet, Skaro.
Thought so.
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Interesting. Skaro has come and gone a few times then; Chris was make references to it "burning" during the Time War.
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Interesting. Skaro has come and gone a few times then; Chris was make references to it "burning" during the Time War.
True, but given that it was a time war, it's understandable if reality got a little bit wibbly-wobbly.
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Interesting. Skaro has come and gone a few times then; Chris was make references to it "burning" during the Time War.
I'm pretty sure he referred to Gallifrey burning. Not certain if he ever said that about Skaro. I seem to remember reading that the new series never contradicted the 7th doctor's destruction of the planet. It's of course worth mentioning that just because the 7th doctor blew up Skaro some time in the 20th century it doesn't mean that that the 9th+ doctor might need to sort out plans from earlier than that.
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Interesting. Skaro has come and gone a few times then; Chris was make references to it "burning" during the Time War.
I'm pretty sure he referred to Gallifrey burning. Not certain if he ever said that about Skaro. I seem to remember reading that the new series never contradicted the 7th doctor's destruction of the planet. It's of course worth mentioning that just because the 7th doctor blew up Skaro some time in the 20th century it doesn't mean that that the 9th+ doctor might need to sort out plans from earlier than that.
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Skaro
SUPPOSED DESTRUCTION OF SKARO
The possible destruction of Skaro. (DW: Remembrance of the Daleks
Skaro was apparently destroyed when, as planned by the Seventh Doctor, the Hand of Omega caused its sun to go supernova. (DW: Remembrance of the Daleks)
SURVIVAL OF SKARO
The Dalek Prime later claimed that Skaro had not in fact been destroyed. The Daleks, during their invasion of Earth in the 22nd century, had discovered records that showed Skaro's destruction. An attempt to change history was unsuccessful.
This refers to the Daleks' invasion of the alternative 22nd century Earth. (DW: Day of the Daleks)
The Daleks decided to terraform the planet Antalin to resemble Skaro as a decoy and manipulated Davros and the Doctor into ensuring that Antalin was destroyed in place of the original Skaro. (EDA: War of the Daleks)
The Dalek Prime's explanation is very convoluted and possibly untrue. It is entirely possible that Skaro had in fact been destroyed, and the Dalek Prime invented this story in order to maintain the Daleks' threat.
However, Skaro was later devastated during the Last Great Time War (DW: Daleks in Manhattan).
After the new Progenitor Daleks escaped, they travelled to Skaro and rebuilt the Dalek Emperor, their city of Kaalann and later their whole Empire. The Eleventh Doctor discovered that the New Dalek Empire had invaded Earth in 1963. He went to the rebuilt city of Kaalann and discovered that the Daleks had found the Eye of Time, a Time Lord device that helped them alter Earth's timeline. Using the Eye, the Doctor was able to travel to Kaalann when it was ruined and before the Daleks arrived. He managed to sabotage the Daleks' vision, allowing him to deactivate the Eye. The timeline returned to normal and the New Dalek Empire and their invasion of Earth was erased. Skaro was also reverted to a ruined state, as it was before the Daleks arrived. (VG: City of the Daleks)
BEHIND THE SCENES
CONTINUITY CONTROVERSY
- John Peel's explanation in War of the Daleks that the Doctor did not really destroy Skaro at the end of Remembrance of the Daleks, and that, instead a planet called Antalin was destroyed, has not been met with great approval among Doctor Who fans.
- No explanation has been given for why Skaro once again exists in 'City of the Daleks'.
It is more than likely a different Skaro, probably terraformed to be similar to the original. Skaro might mean home or world in the language of the Daleks.
so in other words Skaro is getting to be one complicated plot hole
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Hmmm.. Well, the Doctor did state that before the Time War, they used to hop Universes with ease, so maybe the Daleks just went to a Universe where they didn't evolve and pinched that Skaro as a replacement using the same technologies they used in The Stolen Earth. That'd probably be the simplest explanation to me.
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...they used to hop Universes with ease...
...just went to a Universe where they didn't evolve...
...pinched that Skaro as a replacement...
That'd probably be the simplest explanation to me.
Your definition of simple doesn't translate well from English to Sanity.
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That'd probably be the simplest explanation to me.
Holy ****, my irony detector just melted down!
You're paying for that :mad:
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Well, it's considerably more likely than the Doctor not spotting a forgery :p
And it doesn't seem all that complex an idea to me, in some universes, the Cybermen didn't originate on Earth, whereas in the one Ten visited, they did, so all sorts of things are possible. At the very least it provides a non-reset-button explanation that involves stuff we've already seen ;)
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Wibbly wobbly...timey wimey :)
A show that has been running as long as Doctor Who is inevitably going to have inconsistencies. Episode to episode I think they should do their best to be strongly consistent but over so many seasons and so many decades it's going to get hard. Each doctor has a new spin on things... keeps things fresh and interesting!
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We are also talking about a show that had fat turning into an alien life form, Bertie Bassets evil twin and a Space-Pirate complete with eyepatch and robot parrot (which was, incidentally, killed by a robot dog). It's odd to think that for all of the show being famous for its scary aliens, it also created some of the most hilarious ;)
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Interesting episode last night, interesting, but....
having watched The Lonely Child, I had a pretty strong suspicion of what was going on. That was my main gripe, it's similarity to that particular episode.
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The background storyline continues :
This so far has left me completely stumped, the story is being told backwards, I think. It all centres around two things that I can detect, the woman with the eyepatch and Amy's baby. First return of a Timelord story since Ten, next weeks one could be interesting indeed
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I'm hearing something about Silence and Weeping Angels in the same episode, but it doesn't appear to be the next or this one...
So at what point am I scheduled to wet myself in terror then?
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Saw Ood in the preview for next week's episode. Thoughts?
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Saw Ood in the preview for next week's episode. Thoughts?
not only an Ood but an Ood with a green translater/brain/orb shaped thing
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With regards to the Ood:
Its translator device is broken. The Doctor fixes it for him next week and the moment he turns it on a bunch of voices start babbling out of it, which kind of sets the Doctor off because they are speaking in Galifreyan
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Isn't the next episode the one Neil Gaiman wrote?
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It is indeed. :)
I'm really looking forwards to it. Although it looks like the voice that claims to have killed hundreds of time lords in the Series trailer isn't The Silence as I'd assumed earlier.
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I'm heavily dissuaded by the title of the episode being "The Doctor's Wife".
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It's that which is so interesting about it to my mind, because it doesn't seem to be referring to River in any way, I think it's referring to the woman he talks to in the trailer. Guess we'll find out next week though :)
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It's that which is so interesting about it to my mind, because it doesn't seem to be referring to River in any way, I think it's referring to the woman he talks to in the trailer. Guess we'll find out next week though :)
We know she's not his mother. :P
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Gaiman wouldn't be writing a River Song episode. Those tend to be Moffat's work.
That goes double for something that was meant to be a season 5 episode that was postponed for mainly budgetary reasons.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-13353367
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Well, whether he likes it or not, it's going to happen. That's why most Forums come with a Spoiler tag, so that people who don't want to know don't have to look.
He should bloody well know that considering River Song's catchphrase is "Spoilers"....
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There's a difference between posting something with spoiler tags and going into a fan screening and posting the exact plot online before the episode even airs. There's just something dishonest feeling about it, especially if NDAs are used.
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I can't say I blame him. I'd be tempted to say "No more fan screenings till you permaban this twat" :p
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DALEKS COME BACK AT SOME POINT !!!!!!!!!!
TWISTSHOCKHORROR
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Meeting the TARDIS was fun
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Meeting House, on the other hand, was not.
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In my opinion, the best of the series so far, utterly enjoyable episode :D
The expulsion of the House was one of the few moments in recent TV that have had me punching the air, and I loved the Steampunk doctor with his goggles on.
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I am not sure I am happy with the venom the doctor used, it still feels out of character
I got the impression the TARDIS was supposed to kill House
and it is a theme that is starting through this series that when the doc is confronted with an entity or group that is "evil" or at least on the darker side of grey he is happy to let and/or encourage their death rather than look for ways to detain them, remove them to a place they can't cause harm, redirect their attention or remove their ability to cause harm.
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Yep, back to old school Doctor Who.
Fact is, it was made perfectly clear that this creature had murdered many of his people, killed several Tardis' and was perfectly prepared to kill the Doctor and his companions and, worse still, it tried to kill the TARDIS. This is not David Tennants doctor, there's no agonising over decisions any more, he made the ultimate decision and threw his people into destruction, and I think he's a lot more comfortable about where he stands and what he is prepared to do to achieve his goals. Maybe 10 would have got all emo about it, but 11 ain't that kind of guy, he's not NICE, he's the Doctor, and you don't screw with him.
As for The House, it's dead enough to suit the episode, but not so dead that it can never return ;)
Edit: I have to refer to it as 'The House' because 'House' makes me think of the Tardis being taking over by Hugh Laurie....
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That's fair enough I suppose
No body so cant write out the death cert yet lol. If and when It come back I wonder what form it will come back in and what name it will use.
Also I hope they don't use the talking to the TARDIS thing again, as intriguing and in some ways informative as it was, to do it again would loose that which would be a shame.
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Yeah, I think they tried to stress the fact that this was the only time they ever meet (the Tardis states as much, and since it remembers the entirety of Space and Time, that's pretty final) and that it was impossible to make the Tardis talk again, otherwise you'd reduce a great idea to something resembling Holly from Red Dwarf.
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I am not sure I am happy with the venom the doctor used, it still feels out of character
I got the impression the TARDIS was supposed to kill House
and it is a theme that is starting through this series that when the doc is confronted with an entity or group that is "evil" or at least on the darker side of grey he is happy to let and/or encourage their death rather than look for ways to detain them, remove them to a place they can't cause harm, redirect their attention or remove their ability to cause harm.
The Doctor gave The House a chance to not go back on its word. Despite all that he had done he still gave him a chance. I've never been a fan of the whole Good = Lawful Stupid that some people seem to think it should mean.
Besides it wasn't the Doctor who killed him. It was completely up to the TARDIS to decide.
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Yeah, I think they tried to stress the fact that this was the only time they ever meet (the Tardis states as much, and since it remembers the entirety of Space and Time, that's pretty final) and that it was impossible to make the Tardis talk again, otherwise you'd reduce a great idea to something resembling Holly from Red Dwarf.
Though apparently he can talk *to* the TARDIS, not that is a particular surprise. The TARDIS always seems to be listening to what the occupant says (usually when convenient in the plot).
Besides it wasn't the Doctor who killed him. It was completely up to the TARDIS to decide.
Well, like Darvos reminded 10, The Doctor never kills anyone himself.
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You take ordinary people and fashion them into weapons.
I loved the ep, couldn't help but think of an insidious Portal 2 when House was messing with the TARDIS
<3 The TARDIS :<
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Tardis episode was good episode.
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I'll say this for Gaiman, he really knows how to put you on the Rollercoaster. You laugh, you cry, you cheer, you cry again and then you end up laughing. I personally think it's going to go down as one of the all time classic Who episodes. At the very least, it will for me.
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the use of the fact that space and time in the TARDIS is relative to the perception of each person was pretty good as well.
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I want to pork Miss Pond. . . . . . . . I also want to drill the Tardis :D
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Soooo...
What *IS* the House?
At first I thought he might have been the soul of a TARDIS, but then I realized he would have known how to work the TARDIS and how to get back to the universe.
Then I thought he might be like the Demon of the Black Sun, since he was controlling the Ood telepathically (the green eyes). Haven't come up with a challenge to that, but it just seems weird.
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That is an excellent question Scotty. The demon idea likewise doesn't sit with me.
There was a mention about the area that the house planetoid thing occupied was flooded with rift energy so perhaps the entity was dragged or fell out of the universe. Though to survive that and not be rendered non existent would take a being of extraordinary power, perhaps House was related to a TARDIS in some way with it drawing on TARDIS energy and able to work the TARDIS systems.
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I SHIP DOCTOR/TARDIS
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I SHIP DOCTOR/TARDIS
You silly man, the TARDIS is a ship!
Great, great episode. Loved the emotional moments, the action was awesome, and seeing the TARDIS directly interacting with the Doctor was pretty damn awesome. Plus, ****ing loved the fanservice of having the coral control room making a re-appearance. Made me damn nostalgic of Tennant's days. I was actually kind of bummed that it was "deleted," though.
And look, I appreciate the need for spoilers if we're getting into future thoughts and information on un-aired episodes. But really, if you come into a thread called "NEW DOCTOR WHO" and expect a spoiler-free experience on episodes that have already aired, you shouldn't be on the intartubes.
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I SHIP RIVERSONG/RIVERTAM
(and sometimes RiverTam/Cameron/Orwell)
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I am not sure I am happy with the venom the doctor used, it still feels out of character
I got the impression the TARDIS was supposed to kill House
and it is a theme that is starting through this series that when the doc is confronted with an entity or group that is "evil" or at least on the darker side of grey he is happy to let and/or encourage their death rather than look for ways to detain them, remove them to a place they can't cause harm, redirect their attention or remove their ability to cause harm.
You realise that one of 11's most awesome phrases is "Basically... RUN". I like the new Doctor's method of making sure a problem won't be coming back. And yeah, that last episode was good.
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I SHIP DOCTOR/TARDIS
Great, great episode. Loved the emotional moments, the action was awesome, and seeing the TARDIS directly interacting with the Doctor was pretty damn awesome. Plus, ****ing loved the fanservice of having the coral control room making a re-appearance. Made me damn nostalgic of Tennant's days. I was actually kind of bummed that it was "deleted," though.
Nostalgia for "The Man Who Never Would?" Bah! Give me subliminal mass xenocide any day.
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Pretty good episode this week, though the hamming in the first couple of minutes scared me.
Hmmmm....A second Doctor, am I detecting a hint on how the Doctor could die in the first episode and yet survive as well? I'm wondering if my original theory is correct, that the 'real' doctor is in fact that child, and that is why it is his darkest moment?
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I think the astronaut might be River Song. The problem is I can't figure out why she is prison for killing the Doctor but yet surprised it happened.
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I think the astronaut might be River Song. The problem is I can't figure out why she is prison for killing the Doctor but yet surprised it happened.
Spoilers.
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Well that answered a lot of questions.... only to leave us with a metric ****-ton more.
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Yeah, definitely still in a state of :wtf:...
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And I must scream, for real?
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Well I'm assuming something happened during the time between the end of episode 1 and the start of episode 2. We didn't see the eyepatch woman in ep1 did we?
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I don't think we did....
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we did, while amy was looking for rory after he ran of with stretch.
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shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
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When exactly was that? I checked on Wikipedia and they say this
The Eye Patch Lady previously made brief appearances in "Day of the Moon", "The Curse of the Black Spot" and "The Rebel Flesh".
in the write up for this weeks episode.
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When exactly was that? I checked on Wikipedia and they say this
The Eye Patch Lady previously made brief appearances in "Day of the Moon", "The Curse of the Black Spot" and "The Rebel Flesh".
in the write up for this weeks episode.
I remember the pirate lady too in that episode (the one before this week's, first of a two parter story about the goo people). Can't tell you the exact timecode because I'm at work now but the man's right she did appear.
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Well I'm assuming something happened during the time between the end of episode 1 and the start of episode 2. We didn't see the eyepatch woman in ep1 did we?
We'll steven Moffat has been teasing us now, saying that Amy may have been replaced before series 6 but after the Christmas special. I know alot of people didn't enjoy S5 of seem to like moffats approach, but i am really enjoying this darker toned series and i really like the 11 doc. Also Cybermen return this saturday, they had better have them doing some converting as recent cybermen stories they just seem to be potrayed as more robots that cyborgs. Also Silurians are back and a Sontaran as well. Should be an interesting mid season finale!
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There is a problem with next episode being first of a two-parter, from what I've heard. It'll be a looong wait.
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There is a problem with next episode being first of a two-parter, from what I've heard. It'll be a looong wait.
It feels more like part 3. There is a lot more direct continuation this series, until this series it has been more individual episodes strung together with a few 2 parters for good measure but this series feels more like an ongoing story, I think it will need to be watched in order to make sense.
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I'm just saying that next week there will be a cliffhanger as big as the one from the last episode, but it'll last for three months instead of a week.
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A thought occurred to me earlier today. The Silence actually clear up a lot of plot holes in the show. Until 1969 The Silence lived on Earth. They're not going to want to see it destroyed. So any time you've seen the Doctor appear to have too much information for one of his guesses or seen an alien do something stupid on the point of victory you can now say that The Silence are responsible. :D
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A thought occurred to me earlier today. The Silence actually clear up a lot of plot holes in the show. Until 1969 The Silence lived on Earth. They're not going to want to see it destroyed. So any time you've seen the Doctor appear to have too much information for one of his guesses or seen an alien do something stupid on the point of victory you can now say that The Silence are responsible. :D
I wonder how The MIB (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Men_in_Black) and Alliance of Shades (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Alliance_of_Shades) fit in with the silence?
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I'm just saying that next week there will be a cliffhanger as big as the one from the last episode, but it'll last for three months instead of a week.
I don't mind that, gives me something to look forward to in the autumn and also Torchwood miracle day starts up in July, so there's that!
At least we get to finally find out who River is on sat, also i am now wondering if some of the monsters in it, ie Silurians and sontarans will be helping the doctor, as the synopsis is that the doctor is recruiting an army and calling in old debts to help him find Amy. I reckon the Silurians might be one of the ones to help him as he did try and help them. Also i think the sontaran as will as one of the images the BBC has released has what looks like one standing side by side with Rory who both look they there about to attack something. I could be totally wrong but i think it would be an interesting twist that the doc goes to his enemies for help, hes done it before. Hes worked with the master on numerous occasions. Hes also briefly worked with the daleks at one point.
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you thinking river?
You heard it here first folks.
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OK watched the episode, Really enjoyed it! Cybermen should have had a bigger role, instead of cameo!! :hopping: (what i love the Cybermen)
River Song is Amy's baby, saw that one coming. Was hoping that her identity would be more shocking but hey. Headless monks pretty rubbish, how the hell do they chant their prays without a head or even alive?
The main heroes of the story for me where Commander Strax what an awesome sontaran nurse!!! pure genius! Also Madame Vastra and Jenny brillant characters!! I hope they comeback!
Edit next episode Lets kill hitler, errmm...... i think that title may cause a couple of problems.
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Children, this is all I'll say: He's exempt. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitlekz83hawz)
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Yeah, I saw the whole thing with Melody coming. Doesn't mean it wasn't cool though. :D
EDIT : Absolutely loved Rory's question and the Doctor's message to the Cybermen.
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Yeah, I saw the whole thing with Melody coming. Doesn't mean it wasn't cool though. :D
EDIT : Absolutely loved Rory's question and the Doctor's message to the Cybermen.
Problem is I suspect it will be the last time the doctor will resort to violence with the whole Doctor = soldier business, at least not as anything other than a last resort, prepare for a lot more talk and tech/sonic his way out of problems in the autumn
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I'll be honest, I found some of that episode very underwhelming.
Bits of it were fantastic - the Rory / Cyberman exchange for instance. That carried the proper weight of "this is what a pissed off Timelord can do" with it. But after that it seemed to go quite badly down hill. An awful lot of people saying "oh he'll be terrible, terrible, oncoming storm etc." but when it came right down to it he never really seemed to get that horribly angry. It felt a bit of a let down.
I'm hoping that some of that anger will carry through to the Autumn episodes. He just got duped - twice - and has been seriously messed around by (whoever the current enemies) are. I'd expect him to be properly on a warpath now, rather than prancing about being particularly happy. Yes its been confirmed that he saves River, but I hope that doesn't take any suspense out of the coming episodes?
Lastly... and this has really been bugging me:
At the start of the new series we saw an astronaut shoot the Doctor. Assuming that was River (or River as a child) - why did she do it? Was she being controlled remotely as the weapon they were talking about in this latest episode? Why did the Doctor let her do it?
*Also*... who made the Tardis blow up in the series before? It never got explained!
So many explanations needed...
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Also, considering near the end of The Flesh episodes, the Doctor stated that 'Flesh' Doctor's matrix may survive, was it even the Doctor who got shot in the first place? Nothing that is said in this series seems to be without relevance...
I was enjoying the show until 'Danny Boy' appeared, and then I thought 'Ok, this is getting a bit silly now'. All in all very good, but...
I get the feeling this is all going to be cleared up in 'the forest' for one particular reason. How did River Song know her name if Amy has the Sewn namebadge, and the baby is with the eyepatch woman? Obviously the child must spend some time with the group in order to know what her name is, unless she adopted the name later.
As for the Tardis, I think that will be explained at the end of this series, I personally think the Doctor rigged the Tardis to explode (or the Tardis did it herself) to ensure that the events unfolded as they should.
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Not to interrupt your thread, since I'm not a Who-watcher myself, but I figured that this video (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2011-06-04/daily-video/fan-made-anime-inspired-dr-who-finished) might be of interest to some of you. :)
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Not to interrupt your thread, since I'm not a Who-watcher myself, but I figured that this video (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2011-06-04/daily-video/fan-made-anime-inspired-dr-who-finished) might be of interest to some of you. :)
LOL I'm almost scared to say I actually quite enjoyed that... :nervous:
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Not to interrupt your thread, since I'm not a Who-watcher myself, but I figured that this video (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2011-06-04/daily-video/fan-made-anime-inspired-dr-who-finished) might be of interest to some of you. :)
Well I thouroughly enjoyed it. Cybermen should be like that. Amy Pond should be like that. Santarans(?) should be like that :nod:
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That red-haired girl is pretty...ahem, attractive.
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INTERJECTION
Haven't been able to see the series yet, I can't find a place to, ahem, aquire it. But I wrote this on my page and I thought it may be relevant to the topic;
So I had an interesting thought while talking with Cleverbot earlier tonight. It mentioned Doctor Who, and we got into a discussion about time. I thought that, for the Doctor, he might see time in a similar way to how I see what is “up” in an aircraft or especially in a spacecraft - it’s all relative to your perspective. The Doctor jumps back and forth through time, yes, but on his own personal timeline, he can only travel in one direction; he is only getting older. When I fly a plane, “up” can be either the sky or where my head is relative to my feet; in a spacecraft, there is no up other than what I choose it to be.
So that might explain how Doctor Who sees time. For him there may not be an all encompassing “past” or “future”, (for instance, like how the American Revolution is in the *past* for us) - instead, it would be relative to him; it was in his personal past wherein he met Thomas Jefferson and stopped a rampaging Harak-hur from eating the Declaration of Independence, but if he went back to before that event and made sure that Thomas Jefferson as a child wasn’t killed by being run over by a wagon, that would still be in his present and the previous event would have been in his past; again, it’s all relative to him. This is also not to say that the entire universe is relative to him; this would be similar for other Time Lords as well - they would experience time relative to themselves.
Actually that might also explain the grandfather paradox, i.e. what happens if you go back and kill your own grandfather before he meets your grandmother, therefore your parents never meet and you are never born. Let's make that simpler and say you stopped your parents from ever meeting and thus stopped you from being born. History as it's now remembered by all your parents friends is devoid of any mention of you or their significant other.
Now, to an outside observer you might have just made time go all higgildy-piggildy, but to you, you're still on a linear path. You were born on some date, you discovered time travel, let's say, when you were 25, and you went back and stopped your parents from meeting when you were 30. It's all a continuous line for you. What essentially has happened, I believe, is that if you looked at time like...like neurons, actually, where one cell is connected to many many ones around it, and in turn connected to many ones around that...you have removed the connections between you and your parents and anyone that was connected to you through them. You personally are aware of what you've done and thus you still retain your memories; again, to you time is linear and you did have parents until suddenly at 30 you did not because you stopped them from meeting. You would still have your friends, maybe, unless the only reason you met them is because you had parents; so you probably would have your friends from when you were at least 18 and went to uni, but any friends that are linked to you through just your parents would be gone; that's not to say you couldn't meet them and become friends with them again, but the relationship would be different, at the very least, the original meeting circumstances would be.
I can imagine why meeting yourself on your own timeline might be an issue; if your sense of time is completely linear in order to maintain a logical order of events, if you started interfering with your own personal sense of time, I doubt the entire universe would explode, but it's possible that you might. I honestly don't know what would happen if you went back in time to tell your past self of something in the future; it's equally possible that nothing would happen, as again your time stream would still be linear - at 35 you went back in time and talked to yourself. I imagine the biggest complication would be what happens to you immediately once you break off contact with your past self; say you go back in time and tell yourself what the winning lottery numbers are. However, let's say that later while you are talking with yourself you get annoyed and punch your other self in the face, permanently knocking a tooth out. It's possible that that tooth would not be removed from your own head until after you broke off contact (i.e. went back to the future), because while you are still interacting with your past self, there are still more teeth you could knock out. I guess it's like thinking that you can't save the file you're editing if you have the same file open in a different window. Once you close one window you can make changes and when you reopen the other one those changes will be apparent, but you can't do it while both are open at the same time.
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Not to interrupt your thread, since I'm not a Who-watcher myself, but I figured that this video might be of interest to some of you.
Been following his work for a long time and it is FRICKIN AWESOME!!! Thats how the Cybermen should of been, bloody hard as nails ie lifting up a car and chucking it at a dalek!! also they have jet packs and the design is genuis!! The BBC should hire this guy as the beeb have just anounced they are animating some more of the lost stories starting with William hartnells Reign of Terror.
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OK, I've been trying to wrap my head around the convoluted timelines of The Doctor and Melody/River, and it's making me head hurt.
However, it does appear that we're going to have to visit some forests in the Doctor's near future to sort things out, as that's where River gets her name. Really, we've now got a pretty decent picture of the later years of River's life. Working backwards from her death, we've made it as far [earlier] to her first romantic involvement with the Doctor. Presumably Rory's encounter with her at the prison was after River actually appears at Demon's Run, hence her foreknowledge, but her appearance at Demon's Run follows her first kiss with him.
I think - someone correct me - that Melody/River's timeline looks like this [on screen]:
Melody Born - Melody Kidnapped - ???Melody Escapes/Turned Loose from Badddies on Earth??? - ???Melody Regenerates??? - Melody kills The Doctor [motivation unknown] - ???Melody ends up in the Gamma Forest and Melody Pond becomes River Song??? - ???unknown years pass, River ends up in prison somewhere/time??? - River Song present at the death of The Doctor - River Song, Amy/Rory and The Doctor fight The Silence and it's ne'erdoers on Earth - River Song present with the Pandorica and universe reboot - River Song present with the ship of crashed Angels *shudder* and the Clerics/etc [sidenote: related to the organization at Demon's Run - River Song arrives after Demon's Run battle to explain who she is - River is killed in the Library with Tennant's Doctor.
Notwithstanding the fact that she's Amy's daughter and has in part been raised by the Doctor, I'm betting a fairly full romantic relationship is being written in here.
I think River's involvement in the show is one of the most interesting parts of the plot since she was introduced.
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I would say that pretty much covers it. After all, consider what River looked like when we first ever met her in the Library, an unknown occupant of a Space Suit in Forest of the Dead ;)
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They appear to have forgotten about regeneration. Unless Melody only has one regen in her (used in the Alley)...
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i'm not sure it was her in the spacesuite when it killed the doctor as the adult river should of known what was happening?? but she looked as shocked as amy and rory. As for the regeneration could be that she is part timelord as Vastra said the babys DNA has timelord elements to it.
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I meant in the Library. Maybe they'll retcon it and bring her back. :nod:
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Why is everyone assuming that River Song has to go to the Gamma Forest? :confused:
The whole "The only water in the Forest is the River" thing was simply because the girl from the Gamma Forest didn't have a word for pond. The first time that River Song meets the Doctor she couldn't say her real name, it would be a massive spoiler as she meets Amy later on. So she'd obviously choose a pseudonym and River Song is about as obvious a pseudonym as you can get. The whole Gamma Forest thing could easily be a coincidence.
And if that's not enough for you, at some point someone is sure to mention River Song to Melody Pond. :p
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in other news
http://uk.tv.yahoo.com/news-extra/article/152281/doctor-who-plot-posted-16-years-ago.html
:p
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Wasn't this the same guy complaining about spoilers a few months back? :p
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Wasn't this the same guy complaining about spoilers a few months back? :p
Its not really spoilers when you use your own pet theory/story in a series that you were a fan of 16 years ago. :P We should see if we can find more of his posts from then...
That theory/plan, could also explain The Master's name as well.
Anyway, now that Space decided to show the last episode. I have to agree with Kalfireth, the lead up with everyone saying that The Doctor will do "terrible things" was sort of let down, especially how he has behaved in previous episodes. However as I think about it, this is a two part episode and when The Doctor figured out who River is he just flew away without saying anything or taking anyone with him, so he is obviously up to something (that probably involves his ganger as someone else mentioned).
I meant in the Library. Maybe they'll retcon it and bring her back. :nod:
But River lives in the computer. Possibly The Doctor destroyed her ability to regen because he didn't know that River could actually. For that matter, that first meeting happened before the universe was rebooted, maybe because River was conceived when she was in this universe the rules have changed?
Not to interrupt your thread, since I'm not a Who-watcher myself, but I figured that this video (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2011-06-04/daily-video/fan-made-anime-inspired-dr-who-finished) might be of interest to some of you. :)
The video at this link is dead, does someone have another link or the name of the "episode"/"series"?
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maybe because River was conceived when she was in this universe the rules have changed?
While a fascinating theory, this goes bad places over Amy wanting her child to be at least a bit of the Doctor's and I think we've nixed that.
Please god let us have nixed that.
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I'm not sure I posted my reaction to the last episode, but while it was great fun I'm not sure it lived up to the idea of being the Doctor's darkest hour.
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Not really. It was more or less a re-run of the Davros scene at the end of The Stolen Earth, so unless something happens later on this year, I wouldn't really call it his darkest hour either.
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(Spoilers ahead!)
Agreed.. his companions (Amy / Rory) got a bit pissed off with him but since he couldn't have predicted that Amys child was a ganger at the time - I don't see how they can be too pissed off with him, even if it was an oversight.
I'm more amazed that he actually was naive enough to think the entire plan had gone off without any flaws - that seemed very out of character.
But his darkest hour? No... that'd be something like irretrievably getting Amy or Rory killed... losing the Tardis... something of that nature. As it is he got over things pretty quickly then did a vanishing act on everyone. I *hope* the next part of the series will be a lot darker as the Doctor breaks a few of his own rules to bring back Melody. But he might just swan about a bit instead.
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I meant in the Library. Maybe they'll retcon it and bring her back. :nod:
But River lives in the computer. Possibly The Doctor destroyed her ability to regen because he didn't know that River could actually.
No. River took the Doctor's place in the climax of that episode specifically because it would be an insta-death and hence he would've been unable to regenerate. Therefore, her ability or inability to also regenerate is irrelevant. No regeneration would have taken place regardless, so she may still have it in her.
Also, I just want to state that that was an awesome ending for her character. If they contrive a way to download her into a new body, and thereby continue her story, it would completely undermine the fact that they were trying to convey the first/last meeting that sets the stage for their backwards relationship. It would cheapen it.
(Spoilers ahead!)
Agreed.. his companions (Amy / Rory) got a bit pissed off with him but since he couldn't have predicted that Amys child was a ganger at the time - I don't see how they can be too pissed off with him, even if it was an oversight.
I'm more amazed that he actually was naive enough to think the entire plan had gone off without any flaws - that seemed very out of character.
But his darkest hour? No... that'd be something like irretrievably getting Amy or Rory killed... losing the Tardis... something of that nature. As it is he got over things pretty quickly then did a vanishing act on everyone. I *hope* the next part of the series will be a lot darker as the Doctor breaks a few of his own rules to bring back Melody. But he might just swan about a bit instead.
It wasn't so much his darkest hour, but rather such a collossal fall. He went from a resounding victory against all odds, with no deaths or real danger, to a complete a total loss of both the baby and several of the Doctor's allies. Going from total win to almost total loss in mere minutes, I'd say that counts for the Doctor's greatest fall.
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Losing Rose.
That'd p155 me off.
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It wasn't so much his darkest hour, but rather such a collossal fall. He went from a resounding victory against all odds, with no deaths or real danger, to a complete a total loss of both the baby and several of the Doctor's allies. Going from total win to almost total loss in mere minutes, I'd say that counts for the Doctor's greatest fall.
Can't agree with that - he's lost far more allies than this in the past, and he knows the baby is gonna turn out fine so it hardly matters.
This episode had a great idea for an arc (Doctor, in his anger, screws up and loses control of a baby who will grow up into someone who will be his lover and then, maybe, kill him) but totally failed to execute.
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Well i totally missed this thread until now, but I can say the New Dr Who is good, Amelia Pond is pretty, the lost of her baby to the enemy is gonna leave a lot of episode possibilities ahead :) And until I found out that River Song was Amy Ponds daughter I was thinking maybe since she is half Time Lord, maybe the doctors child? or a companion for him?
Oh btw see under my name it says " there and back again"? Well I went " there" again and now I'm back for ever :) retirement sux though so I'm back to my old job with the city :) AND playing Freespace again.
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River Song is actually Hitler. We'll find it out next episode. I called it! :p
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How did you find that out? we don;t get the next episode here in Va until July :(
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It was on BBC3 on sunday :p
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Might I add that "Let's Kill Hitler" is a ****ing awesome name for a Doctor Who episode.
Well, it's an awesome name for anything, really.
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I think it's pretty much certain it was chosen quite deliberately because it 'cannot be done' ;)
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I figured it was just to be funny.
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Once again: He's exempt. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitlekz83hawz)
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IMO it would be a VERY BAD thing to kill Hitler in the first place, or anybody else in history for that matter, if anybody had the ability to travel time and they changed the past, it WOULD affect the future, Ok , Ok so I don't go back in time and kill my father and I still get born right? Well........maybe not, what if I prevent the death of a man who would grow up to kill my father? That might be a minor little problem when he kills my father before I am born.or if I see my mother BEFORE she meets my dad and cause her to NOT marry my father...........on the same token, what if I killed Hitlers best childhood friend by mistake? or if I goofed up and lost the plans to a nuclear bomb and the third Reich found it. or the worst case, and they killed ME, and took my machine and came into the future and got the tech we have now?
Changing history.........Bad Thing
Learning from History....Good Thing
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You don't know how Dr Who works, do you?
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Spoilers Ahead:
I just had a bit of a thought about The Silence...
Whilst re-watching episode 2 of the latest series, the creatures known as The Silence (having captured Amy Pond) explain to her that *she will bring The Silence, but her part will soon be over*.
I've a theory that The Silence has dual meaning - it's not just the race of creatures but also Amys child (which, as the creatures "The Silence" know, she is going to give birth to soon).
I could of course be completely wrong - but it does seem like the kind of route they could run with.
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"Song" or "Melody" sounds like the opposite/counterpoint to "silence" if you ask me ;)
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Maybe she re-invented herself? *shrugs*
Also, River has referred to a dark day coming - the Doctors death and her own not bothering her, there's something worse coming... what on earth is that about? I'm guessing it's not the end of the latest series because lets face it - not that bad no matter what they say. So what exactly is going to happen that ranks as a larger problem than the Doctors own and apparently permanent death?
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She explains that one later on in the same episode. She's referring to the day she meets the Doctor and he has no idea who she is or what she means to him.
Understandably meeting someone that important and having them basically ignore you is going to hurt like hell.
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Is that it? Seems a little melodramatic... she is a time traveller after all - is there a reason she's stuck going "backwards"?
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As far as I can tell, they mostly meet out of order. It's just that the last time she will meet him is the first time he'll meet her.
But there is no getting around the fact that she knows that sooner or later she knows she's going to have a day when she meets him and he doesn't have a clue who she is.