Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Blue Planet => Topic started by: crizza on May 02, 2011, 10:14:06 am
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Hey there,
I'm currently thinking about something like a spinnoff novel set in the BP-Universe.
The protagonist is something like the head of the vasudan Medjai and grandmaster of the Imperial Order of Vasuda, something akin to the white guard.
Thinking about vasudan ships and taking in account, that the empire would have their own Raynor and Titan things, I roughly wrote something about the Anubis-class, the vasudan counterpart of the Raynor class.
Anubis-class:
After the loss of the GVD Psamtik in the nebula beyond Gamma Draconis, it became clear, that the Empire would need a decent ship with enough firepower to not only stand it's ground against a shivan destroyer, but going straight for the throat, while relying on it's own strikecraft squadrons.
Unlike their fellow terrans, the vasudans designed and scratched numerous ships, some mounting devastating broadsides, while others had their firepower concentrated on the prow.
The result was the GVD Anubis.
Knowing that new technologies would be revealed in times of war, the Anubis was build to be improved during times of war.
The Anubis itself is roughly four kilometres long and mounting four heavy beam cannons at the prow, while her broadside sports numerous pulsecannons, AAA and vasudan slashing beams, to plunge straight into a shivan fleet, blasting it's way straight to a destroyer while engaging cruisers with broadside firepower.
The possible future improvement comes with a price however, as the Anubis-class has only space for ten squadrons.
Additionally, after the return of the 14th battlegroup and the Terran civilwar, the Anubis was brought back into the Aldebaran Imperial shipyards, to be outfitted with torpedo tubes.
Currently, their are three Anubis-class vessels:
The Anubis, acting as the personal flagship of the emperor and guardian of Aldebaran,
the Deathwing, her launch postponed to be refitted with torpedotubes and experimental long range mass drivers, to engage an enemy at long range, before moving in for the kill
and last but not least the GVD Seth, the only operational vessel of her class, scheduled to return to the vasudan shipyards, after the Deathwing has finished her upgrade cycle.
So...that is just one thing...as it is BP-fiction, I was drawing several potential Anubis class vessels, as of now my personal favorite is a rather blocky looking thing, with a head something like two sobek prows stacked together at their bottom, featuring a triple barreled massdriver on top, a neck section sporting the torpedo tubes and the main body...featuring most of the weapon systems and the remaining three massdrivers turrets, one again one top and two at the flanks, leaving the bottom of the ship rather defenseless.
Well...don't know why I've creating this topic, maybe any of you can come up with an encouraging or fair comments...
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Give it a go, buddy, it's your fanfic and you can do whatever you want in it. :) Only thing about the 'Anubis' is that I could've sworn the staple fighter of the PVN in FS1 shared that name...Anyway man, all yours, I reckon you should get cracking on that (it's sounding pretty cool) and show us what you've got when you're further along - give us something pretty decent to sink our teeth into and form an opinion over.
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I don't think blocky designs fit in well with the modern Vasudans. With FS2 they went towards more organic shapes and I think that defines and puts them visually apart from the Terrans much better than their FS1 designs (the Typhon was indeed quite blocky compared to the Hatshepsut).
That they didn't abanden that new design philosophy is visible from their support ship.
I'd also "keep the theme" in the ship names and thus give the current Deathwing the name of another egyptian god as well. Osiris would fit in well, but is already taken up by the bomber unfortunately, as is Amun(-Ra)...
Maybe Apophis might fit in well with Anubis and Seth, since they are all associated with the underworld in some way. And even those that don't know Apophis from egyptian mythology can associate the name with a violent badguy thanks the Star Gate I guess.
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You'd better find another set of names, because both "Anubis" and "Seth" are names of FS1 Vasudan fighters. :)
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Deathwing was something of a working title, Apophis will work as a name, 'caus Osiris and Horus will be Carriers, but that is a long way to go.
As of now, I went back drawing.
Inspirations are the Hathepsut, the Sobek and a little bit of the GVJ Khonsu, so I want flowing lines and as far as possible no 90° angle, apart from the turrets.
But my biggest problem is that I'm unable to draw the ship in 3d...as of now I've a sidelook and currently I'm drawing the topside as well, that's my usual drawing cycle.
Well, I simply don't care about Anubis and Seth being vasudans fighters, as I'm painfully aware of, but I'll take a look at the egyptian pantheon.
Edit: Drawing a ship in 2d is painfully-.-
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There are plenty of names available in Egyptian pantheon and in FS, there are no examples of names repeating. Thus, FS1 fighter names can't be used for post FS2 capships if we want to keep it within FS universe.
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If that is realy the case...then..well...Sokar-class, with the Sokar, Ophois and...Sachmet...they all stick with death, war and the stuff.
Is their currently anything known about the Vasuda-system after the bombardment of Vasuda-Prime?
I would like to use it as major shipyards, fundry etc, situated orbiting the planet while on it's surface automatet mining facilities are located.
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That would fit, yes.
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As of now I have doubts about four tripple barreled mass drivers on a ship four kilometres long...how big would be a single projectile?
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Why would Vasudans have mass drivers anyway
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Is their currently anything known about the Vasuda-system after the bombardment of Vasuda-Prime?
I would like to use it as major shipyards, fundry etc, situated orbiting the planet while on it's surface automatet mining facilities are located.
As far as I know Vasuda Prime was pretty much mined out long before the Shivans arrived and it wasn't overabundand with ressources to begin with. While I remember having read that I can't remember were i read it though...
So if there are any mining facilities, I'd place them on other planets in the Vasuda system, not down on prime. Since the GTA and PVN kept fighting in Vasuda, I guess it isn't that unlikely that stations and settlements on and around other planets in the system survived, but unless they build anything new there, prime should be empy both on the surface and in the orbit.
Why would Vasudans have mass drivers anyway
Because they saw them being nice sniper weapons on the Narayana and thought they'd try them out too maybe?
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I dunno, why didn't the Terrans do that too if it's so easy?
Just my 2 cents.
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Norbert get's it.
A mass driver, able to fire on an enemy capitalship long before it enters firing range could destroy something like a Sathanas main gun, without risking strikecraft.
Thinking that Zods have meaner weapons than Terrans, I guessed they would be able to recreate railguns..
An about mining Vasuda Prime...thought about about the bombardment beams somehow reacted with remaining elements and created something like a new element, almost beam-proof...but...well-.-
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Norbert get's it.
A mass driver, able to fire on an enemy capitalship long before it enters firing range could destroy something like a Sathanas main gun, without risking strikecraft.
Thinking that Zods have meaner weapons than Terrans, I guessed they would be able to recreate railguns..
An about mining Vasuda Prime...thought about about the bombardment beams somehow reacted with remaining elements and created something like a new element, almost beam-proof...but...well-.-
Except that current GTVA beam tech is based on Vasudan designs.
Except that 18 months is not enough time to design, build, and commission a warship that is based around railguns.
Except that, when the war started, the Narayana class didn't have long range artillery weapons.
Except that it was conclusively proven that beam weapons etc are more than sufficient for the task of killing Saths.
For the GTVA, mass drivers aren't a good match, because beams are cheaper to operate and maintain while offering a higher damage output than mass drivers.
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Realy?
Hm...then I should drop mass drivers and gauss cannons...
But we agree, that torpedo tubes would make sense?
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Yes, and as it's your project, you can do whatever you want. You can use mass drivers if you like.
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Wait what? Why would beams be cheaper?
They don't need anti-matter tipped ammunition, but they need a lot more heatsinks and put quite a drain on the reactor(s) of the ship, meaning the ship needs stronger energy/plasma supply.
And for me, putting a tri-barrel mass-driver on a ship for evaluation of this new technology doesn't sound at all like "a warship that is based around railguns." The main weapons are the four heavy beams at the prow and the slasher broadsides, with the railgun and torpedoes theoretically being used to soften the target up before reaching main combat range, though they are still being evaluated.
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Make it a superheavy pulse turret or an (slightly updated) Vasudan Flux Cannon (it could be interesitng to have a ship that uses the latter).
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Wait what? Why would beams be cheaper?
They don't need anti-matter tipped ammunition, but they need a lot more heatsinks and put quite a drain on the reactor(s) of the ship, meaning the ship needs stronger energy/plasma supply.
Beams ARE cheaper, because energy (or rather, reactor fuel) is cheap. In addition, while beam emitters are somewhat fragile, they're also easy to repair; the same cannot be said for your standard railgun.
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Besides, a Mass drivers needs also energy...
Also, I thought about some sort of cycling system which would simply swap a destroyed emitter with a new one...but as we don't know how big a beam emitter is...uff...writing FS stuff is much more complicated than 40k stuff...
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I like the rail-gun idea. I'm going to disagree with E, even though he is pretty much a canon source.
The reason the GTA doesn't use rail guns doesn't seem to be their complexity. Heck, we have the beginning of magnetic acceleration today. The Vasudans are a civilization capable of hurtling thousands of tons worth of destroyer through hundreds of light years of space with little effort. They can make metal slugs go very fast and hit things. Not as well as the UEF, sure, but still pretty well.
From what I understand, the GTA doesn't use rail guns because they want to continue to rely on the beams that are winning the war. I agree that beams are better than drivers, but not in every situation. The range does have tactical merits.
I think it could provide a good look into a comparison between the Terrans and Vasudans. The Tevs are arrogant, while the Vasudans are willing to assimilate the ideas of their foes. The Tevs insist on giving specific albeit devastating avenues of force to their commanders; the Vasudans value tactical flexibility. In every successful encounter with a Sathanas, the GTA has launched bombers to disable beams. The Vasudan design shows a change in strategic philosophy, delegating the precision strike abilities of heavy bombers to a destroyer that could hypothetically win the fight independently.
My two cents anyway.
Maybe put reverse engines on the thing? Enhances maneuvering and would cater to the new Vasudan philosophy of multi-role flexible destroyers.
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He is not a canon source - only released material is. Nothing the devs say on the forums should be taken as anything more than suggestive.
He is of course completely welcome to participate in discussion, which we would like to encourage rather than stifle.
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The primary advantage of beams is that you don't need to carry a large cache of (highly explosive, if they're to do anything) ammunition around.
While heat sinks may take up just as much space, they tend to not EXPLODE YOUR SHIP when hit the right way, see...
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The reason the GTA doesn't use rail guns doesn't seem to be their complexity. Heck, we have the beginning of magnetic acceleration today. The Vasudans are a civilization capable of hurtling thousands of tons worth of destroyer through hundreds of light years of space with little effort. They can make metal slugs go very fast and hit things. Not as well as the UEF, sure, but still pretty well.
I don't think it's a technological thing - I think that the GTVA has warships configured to use beams, and although the technology is readily available, the industry and tactics are not. It's easier for the GTVA to use the well proven beam cannons rather than develop a whole new paradigm based on (in the GTVAs view) obsolete technologies.
Also, Destoyers are likely tens of millions of tons.
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Here is one, logistics. as it stands the GTA was and the GTVA is shipping thousands of missiles, torpedoes and fusion mortar rounds at a time during times of conflict, if you add railguns you then have to add those projectiles to that list, then enough of those projectiles need to be stored on the warships probably enough for a major engagement and a few skirmishes, which either requires a reduction of available space or the requirement to make the ships bigger to provide the storage space. the UEF has the advantage that all their production, logistics and combat assets are all operating in a single system so warships only need to carry smaller numbers before RTB for more when they end up in a shootout, also add in the fact that many UEF warships have logistics capabilities themselves and you have an extended capacity when needed to take on extra ammo.
Also most capital ship combat engagements in the GW - NTF - FS2 eras have all been at comparatively close range, often within AAF range where the higher DPS of beams is superior (not taking into account jamming) so beams are better suited to GTVA combat doctrine
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Well, I think you've all got point.
Since the Zods are using fusion mortars on destroyers, they would have propably developed them even further...
So...a next generation fusion would have increased range, greater damage but I guess the rate of fire would have dropped...
But I can simply don't get used to dumbfire missiles on a destroyer...
Oh, and by the way, the Sokar is getting more sleeky, but the head section worries me...fuse the prow of two Sobeks to that of a Hatshepsut...I mean, when I close my eyes, I know how the prow should look...but I'm unable to draw it...
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Also, the thing that the GTVA does not use electromagnetic-propelled weaponry/mass drivers might not be accurate...I'm not sure entirely, but look at the Maxim. There's the unused GTW Railgun, too.
The GTVA just needs to modify their ships for LRBGreens. No need to overload the reactors or such...having Balls of Steele AI'd turrets to shoot down incoming torps will do good as well.
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Well, in BP, the "fusion mortar on destroyer" concept has already been developped further : look at the Eos and the Supernova. The Zods probably have equivalents on their next-gen capital ships.
Also, when taking logistics into account, remember flak magazines. An Aeolus is probably mainly made of ammo space.
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With a crew of just nine :nervous:
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That very nine people are deadly fighter and bomber killing machines, haha.
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Also, the thing that the GTVA does not use electromagnetic-propelled weaponry/mass drivers might not be accurate...I'm not sure entirely, but look at the Maxim. There's the unused GTW Railgun, too.
The Maxim is at least partially a chemical ballistic weapon.
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Thinking about improvements in long range engagements, the sheer size of a single Apocalypse torpedo, and reading about todays ICBMs etc I will stick with something like a MIRV, like a single torpedo carrying multiple warheads, which launch themselves just outside the range of flak/point defense guns...hm...
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Already exists. Look at the Hydra.
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Realy? I'M unable to find anything in the wiki, but that's fine, so I guess I'll borrow it:)
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Also, the thing that the GTVA does not use electromagnetic-propelled weaponry/mass drivers might not be accurate...I'm not sure entirely, but look at the Maxim. There's the unused GTW Railgun, too.
The Maxim is at least partially a chemical ballistic weapon.
Looking at the techroom i would say the maxim is a classic firearm full stop, unless the bullet is an advanced alloy casing for an explosive projectile in which case with the smooth bore barrel the alternative would be some form of coil gun, but i would lean towards advanced firearm myself
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I actually think about doing a modell with papier mâché over a wire mesh...
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I'd go with a heavy prow mounted weaponry. 4 heavy Beams in a cross formation with a BFG Mass Driver spinal mounted mass drive, and four additional heavy mount mass drivers amidships forward mounted in cross formwith a 45 degree tilt from the others, giving that ship 9 forward mounted heavy guns. It would get raped on its own, but as far as knocking out a sathanas in a flanking maneuver, it'd be a brilliant ship design.
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The design in my head(and there are a lot of them) has four heavy beams in a Deimos like prow, so they all can target a ship in front of them, while two can still attack targets above and below.
On the upper side of the prow should be a heavy triple barreled mass driver, like the turrets on an Iowa class battle ship, while another one is situated rearward upper deck while one each is integrated starboard and portside, giving the ship massive forward firepower, but as it goes, a vasudan destroyer/battleship wouldn't mount mass drivers.
Broadside firepower would be generated by slashing beams, while there should be also torpedo tubes.
Mounted all over the hull would be AAAs, pulse turrets and the like.
I really crave to show a ship model, but I'm far from doing so...
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Reading through the wiki...
How tall are vasudance and what is their life expectancy?
Cause I thought of giving Supreme Admiral Khu a try...
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"several feet taller than terrans" says the wiki. nd I think they have a higher life expectancy.
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http://youtu.be/41uNqxpAN68
Size comparison
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"several feet taller than terrans" says the wiki. nd I think they have a higher life expectancy.
Nothing is ever mentioned about their life expectancy I don't think, except possibly that its similar to the terrans.
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"several feet taller than terrans" says the wiki. nd I think they have a higher life expectancy.
Nothing is ever mentioned about their life expectancy I don't think, except possibly that its similar to the terrans.
even that has a 30+ year range for a human/terran so fudging 130-140 for an old Vasudan would still do it.
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Larger species tend to live longer. At least that's the case on Earth.
Since we have no canon info, it's a "whatever works for your story" situation anyway.
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@ GTW - 66: I remember something about the ammo for maxim being so small that a fighter can carry milions of rounds, though it's not in the canon tech room, CB prehaps. My point is that i think maxim is a mass driver only, using the high density uranium slugs at high velocity purely as armor piercing round, which would do well against hull and subsystems and have no effect on shields (since they are capable of holding kinetic blast of a missile which has to be greater).
@Vasudan life span: Not sure about canon, but other mods suggest what headdie said, some + 20 to + 40 years, for example Yssim in ITHOV. Also, Vasuda prime was rough environment even before being bombarded (desert with mostly undrinkable water). They are bound to have better immune system and ecological valence if nothing else. Give them conditions like on earth and they should by all laws of biology live longer.
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@ GTW - 66: I remember something about the ammo for maxim being so small that a fighter can carry milions of rounds, though it's not in the canon tech room, CB prehaps. My point is that i think maxim is a mass driver only, using the high density uranium slugs at high velocity purely as armor piercing round, which would do well against hull and subsystems and have no effect on shields (since they are capable of holding kinetic blast of a missile which has to be greater).
It's not purely a mass driver in the electromagnetic sense because the rounds are chemically propelled, like modern guns.
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It's not purely a mass driver in the electromagnetic sense because the rounds are chemically propelled, like modern contemporary guns.
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@Mars: Yeah, stating that was really important :P
@battuta: I don't remember any canon material stating that, unless you altered it in BP. For a "gunpowder" gun it sure consumes a lot of energy (Yeah, could be cooling and dampening) and the barrel DOES look like a coil gun.
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@battuta: I don't remember any canon material stating that, unless you altered it in BP. For a "gunpowder" gun it sure consumes a lot of energy (Yeah, could be cooling and dampening) and the barrel DOES look like a coil gun.
Nope, it's straight from the FS2 tech description FS2 CB that introduces the weapon. Look for the word 'caseless'. I'm sure it's possible there's an electromagnetic component but there also seems to be a chemical propellant as well.
ed: Though to be fair it seems like everything else is meant to go for the purely EM acceleration route, maybe they were just bad at saying 'the slugs do not have cartridges' but didn't mean to imply a chemical propellant.
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@battuta: I don't remember any canon material stating that, unless you altered it in BP. For a "gunpowder" gun it sure consumes a lot of energy (Yeah, could be cooling and dampening) and the barrel DOES look like a coil gun.
Nope, it's straight from the FS2 tech description FS2 CB that introduces the weapon. Look for the word 'caseless'. I'm sure it's possible there's an electromagnetic component but there also seems to be a chemical propellant as well.
ed: Though to be fair it seems like everything else is meant to go for the purely EM acceleration route, maybe they were just bad at saying 'the slugs do not have cartridges' but didn't mean to imply a chemical propellant.
To be honest there are two interpretations to the tech room that could be taken.
1. The weapon is a kenetic/solid mass round propelled by an explosive charge similar to a modern day fire arm, in this case the energy aspect could be a series of magnetic or other devices for centering the round in the chamber and down the barrel. The issue here is that by being presumably contact less otherwise ther would be no need to the centering mechanism a significant amount of the energy of the explosive charge is lost due to the expanding gases having an escape route that doesn't involve pushing the bullet.
2. The weapon is a metal cased explosive round propelled either by an explosive charge and/or coil/linear induction (rails are out due to the barrel being smooth bore). The explosive propellant would still have the same issue as above. An induction system should be well within the capability of the GTVA though there is no way to know if sufficient energy could be transfered to the round. the explosive component would have a small disrupting effect to the target's hull if the round is able to achieve partial penetration of the armour layer.
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I basically dropped the idea of Iowa-class main turrets and go for triple barreled long range gatling pulse guns, firing something like blobs.
IMHO the vasudan technology should be more advanced on that level.
A first try for a location, where the first chapter will take place:
After the loss of Vasuda Prime, it was thought of completely abandon the Vasuda system, however several vasudan corporations took over nearly abandoned facilities.
Over the years, these facilities and installations were being expanded and slowly but deliberately the Imperial Vasudan fleetyard was born.
As of now, it is the single most greatest shipyard in the GTVA and huge breakthroughs in weapon technologies were made, like the pulse guns as well as the the newest beam cannons.
Currently, the fleetyard can build, repair and upgrade dozens of cruisers, corvettes and up to four destroyer class vessels, the most prominent example being the three Sokar class battleships.
Furthermore, the IVF is the seat of the aging Supreme Admiral Khu, head of the vasudan medjai, who oversees and influences the course of the vasudan navy.
The whole complex is guarded by the second vasudan battlegroup and what was once a pain in the ass assignment for vasudans, is now one of the most badly wanted, because the second battlegroup is one if not the state of the art fleet, falling only behind the first battlegroup.
Planned Characters:
Vice Admiral Tyrus Cassius McQueen
Hailing from a family of soldiers and sailors, the then young Tyrus caught the attention of Supreme Admiral Khu on a memorial service just after the Capella Incident. While most of the present people mourn the fallen, he celebrated them and earned the scorn of his superior, Admiral Petrarch.
Although being about to become Captain, he earned a disciplinary hearing, where it was Supreme Admiral Khu who offered him a place in the vasudan navy and the former squadron leader of the 70th Blue Lions gratefully accepted.
From this day on, Tyrus became the protegee of Khu and is now second in command of the Supreme Admiral as well as the only terran serving in the vasudan navy as a relict of the pfficers exchange programm.
Supreme Admiral Khu
Revered as a brilliant tactician, the late Khu faces a viciuos struggle against other members of the vasudan medjai and is slowly loosing ground. Currently he is about to propose a plan, which not only involves the latest battleship of the medjai, as well as his loyal warhound McQueen to bring the terrans back into the fold and consodilate his position again.