Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: CougEr on May 13, 2002, 09:20:00 am

Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: CougEr on May 13, 2002, 09:20:00 am
Looks familiar?
(http://members.optushome.com.au/gallandt/Orion.jpg)
 (http://members.optushome.com.au/gallandt/Orion1.jpg)
(http://members.optushome.com.au/gallandt/Orion2.jpg)
(http://members.optushome.com.au/gallandt/Orion3.jpg)
(http://members.optushome.com.au/gallandt/Orion4.jpg)
(http://members.optushome.com.au/gallandt/Orion5.jpg)
(http://members.optushome.com.au/gallandt/Orion6.jpg)
(http://members.optushome.com.au/gallandt/Orion7.jpg)
(http://members.optushome.com.au/gallandt/Orion8.jpg)
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Ulundel on May 13, 2002, 09:30:41 am
Interesting...very interesting...now it looks more like e cruiser or corvette
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Styxx on May 13, 2002, 09:37:59 am
Hm, nice - but if you want to make a hi-poly model, try to follow more closely the original one...
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Corsair on May 13, 2002, 11:32:06 am
...the hell is that? An oversimplified Orion flipped upsidedown and then changed a bit?

It looks interesting...:doubt::yes:
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Redfang on May 13, 2002, 11:35:07 am
:wtf::yes:
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Grey Wolf on May 13, 2002, 12:33:00 pm
Ummmm...... No. An Orion with smoothing and bump mapping looks a lot better.
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Ulundel on May 13, 2002, 12:49:27 pm
Bump mapping rules. :D
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Redfang on May 13, 2002, 12:52:26 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Ten of Twelve
Bump mapping rules. :D

 
:nod:
 
But displacement mapping is better. :p
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Zeronet on May 13, 2002, 12:58:13 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Redfang

 
:nod:
 
But displacement mapping is better. :p


Show me.
Title: Re: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Stunaep on May 13, 2002, 01:19:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by CougEr
Looks familiar?
 


no.
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Bobboau on May 13, 2002, 01:26:48 pm
I can't see anything
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Redfang on May 13, 2002, 01:26:59 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Zeronet


Show me.

 
I could've yesterday, but I can't anymore... there might be more sites about it, but at least the article, which is the only one I know about that, isn't there anymore.
 
Maybe it (http://www.digit-life.com/articles/matroxparhelia512/index.html) will be up again tomorrow. Actually I'm pretty sure it is, and there will be more articles about it (yeah, Matrox's Parhelia getting released, and it has displacement mapping).
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: CougEr on May 13, 2002, 04:19:24 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Styxx
Hm, nice - but if you want to make a hi-poly model, try to follow more closely the original one...


Ummm... for as much as I wanted to follow the original design, I really didn't fancy that idea much. I would be coping,  too easy.  
The original design is a box with some textures. nothing too hard.
This one has a lot more real dettails and I have not finished with it yet, by all meens. 10,000 poli  so far. the textures are made in 15 mins. and those are nothing more but test renders.

It's also rather difficult to model  just from my memory and even when checked I found  several disigns of an ORION class destroyer, all different and poor in quality from the game itself.

Since that above is the actual shape of ONE of the three Orion Class destroyer in FS2  (There are 3 different types. I bet no one knew that)
 I deceided that I will add a shuttle, since a launch bay was originally constructed. in the front.
  You can see the railing where it would obviusly launch from and the main escape hatch.
The front  is again as per original Orion design but I added the 3 windows giving it the EVENT HORIZON look of the front cabin.

I figured; if Volition can have 3 different version of that capital ship in the game, surely I can make a slight modified version myself.
No weappons yet.
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Shrike on May 13, 2002, 04:21:32 pm
Uhh, the three different types are simply nameplate changes.

And if you're going to make a high poly, that's good, but at least start with a base orion model and work from there.....
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Stryke 9 on May 13, 2002, 04:22:25 pm
Detail doesn't make up for excessive fundamental simplicity. Take a look at my Kirov, if ya want- the thing probably has a fraction of the polys that does, but it looks infinitely more detailed. simply because it started out a complex design, instead of having a simple body and lots of detail... (and I screwed up on that, too, around the midsection- it shows)
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: LtNarol on May 13, 2002, 05:12:54 pm
wow, for 10000 polys, im really surprised: very little overall shape (as Stryke said, too oversimplified), decidedly less than the original orion.  Like Shrike said, the 3 different versions, capital01a, capital01b, and capital01c are identical in every way except the name plates.  A is the Galatea, B is the Bastion, and C is the one used as a common orion.  I still like the original much better.
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Ace on May 13, 2002, 06:54:10 pm
Ummm... for as much as I wanted to follow the original design, I really didn't fancy that idea much. I would be coping, too easy.

No offense, but bull****, if you're going to have the audacity to call it a high-poly Orion, it needs to be one.

Now if you said it's your own ship "based on" the Orion, that's alright.
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Bobboau on May 13, 2002, 08:27:15 pm
I would join in on the critisism if I could see it
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Thorn on May 13, 2002, 08:32:04 pm
Personally I think its fugly...
But that could be the lighting, want to put one up that isnt glaring white?
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: LtNarol on May 13, 2002, 11:23:44 pm
besides, the original is anything but a box with textures, if you ever look at the thing, its very well done as far as sections and transitions go.  that 10000 poly model is close to a box with textures than the original Orion.
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: WMCoolmon on May 13, 2002, 11:45:41 pm
Comments:
1) It's upside-down
2) It needs poly optimization, if it has that many polys. I'm sure I could make a huge square with a couple million polys but I'd be wasting my time and effort
3) The Orion designs from Freespace 2 looked better than this.
4) It's too rounded. If you look at all the Terran designs from the game, you'll find they're pretty blocky. Check out the Apollo from the Freespace 1 intro. THAT is certainly not a low detail or bad quality model
4) This is Freespace, not Event Horizon.
5) Finally, the original is not a "box with some textures". This (http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/hosted/array/array.php?image=73&page=0) is a box with some textures, but the in-game Orion model is a very good exmple of low-poly modelling
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Bobboau on May 14, 2002, 12:43:14 am
the Orion is one of the most stunning works of polymodeling I've seen, it takes a simple disign and gives it an atitude, the thing just looks big, just by the shape and form and the complexity of the textures, it has sutle lines intersecting at great angles with paralel and perpendicular lines everywere,
it looks hard and industrial, the way the fighter bay and launch pad sweep together and intigrate into the hull in the industrial style, and the slight details are added in such as the sensor arrays along the bottom, in this model every poly adds a very personified element,
not a poly waisted

I am still amased every time i see it by the simple beauty and graice, the sheer polygonal effecency, and the potent terran pride it represents




now could someone at least discribe this new model, becase it refuses to load on my end
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: CougEr on May 14, 2002, 01:39:24 am
First of all I'm sorry about the images not loading.

 My Isp assures me the problem with their free hosting serveri t's temporary.

No point in transferring all 8 images to another server.

Let me explain.. I know it is not quite the way I want it to be yet. but to breack the bordom of modelling I deceided to run a few renders in lay out with one light
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Bobboau on May 14, 2002, 01:44:04 am
well i seem to be the only one aflicted by this, wich is odd, there is usualy more than just one person to have these problems, boy I must just be the luckiest human on Earth
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: CougEr on May 14, 2002, 02:06:33 am
Gee I never expected such a critique.

I should have never posted before conpletion.
 
Anyway.  That is an ORION CLASS CApital Ship.

That I am sure.  No texture made  those are some of my presets. not even sized.
 I have not done the sides yet. either that a poor attempt to that banjo looking hub on the side.

Not the prettiest of ships.

I agree with everyone  it lkooks like crap.

Hooo well less than 4 hous in all
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Ryx on May 14, 2002, 02:29:24 am
Well, It's a WIP so it's still early. At the moment it's too round, that's my main problem. That it doesn't resemble an FS2 Orion (in-game) is no partiular problem. Variation never hurt anybody.
Just don't go overboard, when doing these WIP pics.  I mean something like this, btw (http://w1.520.telia.com/~u52019065/Feat/4.jpg). ;)

Anyway, keep 'em coming! :nod:
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: aldo_14 on May 14, 2002, 05:14:04 am
Quote
Originally posted by CougEr
Gee I never expected such a critique.

I should have never posted before conpletion.
 
Anyway.  That is an ORION CLASS CApital Ship.

That I am sure.  No texture made  those are some of my presets. not even sized.
 I have not done the sides yet. either that a poor attempt to that banjo looking hub on the side.

Not the prettiest of ships.

I agree with everyone  it lkooks like crap.

Hooo well less than 4 hous in all


Never a good idea to post wIPs :) :nod:

It's not too bad looking....but it is woefully underdetailed in certain bits, and I'd have to say it needs a lot of work - especially on yer sides.

But then again it is Wip... you oprobably should have mentioned that at the start, though ;)
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Stunaep on May 14, 2002, 06:48:41 am
Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
This (http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/hosted/array/array.php?image=73&page=0) is a box with some textures, but the in-game Orion model is a very good exmple of low-poly modelling


Dammit, I've seen it SO many times, but it's still funny...
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Styxx on May 14, 2002, 07:03:52 am
Well, it is a good idea to post WIPs, if you want some sincere critique - and that's exactly what you got here. We're just trying to help. :)

I think that a hi-poly version of the Orion should at least follow the same basic shape, exchanging the details that are represented by textures on the in-game model by actual modelled detail... but that's just my opinion.
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Ryx on May 14, 2002, 07:14:17 am
I actually feel tempted to try modeling a hi-poly Orion. Too bad that all my attempts at hi-poly stuff ends badly. Oh well, It'll come to me.
I hope...
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: LtNarol on May 14, 2002, 08:17:04 am
either make it a higher poly version of the original by making it more detailed (like styxx said) or name it the Orion Mk II
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: beatspete on May 14, 2002, 10:13:05 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
the Orion is one of the most stunning works of polymodeling I've seen, it takes a simple disign and gives it an atitude, the thing just looks big
 


I totally agree, i love the origional Orion, it just has "TERRAN DESTROYER" writen all over it.  It looks so terran, its the best example of something looking 'terran'.
Shame they are crap in battle. :doh:

As for this new model, im not too sure :doubt: .  It looks like its the right way up, not just an upside down orion, but it looks more like a cruiser at the moment.  Remove the attempt at a sensor array, and put a normal satalite dish on the top towards the back, add a few sticky-outy turrets and it might look alright.  To make it look bigger, make the lights/windows at the front smaller, and maybee add some of the black and yellow window texture used on a lot of the origional freespace ships.

pete
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Zeronet on May 14, 2002, 10:28:28 am
Quote
Originally posted by LtNarol
either make it a higher poly version of the original by making it more detailed (like styxx said) or name it the Orion Mk II


Yep.
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Ulundel on May 14, 2002, 10:44:51 am
Quote
Originally posted by LtNarol
either make it a higher poly version of the original by making it more detailed (like styxx said) or name it the Orion Mk II


I don't like the mk II ideas. Very, very overused.
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Mr Carrot on May 14, 2002, 04:04:50 pm
Question, where are the three different types of orion in FS2, surely your not counting different weapon arrangments as completely different crafts?
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: LtNarol on May 14, 2002, 05:14:10 pm
no, its actually 3 models: capital01-a, capital01-b, and capital01-c

each has a different nameplate, a is the Galatea, b is the Bastion, and c is just plain

as for orions sucking in battle, what have you been drinking?  Orions make for some of the best flank weapons, blockade barriers, and overall weapons ever.  Ever seen on dish out a broadside to a Ravana?
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Corsair on May 14, 2002, 05:23:38 pm
Quote
Originally posted by LtNarol
no, its actually 3 models: capital01-a, capital01-b, and capital01-c

each has a different nameplate, a is the Galatea, b is the Bastion, and c is just plain
wrong. c is the Haydon. ;)

the plain normal one without a namplate is just Capital01-05. the Galatea is Capital01-05a and the Bastion is Capital01-05b. :p

and d (at least on my computer) is the GTD Messana.
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: CougEr on May 15, 2002, 02:06:39 am
One version actually has a slide ramp on one side..
 That's the difficulty in trying to model one version sourcing from 3 different models.
 However this version has been firstly screencaptured in a specific mission. allowing any angle and position of my crtaft.
So in all You have this model i made up there.

the comm array at the fron is existant on this version allthough I probably went a liittle overboard.

There are so many other things I still have to boolian out of the main hull and add some small dettails like railings (extra polis) and split levels decks.
Then, if I could have a clean JPG of the maps I could attempt to modell the varios tubes and bulkheads.
Like this I can't make sense of them.
As an aid to this commited work (which I will share with everyone here up on completion. LW modellers or not) would anyone have the original maps of the 3 different orions.
Like this I will make a templet on Adobe Illustrator, tracing the relevant parts and import the illustrator vecta file in Lightwave modeller and attempt to extrude it.
 That should make the angles and the dimension of the dettails in the map feasable in LW modelling.
 I might even be able to copy some seamless images for texture to use in mapping after the dettails.
Let me know.
 I'm in Far North Queensland in Tropical North Australia I have my tower but a real ****ty 800X600 monitor.
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Mr Carrot on May 15, 2002, 12:47:13 pm
Ok so we have 3 different engine/fred names which mean minro cosmetic changes in the form of namplates.......... i dont see how this could be seen as 3 different ships and thus confusing the overall model?

And they all have the ramp on the side, thats the hanger, the bit below it is the "runway"
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: IceFire on May 15, 2002, 01:17:54 pm
Quote
One version actually has a slide ramp on one side..
That's the difficulty in trying to model one version sourcing from 3 different models.
However this version has been firstly screencaptured in a specific mission. allowing any angle and position of my crtaft.
So in all You have this model i made up there.

All three of those models are exactly the same with one exception.  Each model references a different nameplate texture.  One is a blank blue texture.  One says GTD Galatea.  One says GTD Bastion.  There are no other differences, no ramps, slides, or water parks.

Now...if your trying to create a high poly version of the GTD Orion class destroyer from FreeSpace and FreeSpace 2 then what you've got there is not a good replication.  Not for any reason except that it looks nothing like the ship your trying to recreate.

On the other hand...if you are making a high poly model spaceship that is influenced by the Orion destroyer then its just fine, carry on :)  Do tell us which it is, then there will be less confusion and more constructive criticism.
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: CougEr on May 16, 2002, 02:16:54 am
Okay, maybe I'm not expressing myself too well here.
 My intention is to build an ORION CLASS Capital ship just like any one of the 3 nameplates in Free space.
 
Understandingly, an illusion of 3d in a model (clearly a long box in it's actuality) is obviously individual in it's interpretation.
There is no sliding ramp in the wiremash or opening for hangers.
But I vaguely noticed something in a drawing trying hard to resemble one.
The textures are poor in quality due to the low bites count and it only looks a particular way at one angle.

If anyone would kindly hand draw me those dettails I CAN NOT SEE, I'd be happy to include them.

The lack of good material (In FS2) and the limitation of the models low poli wiremash in a realtime 3D animation game even using direct X 8.1 (at the time DX4) are limiting factors in replicating this.
the cleaver mapping makes you see what ever your immagination wants to see and of course at a distance. Foir as soon as you come close to the model you can actually see the pixellation on the image.

I'm trying to build a real model here not a make believe one with a few cleaver drawings.

Take a look at OSIRIS, there have been several version of renders I've made.
 That model is highly dettailed in all it's conponents and in several places.
 The more I use it, the more I have to dettail it.
Every thing there is real. No cleaver mapping of estrusion that in actual fact aren't there and will dissapear at a different angle.

CougEr
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: IceFire on May 16, 2002, 10:17:09 am
Umm...you might want to get the Descent Manager package and use ModelView32 to have a look at those models.

http://www.descent-network.com/descman/ - Go get it.  You can pan and zoom and rotate to your hearts content.

Quote
My intention is to build an ORION CLASS Capital ship just like any one of the 3 nameplates in Free space.

So your building a high detail version of the ship from the game?  In that case you've got some serious stuff that needs to be worked on.  This has nothing to do with "individual interpretation" or any lack of material.

Lets compare:
(http://members.optushome.com.au/gallandt/Orion3.jpg)
Your render.

(http://www.volition-inc.com/fs/images/spacecraft/gtd-orionlg.jpg)
A render from Volition of the model in the game.

You've got the ship upside down for starters.  I see the main basic shapes are there, but if this is to be a high detail replication, then the proportions also need to be the same which they are not.

Quote
I'm trying to build a real model here not a make believe one with a few cleaver drawings.

Yours is just as makebelieve as Volition's.  Your aspiring to make a highly detailed version of the Orion destroyer or at least thats what you said.  I think its commendable to take on such a project, but if your going to do it, get some of the essentials down.

And im only arguing this to your benefit, no insult or harm intended.
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Bishop Gantry on May 16, 2002, 11:37:01 am
preffer the Original Terran Bulk Design Orion...
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: wEvil on May 17, 2002, 09:32:46 am
i was going to have a go doing the hi-poly one but I dont know enough about whats meant to go where - the Hecate makes much more sense to me.
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Ryx on May 17, 2002, 09:42:57 am
Quote
Originally posted by wEvil
i was going to have a go doing the hi-poly one but I dont know enough about whats meant to go where - the Hecate makes much more sense to me.


How is the Hecate coming along, btw? Pics?
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: CougEr on May 17, 2002, 05:17:43 pm
No insult taken Ice,
 I really have not spent enough time on it but the images I have (references)  do not show whqt you have published here.

If I can not model from a 3D display of  a real model (this would meen having Lightwave opened and freespace  simultaneously, BAD IDEA) then an absolute profile of both sides, top, bottom, front and rear are going to be needed.

If It has to be done, might as well be exactly the same as the original Volition intended model.
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: IceFire on May 17, 2002, 06:42:14 pm
Thats why I said - go get ModelView.

www.descent-network.com

View, pan, take pictures...whatever.
Title: GTVA Charlotte ORION CLASS Lightwave model
Post by: Kazashi on May 18, 2002, 09:29:11 am
To help create my high-poly Freespace models I converted the pof (after using ModelView to pick the right one:)) to cob then lwo with 3D Exploration, then pulled apart and recreated that model piece by piece. The layers function is a great asset in this case. So far I've only done some cargo containers and part of a Fenris in my spare time, but it does give a helpful guide when you do want to make accurate high-detail conversions - much better than having to keep Freespace or a 2D graphics program open simultaneously.

That's all I'll say, I know you don't need any more help with your constructions :)