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Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Blue Planet => Topic started by: General Battuta on May 10, 2011, 02:59:32 pm

Title: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on May 10, 2011, 02:59:32 pm
People wanted a more substantial preview of R2, here it is. Copied from ModDB (the update over there hasn't been authed yet, but it's in the pipe).

this is an update guys, get ready to read it


are you comfortable okay good let's go

(http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/16/15109/bpheader.1.jpg)

Blue Planet isn't FreeSpace 3. It's a fan production, and that has its own advantages. We can do things that Volition likely never would have - experiment with the gameplay and push the narrative envelope in surprising ways.

(http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/16/15109/screen0069.png)

Custos patrol combatants support the UED Eris in a fleet action during the events of Delenda Est.

War in Heaven's first release drew praise for its storytelling and immersion. But we worried that the player had only a limited role in the battle. While it's interesting to have to work as part of a team, fighting alongside competent wingmen and powerful warships, player agency is a key part of a fun game.

Our goal for Release 2 is to put the player in charge without losing our narrative or our tactical rules. Warships will remain tough, smart opponents. Hostile fighters will use loadouts and tactics rather than numerical advantage. But the player will have new tools.

One of those tools is our new HUD. Widescreen-compatible, high-resolution, and loaded with new gauges, the HUD allows us to deliver key story and gameplay information right to the player.

(http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/16/15109/screen0060.png)

The new HUD in action. See if you can spot all the new gauges!

The above screenshot gives you an idea of the tricks we can pull. Right there you can see a stealth meter, a tactical monitor below the stealth meter that helps the player track a key signal, a visibility meter just above the radar to help players maintain their stealth, and a tactical uplink in the upper right that links the player to key mission assets. We've got a few more gauges not displayed here.

Better yet, these gauges can be customized per-mission. In another mission, the tactical gauge can be used to display an urgent priority objective. The tactical uplink could be used to control artillery spotting, or select items from a menu. The visibility meter could instead track the progress of a character's cerebral edema.

If you're worried about information overload, well, so are we. We're working with our beta testers to make sure all this information doesn't overwhelm the player. Right now our idea is to include a series of optional tutorials.

(http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/16/15109/screen0073.png)

Elements of Serkr Team engaging the UED Eris during the events of Delenda Est.

That brings us to the hub world. The name of this world is, itself, something of a spoiler, so I'll leave it be. Suffice to say that between each mission in Act 3 the player will return to a hub where they can speak to characters, hunt for easter eggs, discuss their last mission, plan for the next, and get to know their wingmen and commanders. This hub is a single mission, but it changes in response to the campaign's progress.

The hub is also, of course, totally skippable. Players who prefer action can simply exit it every time. We hope players will be able to choose the kind of experience they want to have with War in Heaven R2's narrative.

At one point in design we were hoping to use the hub as the menu interface for a persistent squadron management feature. We're probably going to cut that, but the persistent squadron will likely remain.

(http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/16/15109/screen0061.png)

A mission deep in Jupiter's atmosphere. We can't take full credit for that skybox.

Another one of our big focuses is mission variety. Although Release 1 missions were quite diverse, a lot of the action focused on working closely with capital ships, flying intercept. Release 2 missions are a bit more adventurous - enough to please Spoon, creator of the brilliant Wings of Dawn.

Speaking of Spoon, Wings of Dawn and Blue Planet have been collaborating to build a system of mounted equipment for use on certain ships. You can choose to sacrifice weapons to carry extra ammo, enhanced reactive armor, a modular self-repair coagulant system, and more. We hope these equipment items will open up new options for players and provide interesting choices.

Speaking of interesting choices, you'll also be tangling with and flying alongside some new hardware.

(http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/16/15109/screen0065.png)

The Federation's Custos patrol combatant can't stand on its own in line combat, but it's a useful torpedo attacker and it shines as a screening element and convoy raider. Of course, the GTVA has its own answer. Credit goes to our partner Cadius, an X3 modder.

If you liked flying the Karuna frigate in The Blade Itself, you'll probably like the Custos too. It comes in two breeds: a mass produced torpedo attacker, and a more advanced special operations combatant. A nimble sub-cruiser gunboat, the advanced variant of the Custos mounts a spinal mass driver, select-fire torpedoes and heatseeking antifighter missiles, and adequate point defenses. Its real advantages lie in its electronic warfare and tactical systems.

One of the Custos' abilities plays into something beautiful we've implemented in R2: capship mounted countermeasures. Fighters have been able to deploy decoys ever since FreeSpace 2, but now warships will fire volleys of flares to decoy incoming torpedoes and bombs, in a manner inspired by (but not quite as cool as) this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfO3tBjZHZk)

We'll keep you informed as we move forward. In the meantime, check out our amazing sister projects - Earth Defense, Inferno Release 1 Upgrade, Vassago's Dirge, Wings of Dawn, Luyten Civil War, and more.

(http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/16/15109/screen0055.png)

The FreeSpace Upgrade Project continues to make everything more awesome, forever.

There are a lot of other things I could get excited about, including numerous new mission editor features and bugfixes to the engine itself triggered by BP development. But I think it's time to sign off. I'll close with some hard numbers: we have eight missions done, tested, and polished to nearly release state. Progress continues.

Oh! I was just reminded of an amazing community project. As we developed War in Heaven we daydreamed of a multiplayer mode. The community came up with this idea itself, and a number of intrepid Hard Light Productions members have put together a Blue Planet multiplayer package! Games happen quite regularly, and the package is constantly updated with new missions and balance tweaks.

Perhaps the most impressive thing I've seen from this project is a true hybridization of space sim and RTS gameplay. Imagine that Left 4 Dead's AI director could be played by a person, and you have an idea of what the multiplayer crowd has achieved.

(http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/16/15109/screen0094rts.png)

What you see here is a game's host playing dungeon master, ordering warships about and controlling the flow of the battle. The rest of the players are down in the thick of the fight.

They've also done co-op conversions of a lot of the biggest BP missions.

k crosspost over, peace out HLPlites

ED: special note for HLP, most of these screenshots include a degree of grain from postprocessing; we're not exactly sure how we'll handle this during release but there may be a set of optional packages.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Snail on May 10, 2011, 03:17:53 pm
Cooool. That multi stuff looks beast. Those BP multi guys are heroes.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Garfield on May 10, 2011, 03:37:16 pm
Awesome! Out of curiosity, will we get a chance to fly any capships other than the Custos?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Destiny on May 10, 2011, 04:02:02 pm
Hmm, pretty nice preview...the Custos is a pretty good damned looking ship. That little bit of cyan there doesn't fit, though. Since the ship seems pretty well suited for low observability.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: bigchunk1 on May 10, 2011, 04:06:33 pm
Wow, Spoon was right. Really looking forward to the artillery spotting mechanic. I'm also curious how the gunboat sized ship plays. Tutorials are cool too, I have never before heard a moder even mention the idea. 
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on May 10, 2011, 04:22:17 pm
Hmm, pretty nice preview...the Custos is a pretty good damned looking ship. That little bit of cyan there doesn't fit, though. Since the ship seems pretty well suited for low observability.
Blame people with "absence of light" settings.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Spoon on May 10, 2011, 04:35:32 pm
 :nod:
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Shivan Hunter on May 10, 2011, 04:53:59 pm
YOU FLY UNBOUND BENEATH ETERNITY
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Commander Zane on May 10, 2011, 06:51:38 pm
MY BODY IS READY.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Icewater on May 10, 2011, 08:31:31 pm
 :eek2: MY BODY IS NOT READY AND IT NEVER WILL BE

Is that bit about multiplayer in reference to WiH r1 or is it a new feature in r2? "Games happen quite regularly" is kind of confusing me.

Oh, and, is the weapon text going outside the box going to be remedied?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on May 10, 2011, 08:32:43 pm
:eek2: MY BODY IS NOT READY AND IT NEVER WILL BE

Is that bit about multiplayer in reference to WiH r1 or is it a new feature in r2? "Games happen quite regularly" is kind of confusing me.

There's a quite active R1 multiplayer community right now - check the stickied threads in this forum.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: PsychoLandlord on May 10, 2011, 08:42:21 pm
I never quite realized how ambitious R2 was going to be. Everything about the SCP continues to floor me. The fact that a respected X modder is now involved in this, even indirectly, is even more surprising. You guys are making yourselves known in amazing ways.

I cant wait.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Rodo on May 10, 2011, 08:57:56 pm
A-WESOME.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Ypoknons on May 10, 2011, 09:48:19 pm
I see Ainsarii missions (and why does iPhone autocorrect have ainsarii but not 'privity?'
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: CommanderDJ on May 11, 2011, 04:55:56 am
That hub world idea seriously sounds riveting. I for one will be scouting out every nook and cranny when R2 is finally released.

Also, I see a Vishnan HUD shield icon on one of the screens. VISHNANS! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Scotty on May 11, 2011, 05:06:57 am
Meh, it's the same for the spacesuit. :nervous:

I bet it's just a standin until they get an image for whatever ship they're flying.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: The E on May 11, 2011, 05:11:38 am
Yeah, that's the default shield icon for any ship that doesn't have a shield icon of its own.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: CommanderDJ on May 11, 2011, 05:25:08 am
 :(
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Ravenholme on May 11, 2011, 08:04:15 am
Cool to see that me suggesting that you work with Cad worked out :D

And, aaaaagh! Anticipation-get!
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on May 11, 2011, 09:55:37 am
Just make sure non of the new HUD elements are on the same space as the pause label.
To have the ability to take a break and check each gauge in peace does sound like a good idea to me.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Snail on May 11, 2011, 10:41:30 am
Just make sure non of the new HUD elements are on the same space as the pause label.
To have the ability to take a break and check each gauge in peace does sound like a good idea to me.
Press Alt-pause instead?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Qent on May 11, 2011, 11:35:22 am
At the risk of sounding like even more of a fanboy, I had honestly been preparing for disappointment because you wouldn't beat R1. Good job.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Kolgena on May 11, 2011, 07:23:00 pm
Is this still FSO? Wow.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: crazy_dave on May 12, 2011, 04:36:17 am
Wow ... I was writing up a list of gameplay features that I would like to see in my ideal BP WiH and having a hub world with persistent squadron management was something I considered but thought too far fetched for the FSO engine. Then I read this post. :eek: How are you guys implementing this in the FSO? I had no idea it could do something like that! Although I guess I shouldn't be surprised since I'm just starting to get into Freespace there is probably much I don't know about far this open source engine + FRED can go. I know you are talking about the persistent squadron management feature might be cut, but even having the interaction with people as you described would be an amazing leap forward in immersion. I am impressed by the other feature changes you mention as well. That people on their own have taken WiH and made tactical mods of it I think speaks volumes to the quality of work you guys did. Kudos all around!
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: The E on May 12, 2011, 04:47:42 am
Doing a hub world is actually rather easy. By using variables to track where in the campaign the player is, and by using a hand-hacked campaign file (FRED's campaign editor can't handle loopbacks). If you look at it in the campaign editor, it'll look like this:
(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/pics/campaignmadness.png)

As for the squad management, that's again an application of variables. It's not that hard, if you have a bit of programming experience.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: crazy_dave on May 12, 2011, 06:20:46 am
Doing a hub world is actually rather easy. By using variables to track where in the campaign the player is, and by using a hand-hacked campaign file (FRED's campaign editor can't handle loopbacks). If you look at it in the campaign editor, it'll look like this:

As for the squad management, that's again an application of variables. It's not that hard, if you have a bit of programming experience.

I guess my question is how are you guys doing the UI for interacting with other characters in that world and squad management? Perhaps I've let my imagination run away with me, but from what Gen Battuta was saying I was sort of seeing the hub world as the inside of a ship with you walking into a rec-room or briefing room and talking to other characters and squad mates. But I thought that was beyond the capabilities of the FSO engine which is understandable since it is a space-flight sim. Is it a comm list that you bring up in the hub world and you then have dialogue options?  If you can't say too much about the UI and hub world as not to give away plot points I understand. But I'm interested in how you guys are handling the UI.

Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Satellight on May 12, 2011, 06:34:36 am
...I was sort of seeing the hub world as the inside of a ship with you walking into a rec-room or briefing room and talking to other characters and squad mates.

Starlancer-menu style ? ;7
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Destiny on May 12, 2011, 06:36:53 am
I wanna admit 'STEALTH ONLINE' sounds very cheesy. Maybe Active Stealth or something. Passive stealth is much more reliable though, like the Pegasus. I wonder what the technobabble is going to be.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on May 12, 2011, 08:06:07 am
Doing a hub world is actually rather easy. By using variables to track where in the campaign the player is, and by using a hand-hacked campaign file (FRED's campaign editor can't handle loopbacks). If you look at it in the campaign editor, it'll look like this:

As for the squad management, that's again an application of variables. It's not that hard, if you have a bit of programming experience.

I guess my question is how are you guys doing the UI for interacting with other characters in that world and squad management? Perhaps I've let my imagination run away with me, but from what Gen Battuta was saying I was sort of seeing the hub world as the inside of a ship with you walking into a rec-room or briefing room and talking to other characters and squad mates. But I thought that was beyond the capabilities of the FSO engine which is understandable since it is a space-flight sim. Is it a comm list that you bring up in the hub world and you then have dialogue options?  If you can't say too much about the UI and hub world as not to give away plot points I understand. But I'm interested in how you guys are handling the UI.

It'll be a regular space mission with ships floating around.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: crazy_dave on May 12, 2011, 08:15:56 am
Doing a hub world is actually rather easy. By using variables to track where in the campaign the player is, and by using a hand-hacked campaign file (FRED's campaign editor can't handle loopbacks). If you look at it in the campaign editor, it'll look like this:

As for the squad management, that's again an application of variables. It's not that hard, if you have a bit of programming experience.

I guess my question is how are you guys doing the UI for interacting with other characters in that world and squad management? Perhaps I've let my imagination run away with me, but from what Gen Battuta was saying I was sort of seeing the hub world as the inside of a ship with you walking into a rec-room or briefing room and talking to other characters and squad mates. But I thought that was beyond the capabilities of the FSO engine which is understandable since it is a space-flight sim. Is it a comm list that you bring up in the hub world and you then have dialogue options?  If you can't say too much about the UI and hub world as not to give away plot points I understand. But I'm interested in how you guys are handling the UI.

It'll be a regular space mission with ships floating around.

Aye, that seems reasonable (and still quite nifty) - I am looking forward to it. :)
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: PsychoLandlord on May 12, 2011, 01:32:32 pm
I'm curious as to how you plan on justifying the hub experience, seeing as how I highly doubt anybody will just let Noemi fly a fighter around whenever she wants.

If the hub environment ends up being something like one of the UEF fleets, maybe it will be something like "every hub visit is ostensibly Noemi being assigned to Close Patrol" or something like that?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Snail on May 12, 2011, 01:39:19 pm
I'm curious as to how you plan on justifying the hub experience, seeing as how I highly doubt anybody will just let Noemi fly a fighter around whenever she wants.

If the hub environment ends up being something like one of the UEF fleets, maybe it will be something like "every hub visit is ostensibly Noemi being assigned to Close Patrol" or something like that?
It's explained.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on May 12, 2011, 01:40:58 pm
I'm curious as to how you plan on justifying the hub experience, seeing as how I highly doubt anybody will just let Noemi fly a fighter around whenever she wants.

If the hub environment ends up being something like one of the UEF fleets, maybe it will be something like "every hub visit is ostensibly Noemi being assigned to Close Patrol" or something like that?

There is a justification.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: PsychoLandlord on May 12, 2011, 01:58:39 pm
I'm sure there is, since rule 1 of telling a good story in gaming is to not let gameplay render your story nonsensical. That was in fact, a thinly veiled attempt at drawing out more info.  :D
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on May 12, 2011, 03:39:19 pm
Apart from patrols it could just be sitting around till the "jump in" signal for the next mission comes, or just returning from a mission, training flights, escort for an important ship coming or going, participating in some kind of ceremony (like flying honor guard at a space funeral).
And I'm sure there are many more justifications that I couldn't think of in the two minutes it took to write this post ;)
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: crizza on May 12, 2011, 04:36:36 pm
So...we get overhauled vasudan assets?Nice :D
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: rscaper1070 on May 12, 2011, 04:53:47 pm
That Typhon makes me wonder if R2 will coincide with the release of the new mediavps. :warp:
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on May 12, 2011, 04:58:53 pm
That Typhon makes me wonder if R2 will coincide with the release of the new mediavps. :warp:

Given that neither project is quite sure when it'll be done yet, it would be a lovely coincidence.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Flak on May 12, 2011, 09:24:59 pm
So, the Typhons are going to be buffed up like the Carthage?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on May 13, 2011, 02:55:21 am
The Carthage is a one-of-a-kind ship, the other(s) Orion in service in the GTVA didn't receive half her upgrades. I don't expect most of the remaining Typhons to have similar improvements.

I've been hearing things a long time ago about using the Typhon as a hugeass torpedo boat...
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on May 13, 2011, 03:02:21 am
Yeah, I like the Typhon, Hatshepsut and Demon because they have missile turrets that can be reconverted into torpedo banks or else.

I wouldn't be surprised if BP Hatties and Typhons got something better than Fusion Mortars or Fighter Killers.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Snail on May 13, 2011, 04:26:58 am
So, the Typhons are going to be buffed up like the Carthage?
Probably, or else they'd die instantly. If nothing else they'd get armor.tbl stuff.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on May 13, 2011, 04:54:59 am
We know that with the Eos and the Supernova, the technology for capital ship torpedoes is here. And we know with the Hattie that shows up in WiH1 that the Zods have already quite retrofitted even recent destroyers (pulse turrets).
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: crizza on May 13, 2011, 05:02:46 am
A Typhoon would require more turrets...if you would convert the four fighter killer into torpedo launchers...well, try it in fred ;)
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: swamper123 on May 14, 2011, 04:28:02 pm
Just Perfect ,with this features I will wait for the game as long as necessary .  :p :p
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Insomniac34 on May 14, 2011, 05:01:12 pm
this is amazing
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Droid803 on May 14, 2011, 05:14:30 pm
The main problem with Typhons is that they didn't mix well with beams.
I would presume that any potential typhon appearance would have it be some sort of Torpedo Boat.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: crizza on May 14, 2011, 07:15:11 pm
If there would be torpedo launchers fitted into the fins, it would work as a torpedo destroyer...
but in fred, I always give a Typhon Ultra AAAs...I know, this is not the right thing, but only with them, the ship stands a chance.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Flak on May 14, 2011, 09:01:37 pm
If you ask me, the Typhon need 1 more beam, and just replace that pair of blob turrets with more AAAs or pulse weapons, and maybe something else like torpedoes.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Droid803 on May 14, 2011, 10:22:40 pm
No man, it'll be 50% long range flaks and 50% supernovas.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Ypoknons on May 14, 2011, 10:45:31 pm
Maybe it'll be some sort of massive electronics warfare platform or a FS equivalent of an assault landing ship. (edit) Or a SSM boat.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Sara- on May 15, 2011, 07:33:40 am
Typhons could easily play a large variety of roles other than that of a destroyer. Anything from cargo duty to fighter carrier to mobile base is possible, given that while they are an obsolete design they are still large and capable vessels.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Destiny on May 15, 2011, 08:56:53 am
Typhon logistics destroyer.




...uhh...
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Snail on May 15, 2011, 10:59:28 am
what's wrong with the tawaret
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Raiden on May 15, 2011, 11:31:16 am
So it looks like the opening of R2 will be the battle taking place around Neptune during Delenda Est...very cool. And the Fedayeen undertaking a special op to take back Europa? Involving a sabotage mission in Jupiter's atmosphere? I am down for that. When you guys first mentioned a 'hub' mission I originally imagined Noami would be able to use her new quantum device to return to the red nebula Ken appeared in, and be able to converse with him and perhaps receive cryptic info and such. Sounds like what you've actually got in mind is a lot more ambitious. Can't wait for the finished product. Can we expect any more previews of this sort, perhaps as you come close to finishing Act 4 and then 5?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Dragon on May 15, 2011, 11:37:06 am
It's not really a sabotage mission, but something far more awesome.
And you're right about the "hub" mission. It is also something more ambitious (and awesome).
As for previews, I don't know for sure, but the team will be doing as much as possible to keep you hoping you had a time machine to skip forward to the new release.  :)
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: PsychoLandlord on May 15, 2011, 12:48:17 pm
Ohhhhhh. Didn't even think about the ken-nebula, been so caught up in the more terrestrial aspects of the war that I completely forgot about the Alien gods playing with Humanity. Very cool.

Just out of curiosity, how much time will be spent jumping POV's in R2, or is it just  a one-off thing in a few missions ala AoA?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: swamper123 on May 15, 2011, 01:42:40 pm
I didn't understand the hub mission, It will be like a ''freelancer bar'' style , or something like that? ^^
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: crizza on May 15, 2011, 01:45:17 pm
The Hub mission reminds me of the different parts of the Hyperion in Starcraft 2.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on May 15, 2011, 01:52:06 pm
It will not be as cool or immersive as the Hyperion bar or the bars in Freelancer - we can't render people or rooms, just spaceships.

It will, however, make fictional sense in the setting.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: crizza on May 15, 2011, 02:16:05 pm
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it, and knowing that you're doing your best...it will be great :D
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Trivial Psychic on May 15, 2011, 04:08:31 pm
I'm guessing that the hub would be something like an environment around your base/destroyer where you can interact with other pilots in flight or ships in the area before entering the fighterbay and actually finishing the mission.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: redsniper on May 15, 2011, 06:41:53 pm
Huh, I figured the hub mission would just be taking place inside the twisted confines of Laporte's deteriorating mind, with all the ships and wingmen and stuff being symbolic.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: PsychoLandlord on May 15, 2011, 06:43:59 pm
Huh, I figured the hub mission would just be taking place inside the twisted confines of Laporte's deteriorating mind, with all the ships and wingmen and stuff being symbolic.

Unless I'm mistaken, this was semi-confirmed on the last page.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Raiden on May 16, 2011, 12:24:42 pm
Can I just ask what lighting settings and what amount of grain you guys used for those screenshots in the OP?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: The E on May 16, 2011, 12:36:22 pm
Lighting settings are built-in defaults, with a bloom intensity of 40.

Post processing effects used are:
--saturation (With a $Default value of 0.7 and a $Div value of 50)
--contrast ($Default: 1.1, $Div: 50)
--film grain ($Default: 0.2, $Div: 50)
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Raiden on May 16, 2011, 12:47:17 pm
Thank you Mr. E.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Sara- on May 17, 2011, 04:56:51 pm
Clarified the Custos image in an editing program: (http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9690/custos.png)

Looks great!
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Ravenholme on May 17, 2011, 06:27:08 pm
Clarified the Custos image in an editing program: (http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9690/custos.png)

Looks great!

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f75/chobit-389/Cadius%20Ships/Cad8.jpg)

O hai! :3
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: starlord on May 17, 2011, 06:35:52 pm
uhh... I'm at a loss for words!

most excellent work guys!

that stealth module might actually come in handy for a small star crusader project I have in mind...
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on May 17, 2011, 06:38:31 pm
You use quite a lot of words for someone struck speechless :P, but I agree with you.

Will it also feature nameplates (unless of course it does already, and they are just not visible from that angle)?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: PsychoLandlord on May 17, 2011, 07:00:59 pm
I'm used to seeing those things dying like flies every time I invade a Xenon sector. It's a great model though, always liked it.

I hope they'll last longer in a firefight in WiH.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Darius on May 17, 2011, 08:10:35 pm
Should be a bit more surviveable than the Morioka :P
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Destiny on May 18, 2011, 05:47:52 am
I hope my Trebs and Helioses work against it, despite the ECM. If not I'd have to drag a Maxim or two along...
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Ravenholme on May 18, 2011, 10:03:27 am
I hope my Trebs and Helioses work against it, despite the ECM. If not I'd have to drag a Maxim or two along...

Glad I'm not the only one looking at it and pondering how best to blow it up.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Snail on May 18, 2011, 10:10:31 am
Frontal assault is discouraged.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: crizza on May 18, 2011, 10:54:29 am
Isn't the Custos intended to be a missile/torpedo boat?
As such, she could have a 360° field of fire and also could carry anti strikecraft rockets.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Snail on May 18, 2011, 10:57:05 am
Frontal assault is still discouraged.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on May 18, 2011, 10:59:12 am
Isn't the Custos intended to be a missile/torpedo boat?
As such, she could have a 360° field of fire and also could carry anti strikecraft rockets.

Selectable Warhammers or Darts on the VLS launchers, point defense guns. The black ops gunboat variant carries forward-firing Gattlers and a mass driver.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Destiny on May 18, 2011, 11:01:19 am
You know reverse psychology...




We're going to charge it head-on with full power maximum destruction!
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Snail on May 18, 2011, 11:57:44 am
We're going to charge it head-on with full power maximum destruction!
Such a bad idea...
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Deadly in a Shadow on May 18, 2011, 12:15:47 pm
We're going to charge it head-on with full power maximum destruction!

Uhm, the Nelson tried this if you know what I mean, with full power maxim thrust.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Snail on May 18, 2011, 12:20:04 pm
The black ops gunboat variant carries forward-firing Gattlers and a mass driver.
The man is not joking about this. Dakka dakka. More than enough if you're on the receiving end.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Destiny on May 18, 2011, 12:33:42 pm
I don't recall what the Nelson is, but...

We're going to charge it head-on with full power maximum destruction!
Such a bad idea...
The design of the ship is really, really...sleek. It's practically a perfect ship gunship-ish design that entirely caters to my taste. I can't wait to be flying near/with it. I like that ship a lot, so I'll befriend the Custos, lots and lots! (http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww286/TSADestiny/Friendship.jpg)

Zenryoku zenkai~!
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: starlord on May 18, 2011, 12:38:27 pm
who needs a normandy?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: crizza on May 18, 2011, 12:57:02 pm
The mass effect thing?^^
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: PsychoLandlord on May 18, 2011, 01:13:12 pm
Are these forward Gattlers the stock variant or the SuperGattler on the Solaris? The former is going to kill you, but the latter is going to kill you faster, and I think thats a distinction we need to make here, for Destiny's sake :D

Either way, wonderful amounts of Dakka on that little boat.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: starlord on May 18, 2011, 01:42:36 pm
true!

I wonder how reapers would fare in there...
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: crizza on May 18, 2011, 01:56:34 pm
Well...the Gattler Turrets of the Solaris have a range of 4400...as oposed to a Terslashblue with 6500...
But since there ar no ships mounting this things on their prow turrets...it will give the Tevs a run for their money, if their beams are jammend...given that is it a black ops, this will surely happen^^
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Fury on May 18, 2011, 02:10:34 pm
4400 is range of lifetime, targeting range is 4000. Terslashblue has range of 4500. Note the +Weapon Range set in all weapons.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: crizza on May 18, 2011, 02:20:25 pm
My bad, bust still, my example works or not?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on May 19, 2011, 04:34:45 am
There are the torpedoes and the massdriver to consider though, along with all the electronic warfare equipment.

Quote
who needs a normandy?
The Fedayeen and the SOC, seeing how it can almost completely disappear from sensors for hours and can make FTL jump without utilizing subspace.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Destiny on May 19, 2011, 04:59:27 am
Are these forward Gattlers the stock variant or the SuperGattler on the Solaris? The former is going to kill you, but the latter is going to kill you faster, and I think thats a distinction we need to make here, for Destiny's sake :D

Either way, wonderful amounts of Dakka on that little boat.
For my sake...? Nah, you don't have to...because it's my playstyle to go full power maximum destruction. Salute me if you would, but you should salute the ship because my Trebuchets will knock out the forward guns while I go BOOSTO with all guns blazing to Maxim range.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on May 19, 2011, 05:05:20 am
The escort will tear you apart long before that.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Destiny on May 19, 2011, 05:17:36 am
Without actually experiencing it myself, I can't say I'm intimidated by either the escorts or the Custos. So I'll be patient and wait for the release.

All because the Custos is a pretty aesthetically appealing ship to me.


Although, I was half-hoping the GVCv Dashor to jump out and save the Carthage, because they happened to be deployed together in that particular mission in FS2. A silly thought, isn't it.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on May 19, 2011, 05:38:41 am
Well, last time I checked, the Dashor was still a single Sobek. Against 4 Karunas and escort. It would just have been one more corvette to the UEF killboard.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Destiny on May 19, 2011, 05:43:04 am
While the Karunas were busy pulverizing the Carthage while the Dashor jumped in from side/behind and started to VSlash? Snap, forgot to mention that. Still, I've no indication as of R1 that the UEF as a whole and individual pilots/captains themselves, would treat Vasudan vessels as hostile targets, without provocation. Naturally in this case the UEF'll shoot at the Dashor, but...well.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on May 19, 2011, 06:16:42 am
UEF frigate have a nasty tendency to win against any GTVA corvette from any angle, apart maybe from sath-killing corvettes coming from behind.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on May 19, 2011, 08:42:21 am
Are these forward Gattlers the stock variant or the SuperGattler on the Solaris? The former is going to kill you, but the latter is going to kill you faster, and I think thats a distinction we need to make here, for Destiny's sake :D

Either way, wonderful amounts of Dakka on that little boat.
For my sake...? Nah, you don't have to...because it's my playstyle to go full power maximum destruction. Salute me if you would, but you should salute the ship because my Trebuchets will knock out the forward guns while I go BOOSTO with all guns blazing to Maxim range.

The black ops Custos is shielded and can fire countermeasure swarms, so neither Maxim nor Treb would be very effective.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Commander Zane on May 19, 2011, 08:57:49 am
Are these forward Gattlers the stock variant or the SuperGattler on the Solaris? The former is going to kill you, but the latter is going to kill you faster, and I think thats a distinction we need to make here, for Destiny's sake :D

Either way, wonderful amounts of Dakka on that little boat.
For my sake...? Nah, you don't have to...because it's my playstyle to go full power maximum destruction. Salute me if you would, but you should salute the ship because my Trebuchets will knock out the forward guns while I go BOOSTO with all guns blazing to Maxim range.

The black ops Custos is shielded and can fire countermeasure swarms, so neither Maxim nor Treb would be very effective.
Want to fly it more and more every time I read this thread.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Destiny on May 19, 2011, 09:06:12 am
I agree with you, Zane...a lot.

Are these forward Gattlers the stock variant or the SuperGattler on the Solaris? The former is going to kill you, but the latter is going to kill you faster, and I think thats a distinction we need to make here, for Destiny's sake :D

Either way, wonderful amounts of Dakka on that little boat.
For my sake...? Nah, you don't have to...because it's my playstyle to go full power maximum destruction. Salute me if you would, but you should salute the ship because my Trebuchets will knock out the forward guns while I go BOOSTO with all guns blazing to Maxim range.

The black ops Custos is shielded and can fire countermeasure swarms, so neither Maxim nor Treb would be very effective.
That's quite a problem, isn't it. If there was only a 16-gun Morning Star-er in R2...well, depends on the regeneration rate of the shield, perhaps. Although, since the Custos is that epic, it's worth the wait to go charging head-on at it in the tech room. Hope it appears in many missions!

*complains to GTVI to make swarm Trebs*
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: PsychoLandlord on May 19, 2011, 12:41:38 pm
Must. Fly. Custos. It sounds hilariously broken for its size.

Of course, now I'm imagining Custos' being thrown around like Whitestars, which I'm sure won't be the case, but it makes for a terrifying image nonetheless.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Mars on May 19, 2011, 12:52:50 pm
Circe / Maxim combo sounds like the way to go.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: crizza on May 19, 2011, 03:07:28 pm
Is there already a model for Fred floating around?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Darius on May 19, 2011, 05:13:14 pm
It needs LODs and debris (and probably UVmapping) and probably many other stuff. If the ship gets finished before Part 2 is done, I'll link it up for people who want it.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: crizza on May 19, 2011, 05:54:51 pm
Then you're my hero Darius, can't wait to play with this beauty.
BTW: Will there be a SOC Cretheus as well?
And don't tell me, the Custos and the Cretheus have the same size^^
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Inglonias on May 25, 2011, 08:01:14 am
Speaking of interesting choices, you'll also be tangling with and flying alongside some new hardware.

The Federation's Custos patrol combatant can't stand on its own in line combat, but it's a useful torpedo attacker and it shines as a screening element and convoy raider. Of course, the GTVA has its own answer. Credit goes to our partner Cadius, an X3 modder.

If you liked flying the Karuna frigate in The Blade Itself, you'll probably like the Custos too. It comes in two breeds: a mass produced torpedo attacker, and a more advanced special operations combatant. A nimble sub-cruiser gunboat, the advanced variant of the Custos mounts a spinal mass driver, select-fire torpedoes and heatseeking antifighter missiles, and adequate point defenses. Its real advantages lie in its electronic warfare and tactical systems.

One of the Custos' abilities plays into something beautiful we've implemented in R2: capship mounted countermeasures. Fighters have been able to deploy decoys ever since FreeSpace 2, but now warships will fire volleys of flares to decoy incoming torpedoes and bombs, in a manner inspired by (but not quite as cool as) this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfO3tBjZHZk)
<UninformedOpinion>
Oh... THAT's the secret 1st fleet project!
</UninformedOpinion>
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on May 25, 2011, 08:08:29 am
Why would they need two full logistic ship to build a new small capship and capship countermeasures?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Snail on May 25, 2011, 08:10:50 am
Because Admiral Byrne isn't very good at getting things done
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Ypoknons on May 25, 2011, 09:20:19 am
Or he's better than we know.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Snail on May 25, 2011, 09:30:32 am
Yeah he probably is. Crouching Moron Hidden Badass and all.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on May 25, 2011, 10:12:02 am
If you read the character description in the VA casting thread, you might be surprised.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Inglonias on May 25, 2011, 12:49:26 pm
Why would they need two full logistic ship to build a new small capship and capship countermeasures?
To build a whole lot of them. Perhaps GTVA equipment is special somehow? Maybe taking the spare beam cannons? Who knows?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on May 25, 2011, 12:52:35 pm
Those things aren't armed with beam cannons and a shipyard is much better at building capital ships than a logistic ship.

And I very much doubt that small escort cruisers are "the secret plan that will save us all".... That would be even worse than the overused super ship.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Snail on May 25, 2011, 12:54:08 pm
Read Byrne's lines, it's obvious whatever the "project" is it's not going to be a lot of oversized fighter-gunboats.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Commander Zane on May 25, 2011, 12:54:26 pm
small escort cruisers are "the secret plan that will save us all".... That would be even worse than the overused super ship.
Whitestars were both. :P
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: PsychoLandlord on May 25, 2011, 01:01:24 pm
Despite how horrifying a group of these things would be to anything Cruiser sized or smaller, I'm reasonably sure that using them like Whitestars would end the war in a Tev victory faster. Even with all the Dakka a massed formation of Custos' could probably bring to bear.

Actually, are these things large and slow enough to be targeted by beams?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Inglonias on May 25, 2011, 01:02:40 pm
The Whitestars were kind of awesome, though...

I stand by my <UninformedOpinion> tags, though. Thats what the post was. I was guessing. I guessed wrong. Happens rather often.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on May 25, 2011, 01:04:39 pm
Yes, they can be targeted by beams, and no they are not a war-winning swarm of death bees that will tip the strategic balance.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: PsychoLandlord on May 25, 2011, 01:13:23 pm
Yes, they can be targeted by beams,

Well, the Custos is boned. :p

And no they are not a war-winning swarm of death bees that will tip the strategic balance.

And when you put it like that, it actually kind of makes me sad they aren't. :sigh:
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on May 25, 2011, 01:16:38 pm
Nah the Custos can do stuff about the beam threat. It's a ship with a tactical niche, and like most other ships it's boned in certain mission profiles and strong in others.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: PsychoLandlord on May 25, 2011, 01:18:33 pm
Nah the Custos can do stuff about the beam threat. It's a ship with a tactical niche, and like most other ships it's boned in certain mission profiles and strong in others.

I was being facetious, but it's good to know that it wont be utterly without recourse should a good size capship show up.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on May 25, 2011, 02:37:26 pm
small escort cruisers are "the secret plan that will save us all".... That would be even worse than the overused super ship.
Whitestars were both. :P
With 470 or so meters in length a Whitestar ought to be quite a bit bigger than a Custos (a Hyperion is something around 300 m in length according to FRED, when you place a fighter in front and back and take the distance between them, for comparison).
And the Whitestar were only so strong because they incorporated Vorlon technology. A GTVA logistic ship wouldn't help them with building Vishnan/Shivan technology into their ships, even if they got their hands on some samples.

Edit: Right... 300 meter, not kilometer for the Hyperion  :o
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Snail on May 25, 2011, 02:40:15 pm
300km? What?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Commander Zane on May 25, 2011, 02:43:38 pm
small escort cruisers are "the secret plan that will save us all".... That would be even worse than the overused super ship.
Whitestars were both. :P
With 470 or so meters in length a Whitestar ought to be quite a bit bigger than a Custos (a Hyperion is something around 300 km in length according to FRED, when you place a fighter in front and back and take the distance between them, for comparison).
And the Whitestar were only so strong because they incorporated Vorlon technology. A GTVA logistic ship wouldn't help them with building Vishnan/Shivan technology into their ships, even if they got their hands on some samples.
I didn't say the Custos is Blue Planet's Whitestar. I said Whitestars were the secret plan to save everyone as well as the overused super ship.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on May 25, 2011, 03:04:48 pm
Yes, but Babylon 5 is so old, that is wasn't overused back then :P
Besides they were still a lot weaker than the ships they were fighting, so I'm not so sure they count as super ships. A Whitestar could only take on a Shadow battlecrap on it's own if they had a powerfull telepath on board. And even then they had to take their jumpdrive offline and redirect all the energy to the weapons, leaving them stranded for 20 minutes.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Commander Zane on May 25, 2011, 03:09:42 pm
How restricted will we be to seeing other shots of the Custos before release by the way? I'm eager to see action shots of it. ;7
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: crizza on May 25, 2011, 04:18:40 pm
Hm, I bluntly guess, that some Blackops Custos will kill Serkr...
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on May 25, 2011, 06:38:05 pm
They might be good, but to take down three corvettes? Not without some serious bomber support.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: crizza on May 25, 2011, 08:21:49 pm
Hm...they have spinal mounted gaus-cannons...ECM thingies...so they can snipe and counter their beams, while pummeling them with torpedos...protected by Kents and Uriels...well...
I want the modell for testing purposes...but yes, I know, it isn't finifhed yet.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: PsychoLandlord on May 25, 2011, 08:38:45 pm
Serkr has more than beams at their disposal, and considering who they answer to I highly doubt they'll ever be in a situation where a bunch of Custos' and Kents can disarm and disable them, destroy any cover they have, and slowly whittle them down and destroy them without any backup arriving.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Mars on May 25, 2011, 11:33:51 pm
Am I the only one who really hopes the UEF fails miserably by the end?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Ypoknons on May 26, 2011, 12:04:51 am
Why?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Mars on May 26, 2011, 12:12:40 am
Why?

Because not many people seem to have said anything to indicate otherwise?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Hades on May 26, 2011, 12:14:03 am
Am I the only one who really hopes the UEF fails miserably by the end?
Nah, I do as well, not to mention it's a hell of a lot more likely than them winning.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Black Wolf on May 26, 2011, 01:06:19 am
I'd be happy to see the UEF go down too, so you're not alone. :D GTVA all the way.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Ypoknons on May 26, 2011, 01:07:04 am
Why do you want them to fail, and I empahize, miserably?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Fury on May 26, 2011, 01:11:13 am
You folks seem to assume that one side has to win and the other lose. I wonder if it's really going to be quite as black and white conclusion.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Mars on May 26, 2011, 01:13:20 am
You folks seem to assume that one side has to win and the other lose. I wonder if it's really going to be quite as black and white conclusion.

Well, the whole "The GTVA must be destroyed" thing kind of suggests it.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Ypoknons on May 26, 2011, 01:26:53 am
Aren't those just voices in Laporte's head?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Mars on May 26, 2011, 01:35:55 am
Aren't those just voices in Laporte's head?

I think it goes a bit deeper than as far as you're looking.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Ypoknons on May 26, 2011, 02:58:26 am
Ok, I certainly phrased that misleadingly. Certainly they are voices in Laporte's head, but at the same time voices in the head have significance in BP because we know they probably come from powerful alienz. Nevertheless, I don't see any reason to see them as any more than the powers that may be speaking to Laporte, rather than the plot speaking to the player.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on May 26, 2011, 03:07:53 am
Ken certainly seems to try to turn the war into one of annihilation, with one side being completely wiped out, but that doesn't mean he's going to be successfull.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Kosh on May 26, 2011, 06:07:16 am
Ken certainly seems to try to turn the war into one of annihilation, with one side being completely wiped out, but that doesn't mean he's going to be successfull.


I'm not even sure how that can happen. There's no way the UEF has anywhere near the firepower to launch a successful counter invasion plus given their dependence on missiles and rail guns for their main armaments they must be a logistical nightmare outside of Sol. The Tev side of the GTVA actually could wipe them all out, but doesn't have the will to commit enough forces to actually do so.

Although now with the Vasudans gearing up against the UEF this could change.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on May 26, 2011, 06:42:54 am
I don't think it's important for Ken which side wins, as long as one side is going down. And the harder the UEF is fighting back, the harder the GTVA will try to beat them and thus move closer to fullfilling Kens seeming goal.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on May 26, 2011, 07:51:27 am
The Tev side of the GTVA actually could wipe them all out, but doesn't have the will to commit enough forces to actually do so.

More that they don't have the logistical weight to do so.

Doesn't it seem that an unstable young woman, faced with a conflict between her deeply held beliefs and the need to hate the enemy in order to survive, might find a way to externalize that hate?  :nervous:
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Destiny on May 26, 2011, 08:02:23 am
Materializing her hatred as a physical weapon!? C-4-1 the Shivans?!
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on May 26, 2011, 08:17:27 am
Materializing her hatred as a physical weapon!?

no  :blah:
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Sara- on May 26, 2011, 09:02:41 am
I don't think it's important for Ken which side wins, as long as one side is going down. And the harder the UEF is fighting back, the harder the GTVA will try to beat them and thus move closer to fullfilling Kens seeming goal.

Indeed, if Ken wants chaos he won't care. To even go a step further on your assessment, the harder the UEF has to fight back, the more they fall back into militant and aggressive tendencies. The whole friction between the council and the fleets is a good example of that and it always seems Laporte has saved the day so that events could unfold further.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Snail on May 26, 2011, 09:54:04 am
Materializing her hatred as a physical weapon!? C-4-1 the Shivans?!
Taking "externalize" a bit too literally, methinks...
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Kosh on May 26, 2011, 10:39:13 am
The Tev side of the GTVA actually could wipe them all out, but doesn't have the will to commit enough forces to actually do so.

More that they don't have the logistical weight to do so.

Doesn't it seem that an unstable young woman, faced with a conflict between her deeply held beliefs and the need to hate the enemy in order to survive, might find a way to externalize that hate?  :nervous:


You mean like schizophrenia? Hearing voices in your head kind of thing?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on May 26, 2011, 10:41:51 am
It certainly seems like a possibility for her, doesn't it?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on May 26, 2011, 11:18:43 am
Yes, but as far as I know "pure" shizophrenia isn't giving you a Nagari factor of 1000.
Now the question is: Does the Nagari factor come from the visions, which are actually alien communications, or are the visions and voices a negative side-effect of the high Nagari sensitivity and Ken is in fact just a figment of her overstrained mind?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Luis Dias on May 26, 2011, 11:22:38 am
So we will learn that Laporte is actually the god of BP universe, unbeknownst to even herself, and that the Shivans are the creation of the internal conflict of Laporte between her peaceful drives and the need to kill humans who are out to get her because her peaceful beliefs are no match against the Shivans she created herself. Now that would be fun.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Logistics on May 26, 2011, 12:01:58 pm
So we will learn that Laporte is actually the god of BP universe, unbeknownst to even herself, and that the Shivans are the creation of the internal conflict of Laporte between her peaceful drives and the need to kill humans who are out to get her because her peaceful beliefs are no match against the Shivans she created herself. Now that would be fun.

Blue Planet: Haruhi Suzumiya?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Ypoknons on May 26, 2011, 01:20:48 pm
Doesn't it seem that an unstable young woman, faced with a conflict between her deeply held beliefs and the need to hate the enemy in order to survive, might find a way to externalize that hate?  :nervous:
And if this wasn't a video game, I'd believe you.

Blue Planet: Haruhi Suzumiya?
XD
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Sara- on May 26, 2011, 01:24:39 pm
Just had a random moment of clarity. Maybe Ken really IS just a schizophrenic delusion and not a secret shivan, vishan or brahma. The whole Ken thing might be a red herring to throw the player/viewer/reader onto a false trail.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Snail on May 26, 2011, 01:26:00 pm
Or maybe someone is spiking her drinks and stuff.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Ypoknons on May 26, 2011, 01:32:26 pm
Perhaps. But she's special somehow, otherwise the Elder wouldn't have messaged her.

Unless she was just going Noemi, you must get some fried chicken for Martin on the way back.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Sara- on May 26, 2011, 01:47:06 pm
Perhaps. But she's special somehow, otherwise the Elder wouldn't have messaged her.

Unless she was just going Noemi, you must get some fried chicken for Martin on the way back.

Special is also a synonym for negatively different. :P But I'm sure Noemi plays a very special role, or she wouldn't be the PC (player character).
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on May 26, 2011, 02:05:33 pm
The message might have been to take care that her hate doesn't consume her.
If I heard from Mandho what a nice, good and peacefull girl she is and then she regularely pops up at the top of the killboards and becomes famous for combat highs (not to mention the trafer from 1st fleet to the Indus), I would worry about that being the case.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Luis Dias on May 27, 2011, 10:26:54 am
Ok now, no more leaks?

You people have to maintain a certain level of interest, else no one will even remember what's it all about when you release it.

(shhhhhhht! don't laugh now, I had to try something!)
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Fury on February 10, 2012, 10:43:26 am
(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/8513/screen0026s.png)

And some Typhon goodiness if you happened to miss it over at FS Upgrade board. (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=75067.msg1579899#msg1579899)
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Ryuseiken on February 10, 2012, 10:49:21 am
Awesome picture, kinda wish the Narayana was right side up relative to the photo though. I love the oldschool way the bridge looks in the Narayana and the Karuna models.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Klaustrophobia on February 11, 2012, 01:27:42 am
that looks hideous.  those effects are going to be optional right?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Crybertrance on February 11, 2012, 03:22:08 am
that looks hideous.  those effects are going to be optional right?

I hope so too, Or at least configurable to some degree.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Fury on February 11, 2012, 03:32:41 am
You can either turn them on or off in the launcher. Or resort to editing post_processing.tbl.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on February 11, 2012, 12:15:14 pm
I'm pretty sure that was done, just to show off the effect, or maybe from a cutscene.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on February 13, 2012, 08:35:24 am
that looks hideous.  those effects are going to be optional right?

This isn't from a standard combat mission, it's more of, uh, a Ken-type thing
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Deadly in a Shadow on February 13, 2012, 09:29:46 am
I guess every Ken mission is supposed to have godrays.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on February 13, 2012, 09:40:46 am
No wait, I'm an idiot -- Klaustrophobia, what you're seeing here is simply the usual whiteout you get when you look at a sun, but with god rays added.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Crybertrance on February 13, 2012, 11:46:56 pm
No wait, I'm an idiot -- Klaustrophobia, what you're seeing here is simply the usual whiteout you get when you look at a sun, but with god rays crepuscular rays  added.

Fix'd
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Thaeris on February 13, 2012, 11:48:35 pm
No wait, I'm an idiot -- Klaustrophobia, what you're seeing here is simply the usual whiteout you get when you look at a sun, but with god rays crepuscular rays  added.

Fix'd

Oh. Dear. GOD.

Grow up, man.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on February 14, 2012, 01:36:31 am
Oh. Dear. Unexistant. GOD.

Grow up, man.
Fix0r'd for great justice.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Scotty on February 14, 2012, 02:35:36 am
Grow up man.  That was entirely unnecessary, especially in the context of the conversation.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 14, 2012, 04:51:16 am
Is there any more Info on the Nexus Cruiser in R2 and if so, is it cleared for public dissemination? :nervous:
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Darius on February 14, 2012, 07:06:38 am
Haven't got round to turreting/LODs yet. It's still floating around somewhere in max format.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Spoon on February 14, 2012, 02:41:21 pm
Maybe its the lighting settings but that screen with the godrays looks way overdone ):

No wait, I'm an idiot -- Klaustrophobia, what you're seeing here is simply the usual whiteout you get when you look at a sun, but with god rays crepuscular rays  added.

Fix'd
Oh. Dear. Unexistant. GOD.

Grow up, man.
Fix0r'd for great justice.
Why are you two so incredibly sad?
I'll give you a 6/10 trollscore for getting me to reply.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on February 15, 2012, 10:21:16 am
No wait, I'm an idiot -- Klaustrophobia, what you're seeing here is simply the usual whiteout you get when you look at a sun, but with god rays crepuscular rays  added.

Fix'd

'Fixing' things people already know makes you look a bit daft, mate.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Jellyfish on February 15, 2012, 12:32:24 pm
Surely the name and role of new ships appearing in WiH2 is classified, but can you tell us how many of those are there? Three or four?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on February 15, 2012, 12:35:32 pm
We know the UEB Lapis, the UEC Custos (standard and Spec-Ops varients), the GTC Cretheus and the GTCv Aegis will be new ships featured in WiH2. The three firsts are in the recent update, the latter is a variant of the Diomedes equipped with TAG beams and TAG-slaved Trebuchet launchers.

There are of course the ships that were already in the old version of WiH1 but that weren't used, like the Izra'il, the Ainsarii and the Vajradhara.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: redsniper on February 16, 2012, 10:56:03 am
TAG-slaved Trebuchet launchers

D: :shaking:
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on February 16, 2012, 11:08:11 am
Avoid the TAG beams and you won't get Treb'd, pilot !
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: crizza on February 16, 2012, 11:10:41 am
This would be so sick, an AAA-beam hits you some thousand metres away from the ship and BAM, you have multiple Trebs coming for you :)
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Sara- on February 16, 2012, 11:46:03 am
How about paint bombs? Through hidden mines in asteroid or debris fields, that when exploding leave a unique radioactive residue on your ships hull, making you sitting duck against all the trebs and beams shot at you, not to mention any AWACS that could jam your only chance to hit subspace.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Crybertrance on February 16, 2012, 11:48:21 am
This would be so sick, an AAA-beam hits you some thousand metres away from the ship and BAM, you have multiple Trebs coming for you :)

Can I has this for the UEF too?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Deadly in a Shadow on February 16, 2012, 12:25:10 pm
This would be so sick, an AAA-beam hits you some thousand metres away from the ship and BAM, you have multiple Trebs coming for you :)

Can I has this for the UEF too?
Something like a TAG-Gauss cannon with Grimlers (oh wait Slammers) appearing of nowhere?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: crizza on February 16, 2012, 05:47:15 pm
This would be so sick, an AAA-beam hits you some thousand metres away from the ship and BAM, you have multiple Trebs coming for you :)

Can I has this for the UEF too?
Something like a TAG-Gauss cannon with Grimlers (oh wait Slammers) appearing of nowhere?
I could live with a beam painting me for long range missiles rather then a GAuss projectile hitting, and most likely piercing my fighter...
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Aesaar on February 16, 2012, 06:17:49 pm
I could live with a beam painting me for long range missiles rather then a GAuss projectile hitting, and most likely piercing my fighter...

Or not even piercing your shields.  Gauss cannons don't do much damage against shielded targets (just 300.  The Perseus has 350 shields).
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: CT27 on February 16, 2012, 06:30:23 pm
That Custos looks cool.

Hopefully the GTVA will get some new toys too that can match it. :cool:
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on February 16, 2012, 06:34:51 pm
That Custos looks cool.

Hopefully the GTVA will get some new toys too that can match it. :cool:

Yep, they get the Cretheus
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Mars on February 16, 2012, 08:40:12 pm
I just realized that the Aeigis would be a pretty effective countermeasure to a lot of the UEFs primary advantages (Narayana level range). I wonder if the Trebuchets will be unmodified.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Jellyfish on February 16, 2012, 09:54:12 pm
Why would the GTVA need a corvette as a Treb platform? Long range subsystem disabling? Anti-fighter/bomber sweeper?
Because existing fighter wings can already do that.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: SpardaSon21 on February 16, 2012, 10:32:33 pm
No, existing GTVA fighter wings get shredded by UEF point defense and have trouble with the UEF's high-performance fighters.  An Aegis corvette able to spew many Trebuchets at a time will prevent a serious long-ranged threat to UEF strikecraft while having more staying power in sustained battles than a wing of Ares fighters.  I don't know how many launchers an Aegis will have, but it will probably have a great deal many of them since it has to compete with flexible and cheaper Ares fighters as a long-ranged anti-strikecraft option.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Jellyfish on February 16, 2012, 10:39:27 pm
No, existing GTVA fighter wings get shredded by UEF point defense and have trouble with the UEF's high-performance fighters.
Looks like Threat Exigence Initiative's new fighters aren't making the cut. Guess it's time for a Wave Three of those?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Qent on February 16, 2012, 11:22:18 pm
TEI fighters are for wading through endless waves of flimsy Shivan fighters.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Jellyfish on February 16, 2012, 11:29:42 pm
That sounds horribly like 'overspecialization', and that kills armies more surely than any enemy action.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Aesaar on February 16, 2012, 11:30:18 pm
Last I checked, the Nyx was created specifically to respond to UEF fighters and gunships.  And the Atalanta is more than capable of going toe-to-toe with a Kentauroi.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Hades on February 16, 2012, 11:53:09 pm
TEI fighters are for wading through endless waves of flimsy Shivan fighters.
Which, realistically, aren't exactly flimsy and that's more of a game balancing thing than anything.

I mean really, imagine Shivan ships and guns being highly superior to yours like they are in the canon lore. That'd not make for a fun gaming experience.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Fury on February 17, 2012, 12:02:49 am
That'd not make for a fun gaming experience.
If done right, it could be. But the end result would be very different from original FS.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Aesaar on February 17, 2012, 12:16:13 am
That'd not make for a fun gaming experience.
If done right, it could be. But the end result would be very different from original FS.
To be fair, BP is already quite different from the original FS.  I'd say for the better.  If/when we see Shivans again in BP, I really hope they get rebalanced.  The powerful fighter opponents we have fighting the GTVA make for much more interesting gameplay than the rather boring Shivan ones.  It'd be a real shame if that wasn't preserved.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Qent on February 17, 2012, 01:00:21 am
I mean really, imagine Shivan ships and guns being highly superior to yours like they are in the canon lore. That'd not make for a fun gaming experience.
They are not canonically highly superior, except for being much more maneuverable, which was also stated in the mission dialog.

But this is BP, where I think there's a real explanation somewhere in the tech room....
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: qwadtep on February 17, 2012, 01:03:35 am
The weakness of Shivan fighters made sense through FS2. Their shield tech was stolen very early in the Great War and the GTVA has been improving it and their anti-shield solutions ever since. It would have been a much different story if you had to kill the Lucifer with an ML-16.

That said, after having everything beneath superdestroyer turned to nebular gas in FS2, I really hope the Shivans have learned something about the Tevs, too.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: crizza on February 17, 2012, 02:21:26 am
I could live with a beam painting me for long range missiles rather then a GAuss projectile hitting, and most likely piercing my fighter...

Or not even piercing your shields.  Gauss cannons don't do much damage against shielded targets (just 300.  The Perseus has 350 shields).
Oh, don't know why, but I thought we were speaking about a capship massdriver/gaus-cannon thing^^
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Hades on February 17, 2012, 07:18:49 am
They are not canonically highly superior, except for being much more maneuverable, which was also stated in the mission dialog.

But this is BP, where I think there's a real explanation somewhere in the tech room....
In FS1 they practically screamed that Shivan ships were drastically superior every mission or so, even with shields.

Fairly certain it had been said as well in FS2, at least in a couple of command briefings. At the very least, I distinctly remember it being implied, like in the first mission fighting them.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on February 17, 2012, 07:31:14 am
From the debriefing of FS1's "Out of the dark, into the night" :
Quote
The ships are not detectable by our sensors.  Worse, they appear to have some type of energy-shielding system, making them nearly immune to our attacks.

But the greatest concern is their weapons.  They are more powerful than anything in the GTA or VPE arsenal.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Aesaar on February 17, 2012, 07:33:53 am
Oh, don't know why, but I thought we were speaking about a capship massdriver/gaus-cannon thing^^
We were.  And I was saying that capital ship gauss cannons do next to no damage (relatively speaking) to shields, so your concerns about your fighter getting destroyed by one was unfounded.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on February 17, 2012, 08:45:25 am
Why would the GTVA need a corvette as a Treb platform? Long range subsystem disabling? Anti-fighter/bomber sweeper?
Because existing fighter wings can already do that.

They also run out of ammo.

If the Shivans ever reappear in BP they will show expanded capabilities. Remember that the Shivans in AoA existed in a parallel universe in which they had never encountered beam-armed Terran vessels.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Dragon on February 17, 2012, 09:27:12 am
From the debriefing of FS1's "Out of the dark, into the night" :
Quote
The ships are not detectable by our sensors.  Worse, they appear to have some type of energy-shielding system, making them nearly immune to our attacks.

But the greatest concern is their weapons.  They are more powerful than anything in the GTA or PVE arsenal.
Note, by that time, you were armed with ML-16 and Furies. Then, it was correct, as neither GTA nor PVE really had anything better. This did not stayed true for long though, Avenger outclassed Shivan weapons by a fair margin.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Qent on February 17, 2012, 10:19:31 am
I skimmed through the BP tech room, and regardless of what's in FS2, BP explicitly points out that the inferiority of Shivan primaries (to BP-era weapons) is because they're operating at a fraction of their peak effectiveness. They could outperform the Kayser, but they don't.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Jellyfish on February 17, 2012, 04:22:10 pm
It'd be a good idea to operate under the assumption that they realize this and up the kill-o-huertz settings on all their guns.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on February 17, 2012, 04:38:15 pm
As I see it, there are only two good reasons for saying their weapons are operating on half efficiency.
1) They are not in controll of their own tech (replication of captured/given tech they don't understand, being stupid clones, being controlled by a higher evil, in their constant warring they lost the knowledge they once possesed.... non of these are particularly likely scenarios for the BP Shivans I think).
2) To have room to make them stronger in BP3, without the need to invent new weapons for them.

My money would be on 2).
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Dragon on February 17, 2012, 04:54:06 pm
Well, you could say it's all part of some bigger plan. It'll most likely be explained at one point, in a way you'll never expect.  :)
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Hades on February 17, 2012, 10:45:42 pm
Note, by that time, you were armed with ML-16 and Furies. Then, it was correct, as neither GTA nor PVE really had anything better. This did not stayed true for long though, Avenger outclassed Shivan weapons by a fair margin.
There's no canon information for that and game balance isn't really evidence for an argument like this.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Qent on February 18, 2012, 01:15:42 am
Avenger outclassed Shivan weapons by a fair margin.
There's no canon information for that and game balance isn't really evidence for an argument like this.

What's wrong with game balance? It could be the case that there is a canon universe with facts contradicting the tables, but that doesn't have to be the case. I think it's okay to take the in-game stats as canon especially in the absence of any contradictory canon.

EDIT: That was the part you were referring to?

EDIT2: And once again this is all moot, because Blue Planet explicitly draws attention to the inferiority of Shivan weapons, along with epic confusion as to why.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Klaustrophobia on February 18, 2012, 06:35:08 am
wasn't the BP entry about shivan weapons specifically for the purpose of rectifying the gameplay balance with the fluff that shivan tech is vastly superior?  that's what i got out of it anyway, and i think i remember a BP team member saying something to this effect.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: The E on February 18, 2012, 06:36:51 am
Then you are not thinking about this in the right way. There is a reason for the discrepancies that has nothing to do with fluff vs gameplay, but with what the shivans are.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Scotty on February 18, 2012, 07:48:19 am
Shivan technologies operate at a fraction of their total potential.

Shivan's destroy species to preserve the balance of the universe.

Inferrance: Shivan technologies operate at whatever level they must in order to force the current subjects to adapt or die.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Crybertrance on February 18, 2012, 09:07:19 am

Shivan's destroy species to preserve the balance of the universe.


I thot those were the Vishnans....
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Hades on February 18, 2012, 09:48:54 am
What's wrong with game balance? It could be the case that there is a canon universe with facts contradicting the tables, but that doesn't have to be the case. I think it's okay to take the in-game stats as canon especially in the absence of any contradictory canon.

EDIT: That was the part you were referring to?

EDIT2: And once again this is all moot, because Blue Planet explicitly draws attention to the inferiority of Shivan weapons, along with epic confusion as to why.
In-game balance is typically the way it is not because of fluff. Like how the Deimos nearly has the same hull hit points as most destroyers, or the Hecate supposedly having more firepower than the Orion but in-game processing next to nothing in comparison, the Orion supposedly having 'dozens of death dealing turrets' while having a mere 17, etc etc.

Quote
I thot those were the Vishnans....
FS1 pretty much said that it was the Shivans in what, every Ancient's cutscene?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on February 18, 2012, 11:32:49 am
FS1 said what the Ancients believed about the Shivans, not necessarily how the Shivans really are.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Woolie Wool on February 18, 2012, 12:02:50 pm
TEI fighters are for wading through endless waves of flimsy Shivan fighters.
Which, realistically, aren't exactly flimsy and that's more of a game balancing thing than anything.

I mean really, imagine Shivan ships and guns being highly superior to yours like they are in the canon lore. That'd not make for a fun gaming experience.

I've done that for Conflict 2395, and it is a fun experience. Well, not necessarily highly superior, but their greater damage output to yours is noticeable. It's actually quite fun, and gives the Shivan fighters a sense of menace they haven't had since FS1. One mitigating factor is that I use the lower Fury AI classes (Lieutenant, Captain) for Shivan fighters and higher classes for GTVA and FDSR fighters.

Though I bet the scene where the Shivans are first introduced will kill many first-time players of the campaign at least once...
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Hades on February 18, 2012, 04:46:26 pm
FS1 said what the Ancients believed about the Shivans, not necessarily how the Shivans really are.
It'd be pretty silly to throw in an unreliable narrator in a segment that's meant to advance the plot in some way.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Qent on February 18, 2012, 05:18:07 pm
In-game balance is typically the way it is not because of fluff. Like how the Deimos nearly has the same hull hit points as most destroyers, or the Hecate supposedly having more firepower than the Orion but in-game processing next to nothing in comparison, the Orion supposedly having 'dozens of death dealing turrets' while having a mere 17, etc etc.
Those are all examples of fluff contradicting tabled stats. There is no canon evidence that Shivan primaries are better than the Avenger.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Woolie Wool on February 18, 2012, 05:25:57 pm
When analyzing video games, fluff is always taken as a higher priority than the game behavior. if the fluff says one thing and the tables say another, the fluff is right and the tables are wrong.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Qent on February 18, 2012, 06:04:59 pm
There is no canon evidence that Shivan primaries are better than the Avenger.
(Meaning no fluff, specifically.)
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: qwadtep on February 18, 2012, 09:51:05 pm
FS1 said what the Ancients believed about the Shivans, not necessarily how the Shivans really are.
It'd be pretty silly to throw in an unreliable narrator in a segment that's meant to advance the plot in some way.
Whatever the case in FS1 and FS2, the Shivan/Vishan dialogue in AoA all but confirms that the Shivans in BP are supposed to destroy species which endanger the enlightenment of others.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: MikeRoz on February 19, 2012, 12:37:18 am
FS1 said what the Ancients believed about the Shivans, not necessarily how the Shivans really are.
It'd be pretty silly to throw in an unreliable narrator in a segment that's meant to advance the plot in some way.
This may be a bit off topic, but I've ALWAYS assumed unreliable narrator on the cutscene narrations, in both games.

The ancients go from an empire spanning galaxies to extinction. Their reaction? "Our empire must have been too big."

The Shivans waltz into Capella, a colony of exiled Terrans, and blow up a star. How does Petrarch interpret this? "Oh, they must have been trying to get home, like we are."

To me, both these assumptions are flawed. The Ancients try to figure out the Shivans by thinking like Ancients. The exiled terrans try to figure out the Shivans by thinking like Terrans. This is like trying to puzzle out why the sky 'decided' to rain one day and remain clear the next. Shivan motives are as far beyond humans as the weather is beyond someone without any understanding of meterology or the water cycle.

Of course there was that interview with the people from Volition, and now we know that had FS3 been made, Petrarch's baseless ramblings would have been vindicated. Now we know that Petrarch wasn't just a lost mortal trying to make sense of the chaos, but he had the writers whispering into his ear. It's not the way I would have gone.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on February 19, 2012, 04:55:30 am
FS1 said what the Ancients believed about the Shivans, not necessarily how the Shivans really are.
It'd be pretty silly to throw in an unreliable narrator in a segment that's meant to advance the plot in some way.
Then tell me now the Ancients could have been able to get reliable information on the Shivans? The Shivans don't communicate and the game never mentioned any archeological sites the Ancients uncovered, that gave them information of the Shivans.
So the only thing the Ancients had, was what they thought about the Shivans, with no way to assertain the truth of their believes.
The cutscenes were just a video-message left behind by the extinct race and later uncovered by the Vasudan scientists, not some kind of divine message of the ultimate, unvarnished truth. Because if it was, the Shivans would have charged their 80 Juggernaughts through every single inhabited system and wiped out both the Human and Vasudan races.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Qent on February 19, 2012, 10:47:15 am
I'll buy that the narrations could possibly be incorrect. But it always seemed that they were at least intended to be correct.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: MikeRoz on February 19, 2012, 02:10:49 pm
I'll buy that the narrations could possibly be incorrect. But it always seemed that they were at least intended to be correct.
You've hit the nail on the head. The writers intended them to be correct, even though they gave no logical reason to assume that the narrators had sufficient information to puzzle out the Shivans' intentions.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on February 19, 2012, 02:39:22 pm
But it also gives the benefit of deniability. If you tell the words through a possibly biased, or even possibly mistaken source, like the ancients, you can just rewrite the story later, without contradicting yourself.
I think that is just what :v-old: did. They changed how the Shivans acted, or rather why they acted in FS2 and if someone said "But in FS1 it was told that the Shivans are like this and that, so it makes no sense for them doing X and Y in FS2!", they can just say that the cutscenes only showed what the Ancients (or the single Ancients who made the recordings at any rate) believed, not how the Shivans really are.

In my eyes, the fact that the Shivans stopped at Capella, instead of immediately sending their 80 Sath' onwards to wipe out the GTVA shows that there is more, or something completely different, going on with them than just "destroying the destroyers" and thus proved the views the Ancients expressed in their cutscenes wrong or at least incomplete.
And a good change it was too, I think. "Kill them all" is just such a flat and boring goal for an enemy, better to have them mysterious like the FS2 Shivans and keeping the player wondering what they'll do and why, untill short before the end.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Hades on February 20, 2012, 12:12:07 am
But it also gives the benefit of deniability. If you tell the words through a possibly biased, or even possibly mistaken source, like the ancients, you can just rewrite the story later, without contradicting yourself.
I think that is just what :v-old: did. They changed how the Shivans acted, or rather why they acted in FS2 and if someone said "But in FS1 it was told that the Shivans are like this and that, so it makes no sense for them doing X and Y in FS2!", they can just say that the cutscenes only showed what the Ancients (or the single Ancients who made the recordings at any rate) believed, not how the Shivans really are.

In my eyes, the fact that the Shivans stopped at Capella, instead of immediately sending their 80 Sath' onwards to wipe out the GTVA shows that there is more, or something completely different, going on with them than just "destroying the destroyers" and thus proved the views the Ancients expressed in their cutscenes wrong or at least incomplete.
And a good change it was too, I think. "Kill them all" is just such a flat and boring goal for an enemy, better to have them mysterious like the FS2 Shivans and keeping the player wondering what they'll do and why, untill short before the end.
That doesn't prove anything. That just means they acted differently for different reasons, they're a sentient species, they've got a goal.

Doesn't mean it's their only goal.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on February 20, 2012, 04:45:49 am
Quote
...shows that there is more, or something completely different, going on with them than just...
Notice the "something more, or"?
I didn't say the Shivans don't want to kill us, I only said they wanted something else as well (and obviously they wanted it even more than our destruction, otherwise they'd have wiped us out and only blown up capella afterwards).
Since the ancients didn't know about that "something", whatever that is, it proves that even if what they believe isn't wrong, it's still only part of the truth, not the whole truth.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: PeterX on February 27, 2012, 03:21:27 am
What happens to Kappa wing in FS2 and be a wing from the GTVA and one wing from the UEF make a time travel to this timepoint on Gamma Draconis nebula.
Can they find the answer of this question? And in AoA the Shivans search for a race like the Brahmans ? .... and they do continue to search them?
....and what species will spell for all known species the truth?
Peter

Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on February 27, 2012, 03:55:12 am
I wouldn't say the Shivans are searching for a race of creators, more like waiting for them, while they wipe out the candidates that proved themselfs unworthy in their eyes.
As for the time travel, how would kappa wing and one UEF wing even find each other in that soup. And even if they did, what good could two wings all on their own do, against the whole Shivan armada? They'd be wiped out in short order, without anyone ever hearing of them again (which is most likely what happened to kappa wing in the first place).

Now if kappa would travel into the future, instead of the UEF wing going into the past, that could be used to tell a story in the style of Homesick perhaps (with the way UEF ships are, they'd need to find something that can resupply and refuel them throughout their journey), though you'd have to find a way to get the UEF wing all the way over to the nebula beyond gamma draconis, or alternatively have the two meet in gamma draconis and then fly into the capella nebula (assuming it cooled down far enough so they don't get melted to slag... I'm not sure how hot the remnants of a supernova are, or how fast they cool down.... or if they really leave a nebula in reality for that matter).
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: PeterX on February 27, 2012, 05:28:06 am
....And what rumors are going on the(may be) 6th species around all other species talk about? They are telling the GTVA pilots and the UEF that the Ancient fear them,they ´re at war with the Shivans and they knew a bit of the Brahmans The 1st of all.
Was that the contact to species of guardians like the Nightmares or Negators???  And is the nebula the missing link to all that what happens?
Can this story happens in BP WiH2 or 3 ?
Peter
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: The E on February 27, 2012, 05:46:12 am
Ummm

Are you using google translate or something? Because although all words in that post are english, the syntax clearly isn't.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: PeterX on February 27, 2012, 05:58:32 am
I didnt use any script on translators or machines to post here,you may know i´m a german.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: The E on February 27, 2012, 06:00:03 am
So am I. I still have no idea what you are trying to ask.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: QuakeIV on February 27, 2012, 11:10:34 am
Reminds me of one of those advanced spam bots.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: PeterX on February 27, 2012, 12:34:19 pm
So Jetzt mal auf Deutsch,langsam und zum Mitschreiben. Dieses ist kein Werbemüll. !!!!!
Ich habe nicht immer die Zeit,auf Gammatik zuachten order eine Ü-maschine zu benutzen!!!!!! :hopping:
1. Was ist mit Kappa3 in FS 2 passiert und was hat er gesehen?
2. Was ist,wenn ein UEF Geschwader das auch gesehen hat was Kappa 3 sah und und und?
3. Was für Geschichten sind es um den Nebel hinter Gamma Draconis? Gibt es wirklich die 6te Art?
Und wer wird wen am Ende die Wahrheit sagen?
Ihr könnt mich ...mal nachmachen. Peter
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: The E on February 27, 2012, 12:46:07 pm
1. What happened to Kappa 3 in the nebula, and what did he see?

Not exactly sure what that has to do with War in Heaven. Presumably, he saw shivans.

Quote
2. What if a UEF squadron saw the same thing?

No UEF squadron has so far been to the nebula.

Quote
3. Was für Geschichten sind es um den Nebel hinter Gamma Draconis?
I'm sorry, this sentence does not even begin to make sense in german. I think you're asing about stories about the Gamma Draconis nebula? Not sure.

Quote
Is there a 6th race?

Last I counted, we're only at 5, even when taking the Vishnans and Brahmans (who do exist, for certain values of "existing") into account.

Quote
Who will tell the truth in the end?

Truth lies in the eye of the beholder.

Quote
Ihr könnt mich ...mal nachmachen. Peter

(Which is a german pun on "do me", not really translateable)

Yeah, no. I'm very sorry, but if you are asking questions in a foreign language, one should always take the time to make sure one can express those same questions in a way that is understandable for the people you are asking. You can't tell me with a straight face that you really are soo excited about all this that you really can't check whether or not whatever you typed in was actually valid english before hitting the post button.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on February 27, 2012, 02:09:16 pm
What drove Kappa 3 into a panic was probably the sighting of at least some of the 80 Sath.
As far as stories behind the nebula goes, I think he's refering to the artifacts now commonly called "Shivan Comm Node", though in the campaign itself they are a pure mystery.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: QuakeIV on February 27, 2012, 02:10:07 pm
I still say advanced spambot.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Deadly in a Shadow on February 27, 2012, 02:14:06 pm
That makes me wondrous. Maybe I should write in german too. Would make sense.

EDIT: Advanced german spambot.

And how is a UEF squad supposed to even see the nebula? That's impossible.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Logistics on February 27, 2012, 03:22:26 pm
That makes me wondrous. Maybe I should write in german too. Would make sense.

EDIT: Advanced german spambot.

And how is a UEF squad supposed to even see the nebula? That's impossible.

Well, now I know what Byrne's secret project is. An advanced german spambot designed to rewrite the story.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: LordPomposity on February 27, 2012, 04:41:15 pm
So Jetzt mal auf Deutsch,langsam und zum Mitschreiben. Dieses ist kein Werbemüll. !!!!!
Ich habe nicht immer die Zeit,auf Gammatik zuachten order eine Ü-maschine zu benutzen!!!!!! :hopping:
1. Was ist mit Kappa3 in FS 2 passiert und was hat er gesehen?
2. Was ist,wenn ein UEF Geschwader das auch gesehen hat was Kappa 3 sah und und und?
3. Was für Geschichten sind es um den Nebel hinter Gamma Draconis? Gibt es wirklich die 6te Art?
Und wer wird wen am Ende die Wahrheit sagen?
Ihr könnt mich ...mal nachmachen. Peter
Wie sind Sie, meine Herren!! Alle Ihre Basis sind gehören zu uns. Sie sind auf dem Weg zur Vernichtung. Du hast keine Chance zu überleben machen Sie sich Zeit. Ha ha ha ha ....
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: crizza on February 27, 2012, 05:01:23 pm
God...after this sentence I perfectly understand how all you english speaking guys felt, when you read Peter Xs post^^
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: JCDNWarrior on February 27, 2012, 05:50:50 pm
So Jetzt mal auf Deutsch,langsam und zum Mitschreiben. Dieses ist kein Werbemüll. !!!!!
Ich habe nicht immer die Zeit,auf Gammatik zuachten order eine Ü-maschine zu benutzen!!!!!! :hopping:
1. Was ist mit Kappa3 in FS 2 passiert und was hat er gesehen?
2. Was ist,wenn ein UEF Geschwader das auch gesehen hat was Kappa 3 sah und und und?
3. Was für Geschichten sind es um den Nebel hinter Gamma Draconis? Gibt es wirklich die 6te Art?
Und wer wird wen am Ende die Wahrheit sagen?
Ihr könnt mich ...mal nachmachen. Peter
Wie sind Sie, meine Herren!! Alle Ihre Basis sind gehören zu uns. Sie sind auf dem Weg zur Vernichtung. Du hast keine Chance zu überleben machen Sie sich Zeit. Ha ha ha ha ....

I saw what you did there.. ;)

But yes, there's a reason we talk in the Universal Language, also known as English. We don't want a Tower of Babylon situation where we all start talking in different foreign languages. I very much don't think that guy's a spambot, that would be a really scary idea that one as such would show such interest in HLP and FS2.. 0.0

Back on topic, I hope we'll get more updates for WiH2 in due time, I greatly look forward to play it, and especially learn more of the story. For various more reasons aside from just enjoying the storyline. :)
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: NGTM-1R on February 27, 2012, 06:50:50 pm
Brahmans (who do exist, for certain values of "existing")

This statement intrigues me. I wish to learn more.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on February 27, 2012, 07:06:40 pm
You will!

team members please say nothing else
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: NGTM-1R on February 27, 2012, 07:48:41 pm
You will!

Somwhow, I expected this answer.

(Curse you, evil plot-hoarding gods.)
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Damage on February 27, 2012, 09:04:32 pm
I would think it to mean (in context with certain comments made by the Shivans during AoA) that the Brahmans are no longer in contact with the Vishnans or Shivans, either because they are deliberately not communicating, or were wiped out somehow, or they left this region of space long ago never to return.  (I go for the last one.)  Having finished that thought I was struck by another one--what if the Brahmans still survive in some sort of devolved form...?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on February 27, 2012, 09:16:26 pm
Well I do want to say that the idea of an ancient creator race which lefts its relics behind (Ancients/Protheans/Forerunners/whatever the ****) is possibly a little played out so don't expect it to be played completely straight
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: EternalRuin on February 27, 2012, 10:06:01 pm
Well I do want to say that the idea of an ancient creator race which lefts its relics behind (Ancients/Protheans/Forerunners/whatever the ****) is possibly a little played out so don't expect it to be played completely straight

Well... that sounds promising =D. To be honest, I'd always worried that BP would be harmed by the whole ancient creator race cliche , but its nice to know that you guys are specifically avoiding that. Considering y'all's general plot-writing ability, I'm sure you'll be able to pull it off
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: redsniper on February 28, 2012, 03:09:37 pm
Brahmans (who do exist, for certain values of "existing")

This statement intrigues me. I wish to learn more.

They exist in the memories of the Vishnans and Shivans.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on February 29, 2012, 05:11:05 am
I always though the Brahmans were called the creators, because they created alliances and a galactic community, not because they were playing god and seeded races all over the galaxy, creating live and such.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on February 29, 2012, 05:24:37 am
We have no indication whatsoever as to why the Brahmans were called Creators. The "Alliance" and "galactic community" thing was the reason the Vishnans compared us to the Brahmans in Universal Truth, but it doesn't necessarily implies Brahmans did that in the first place.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: -Norbert- on February 29, 2012, 05:52:40 am
Funny... first you say there is no indicaion for my theory, followed up by an indication for my theory.
Sure it is a weak and unreliable indication, due to the source and the way it was delivered to us Humans (biased, probably done to manipulate us, ect... we discussed the credibility of the Vishnans already plenty of times in different places), but it's still more solid than what we have for any other meaning for the Brahmans title.

I agree that we have no way of knowing wether it's true at the moment, but I still think it would make a lot of sense, even more so considering how overused the ancient creator race theme already is, coupled with the BP teams tendency to surprise us.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Colonol Dekker on March 07, 2012, 10:44:48 am
Can haz moar info on any new Zod caps featured?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on March 07, 2012, 10:55:42 am
Not at this time, sorry.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Crybertrance on March 07, 2012, 11:52:07 am
Can haz moar info on any new Vishnan/Shivan caps featured?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on March 07, 2012, 11:54:45 am
nope.tiff
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on March 07, 2012, 12:12:01 pm
Weren't you at some point trying very hard to replace Vishnan ships with something less Ancient-ish ? What happened to that idea ?
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Colonol Dekker on March 07, 2012, 12:13:14 pm
Not at this time, sorry.

No need for apologies. I appreciate your caution, what with my great great great great grandson being Bosch and everything >:D


Still looking forward as always.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: General Battuta on March 07, 2012, 12:14:21 pm
Weren't you at some point trying very hard to replace Vishnan ships with something less Ancient-ish ? What happened to that idea ?

No, that was never a realistic internal imperative - we have no idea what the Ancients look like in BP so maybe their ships are the ones that look different.

If we ever do Ancients in the BPverse they're going to be a bit more alien than those that have appeared in other fan campaigns.
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: logomancer on March 19, 2012, 08:56:08 pm
OK, so I just got here, and all I have to say is...wow. Awesome work, as always. :-)
Title: Re: War in Heaven R2 Preview (many pictures, many WORDS)
Post by: Luis Dias on March 21, 2012, 03:06:46 pm
The Shivans waltz into Capella, a colony of exiled Terrans, and blow up a star. How does Petrarch interpret this? "Oh, they must have been trying to get home, like we are."

To me, both these assumptions are flawed. The Ancients try to figure out the Shivans by thinking like Ancients. The exiled terrans try to figure out the Shivans by thinking like Terrans. This is like trying to puzzle out why the sky 'decided' to rain one day and remain clear the next.

I once sketched a campaign where the shivans' motives were to make a new wormhole into sol node, given the other was nuked by the GTVA. It would take them 40 years, but time wasn't really an issue for the old shivans. That would mean that in such a campaign, Earthlings would have been given 70+ years of peace, only to find themselves frakked by the incoming shivan armada of 50+ Sathanas.

It wasn't a good story though, the sketch was mainly interesting for the mission designs, which were to be ...ahhh... revolutionary. Of course, a revolution that never went out of my bed.