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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: IceFire on May 17, 2011, 10:13:55 pm

Title: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: IceFire on May 17, 2011, 10:13:55 pm
Thinking about making my first purchase from the iTunes store. I've read that it's DRM free... but is it REALLY drm free or something else goes on instead? Also does anyone know if it's 128kpbs or 168kbps?
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: blowfish on May 17, 2011, 10:22:48 pm
Yes.  They managed to get it all DRM free recently.  And it's 256kbps AAC.
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: Mustang19 on May 17, 2011, 10:44:25 pm
DRM was the greatest thing to happen to the software industry since sliced wafers.  It stirred publishers from their sclerotic slumber into an effort to advance the science of cryptography, as incompetent as their efforts were. I'll be sad to see it go.
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: Unknown Target on May 17, 2011, 11:23:08 pm
I prefer Amazon, since you're not tied to that awful program, but yes, both are DRM free thankfully.
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: Nuke on May 17, 2011, 11:36:50 pm
if they let me pick the format, and my bitrate, and offer tracks from obscure bands you've never heard of, that might be enough to make me stop pirating.
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: BloodEagle on May 17, 2011, 11:42:20 pm
I'd recommend against paying for anything with an audio quality of less than 320kbps at 44.1kHz per dual channel, which I consider to be the lowest acceptable quality level.
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: Enigmatic Entity on May 17, 2011, 11:42:50 pm
Artists like Lady GG and Rhianna don't really lose much from pirating (i.e. they have $$ no matter what), but lesser known artists, maybe. Then there are those so unknown that they aren't even pirated...
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: Nuke on May 17, 2011, 11:53:34 pm
most of the bands i like require ordering a vinyl lp from a foreign country. if they take paypal, yay! but other than that, **** it im torrenting.
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: Dark Hunter on May 18, 2011, 12:48:31 am
I only buy from iTunes if I have no other choice.

The less "no copying, only iTunes/iPod can play" bull**** I have to put up with, the better.

Then again, iTunes usually doesn't have what I'm looking for anyway, so...
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: Pred the Penguin on May 18, 2011, 04:06:54 am
I like having CDs...
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: Klaustrophobia on May 18, 2011, 05:18:08 am
i don't buy digital downloads ever.  physical CD only, lossless rip.  if i'm only going to get 1/10th the quality from a download, i expect to only pay 1/10th the price.  and that just doesn't happen.
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: jr2 on May 18, 2011, 09:03:38 am
So, when will M$ 'steal' the idea from Apple and go DRM-free with Zune Marketplace?  ;7
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: MP-Ryan on May 18, 2011, 09:48:51 am
I'd recommend against paying for anything with an audio quality of less than 320kbps at 44.1kHz per dual channel, which I consider to be the lowest acceptable quality level.

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/audiophiles.png)

 :p
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: IceFire on May 18, 2011, 04:16:00 pm
I'd buy from Amazon but I'm Canadian and Amazon.ca is poor and inadquate compared to the cool stuff you get in the US. I love ordering from Amazon.ca but they don't have all the stuff you guys have. No online music sales at all I believe. I do order physical CD's but sometimes they just aren't available anywhere... like a couple of Finnish rock bands I like to listen to.
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: Nuke on May 18, 2011, 06:30:20 pm
I'd recommend against paying for anything with an audio quality of less than 320kbps at 44.1kHz per dual channel, which I consider to be the lowest acceptable quality level.

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/audiophiles.png)

 :p

yea, im not really getting what audiophiles go on and on about. i already ****ed up my hearing with 2 decades of metal, so i dont think im capable of discerning every little nuance of the music. also i never did enjoy over-engineered music either. so these days i just go with a pair of large stereo speakers for my computer speakers, im using some unidentified stereo from the 80s (with a turn table) with a fried opamp that makes one of the speakers go out if i try to put the volume over 1/3 the max. thats ok because at 1/3 volume the whole house rattles. then i just run a minijack to rca adapter cable between the sound card and the aux ports. it has the added bonus of letting me tape anything i like on youtube without having to fire up audacity, **** with audio settings, sacrifice a small animal and hope the windows gods let me record the stereo mix. even if all the tapes im taping to are tapes i found on the ground with tape over the tapes no tape over hole. analog <3.

i did hook the turn table's phono plugs into my soundcard instead of to the stereo, so that i can rip ancient hank williams records to mp3, works quite well.
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: IceFire on May 18, 2011, 07:16:09 pm
For the sound system that I have nothing over 256kbps will make any difference. They are good speakers but unless I spend a thousand dollars a speaker like my dad did for his home theater system (and I may one day) it isn't going to matter much. I am a bit of an audiophile and I do appreciate high quality music where I can hear everything clearly and all of the frequencies are well balanced... but there is a point of diminishing returns and it starts around 196kbps for compressed audio. I can sometimes (albeit rarely) tell the difference up to 256kbps but I honestly don't think most people can tell the difference above that.

I've seen studies done with test subjects that didn't know which audio file was which played on a top end system. The error rate was essentially them flipping a coin on what the levels were.
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: Nuke on May 18, 2011, 08:43:51 pm
for me it has to be below 128kbps before i notice any difference. i usually rip tracks at 192kbps or higher though. of course i seldom rip tracks. i usually acquire tracks in any bit rate i can get, considering their rarity.
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: Mongoose on May 18, 2011, 09:38:57 pm
I can still hear some compression at 192 kbps, but once you go above 256, it becomes far less noticeable.  That being said, I have a crap-load of music in FLAC, just for the e-peen. :p
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: IceFire on May 18, 2011, 10:29:32 pm
Well my purchase was successful and I was able to copy my music to my backup hard drive and everything still works so no DRM to speak of. Good! Process was pretty painless anyways as I already had an account setup for my iPod to sync some album information. I'm not a huge fan of iTunes... I curse it's name often... but this was encouragingly easy.
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: Thaeris on May 18, 2011, 11:15:49 pm
I like having CDs...

I fully concur, and all the music I really care about ends up in a physical format on my shelf.

I don't mind iTunes, and in fact I kind of like the software. The software to truly be loathed and despised is Windows Media Center.
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: LHN91 on May 18, 2011, 11:53:47 pm
I can still hear some compression at 192 kbps, but once you go above 256, it becomes far less noticeable.  That being said, I have a crap-load of music in FLAC, just for the e-peen. :p

Have to admit, my personal experience is similar. Most things sound fine at 192, but I have a couple bands that mp3 in general can't compress worth crap below 256 (stuff with lots of cymbals are the worst culprits). And for that stuff I keep a FLAC copy XD. e-peen ftw!  (don't shoot me, I also find the FLAC leaves the soundstage more intact then mp3)
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: Pred the Penguin on May 19, 2011, 05:55:09 am
I like having CDs...

I fully concur, and all the music I really care about ends up in a physical format on my shelf.

I don't mind iTunes, and in fact I kind of like the software. The software to truly be loathed and despised is Windows Media Center.
Same here, I avoid Windows Media Center by simply by using Windows only for games. And because I don't really buy that much music (I have very specific tastes) I have loads of shelf space available.
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: Klaustrophobia on May 19, 2011, 03:45:22 pm
i don't know about windows media CENTER, but i use WM player (10) exclusively.  the only thing i wish it could do is manually add or change album art.  other than that, i find it superior to itunes in every way.
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: IceFire on May 19, 2011, 04:21:23 pm
i don't know about windows media CENTER, but i use WM player (10) exclusively.  the only thing i wish it could do is manually add or change album art.  other than that, i find it superior to itunes in every way.
Copy and paste. It's super easy to change album art in WMP... 11 for sure but 10 as well I think.
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: jr2 on May 19, 2011, 04:52:17 pm
Use foobar2000 as your media player...

And, anyone else here use VBR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_bitrate)?

EDIT:
Quote
Advantages and disadvantages of VBR

The advantages of VBR are that it produces a better quality-to-space ratio compared to a CBR file of the same data. The bits available are used more flexibly to encode the sound or video data more accurately, with fewer bits used in less demanding passages and more bits used in difficult-to-encode passages.[2][4]
The disadvantages are that it may take more time to encode, as the process is more complex, and that some hardware might not be compatible with VBR files.[2] VBR may also pose problems when streaming over a dial-up or broadband Internet connection, because the instantaneous bitrate, if unconstrained, may rise above the maximum data transfer speed of the web connection. These problems can be avoided by specifying a maximum instantaneous bitrate during the encoding process.
Also, encryption of VBR-encoded speech (or other signals including video) gives only limited privacy, as the patterns of variation of the bit rate may reveal what language is being spoken.[5]
In the past, many hardware and software players could not decode variable bitrate files properly, partly because the various VBR encoders used were not well developed.[citation needed] This resulted in common use of CBR over VBR for the sake of compatibility. As of December 2006, devices that support only CBR encoded files are largely obsolete, as the vast majority of modern portable music devices and software support VBR encoded files.[citation needed]
Support for VBR in AAC and MP3 files is found in most modern digital audio players, including those released by Microsoft, Apple Inc., Creative Technology, and SanDisk. Early VBR algorithms occasionally introduced audible artifacts when encoding monotone or minimal tones (for example audiobooks and acoustic music). These artifacts often mimicked a "digital chirp" during the quiet portions of the song or when there was only speaking. As VBR encoding algorithms have improved, these problems have been resolved in subsequent generations of the VBR standard.[citation needed]
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: Klaustrophobia on May 19, 2011, 08:57:00 pm
i don't know about windows media CENTER, but i use WM player (10) exclusively.  the only thing i wish it could do is manually add or change album art.  other than that, i find it superior to itunes in every way.
Copy and paste. It's super easy to change album art in WMP... 11 for sure but 10 as well I think.

to where?  there is no album art field within WMP.  i tried changing the album art hidden files in the rip folder but that didn't seem to take.  not even deleting the folder and re-ripping worked.  not a big deal though, it's a pretty rare thing WMP doesn't have the album art when ripping a CD. 
Title: Re: iTunes Store.... DRM?
Post by: perihelion on May 19, 2011, 09:57:15 pm
And, anyone else here use VBR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_bitrate)?
I use .OGG Vorbis for everything I encode myself, so since Vorbis always uses VBR, [checks E-PEEN size], that would be a YES.

All dick-waving aside, there was a time when I was very pro-OGG and anti-MP3 because of how swishy MP3s sounded on high frequency percussion, but that was back when a 2.0 GB hard drive was considered extravagant.  I find that at ~192 kbps (LAME-VBR) I can only occasionally tell the difference between the two formats.  So, with enough memory space, it becomes a bit academic.

But I still use .OGG whenever I get the chance.  And foobar2000, for that matter.  Must be my knee-jerk response to buck whatever I perceive to be "normal."

Well, that, and I like native Replay Gain support.  Having to change the volume all the time had gotten annoying.