Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: General Battuta on May 19, 2011, 09:53:29 am
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Redsniper upgraded the Hard Light Facebook group and a bunch of old/out of the loop FreeSpace players are now rumbling about, trying to figure out what's happened. They're old school! They still think Derelict is undisputed king of the hill! They probably think that flying a capship isn't fun and that 3.6.10 wasn't ****ty!
But seriously folks, there are some pretty awesome people over there (I recognized mikhail) and we should, uh, make them welcome if they decide to check back in and see what they've missed.
By 'make them welcome' I mean 'absorb them.'
(http://www.boingboing.net/1282669094909.jpeg)
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I like that picture...
and my inbox is loaded with quite a few Hard Light messages now, quite a nice change actually.
:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
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These guys didn't know there was a 3.6.10, or probably a 3.6.9 for that matter.
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I hate cats.
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I wanna see the old people.
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I was the one who said Derelict is still the best user made campaign ever. It's true. The bad rep about mission design is wildly overblown. There were only a few clunkers (An Advancement in Learning) and there were plenty of brilliant missions (A Paper Wall). Also, the style was truer to FS than any other fan campaign (even had the clever mission names that would make Volition proud). And people have *****ed about how the missions served the story and not vise versa - THAT WAS WHY IT WAS SO GOOD. It was actually immersive! Like it or not, FS' success revolves around atmosphere. Oh, and it had Mackie. No other campaign can claim him :p
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I was the one who said Derelict is still the best user made campaign ever. It's true. What's your point?
'Best user made campaign' ever is a matter of opinion, and while it may be your favorite user made campaign ever, you'd no longer get a broad consensus on that opinion like you could back in the day.
ed: really it's because back in the day Derelict was basically the only campaign that came near Volition's quality, but today we have so much work that has either matched or wildly exceeded Volition's design that people say 'wow, look at all this amazing stuff, it is all great' rather than 'THAT ONE IS BEST'.
ed2: that thing you edited in makes it sound like you haven't played many recent campaigns
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Has that consensus eroded because there are better campaigns now or because nobody's played it in years? You wanna call me an old fogey, fine. I think it's a bad thing that the pendulum has swung too far toward design over storytelling now. Derelict had its frustrating moments, but I always looked forward to the next mission. Even with later masterpieces like Homesick that wasn't always the case.
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Umm.
Have you played BP: War in Heaven? Or Silent Threat: Reborn? Or Vassago's Dirge? Because those are very heavily story-driven, and they definitely are all contenders for "Best campaign".
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Weren't as good as Derelict. I can have that opinion if I damn well want to.
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Reread my last post before continuing, I edited stuff in.
okay
The consensus has eroded because of exactly the opposite of what you said. The pendulum has swung far, far away from design and towards storytelling. All major campaigns today (Blue Planet, Wings of Dawn, Vassago's Dirge) do what Derelict did: focus on immersion and storytelling foremost.
Now you can dislike all these campaigns, that's perfectly fine, but what you're saying just makes it sound like you haven't played recent stuff or paid much attention to the community's feelings. And it's absolutely not due to a dropoff in people playing Derelict, in fact it's probably the opposite.
For example, today I ran into this exchange on another forum:
The_White_Crane posted:
I just have to recommend Derelict.
A complete (very long) user made semi-sequel campaign, of a quality largely comparable to the original game. It also includes full voice acting which is (shock horror) actually not completely ****!
Some voice acting may be a little ****.
Does, uh, Derelict get better after the first set of missions? Because so far, Blue Planet has blown it away in every category, from quality of voice acting to mission pacing to the right balance of difficulty
Yes but you're also pretty much comparing one of the first big campaigns to be made (and then updated to SCP) to Blue Planet which, really, I would suggest is one of the best FS2 campaigns made. I also think Derelict was the first big attempt at the HLP forums to voice act an entire campaign. There's literally ten years of innovation and improvement between the two of them.
Now it's unfortunate that exchange was about BP, since I'm not here to claim that the campaign I'm involved in is 'the best'.
Rather I'm arguing that there is no longer a best campaign, that there are instead a vast number of high-quality campaigns which can satisfy just about every desire, whether it's traditional FreeSpace-style gameplay and storytelling or crazy Star Control meets anime action fests with quicktime events. You can love Vassago's Dirge and hate Blue Planet, or you can love them both, but the best litmus test we have - opinions of new players - simply suggests that Derelict is no longer the sacred cow it once was.
Weren't as good as Derelict. I can have that opinion if I damn well want to.
See, you're no longer making the same argument, now you're just saying 'I like Derelict best'. Which is fine, go ahead, though I suspect you haven't actually played much since.
Derelict has been part of the recommended campaign bundle for first-time players for years. Recently I dropped it, because new players weren't as excited about it as the other campaigns in the bundle. I personally think it's wonderful, but it doesn't seem to be connecting with people the way some of the newer work has.
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Uh uhm Derelict was epic but Blue Planet...was even more epic.
Derelict has a really nice story full of unexpected events *cough*MT*cough* but Blue Planet does nearly everything BETTER.
Despite that, Derelict and Blue Planet are both great campaigns, you want to hug such masterpieces.(My opinion)
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I just don't think there's a point in declaring high-quality campaigns better than each other.
We should be grateful and overjoyed we get to play Derelict and Blue Planet. Declaring one of them king and looking down snootily on others is discouraging to everyone working on new campaigns and divisive to the community as a whole.
I mean, what do you get out of declaring a legendary campaign more legendary? How does it help anyone? If you want the community to prosper, to foster talent which has a chance of producing something even better than [your favorite], it's cooperation, not competition, that'll make that happen.
Tearing people who aren't your favorite down just discourages them. Lending kind words even to campaigns you didn't enjoy helps improve them and encourage their makers. And this community runs on the enthusiasm of the creatives involved in it.
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Derelict was never a sacred cow. Plenty of people bashed it back in the olden days.
Look, I admit that nostalgia has colored my perceptions (though I have played Derelict fairly recently and I think it holds up just fine), and I admit that Derelict doesn't resonate with the younger crowd as it once did (though that may just be a matter of taste). But you can still make a strong case for it still being the best, and my original facebook comment was that I never though that would be possible after MT and BWO pushed it to the wayside. Which is really depressing.
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I just don't think there's a point in declaring high-quality campaigns better than each other.
We should be grateful and overjoyed we get to play Derelict and Blue Planet. Declaring one of them king and looking down snootily on others is discouraging to everyone working on new campaigns and divisive to the community as a whole.
I mean, what do you get out of declaring a legendary campaign more legendary? How does it help anyone? If you want the community to prosper, to foster talent which has a chance of producing something even better than [your favorite], it's cooperation, not competition, that'll make that happen.
Tearing people who aren't your favorite down just discourages them. Lending kind words even to campaigns you didn't enjoy helps improve them and encourage their makers. And this community runs on the enthusiasm of the creatives involved in it.
People are smart. They'll make their own opinions regardless of what a few forumites say in an arguement. If anything, putting way too much effort and thought into silly arguments are what made this forum fun to be a part of in the first place. Being all harmonious and nice all the time doesn't make a community more productive, just more boring.
God, I can't believe I'm STILL posting here. It's been nine years! Feels longer than that!
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Derelict was never a sacred cow. Plenty of people bashed it back in the olden days.
Look, I admit that nostalgia has colored my perceptions (though I have played Derelict fairly recently and I think it holds up just fine), and I admit that Derelict doesn't resonate with the younger crowd as it once did (though that may just be a matter of taste). But you can still make a strong case for it still being the best, and my original facebook comment was that I never though that would be possible after MT and BWO pushed it to the wayside. Which is really depressing.
MT and BWO never came out. How can they have pushed anything to the wayside?
Actually, maybe you're on to something there. If you're making an argument that HLP used to be much more competitive - bashing Derelict, pushing other campaigns to the wayside - I can agree.
I think that the enormous explosion of creativity we've seen in recent years has been fueled almost entirely by collaboration. Maybe that's something the older mods - Inferno, MT, BWO - never understood. Even on their internal forums they still talk about exclusive assets, holding on to things, beating people.
Meanwhile, the dev teams of today's most popular campaigns release their assets early so everyone can play with them. They hang out on the same IRC channels, share SEXPs and tips, and put their new features directly into the engine instead of maintaining their own development branches. It's a different style. And I think you can see the difference in the forumgoers, too - the Blue Planet and Wings of Dawn boards share a lot of the same fans even though the campaigns are very different.
In a sense these new campaigns owe much more to Derelict than to campaigns like MT or BWO. Not just because of what Derelict was, but because of how it was made: it used public assets, focused on telling its story rather than building a huge new fleetpack, and sold itself through charm and storytelling skill rather than size and scale. That's the model most successful campaigns have followed.
People are smart. They'll make their own opinions regardless of what a few forumites say in an arguement. If anything, putting way too much effort and thought into silly arguments are what made this forum fun to be a part of in the first place. Being all harmonious and nice all the time doesn't make a community more productive, just more boring.
Arguments are fine, but you seem to be ignoring the key part of the chain, the people who make the arguments possible in the first place - the campaign creators.
Do you think Spoon would be as insanely productive as he is if he had to deal with posts constantly bashing his work? What kind of creative would want to work in that atmosphere?
God, I can't believe I'm STILL posting here. It's been nine years! Feels longer than that!
I was active back on the VBB. I'm not saying that to wave my dick around, but to explain that my perspective isn't born of being new.
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They never came out. My point exactly. Hence the depressing thing.
I was talking much more about social than productive competition. You can disagree loudly with someone and still be willing to help each other. Not all of the arguments in the "glory" days of HLP were in the style of an0n. I think open releases have been fantastic, no argument there. In fact, it drives me crazy that it wasn't done years ago.
Your points are all good, I'm just saying that the community (which are mostly non-modders) seems to have suffered a bit as a result of the Pax Kalfiretha. Strong, independent personalities may be a headache if you need cooperation, but they also made things more interesting.
And I get the last comment. I was just making a general statement. Never thought HLP would still be going by now, much less I'd still be posting in it.
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Personally, I'll take a quietly awesome forum over an argumentative burning monument to the GIF theory (http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/215499488_8pSZr-L-2.jpg).
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How can you argue over that one? That equation is like 2+2=4. It's just true, man.
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They never came out. My point exactly. Hence the depressing thing.
Having gotten an inside look at some of these projects I frankly think what we've got today is just as good, and better in some respects.
Though I still hope BWO will come out and be awesome, it was developed in an era where much of what we can do today - make tactical jumps, fly capships, customize the HUD on a per-mission basis - just wasn't possible.
There's always room for good, solid, traditional missions. If a project offers those I'm there in a heartbeat. But we've also explored a lot of new ground.
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Wasn't Mackie voiced by Ransom?
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Wasn't Mackie voiced by Ransom?
Yes. He went on to do excellent voice work on somewhat different characters in many other mods, including his own.
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Derelict was cool. First user-made campaign I played. (I think)
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Derelict still has something of a cult behind it because for many of us, including myself, it was one of the first use-made campaigns we played and for its time it truely was better than anything else available. But times changed and the community evolved, and so it was inevitable that Derelict, which was and still is to an extent the gold standard by which everything new would be measured against, would be surpassed, and not just in mission design but also dialogue and storytelling.
But no matter what else comes out, Derelict is the timeless classic that will always have that special place in our Freespace directories.
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i like wings of dawn.
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i like wings of dawn.
ur not alone
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Wings of Dawn is indeed awesome.
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Actually there is no "BEST/MOST EPIC CAMPAIGN EVAR!" - It is a peer-depened category ...
Derelict is good if you apply the FS2 main campaign as baseline;
BP: AoA had already Derelict as baseline to be compared to that is why it can be considered a better campaign;
BP: WiH (release 1) has evene to beat a baseline set by AoA...
and that is why you actually can't create an objective criteria to compare Derelict and BP: AoA:
To start that comparision you need a baseline, and since BP: AoA did come to exist in an evoirment in which Derelict arleady existed, all criteria must at least be constructed with Derelict their baseline ...
EDIT: that fact that I'm influnced by great campaigns emerging all around me is part of reason I just don't get another one done... I just can't stop raising my minimum requirements (causing things like this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=76095.0) to get scrapped)...
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How did this happen? I mean hell, I just clicked some upgrade button because FB was saying old-format groups would be pruned. I guess it must have notified EVERYONE who was ever a member. :wtf:
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The clear lesson here is that SGWPII is the Greatest Campaign Ever.
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Yeah I don't get why there has to be a flame war here, both Derelict and BP are excellent mods.
I personally had a few reservations about the background theme to BP, but I also had a few reservations about a couple of things in Derelict. Both create excellent atmosphere, both have excellent stories. As a general newbie on the forums (i played the game since it was released, only started mods when i joined up here a few months ago) I haven't had widespread playing on all the mods... but I've yet to find any that were discernibly ****tier then any other, and I've certainly enjoyed all the ones i've played immensely.
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You've never played SGWP2 then.
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Can we stop this bickering and instead find screenshots and videos to show-off to those old-timers who think 3.6.9 or retail was the best thing since sliced bread?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_bWDo5mlDw
Intro cutscene to War in Heaven.
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Show them some of the new high-poly models that have been made, such as the Colossus, Boanerges, Artemis, Medusa, Typhon, Hatshepsut, etc
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Behold...
THE SATHANAS (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=74203.0)
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Oy! I upgraded it.
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No! I upgraded it!
stop plagiamarizing my upgradiamarizing
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I turned it from hidden to public yesterday :/
Did we install the 48k ram chip without me knowing?
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Competition can be a great motivator..you might say it drives the human race.
Cooperation can too. Both mechanism push us forward.
Now personally, I prefer cooperation (which should be clear to anyone, given that I hate the "exclusive asset" thing), but one cannot deny that a healthy does of rivalry can produce quite a drive.
But both of those will fail if they run across their hated enemies - lack of enthusiasm and irritation. These things killed mods before and will kill again.
Look at me, I'm a prefect example. FOW3 ain't going anywhere now. UV mapping chapships is a chore to me, and that and pretty much working alone irritates me...and since no one seems to care either way, my entusiasm isn't really all that pumped up. It's easier and simple to move to another project, to another game, than to finish it.
So the best way to help campaigns/mods is to show interest and encourage the makers (or help them directly)...because it takes a helluva lot of work (time) and dedication to make one, and life seems to suck those out of you.
:ick:
Life is friggin killing me.
So many thing to do, so little time, and spending 24 hours in front of the PC is a death sentance to my health.
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3.1.what?
Man, last time I looked in here, Derelict was the only one of the campaigns listed that was actually finished! ;)
Seriously, it's been ... goodness, at least three years since I last stuck my head in, and the last time before that it was probably three years before THAT. Where's Sandwhich and Steak and that crazy Frenchman who I always argued with (was it Venom?) and Thunderwhathisfireth or Shrike? Do they yet live? I know Goober and Mr. Vega do. What about Lt. Narol?
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Sandwhich still around, not sure about the others
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I haven't played much of BP:WiH yet (finished BP:AoA though), but sad to say, it's kinda lag in the first mission. I hope the lag somehow stops in the succeeding ones, otherwise it's going to be a bit of a problem.
Arguably, it's not the lightest mission of the campaign, but it's far to be the heaviest. You'd be better at lowering the settings and resolution as much as you can if you want descent fps, or wait for optimized UEF capships to be finished and released. If the fps are already too low for you in a cutscene, it's not gonna feel better in actual gameplay.
Okay, *expects wave of flames*, but I somehow find it a minor setback to play as a female.
Deal with it :cool:
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Can we stop this bickering and instead find screenshots and videos to show-off to those old-timers who think 3.6.9 or retail was the best thing since sliced bread?
I'd suggest This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhAR8rWPluQ). May not show a damned thing about the quality of campaign releases from the last few years, but it definitely does show off the current visual quality of FS2_open+MediaVPs :D
[Edit] Link fixed. Something wonky happened apparently.
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Can we stop this bickering and instead find screenshots and videos to show-off to those old-timers who think 3.6.9 or retail was the best thing since sliced bread?
I'd suggest This (http://This). May not show a damned thing about the quality of campaign releases from the last few years, but it definitely does show off the current visual quality of FS2_open+MediaVPs :D
Is the URL supposed to be http://this/ ?
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Can't
touch click this. *Insert annoying rap song here*
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Hey, Hammertime is pretty good for a Rap song, it's just about everything else that came after it that blows ass.
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I think that the enormous explosion of creativity we've seen in recent years has been fueled almost entirely by collaboration. Maybe that's something the older mods - Inferno, MT, BWO - never understood. Even on their internal forums they still talk about exclusive assets, holding on to things, beating people.
Because you haven't (and probably never had) access to the MT and BWO private boards, do you mind telling me what made you put Inferno in that list? Beating...? Do you realize that you're spreading misinformation? First of all, you need to get the difference between pure campaigns and pure mods. Blue Planet started as a pure campaign, using assets someone else made and achieving excellent results at it. Inferno started as a mod, with tons of completely new stuff, and a campaign provided with it. The reason why I think INFR1 is still great has nothing to do with its released Chapter 1 campaign: after all these years, I still look at the models and effects (the fact that they're outclassed now is not relevant) and think "Wow". When a project tends more to the "mod" part, the approach on release policies changes completely and you get stuff like new ships being kept private until release, because it's important to claim full ownership over new ships if you know 90% of the success of mod X depends on them. If you tend to the "campaign" part, exclusive stuff is of secondary importance because the core of the project is - and will be - the campaign. I noticed this difference in the years I spent here; apparently, everything depends on the project leaders' goal, which may vary.
Addressing the other issue... so, new campaigns significantly outweight older ones under many points of view? But of course! Did the creators of Derelict have 3.6.9 or newer? Did they have the marvellous, content-rich Media VPs we have now? Was FreeSpace modding as much as professional as it is now? If they wanted something new, were they able to ask a coder to add feature X or create a script ad hoc? Did they have tons of new SEXPs to play around with? Did they have our same computers? No. I believe some more modesty would be appropriate here - new campaigns are awesome because the SCP and FSU made a lot of things possible, not because new campaign designers are smarter and/or more skilled than the older ones. I'd like to clarify this because many community members think the halo of sacred awesomeness recent campaigns have is imputable only to said campaigns' respective FREDders.
I still think that if Blaise Russel had the opportunities we have now, we'd still be talking about S:AH, Homesick, FEP (this one was SCP compatible, but still not meant to rely heavily on new features) and other campaigns. Same thing when it comes to Derelict and its creators. One more thing: the fact that BP is successful doesn't mean that pretty much everyone here wants a talking player character and, more in general, a pure character-based environment. I see people making major assumptions on "changes to the community's tastes" without actual evidence.
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Is the URL supposed to be http://this/ ?
Nope. Fixed the link, should be working now. No idea what happened there.
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3.1.what?
Man, last time I looked in here, Derelict was the only one of the campaigns listed that was actually finished! ;)
Seriously, it's been ... goodness, at least three years since I last stuck my head in, and the last time before that it was probably three years before THAT. Where's Sandwhich and Steak and that crazy Frenchman who I always argued with (was it Venom?) and Thunderwhathisfireth or Shrike? Do they yet live? I know Goober and Mr. Vega do. What about Lt. Narol?
Nice to see you around Mikhael. It's been a while. :D
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Hey, Hammertime is pretty good for a Rap song, it's just about everything else that came after it that blows ass.
No Hammertime is not a good rap song it's a viral song like stuff by Rick Astley, Justin Bieber or Rebecca Black. Though Rick Astley is actually quite good. Points to Rick Astley for being cool. I shouldn't have put him on that list.
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All approaches to game narrative have their strengths and weaknesses. The only true failing would be homogeneity.
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It doesn't have to be the main character that's uniquely *insert gender here*, we still have the Head.Ani's.
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Marcov, getting back to the original statement, what difference does it make to you that your character is a female? Do you think that it would have an effect on her performance in combat?
I usually savor Alpha 1 being sort of the "Badass" "invincible" guy, not the Action girl.
Also yeah, partially like what Droid803 said: kinda hard to relate to the character.
yeah um sorry but "action girl" is by definition "badass" and if you want to be invincible just type www.freespace2.com :7
anyway, you have your preference (as do a lot of dudes) to play as dudes in games and the BP team has ignored it so I don't see much else to discuss.
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Also, the style was truer to FS than any other fan campaign (even had the clever mission names that would make Volition proud).
I agree. For the longest time, I had a memory of one of the Derelict briefings (the one that quotes the Bible about the Number of the Beast) and I thought it was actually from the retail campaign. When I replayed the main FS2 campaign and didn't see it, I was confused, then I replayed Derelict and figured it out.
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I believe my point has proven itself by now.....
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I believe my point has proven itself by now.....
And what point was that exactly? I don't seem to recall you ever expressing one.
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Derelict (original derelict with the static credit mission using training messages as the cypher does a flyby) will always remain an innovative groundbreaking LEAP FORWARD in my opinion. Also Sync and Transcend.
All this stemmed from a facebook related topic.
I am content :cool:
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What the **** happened to my reply to Mobius?
One more thing: the fact that BP is successful doesn't mean that pretty much everyone here wants a talking player character and, more in general, a pure character-based environment. I see people making major assumptions on "changes to the community's tastes" without actual evidence.
I've said over and over again that people don't want this, that there should always be a variety of narrative approaches, not a single one. In fact I've told you several times over the years that the great strength of the community is diversity and heterogeneity, rather than everyone doing something one way. (This is the same position Volition's always taken, incidentally). I don't know what you're talking about.
No. I believe some more modesty would be appropriate here - new campaigns are awesome because the SCP and FSU made a lot of things possible, not because new campaign designers are smarter and/or more skilled than the older ones. I'd like to clarify this because many community members think the halo of sacred awesomeness recent campaigns have is imputable only to said campaigns' respective FREDders.
And again, here, I don't think I've seen anyone claim this. I don't know what you're trying to say or who you're trying to argue against.
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What the **** happened to my reply to Mobius?
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=76227.msg1512753#msg1512753
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They still think Derelict is undisputed king of the hill!
But they are right!
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They still think Derelict is undisputed king of the hill!
But they are right!
No they aren't, we just discussed this for the past 4 pages. There is no indisputed king of the hill and that's a good thing. There is no way you could make a case that everyone gets anywhere near agreeing on one best campaign.
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They still think Derelict is undisputed king of the hill!
But they are right!
No they aren't, we just discussed this for the past 4 pages. There is no indisputed king of the hill and that's a good thing. There is no way you could make a case that everyone gets anywhere near agreeing on one best campaign.
But, I think they are right... :P It was just me vouching my personal opinion, stating it as a fact as a non-serious way of doing so.
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You don't even play FreeSpace, so isn't that kind of...rude to people like ReeNoIP and Spoon and Axem who've done great work in recent years?
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You don't even play FreeSpace, so isn't that kind of...rude to people like ReeNoIP and Spoon and Axem who've done great work in recent years?
But I do play Freespace. Me liking Derelict as the most awesome campaign (I have ever played) has nothing to do with the lack of awesomeness of Axem, or Spoon, or ReeNoIP, but more about Russel.
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I've said over and over again that people don't want this, that there should always be a variety of narrative approaches, not a single one. In fact I've told you several times over the years that the great strength of the community is diversity and heterogeneity, rather than everyone doing something one way. (This is the same position Volition's always taken, incidentally). I don't know what you're talking about.
I was actually the one who spent a lot of time trying to teach you that. I remember when you were like "BP is better, period" and even denied the existance of campaign genres, claiming that BP was simply ahead of (read: better than) the original FreeSpace style, and that there is no such thing as a character-driven campaign. The community, however, realized that there are various kinds of campaigns, and that player characters who talk and interact with other characters aren't always appreciated. Your current approach is much more modest than it used to be, and that's quite encouraging IMO.
And again, here, I don't think I've seen anyone claim this. I don't know what you're trying to say or who you're trying to argue against.
I'm not refering to any claims, just to obvious facts people seem to have forgotten. For example, during your battles against the reputation of good ol' campaigns like Derelict, you never happen to underline that Derelict has been created when the gross majority of the features we now have were not available. Derelict's two campaign creators, unlike the BP Team, couldn't ask coders to add new features. They couldn't create their own HTL, uber models, and couldn't rely on stuff like cutscenes and new SEXPs. They had a lot of limits and I bet they didn't even imagine what would have happened to FreeSpace's fanbase thanks to the SCP and FSU. Ignoring these facts during a discussion on the subject, IMO, equals to say "we're better than they were, period". It may be just my impression, afterall, but I'm pretty sure I've noticed a "we're so much better than the old campaign designers" feeling around here, even though it isn't true, or at least it can't be proved.
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I was actually the one who spent a lot of time trying to teach you that. I remember when you were like "BP is better, period" and even denied the existance of campaign genres, claiming that BP was simply ahead of (read: better than) the original FreeSpace style, and that there is no such thing as a character-driven campaign. The community, however, realized that there are various kinds of campaigns, and that player characters who talk and interact with other characters aren't always appreciated. Your current approach is much more modest than it used to be, and that's quite encouraging IMO.
I have never said this. If you believe I have said this you are misremembering a misinterpretation, something that exists only in your own head.
My opinion has always been that there should be a variety of narrative approaches, just as Volition advocated. You can spend as much time as you like with my post history and you will not be able to find any evidence to the contrary.
You've always been a little emotional but this is...really weird.
I'm not refering to any claims, just to obvious facts people seem to have forgotten. For example, during your battles against the reputation of good ol' campaigns like Derelict, you never happen to underline that Derelict has been created when the gross majority of the features we now have were not available.
If I were battling against the reputation of Derelict, why would I say I believe it is a superb campaign, and that it cannot be said to be any worse than other good campaigns? I said that right here in this thread - that it was one of the greatest campaigns of all time and that no campaign could be called greater.
If I did not wish to underline that Derelict had been created before many new features were available, why would I post quotes indicating that Derelict had been created when many new features were unavailable?
How have you missed these points? Are you just looking to create a fight? Haven't you been banned and ostracized enough - why would you want to create more conflict?
You don't even play FreeSpace, so isn't that kind of...rude to people like ReeNoIP and Spoon and Axem who've done great work in recent years?
But I do play Freespace. Me liking Derelict as the most awesome campaign (I have ever played) has nothing to do with the lack of awesomeness of Axem, or Spoon, or ReeNoIP, but more about Russel.
Blaise Russell didn't FRED Derelict.
I'm not refering to any claims, just to obvious facts people seem to have forgotten. For example, during your battles against the reputation of good ol' campaigns like Derelict
I think [Derelict] is wonderful
I'm arguing that there is no longer a best campaign, that there are instead a vast number of high-quality campaigns which can satisfy just about every desire
You never happen to underline that Derelict has been created when the gross majority of the features we now have were not available.
really it's because back in the day Derelict was basically the only campaign that came near Volition's quality, but today we have so much work that has either matched or wildly exceeded Volition's design that people say 'wow, look at all this amazing stuff, it is all great' rather than 'THAT ONE IS BEST'.
Yes but you're also pretty much comparing one of the first big campaigns to be made (and then updated to SCP) to Blue Planet which, really, I would suggest is one of the best FS2 campaigns made. I also think Derelict was the first big attempt at the HLP forums to voice act an entire campaign. There's literally ten years of innovation and improvement between the two of them.
Pretty rough getting caught in an outright lie, isn't it?
More fact checking on your claims coming right up.
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K. Girls, you're both pretty.
Regardless of when a campaign was made, it is still awesome simply for the fact of it's existence. Doesn't matter if it never got finished, or people found it un-polished or incomplete. Just the act of having been created, regardless of the standards or the limitations, makes it something wonderful.
There is no first place. There is no second place. There is no last place. There is simply Created, or Yet-to-be-Created.
This thread is done.
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Blaise Russell didn't FRED Derelict.
No, but he did update it for SCP.
Just to make that point clear.