Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Stargazer_2098 on May 16, 2002, 03:06:43 pm
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Yup, you read right. Interplay is falling, and pretty soon they will be begging for money. They will begin to sell rights for games and products, and maby even sell back the right to Volition to produce Freespace 3! Go to this thread at the Volition Watch forum for more info. This is great news indeed!
http://www.hard-light.net/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=6207
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there is hope, but only very faint. Even if Interplay decides to sell the rights to FS2, it is unknown, if THQ/:v: will buy them. I'm sure THQ has bigger moneymakers, such as a Britney Spears game (god knows, I'll never forgive them that) to make. I'm not sure if they are willing to put cash out for it. But lets hope.
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Originally posted by Stunaep
there is hope, but only very faint. Even if Interplay decides to sell the rights to FS2, it is unknown, if THQ/:v: will buy them. I'm sure THQ has bigger moneymakers, such as a Britney Spears game (god knows, I'll never forgive them that) to make. I'm not sure if they are willing to put cash out for it. But lets hope.
well, correct me if i'm wrong, but if someone ( anybody ) buys the FS rights, it's to make something out of it right?
I'm not holding my breath tho, time will tell.
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mmmmmmmmmmm.... dunno. I think i could live my life without freespace 3 (you get used to dissapointment after a while), and i dont want to get up any false hope, so unless there's a clear sign of a move towards FS3, im gonna stick to the tried and tested opinion that its easier to just assume FS3 will never come out.
Sorry, its just how i am. :sigh:
pete
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Whoever does FS3 should know that it will bring in a LOT of money.
They don't care about gamers. Only the popularity of the games they play.
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If FS3 came out, it would lack compared to FS2, because INterplay is a very high-tech company (ST: Bridge Commander, BG 2), and (V) would have a hard-time catching up. Although FS3 would probably come out, it would take a couple of years.
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As I said in the VW thread that Stargazer linked to, "Don't forget, THQ owns Volition. It's more or less in their hands."
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Originally posted by killadonuts
Whoever does FS3 should know that it will bring in a LOT of money.
Er... no, it won't. At least, not a fraction of the money that is autonatically made whenever anyone comes out with a more widely recognized game- you think the FS community is big? It's tiny- not even a percentage of the market. Few companies will spend their time and money on a little-known but excellent series, when they can so easily exert the same effort on some common, name-brand theme like Star Trek or (particularly right now) Star Wars and get thousands of drooling fanboys cramming through their local game shop doors, crawling over the crushed bodies of their weaker colleagues, and shelling out a few years' salary for an early release.
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not everybody can use those licenses, tho.
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I think you can get the one to Star Wars, tho. And there are plenty of others out there- while they haven't done a Bab5 game yet, it's possible, and it would attract a bigger audience than a game that's already gone well past the age when most games die quietly, and was never a smash hit in the first place.
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Although the Freespace community does not count for much in sales, it has some other benefits.
Modding. FS3 would quickly be attacked by modelers and mission creators, and this does count for something in reviews.
Word-of-mouth advertising. The FS community is very dedicated to the game. I'm sure it would get around that FS3 was coming out, and how great it would be.
Not only that, but Volition has said that they would make FS3 if given the opportunity. It doesn't hurt to have your programmers dedicated towards the project (unlike, say, a Britney Spears game).
The highly positive reviews for FS and FS2 will help, as well. The FS franchise is definately on the radar screen of review sites. They would spend a little extra time looking into it, at least.
As has been mentioned elsewhere, FS3 would actually lend itself quite nicely to console gaming. There would have to be some changes (shield strength modification would likely have to be eliminated in favour of automatic constant equalization), but overall the experience would work well on a console. It also works well on a PC (and THQ knows this because of the first two games). Perhaps some sort of XBox crossover could be done; I don't know much about console development, but I thought that the XBox had a development enviroment that was very similar to that for Windows.
Then consider that this could all be done for a dirt-cheap price because Interplay is desperate. I voted Yes, because I think if THQ has any sense they'll buy the franchise (even if they don't use it right away).
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Let's see...
How would we break the commands down to a useful setup on a gamepad?
Let's use a typical setup you'll find almost anywhere.
4 direction cross-pad. (up/down/left/right)
1 joystick-type device.
4 Standard buttons on main surface. (A,B,C,D)
4 buttons on the side of the controller. (1,2,3,4: top left 1, top right 2, bottom left 3, bottom right 4)
And Select and Start of some sort.
Well we gotta fly the thing, so we'll give that to the joystick for steering.
Acelleration/Decelleration. Buttons 3/4.
Match speeds? Double tap 3.
Afterburner? Hold 3 and 4?
Dead stop? Double tap 4.
Fire primary. Button A
Fire Secondary. Button B
Target Select. 1 for hostile, 2 for friendly. (Both of them for New ship/bombs?)
Countermeasures: Button C
Shield quadrant / Energy Management. Toggle Button D
Direct energy to shield area goes to the arrowpad when it's active via toggle on button D.
Energy Management goes to Arrowpad as well when it's active via toggle on Button D.
Not that complicated really. I've seen games that require more out of you than this. I never really have to adjust energy except at the start of a mission (+1 to shields, -1 to gun energy) unless something happens and I need all shields/engines or guns. So that's not an issue.
Of course, for pitch and yaw, you would need that second joystick, but it's not really required.
And then you would have select which would bring up the Comms window where you would lose use of the arrowpad (to highlight what you want to say,) and the toggle button (to send that message.)
Anyone else have any ideas on what I'm missing here?
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Er... no, it won't. At least, not a fraction of the money that is autonatically made whenever anyone comes out with a more widely recognized game- you think the FS community is big? It's tiny- not even a percentage of the market. Few companies will spend their time and money on a little-known but excellent series,
Bah! It's been done before to great success.
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I guess, or actually I'm pretty sure, that it's not going to come out. :headz:
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THERE WILL NOT BE A ****ING FS3!!!!!!!
DAMN NEWBIES, YAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
*pulls out kipper gun*
*eyes Stargazer_2098[/i] hungrily*
*Immediately turns him into BBQ'd chicken*
Yummmm!!
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Please, Unk. calm down, drink coffee, go watch AOTC. This is not necessary.
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Yah, Peanuts is right that it's not necessary. However, I think that UT is right in the fact that there will almost definitely be no FS3. That's what FSF if for.
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I'll believe it when I see it
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Likewise.
Much as I'd love another FS game, where the GTVA and the Shivans ally to face a bigger threat, it's unlikely to happen.
I did have a crazy dream not long ago that the FS community grouped together, pooled cash and bought the rights ourselves, then gave them to :v:.
Crazy I know.............meh...............
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I doubt Interplay would sell the rights to a bunch of hackers, moddelers, and nerds (no offense to anyone, please don't throw things at me)
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Oh no!! Not this time people. I am not falling for this old prank again!!! :mad2:
Boy,.... you guys are smart!! :headz:
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Originally posted by Unkown Target
THERE WILL NOT BE A ****ING FS3!!!!!!!
DAMN NEWBIES, YAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
*pulls out kipper gun*
*eyes Stargazer_2098[/i] hungrily*
*Immediately turns him into BBQ'd chicken*
Yummmm!!
Razor gets behind UT and says:
"Don't worry we understand you."
Kicks UT in the a** and UT flies back to the place where was once VBB.
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Originally posted by NotDefault
Although the Freespace community does not count for much in sales, it has some other benefits.
Modding. FS3 would quickly be attacked by modelers and mission creators, and this does count for something in reviews.
Word-of-mouth advertising. The FS community is very dedicated to the game. I'm sure it would get around that FS3 was coming out, and how great it would be.
Not only that, but Volition has said that they would make FS3 if given the opportunity. It doesn't hurt to have your programmers dedicated towards the project (unlike, say, a Britney Spears game).
The highly positive reviews for FS and FS2 will help, as well. The FS franchise is definately on the radar screen of review sites. They would spend a little extra time looking into it, at least.
As has been mentioned elsewhere, FS3 would actually lend itself quite nicely to console gaming. There would have to be some changes (shield strength modification would likely have to be eliminated in favour of automatic constant equalization), but overall the experience would work well on a console. It also works well on a PC (and THQ knows this because of the first two games). Perhaps some sort of XBox crossover could be done; I don't know much about console development, but I thought that the XBox had a development enviroment that was very similar to that for Windows.
Then consider that this could all be done for a dirt-cheap price because Interplay is desperate. I voted Yes, because I think if THQ has any sense they'll buy the franchise (even if they don't use it right away).
*sigh* I guess you wouldn't be to know...
I've seen what happens to games when separate companies buy the rights. It's never pretty, and it's never very much like the original- 's like re-releasing your favorite movie (TV show, whatever, I don't follow much of that) with a completely new director, different cast, different plot and scriptwriters, using different props, all going for a completely different sort of production. Companies rarely feel the need to stay faithful to the original vision, and even if they do, they're not very successful very often. I should know...
THOSE BASTARDS AT ZUXXEZ TURNED MY E2150 INTO AN RPG!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
And it's not the only example, though it's the one that remains freshest in the mind, in the same way that salt on a wound tends to linger...
Just because Volition supported modding doesn't mean any new producer would. It's entirely up to the publisher, and despite all the very good reasons for a mod-friendly game, most publishers don't like to make their games so. And Volition wouldn't be making it again- they're working for THQ now, and THQ wouldn't be interested. Even if they were, they'd likely change it completely to fit the sort of things THEY make, which is very different from what Volition and Interplay generally dealt in. Hope, pray nobody buys the rights to FreeSpace. If you think that having no sequel is bad, imagine how much worse having a distorted abomination calling itself a sequel which does not even slightly resemble the orignal would be... That's the sort of catastrophe that kills gaming communities, though the original remains.
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I don't see any good reason to make the Freespace 3 for consoles.
Reasons for not making it on consoles:
Consoles suck! If I remember, X Box has a CPU on 750 Mhz which is nothing compared to a high End PC.
Graphics on consoles can't even get close to those on the PC
No internet, so no multiplayer
No MODing so we would be very dissapointed I guess
Playing the same campaign over and over, so you won't be able to make missions (no FRED 3)
Consoles don't have enough...eeeh...buttons for all Freespace commands
Any other reasons?
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Originally posted by Razor
I don't see any good reason to make the Freespace 3 for consoles.
Reasons for not making it on consoles:
Consoles suck! If I remember, X Box has a CPU on 750 Mhz which is nothing compared to a high End PC.
... and its all in hardware, so its a hell of a lot faster.
Graphics on consoles can't even get close to those on the PC
... because the console is usually attached to a television, and makes good use of that medium, not the medium of your high res (and more expensive) monitor
No internet, so no multiplayer
...except the LAN port on my DreamCast and the japanese one for PS2...
No MODing so we would be very dissapointed I guess
Playing the same campaign over and over, so you won't be able to make missions (no FRED 3)
...so what is that hard drive attached to the LAN expansion for the PS2 for? Or did you mean exclusively fan made missions?
Consoles don't have enough...eeeh...buttons for all Freespace commands
...except ten buttons, two analog sticks, an analog D-pad, and two spare buttons are enough for pretty much anything...
Somewhere I lost the reasons it couldn't be done.
Of course it WON'T be done. Volition will A) not buy the rights and B) not make on the Freespace game even if they could. The market for it is gone. If having the Babylon5 license attached to a space sim couldn't get a game out the door despite the large builtin market (space-sim fans and Babylon5 fans), what chance does some paltry independent like Freespace have? Give up.
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It is clear to me that you are a console fan. :rolleyes:
And besides, :v: would make Freespace 3 if they would get the rights for it. DaveB talked about it on the Volition watch forums and said that the :v: guys are willing to present new ideas for the game if they could make it.
Anyway, I hope that it will be made (someday) but not for console because it just doesn't fit.
The previous 3 games were made for PC so why not make the next sequel for PCs too? ;)
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Originally posted by Razor
It is clear to me that you are a console fan. :rolleyes:
And besides, :v: would make Freespace 3 if they would get the rights for it. DaveB talked about it on the Volition watch forums and said that the :v: guys are willing to present new ideas for the game if they could make it.
Anyway, I hope that it will be made (someday) but not for console because it just doesn't fit.
The previous 3 games were made for PC so why not make the next sequel for PCs too? ;)
ME? Console fan? Nah. Just answering your rather unjust accusations about the medium. Whilst I have several consoles, I only play RPGs on them, so I can generally get away with a DPad and three buttons (two if 'menu' is the same as 'cancel' in the non combat mode). My point was simply that you can't negate consoles because YOU don't like them. Space sims have been done, and done well on them in the past, and likely will in the future.
HOWEVER. Freespace3? Don't hold your breath. Releasing the source was the white flag of surrender to the inevitible.
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I personally wouldn't be much interested if it were made only for a console, unless it was really, really good.
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Let's play correct the post, shall we?
Originally posted by X-Files Addict
If FS3 came out, it would lack compared to FS2, because INterplay is a very high-tech company (ST: Bridge Commander, BG 2),
ST:BC was developed by Activision and Totally Games, and has nothing to do with IP. BG2 was developed by Bioware, but was published by IP. Hence, IP has no technology advantage there. Originally posted by X-Files Addict and (V) would have a hard-time catching up. Although FS3 would probably come out, it would take a couple of years. [/B]
:V: wrote the engine, and still owns it, remember?
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Originally posted by Razor
Consoles suck! If I remember, X Box has a CPU on 750 Mhz which is nothing compared to a high End PC.
Yes but I think it has a very powerful video card
No internet, so no multiplayer
Except for the dreamcast, playstation 2, xbox, and gamecube...
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Originally posted by YodaSean
Except for the dreamcast, playstation 2, xbox, and gamecube...
And that'll take off right away
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You people arguing the consoles seem to be missing the really important point- would you rather pay $35 to play FS3, or $475 to a few thousand?
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
or $475 to a few thousand?
Would you explain where you got those numbers from
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The top of my head. Last time I checked (sometime last week), an X-box was well over that lowest figure, and when game consoles are new they are up with my top number.
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But you didn't add in the price of the computer, to anyone who already has it, they ain't gonna pay twice
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I was assuming that, being online, everyone here already HAD access to a computer.:p
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And that people who would buy the game might already have the console to go with it
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'S not so safe to assume that- I don't have any console at all, and most of the computer gamers I know in RL don't, either. Besides which, video games are console-specific, so that while pretty much any old PC will do for a computer FS3, and thus everyone can get it, the odds that a majority of the people here will have the same game console isn't so good. THUS, it's safer to assume that not everyone has it, and that we'd have to buy the damned thing if we were gonna play console FS. Which I'm not planning on doing.
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FS3 is not coming out, but if it would, it'd better be for a computer. A console indeed doesn't have enough keys for FS, and it's pad. That's enough for me.
And also, FRED, modding, and all that, is only for PC games.
The X-Box is powerful, with it's 733MHz CPU, and NV20A graphics card (which is like GF3Ti500 with 2 vertex shaders), but it still wouldn't be good for above reasons.
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I allready mentioned all that. You should read all the posts before you posted that one.
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Originally posted by Razor
I allready mentioned all that. You should read all the posts before you posted that one.
I know you did, and I did read all posts in this thread. I just posted my views, even if they were same with you.
Edit: [offtopic]The Red Faction 2 has bad graphics, but that's what you should expect (it's for PS2 :doubt: ). I guess it looks worse than original one (I haven't played, though), even if it's newer.
At least it looks much, much worse than todays games. And it's not coming out too soon.[/offtopic]
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Originally posted by X-Files Addict
I doubt Interplay would sell the rights to a bunch of hackers, moddelers, and nerds (no offense to anyone, please don't throw things at me)
If we had the money for it, they would. Why would they care who wanted it? Of course, money is the key word. I really have no idea what these things go for, but I'm pretty sure it'd be out of the price range of what we could muster.
As for a console FS3, I don't want a console-only FS3. It could work for console, though, so it's nice to have that option open. Console games aren't as specific anymore, AFAIK; I believe the XBox is similar to a PC in development enviroment (Microsoft made it, so did you think they'd make it incompatible with Windows?).
And I know FS3 has only like a 1% chance of happening. It's nice to know it's actually possible at this point, though.
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FS3 will not come in this life
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[offtopic]The Red Faction 2 has bad graphics, but that's what you should expect (it's for PS2 ). I guess it looks worse than original one (I haven't played, though), even if it's newer.
At least it looks much, much worse than todays games. And it's not coming out too soon.[/offtopic]
I was half-expecting that, considering that it is only being devloped for the PS2. I don't think that even the best-looking Xbox games can really stand up to stuff like UT 2003. :p
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Originally posted by Razor
I
Consoles suck! If I remember, X Box has a CPU on 750 Mhz which is nothing compared to a high End PC.
Don't be daft;
a/ The P3 in the X-box is a altered version which has - IIRC - faster coppermine wiring than normal P3s (not sure, though)
b/ The X-box only runs a massively cut down version of windows, so it has much less multi-tasking overheads
c/ A 2GHz is no faster than a 1.5GHz P3 - the P4 has a 20 stage pipeline, the P3 a 10-15 stage IIRC. What this means is that, once your pipleine goes over 16 stages, it has no beneficial impact on performance - in fact, peformance degrades dsue to flushing and stall cycles, so the clock speed rises with pb[no[/b] increase in performance. This is partly why Intel have developed a 1.5GHz P3 for networking clients.
Hence, top-grade CPus give no real indication of true performance if you look at their MHz rating.
d/The X box has a massively powerful next-gun video card, based on GeForce 3-4+ technology.
e/ the X-box has much better memory access for the nforce GPU, because the memory controller ius located on the actual GPU - reducing latency for texture data, etc.....
Bottom line - you cannot compare the X-box with a Pc on stats - nor an X-box with a Ps2 or Gamecube for that matter - because it is designed and used in a totally different way.
Oh, and IMO the Gamecube is better. More efficient and better designed.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
a/ The P3 in the X-box is a altered version which has - IIRC - faster coppermine wiring than normal P3s (not sure, though)
b/ The X-box only runs a massively cut down version of windows, so it has much less multi-tasking overheads
d/The X box has a massively powerful next-gun video card, based on GeForce 3-4+ technology.
A: I'm not sure, but I think it's slower version of normal P3, something between P3 and a Celeron, maybe.
B: That's true, and windows and background stuff indeed has a big performance hit.
D::nod: It's a NV20 (core of the GF3 based cards) with added vertex shader. So it has two vertex shaders like GF4Ti, but it's not as advanced as GF4Ti - it doesn't have Accuview AA, and LMAII, and all that stuff.
So I agree with you. An X-Box indeed is powerful enough, but would you still want to play FS on console - no modding, no user-made mission, not enough controls - I wouldn't.
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One thing is pretty surtain; Interplay wont survive longer then mostly 2-5 years. The most logical strategy for them, will be to sell licenses and copyrights to the highets bidder in order to get back on their feet. And then, Volition and THQ can buy back the Freespace license at an affordable price.
Volition did say that if they ever got the chance of creating Freespace 3, they would do it. And now, with the fall of Interplay; that chance seems closer to reality then ever.
I gues we just have to wait and see the developments. The future always gives an answer, as an old saying goes...
Stargazer.
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Originally posted by Redfang
A: I'm not sure, but I think it's slower version of normal P3, something between P3 and a Celeron, maybe.
Not sure myself...I worked on an architectural comparison of the Ps2 Vs Gamecube Vs X-box for Uni, and the info on exactly what the P3 used in the console is a bit sketchy... we foud it referred as both a modified Celeron and P3; (extract - our website's still private until it gets marked, IIRC)
There has been much debate as to whether the processor is a P-III or actually a Celeron. It does have a Coppermine core. It runs at 133MHz front side bus and has 128KB of L2 cache. All of the Celeron's that Intel makes nowadays are aparently identical to the Pentium 3, and they all use the Coppermine core. There is one major difference, the Celeron has 128KB of cache. Intel's 733MHz mobile Celeron chips all have a 133MHz front side bus and 128KB of L2 cache identical to that in the Xbox. The chip inside the Xbox is the equivalent to that of a Mobile Celeron (the mobile Celeron has 8 way associative cache).
So I agree with you. An X-Box indeed is powerful enough, but would you still want to play FS on console - no modding, no user-made mission, not enough controls - I wouldn't.
Damn right :D
Although I prefer console controllers to Pc - more user friendly for arcade games, and especially footie ones.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
I prefer console controllers to Pc - more user friendly for arcade games, and especially footie ones.
Good for simpler games, but i miss my mouse when i use a playstation, and I would never give up my MS sidewinder Force feed joystick for a force feed playstation controler which vibrates occasionally at the same frequency.
pete
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FS3 will not be for a console, DaveB said so himself. Besides, a game with as complex functions as FS2 (or 3) would simply be too much for a console controller to handle...Even the menu would overload one!:D
BTW, if you like console controllers, why don't you just buy one of those game-thingies, you know, the ones that look a controller, but they're for the PC?
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Originally posted by beatspete
Good for simpler games, but i miss my mouse when i use a playstation, and I would never give up my MS sidewinder Force feed joystick for a force feed playstation controler which vibrates occasionally at the same frequency.
pete
Ps2 controller is an utter abomination, though.....
Oh, and I do have a Pc gamepad, but its just the simplicity I want.... with a console it's just plug in and go - with my PC one I have to install a program which suppossedly sets the keybindings for any game (but doesn't), and then I have to plug it into the serial port to play FIFA, because EA never programmed in USB support, plus it's analogue stick is a bit too slack, and the buttons are crap, and the shoulder pads are a little to hard to reah, and the coolie hat is just daft...... you get my drift.
console controllers are still better...god knows wht, but they are.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
console controllers are still better...god knows wht, but they are.
:snipe:
:p;)
But well, are they better even in the FPS games?
I think they're better in nothing... but that's my opinion. :D
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I think they're better in nothing... but that's my opinion. :D
I agree there. :p :D
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Xbox and Gamecube Controllers rock...
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Well I think that the chances of us ever seeing FS3 depends on that other game that's mentioned on HLP, Freelancer. If Freelancer, and the other similar games that are scheduled to be realesed, do well, then the likely hood of seeing FS3 increases. Of course, this is also dependant on wheather THQ and V get the rights or not. But if they do, and Freelancer sells lots, then I think that a third Freespace would be built. being that its THQ, don't be surprised if they port it to a console, or the otherway around. FS is easily played with a controller, I use a Logitec Wingman Extreme gamepad to play, only using the key board for a few things. I also thought i read somewhere that the X-box was getting a key board. I not sure about that. there is also the chance that the consoles they make it for would be the next gen ones. Realistically, it would take 2-3 years to make FS3. That's after the release of Freelancer, so add another year ontop of that. there is no way that it will be out for another 3-4 at the least! That may affect it's chances for release, as who wants to build a game based on a 8 year old product. But it could be done, and I for one am holding on to the hope we'll see it. it may not be soon, but eventually It will get made. I don't think that thw idea of the community buying it is a bad one. Even if V doesn't want it, that way we can build it and release it ourselves. Interplay might just reach that desperate point. ANd even if it is never made, thats what Freespace Forever is for. ;)
here is to the future of the FS Community the finest in the world
Thor
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Originally posted by Thor
That may affect it's chances for release, as who wants to build a game based on a 8 year old product.
ahem... Return to Castle Wolfenstein... ahem.
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I agree with Stunaep if Wolfenstein can be brougt back surely FS3 can... might not be as popular though
here's hopen:wink: :yes: :) ;)
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Good point.
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Who bumped this topic? Get me my flamethrower. It's topic bumper Grillin' time :)
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OH GOD NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought this kind of stuff was gone ages ago, nooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!
FS3 will most likely not be brought back. Wolfenstein was because it was very popular, and FS2 was not.
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also it happened to be the world's first shooter, so it was worth resurrecting
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Originally posted by Razor
I don't see any good reason to make the Freespace 3 for consoles.
I admit freespace has a hell of a lot of keys and other disadvantages that would get in the way of making a console version. And also the limitations of the consoles would have some negative effects on the game.
But the overwelming advantage is the money. The difference in sales between the PC and consoles is vast.
So advatages are:
Game makes more money, more likely to be another one.
Game engine has to be in good order to work on consoles so the code will be really tide and just run amazingly on the PC.
Im really glad Deus Ex 2 is being developed for the console as well. It means it will hopefully avoid the same traps that FS2 fell into.
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Originally posted by Unkown Target
OH GOD NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought this kind of stuff was gone ages ago, nooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!
Oh, come on, let us dream.
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where did this topic come from? :wtf:
Deus Ex 2
Since there is (probably) not going to be any FS3, this is my most wanted game now. ;)
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Why dream? That's not very wise, as it's almost sure it isn't coming. If you spend a lot of time thinking about it, it doesn't help at all.
:wtf:What amazes me is the result of the poll. Most say yes.
And Thor, you said that FS would easily be played on a console. Console with a keyboard, yes, but X-Box has less than 10 keys, I think about 6 as I haven't played with X-Box for a long while. That isn't enough for FS, unless it would be limited.
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I dont expect to see FS3 but I can hope for it. If no-one does then of course it wont happen. I wouldnt be here if I didnt want a FS3 but Im trying to help where I can in the code project because I dont expect there to be a FS3.
I guess if you've been in these forums for a while then this thread must be a regular event as new people turn up. And I can see how that would get on your nerves but its mostly harmless as long as no-one holds their breath or anything.
Plan for the worst, hope for the best.
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Originally posted by RandomTiger
If no-one does then of course it wont happen.
:wtf:What does that affect? :confused:
Anyway, I of course would want FS3 to come, but I'm 99,9% sure that it won't happen, so I'm not thinking about it...
And no, I don't actually get annoyed by these threads, and I haven't been here for very long either. But at a place you might not or might have heard of, the VBB, which is now closed, I did get annoyed by these kind of threads. At the last months of VBB I stopped flaming newbies who asked that, though.
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I think the X-box controller has eight buttons, four normal, the white and black buttons and two trigger. If one of these was a shift button, then the number would increase. It probably would be limited, for the console. Hopefully V knows enough that PC Gamers want more options than there consloe brothers. As for the idea that ignore the fact that FS3 will never be made, well I think its rather stupid. If we as a collective all demand that THQ buy the rights, than we're that much closer to getting it done. In order for FS3 to come to be, we need to promote the hell out of FS2 and FS1. We need to prove to THQ that it would be a profitable purchase. I have sent an e-mail to THQ asking for FS3. If we all did that, then they might get the idea that people want this game, and will buy it if its released.
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:sigh: Mailing THQ wouldn't help. That has been done. And Volition knows we want the game, but it still wouldn't make enough money. And Interplay isn't going to sell the rights unless it goes down.
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[V] would never develope FS3 for a console. They said so themselves.
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Who said :v: would do it?
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BTW, Tiger, these threads don't show up too often. And we like it that way. That's why we hate it when these things show up, because we thought these were gone with the VBB.
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I think the chances of Volition making a totally different space sim not based on FS2 has a better chance of being made then FS3.
Why? Because fresh and new ideas are the core of the industry. No one wants a part 3 to anything really.
Not too mention the fact if FS3 came out, those who didnt buy fs1 or 2 wouldnt bother with it because they see how it failed miserably the first time.
IMO FS3 would be great, but i doubt it will happen.
I would rather see a fresh new idea based on the same engine but enhanced drastically with geo mod and the ability to fly over terrain as well as space fighting then see another knockoff of an old classic.
Let FS2 die as it did, a classic game that won awards and the hearts of many. May it pave a path for the next great space sim for us to enjoy and have our minds blown away by something fresh and new by the only ones who can make it (volition) so a new era of gaming can begin. FS2 and SW carry too much BS for it to go on, something fresh and new has a new slate, which is the best thing for any game that is based on something already out there.
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I dont want to annoy anyone but I dont see whats wrong with talking about it. I dont think its impossible for the freespace interface to be rethought *. I dont see why ' Lonestar's cool ideas couldnt be in freespace 3. I dont know anyone who can predict the future, do you?
I understand that all the legal issues make a new freespace game a lot less attractive to V than starting a new one.
On the other hand I just think that a lot of people including all the people in this thread want to see more because FS2 left so many unanswered questions. And while anyone at V is (allegedly) still interested in Freespace Im not willing to give up hope.
Some advise to anyone who doesnt want FS3 in the forum all the time. Im new to FS newsgroups and didnt know that FS3 was not happening. But someone had a sig about it with a link to more info that answered all my questions so I didnt feel the need to bring it up. So try that maybe it worked on me.
* They did it with Deus Ex for PS2, however I havent seen it so I cant really comment. Also I only use a fraction of the keys in the game anyway because I cant remember them all.
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Off the top of my head.... FS2 on PS2;
d-pad / analog for aiming (might need an assist, PS2 analog stick is ustter ). On the main buttons - 2 buttons for shooting, 2 for cycling weapons (or this could be done via a pause screen or button combo). Start button pauses, select changes to chase view. L1 & R1 cycle nearest enemy and toggle match speed respectively, L2 and R2 increase / decrease speed. Pause brings up a menu allowing optionsa to be changed.... i think that's all you need (?)
I mean, i originally bought FS because it was simple, point and shoot. You could play it without having to remember 20 different buttons.... m, h and , . were all I needed alongside me joystick.
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From the FAQ I wrote months ago when the VBB was still running..
The subject of Freespace 3 is a bit of a sore point with many people. Volition, (Simply known as [V] by the fans), the makers of Freespace had it published by a company called Interplay. Volition later struck a deal with another publisher THQ. Interplay retained the rights to Freespace. Since Interplay won`t sell the rights to [V] nor hire another developer to make FS3 we are at an impass.
The Freespace Community have tried various methods to bring about FS3 including petitions and mailings to [V] and interplay. None of these had had much of an effect since (somewhat suprisingly) Freespace 2 didn't do very well and interplay don`t wish to stick their neck out to write a third.
The really annoying thing about this is that [V] are actually more than willing to do a third freespace game but can't since interplay hold the licenses. Interplay is now in financial trouble and many people have suggested that [V]'s parent company THQ might buy the licence. Hopefully they will.
The subject of FS3 gets discussed all the time and most people have got a little bit sick of it. Rather than continually poke at the large wound that is FS3 we prefer to ignore it's existance. Although stranger things have happened it is far simpler to pretend that there will never be a FS3 than it is to cling to the faint hope that there will be.
For these reasons posting questions about FS3 tends to get you insulted. It's like repeatedly reminding someone about the loss of a loved one, tactless and pointless at the same time. If you post something new we'd all be pleased to hear it but you have to remember that FS2 is over 3 years old so almost everything has already been discussed several times.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Off the top of my head.... FS2 on PS2;
d-pad / analog for aiming (might need an assist, PS2 analog stick is ustter ). On the main buttons - 2 buttons for shooting, 2 for cycling weapons (or this could be done via a pause screen or button combo). Start button pauses, select changes to chase view. L1 & R1 cycle nearest enemy and toggle match speed respectively, L2 and R2 increase / decrease speed. Pause brings up a menu allowing optionsa to be changed.... i think that's all you need (?)
Aim assist? :snipe:
*gets killed by a sniper rifle*
*is raised by a cleric*
Hmm, that wouldn't be enough for me, I need the ETS, countermeasures, subsystem targeting, linking weapons (though I always used double), communications... that's not all, I need actually much more, but that's what comes to mind...
But again, aim assist? I would never play a game with it... :headz:
*gets killed by a Vasudan*
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Originally posted by Redfang
Aim assist? :snipe:
*gets killed by a sniper rifle*
*is raised by a cleric*
Hmm, that wouldn't be enough for me, I need the ETS, countermeasures, subsystem targeting, linking weapons (though I always used double), communications... that's not all, I need actually much more, but that's what comes to mind...
But again, aim assist? I would never play a game with it... :headz:
*gets killed by a Vasudan*
the Ps2 joystick is the biggest pile of ***** in history.... it's useless for any sort of vertical movement, and plainly designed solely for driving games.... thus, it would probably be an ustter nightmare trying to aim with the thing in FS2, and some sort of assistance would required - akin to I-War 2, which it worked fairly well in :nod:
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Yes, I know it's hard to impossible to aim with it, but aim assist isn't the right way to do it... better controller is... :)
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We shouldn't be so impatient about FS3. I think it has a good chance of coming out sometime in the very distant future when theirs more demand for space sims. Right now most people don't seem to care about the genre. Perhaps with the release of Freelancer, which has Microsoft backing it(which means a big name for casual buyers and maybe lots of hype), and all of the MMO space sims, there will some day be more demand for Freespace 3. I'd give it at least five years :)
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there is hope for freespace 3, and it will be a reality. It's called the source code project. Isn't that what they do? Take the code and expand it to make a sequel? Isn't that what our guys are doing? We'd may as well call it freespace 3, because that's what it will be, but this time, they are asking us what we want in it, not giving us what they think should be in it, so for us, this will be the pinnacle. it's gunna rock.
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You people are sad. If this entire community wants it, they'll get it. If FS3 is developed as good as it is, THQ will get smart and advertise the living hell out of it. Hell, V should team up with Microsoft. Microsoft treats their developers good. Even though I hate Microsoft, it's something I have to give them credit for.
Just look at how successful Dungeon Siege is. It reached the top 5 within the first two months of being released. Freespace 2, just as many have said before, had a bad marketing job done on it. The original FreeSpace was a decent success. If it wasn't, I never would have bought it. I would have bought Freespace 2 sooner, but I didn't have the money. If they could advertise Freespace 3 as much as they do something like Half Life, Age of Empires, or even that half assed game called Starcraft, they'd make a ****load of money, and make way for FS4.
There is still hope for the series, you negative jackasses. Just look at the community for Total Annihilation. They fought like hell to get a sequel to their game, and THEY GOT IT. If ALL of the fans want it, they'll get it, and then some.
Stop being so damn negative, and fight for it!
It's still not too late. Total Annihilation 2 is now going to be made after the community for it fought it ever since 1997! Freespace 3 should be no different.
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Right on Brother! Power to the community! If everyone here sent in an e-mail to THQ, and then found some more people willing to support the cause, and they sent in e-mails, well, it would be a good thing. I wa also thinking of sending an e-mail to PC gammer and Computer Gaming World and seeing if they would consider doing an article or something on the FS Community. I know PCG has the extened play column and CGW has the homebrew section, and this community is perfect for coverage in the magazines. And any magazine coverage could only help the cause. Jake101 is right, the best course of action is not to sit around and moan about the likelyhood of there being or not being a FS3, but to try and makesure it happens. Even if it fails, then at least we know we tried to get it done, and the only thing preventing it was the shortsightedness of THQ and the stubborness of Interplay. So guys and gals, lets rise to the cause and make this happen!
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We're going to have to give them a good showing. If the Source Code project or Paradigm Shift is a success we'll have one. Show them it and then really start lobbying.
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Originally posted by Jake101
You people are sad. If this entire community wants it, they'll get it. If FS3 is developed as good as it is, THQ will get smart and advertise the living hell out of it. Hell, V should team up with Microsoft. Microsoft treats their developers good.
Yeah, Microsoft would help us if it smells enough money...
Bill Gates has hired the best game programmers in the world, so if we show them how successfully it would be we won't be disappointed...
I think that they would even unofficially support our source code project...
If you think it would be unrealistic remember one word: publicity
Just look at the Mechwarrior saga, they bought it and it came to be a money making machine...
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Um... what?
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I shot off an email to PC Gamer. Its not likely that they'd do even the smallest little mention, but hey, its worth a shot. Publicity is key. We as a community is nowhere near as vocal as it should be. Let the e-mail campaign begin!
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Ok, we voice our opinion, do you think that the 50 of us in this community can really get anything it done? I say before we start *****ing about fs3, we see the SCP guys come up with. I'll stand by my beliefs. when was the last time a developer said, ok guys, what do you want to see? Our guys rock, i have more faith in them than i do in the companies, because they aren't making it to make money, they are making it because they believe in it. 3 people that believe in something will always be worth 10 mercenaries.
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Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH
there is hope for freespace 3, and it will be a reality. It's called the source code project. Isn't that what they do? Take the code and expand it to make a sequel? Isn't that what our guys are doing? We'd may as well call it freespace 3, because that's what it will be, but this time, they are asking us what we want in it, not giving us what they think should be in it, so for us, this will be the pinnacle. it's gunna rock.
Originally posted by ZylonBane at the VBB
If it's not made by Volition, it's not FS3.
Originally posted by Jake101
There is still hope for the series, you negative jackasses. Just look at the community for Total Annihilation. They fought like hell to get a sequel to their game, and THEY GOT IT. If ALL of the fans want it, they'll get it, and then some.
Stop being so damn negative, and fight for it!
It's still not too late. Total Annihilation 2 is now going to be made after the community for it fought it ever since 1997! Freespace 3 should be no different.
How big is TA community? I'm sure it's bigger... :wtf:
Interplay owns the rights, and Interplay is you know what...
Volition knows that we, the community, want FS3. They can't do much about it, THQ maybe would do a bit more, interplay could do much by selling the rights, but then THQ has to let Volition make it.
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The writing e-mails idea is all well and good but don`t you think someone has tried that kind of thing before? We have. It's got us absolutely nowhere. So excuse me if I don`t feel like jumping up and down at the idea of doing it again and getting nowhere again.
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Originally posted by Mr. Vega
We're going to have to give them a good showing. If the Source Code project or Paradigm Shift is a success we'll have one. Show them it and then really start lobbying.
if?!
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We're going to have to give them a good showing. If the Source Code project or Paradigm Shift is a success we'll have one. Show them it and then really start lobbying.
It's not an if, it's a when. I'll thow my lot in with the 98% sure thing, not the 2% chance in hell of getting ice water crowd.
Would i like to see freespace 3? yeah, i would. Do i think it will happen outside our ranks? No, i don't.
There's also one other thing people have failed to mention....Freespace 2 didn't sell so well. yeah, those of us who have it love it, but on the other hand.....will there be a sizeable market for freespace 3, after all, there was a sizeable market for the creation of fs2 following in the wake of FS, but will the downhill trend continue? marketers and developers alike will ask these questions. They will also look at development costs and weigh them against probable returns. Cost projection analyses and profitability margins.
Will there be enough profit to outweigh the cost of devlopment and marketting. No matter how much we love the game, they are running a busiiness, the money is the bottom line.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
if?!
If they end up actually being completed in less than 3 years.
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What we need to do is show them all how meny of the websites, and oners of both games there are. And then get all of us to sine it somehow and then send it in with a pleay to interplay and V to make another game.
with this we should also send in E-mails, post mails and from topics all over the place.
not only this but there are not many more space combat game like FS2 &1 out there right now so the market is open, and they could rivie the market all at once.
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The biggest hope for the continuation of the Freespace Games is the success of Freelancer. I just read a very good article on Freelancer in Computer Games magzine. It said at the end of it:
When the release finally rolls around, the question remains whether it will revitalize a dying genre, or simply add to it.
If we even want to any more games simply even like Freespace are made, then we need to help make sure that Freelancer is a hit. karajorma
and ShadowWolf_IH are right, e-mails alone won't get us FS3, but by responding with our wallets might.
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Don't get me wrong, i would love to see Freespace 3, and given the right circumstances I could probably put my business up as collateral on a loan to buy the rights, then turn the Source Code project guys loose, turn some modders loose, and we could all split the profits. The hard cold fact is though, that even if the price were to drop into a range that i could raise, i wouldn't. After the failure of Freespace 2 in the market (not as a kick ass ride, it excelled in that) i just don't see where there will be a market. Freelancer? I plan to buy a copy when it comes out.
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If there's a market for Freelancer, then there's a market for Freepace. If we do get FS3, it wouldn't be exactly the same as 1 and 2. But, for the meantime, lets through some support behind the Source Code Project, and all of the great campaigns. I'll just keep on wishing....
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Thank you Thor, my point exactly......about the SCP guys. I think that our modders and campaign writers will always have a modicum of support.
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Er.....since we're on the subject of the possibility of FS3 being created, what is it going to be called?
Just FreeSpace 3, or something like- Freespace: The Final War
and if FS3 comes to be, then, what if they make a 3 game pack, and call it- FreeSpace: The Saga, it'll have all the games, and the add-ons.
my 2 cents
Cor
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Methinks it's more likely that THQ allow :V: to do an original space game, than actually pay up for the FS brandname. Seeing as Fs is now pretty much unknown - and thus not worth much in advertising (ironically enough) - it doesn't make too much sense to base a game on a Universe that not many people will be familar with, and on a story many people don't know'
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Aldo! Shame on you! You're one of the finest in this community, and you claim that no one would recognize the universe? Who cares?! Do you have any idea what the possibilities are in the immersion of a game with an audience?
There are tons of people who have played sequels to games but had no idea what the first was like, and the sequels excelled further than the originals. Why? Storyline development and beginning player immersion.
Take a look at the amazingly popular series. Metroid, Zelda, EVEN Freespace 2, there's many who played that first, before the original.
The community for Total Annihilation was not always that big. At the time they began fighting for a sequel, they had to grow to fight it. That's something we can all do as well.
[V] doesn't have to make a sequel, they can make a prequel. They don't have to make it EXTENDING clearly off of everything. Take a look at Star Trek. Do you really think everyone who watched Voyager, DS9, TNG, and the original show really knew about ALL of it? They don't have to know what came before.
In fact, Freespace 2, I felt, veered away from the original almost too much. It is possible, believe me, to make an excellent sequel that everyone can look into. They can also remake the stories, port the campaigns, and tell the entire thing throughout records and documents. IMMERSION.
The more the player wants to find out, the more there will be for the player to discover and explore. It's only more of a building base.
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Originally posted by Jake101
Aldo! Shame on you! You're one of the finest in this community, and you claim that no one would recognize the universe? Who cares?! Do you have any idea what the possibilities are in the immersion of a game with an audience?
There are tons of people who have played sequels to games but had no idea what the first was like, and the sequels excelled further than the originals. Why? Storyline development and beginning player immersion.
Fs2 is clearly intended to be followed on - the ending is pretty much an open invitation for a sequel - that means that a proper sequel would have to refer to and follow on from the evnts of Capella to really tie in with it... that in itself could be very tough to do.
And if :V: were going to follow on, the existing community would expect the story to be concluded.
My main point was that the FS unvierse isn't that valuable as a 'brand' - thus THQ are unlikely to want to buy it for anything more than a nominal fee. I don't want to sound defeatist, but it's true....
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Originally posted by Jake101
You people are sad. If this entire community wants it, they'll get it. If FS3 is developed as good as it is, THQ will get smart and advertise the living hell out of it. Hell, V should team up with Microsoft. Microsoft treats their developers good. Even though I hate Microsoft, it's something I have to give them credit for.
Just look at how successful Dungeon Siege is. It reached the top 5 within the first two months of being released. Freespace 2, just as many have said before, had a bad marketing job done on it. The original FreeSpace was a decent success. If it wasn't, I never would have bought it. I would have bought Freespace 2 sooner, but I didn't have the money. If they could advertise Freespace 3 as much as they do something like Half Life, Age of Empires, or even that half assed game called Starcraft, they'd make a ****load of money, and make way for FS4.
There is still hope for the series, you negative jackasses. Just look at the community for Total Annihilation. They fought like hell to get a sequel to their game, and THEY GOT IT. If ALL of the fans want it, they'll get it, and then some.
Stop being so damn negative, and fight for it!
It's still not too late. Total Annihilation 2 is now going to be made after the community for it fought it ever since 1997! Freespace 3 should be no different.
Whos going to listen to less then 100 potential buyers? How is V or THQ going to hook up with microsoft?
Your putting fs3 with the likes of Halflife, AOE and Starcraft? Do you know what your talking about?
Its nice to have your go get em attitude but until FS garners over 500 people for support and then that support is turned into a petition we wont be heard. Whos going to spend money on a dying product? Its like buying the rights to Nightmare On Elm Street, you'll spend more money making and buying it then making money on the damn thing. Would you make such a stupid business decision?
If you do remind me not to work for you.
A new series is far more likely in honor of FS then another FS sequel. Its sad, its unjust but thats the way life is, so learn to live with it. Their will not be an FS3, accept it. As for the jackass crack, I would look at your statements before saying anything like that, your argument has no base, nor any logic. You my friend are a jackass for putting FS in the neighbiourhood with games like Halflife.
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Actually, when you talk about advertising - I've never seen a PC game advertised in the same mass-media way as a console game.... which pretty much restricts the market whoe knows oif the game pre-release to those who buy the games magazine you advertise in.... and seeing as Pc mags are generally vastly overpriced (£5 for 100-ish page mag and a bunch of demos you may never want to play...) many people will never hear of it. The sucees of Half Life, and Championship Manager is partly due to word of mouth.
Besides which, I bet Interplay would sell the Fs licence (due to their current problems and the general slump in that whole genre, etc) - but have THQ asked them? I mean, THQ don't seem too much of a risk taker when it comes to original games (i.e. not Wrestling or brand name licensed...)
That said, I remeber when I had a SNEs, and every single THQ game that came out got sub-20% marks in reviews :D
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I think THQ are nervous about space combat. Their last offering, X-Beyond the Frontier got a lukewarm reception, even though in the UK, PCZ praised it, PCG slaughtered it (they only played it for about four hours, PCZ played it all week, and then some). They may feel (and rightly so) that Space Combat is not a very popular genre - and it's hard to get right.
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You'd think that people would either just drop the subject altogether, or just tell Volition to get their asses in gear and pay the money. As has been said, Interplay need the cash, so they'd sell for peanuts. All I can say is that I hope it happens, but I'm not expecting anything any time soon. Pester them enough, and they'll do it, but it will take time.:confused:
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1.) As for interplay "Let them die, Let them ALL die." That way that bogus slogan "by gamers for gamers" can be reclaimed by people who actually mean it.
2.) I feel bad for volition now that I understand their position (misdirected anger is a terrible thing, my apologies if any are watching).
3.) WE as a community don't have to buy any crap just because it is on the market... When they realise no one is buying it they lose $ If they make FS3 and totally hose it I WILL NOT BUY IT! I will try the demo first or immediately return it to the store in disgust in the worst case senario. As for them maingit into a platform game (PS2 or whatever) I decided to get a NEW computer at twice the cost of old X box since it can't come close to the performance I now get :cool: Anyway een if volition goes ahead with FS3 we need to maintain the source code project despite any handicaps (age of the engine, ect) because if we the gamers really want something then WE have to do it ourselves...
For me it started back in O say around 1984 or '85. We were discussing Star Wars Vs. Star Trek and it always seemed like that would be a cool game. Lo and behold no one has ever produced it though I am sure the fan base is there(meaning $$$$) but 4 years ago I bought a game called FS1. WOW I deleted X wing Vs. Tie fighter (the standard at the time) from my drive and never looked back! Even now the original kicks X Wing Alliances butt all over the cosmos (are you reading this George? Take notes). More than that I wished Mech1-4 could have been better.... Then later that much delayed travesty Battle Cruiser Millenium that looked like a rip off of the late '80's game Elite (the graphis were very similiar). Of course those stink bombs X and Alligence (Pay for that crap monthly? Only if I was on crack!)... So you got a lot of games that HAD a lot of potential and one REALLY good space simulator (except for Klingon Academy the ONLY other space combat sim I allow on my drive).
Now enter FS2... Double Wow! Discovering the FS modder community and the workable but often difficult FRED2 I discovered I CAN make the games I want to play (and would be willing to pay for). Without going into the legal issues as an individual for non profit I can Throw STAR WARS, STAR TREK or any other licensed thing together into my 'uber mod' they was I always wanted since high school. With the talent and quality I have witnessed here alone at HLP Forums we should not worry if they do not make a new FS... In fact the only thing we need to worry about is if they DO make one... Remember if the parties involved DO NOT listen to the customers and want to end up screwing themselves (are you also watching SCI-FI Channel/Universal/Fox - re-imagined BSG indded! HUMPH, Not on my watch Buddy!) I say let them! We have the power.... let them buy the rights, spend the time, money, and energy developing their CRAP and then when it gets to market is IS exactly what we fear it will be then just DO NOT BUY IT! Power of the purse is the ultimate power and the only one we have. Just remember to spread the work everytime you walk into a game store (I have on occasion). Get involved, Get store owners (and managers) involved. As far as I am concerned FS3 is being created right here right now and will be far superior to meeting my expectations of a top space combat simulator than anything Interplay or any other developer (except maybe volition) could produce. I've rambled enough for now (Sorry!) Woke up with a headache after a weekend of scouring the net for things to improve FS with... Mod on true belivers!!!!
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Originally posted by Star Dragon
Of course those stink bombs X
[/B]
There was a few things wrong with X, but it was still a great game. How long did you play it for? Twenty minutes? I don't agree.
However:
(are you also watching SCI-FI Channel/Universal/Fox - re-imagined BSG indded! HUMPH, Not on my watch Buddy!)
THAT I do agree with!! :D
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Originally posted by YodaSean
Yes but I think it has a very powerful video card
GeForce 3.5 i think.
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this is the GODDAMN THIRD TIME this topic has been bumped. Please, someone close it already.,:mad:
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Originally posted by Stunaep
this is the GODDAMN THIRD TIME this topic has been bumped. Please, someone close it already.,:mad:
With pleasure.