I think you went a little too far shrinking the glows, but I can bear it.Well, it was meant for the beam to flow out from the glow, instead of the glow looking, well, irrelevant to the beam as it did in previous mvp versions.
they've been fine for years, leave em be.
I do hope that the SGreen is changed no matter what happens. The retail one looks retarded.The beam itself does good damage, the **** dps comes from its absurd fire wait time. So that's no reason for it to look dinky
And its a piss weak beam anyway (lol absolutely **** DPS), so looking dinky is fine.
A little reminder, can people actually vote in the polls too? They're there for a reason. :PI think you went a little too far shrinking the glows, but I can bear it.Well, it was meant for the beam to flow out from the glow, instead of the glow looking, well, irrelevant to the beam as it did in previous mvp versions.
This would be good I think, in the same way that the BFRed is pure red and white while the other beams have that faint purple / pink blending, having maybe a minute trace of blue (Not so much that it becomes cyan), as I recall some 3.6.8 beams used.
or if the various Green type beams should have better distinction (while still being Green), then I'm all ears (and eyes).
Retail sizing. Definitely. No discussion possible. Not gonna enter the troll feeding any more than that.I agree.
Even the Big/Large variants should stay on the bigger side...while the LRed did look a bit goofy on the Lilith in particular, I think that look actually worked for it, since the Lilith essentially mounts a super-overpowered beam on a ship that you'd never expect it from. It's a shame that we can't define beam sizes on a per-ship basis, since that would give much more control over what's appearing where.I think the resized LRed fits on the Lilith very well going by the screen, the beam is contained within the ends of the two arms, and the beam remains fairly large compared to the rest of the ship itself.
Speaking of which, I'd prefer if mjolnir beams got treated as if it were retail size or similar. Sure, the beam glow is the size of the sentry gun, but I like to think that those spinny bits actually do something, like contain the massive ball of plasma that is generated at its tip.No. I will never, ever let the Mjolnir return to the old size, it was worse than the sgreen. It didn't even look as if the spinny bits contained the ball since you couldn't actually see them when it fired
No. I will never, ever let the Mjolnir return to the old sizeDo you speak for FSU in this matter? The way you said it it sounds like that's the case. Just curious, not accusatory or anything.
Hades, sorry about this, but it has to be said, you have a serious case of not listening to others. Your opinion is NOT fact. You DO NOT decide how the beams will look like in the end. You can put in the effort to make them smaller, to make them leaner, not "glaring balls of whiteout boom", whatever. But please, DO NOT push your opinion on to others, DO NOT state your opinion as if it were universal fact, and above all, please DO NOT go rageing over this again.No. I will never, ever let the Mjolnir return to the old sizeDo you speak for FSU in this matter? The way you said it it sounds like that's the case. Just curious, not accusatory or anything.
Hades, sorry about this, but it has to be said, you have a serious case of not listening to others. Your opinion is NOT fact. You DO NOT decide how the beams will look like in the end. You can put in the effort to make them smaller, to make them leaner, not "glaring balls of whiteout boom", whatever. But please, DO NOT push your opinion on to others, DO NOT state your opinion as if it were universal fact, and above all, please DO NOT go rageing over this again.Waaah waaaah waaaah because I don't agree with you. I was listening, that's why I'm making the beam bigger, durr durr durr. I didn't state my opinion as fact, nor did I push it on others in a way to try to change theirs. I don't put 'IMO' in front of everything just to please you, dumbass. Nor do I expect anyone else to either, it's implied that it is an opinion, and I don't see you yelling at anyone else for it, you huge, double-standard prick.
You done good there, kiddo. But accept the fact that some of us want our "HUGEASS BEAMS OF DOOM!", and that we wont trade them for anything in our lives :p
The thickness of the white part (which is mostly what determines apparent beam thickness, since the rest of it is haze/glare) is still thicker in true retail than in yours, which is why lots of us FEEL that the beams got skimpier. Also note that the beam glows themselves are pretty consistent between retail and 3.6.10. They're legit balls of plasma, and not something that looks like a muzzle flash.Actually, the only beams, judging from the above shot, that have while in the middle that differs in mine are the Shivan beams, which I'll admit are a little smaller, though they've gotten bigger since any last released tables of my resized beams.
But yeah, you're mostly right. The 3.6.10 beams are wtf huge compared to retail. Much more than I thought, at least.
Yeah, as you can tell, my beams are mostly the same size to retail, aside from the glows, and in the latest updates in the FSU SVN (not released), some are bigger...
I can't help but laugh now at everyone saying that they miss the retail's size when it's been right there the whole time.
Why not just restore retail data then?
Maybe the difference is in the way the beams are colored. Retail is more or less solid, while mediavps have an outer core and an inner core. From the 3612 table, some inner cores are a little as 3 meters thick, while the outer cores are more wispy and dark. Maybe my mind's eye focuses on the inner core. which makes the beams appear more thin than they used to be.
Also there is still a noticeable difference in the bulb that forms at the turret end.
If you did shoot it down, how thick would the beam be? Hopefully not as thick as the cables on the mainhall... that'd just be overkill.
Why not? This is as noticable as any other part of the beam.
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We are not reverting the beam-glow warm-up/cool-down to Retail.
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Jul 16 [19:13:15] <bigchunk1> Why not?!
Jul 16 [19:13:17] <bigchunk1> http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=77109.40
Jul 16 [19:13:36] <Zacam> Gimme a moment, and I'll answer.
Jul 16 [19:24:11] * BW_ ([email protected]) has joined #hard-light
Jul 16 [19:32:16] <Zacam> K. By the beam glow warm-up, what I mean is that we are not returning back to the Retail version of the effect, and the effect that we have currently will be appropriately scaled to the beam size of the beam it is firing. As for why we are not reverting to previous MediaVPs sizes, because it's ugly. As for "the beam looks thinner cause the white core is skinnier", that is irrelevant. +BeamWidth: for damage and targeting is already set to the Largest
Jul 16 [19:32:16] <Zacam> Retail section width, so the visible effect of either the core or the haze is irrelevant to the damage. That being said, the aformentioned beams (EG: The Sathanas, BFGreen and Mjolnir beam) will be investigated and adjusted if deemed necessary by consensus.
Jul 16 [19:34:59] <bigchunk1> "the effect that we have currently will be appropriately scaled to the beam size of the beam it is firing" what do you mean by this? 3612 size or retail size?
Jul 16 [19:36:59] <Zacam> I mean that the warm up "bulb" size will be sized to the scale of the beam so that there is a seamless transition of one to the other. Also keep in mind that for the shivan beams specifically, the Retail beams used the thruster-glow effect and scaled it well past the durable size of the actual projected beam.
Jul 16 [19:37:24] <bigchunk1> 3612 or retail?
Jul 16 [19:37:45] <bigchunk1> So you mean 3612 stays?
Jul 16 [19:38:49] <Zacam> Considering that the 3.6.10 warmup/beam-glow was scaled to the beam size, but over all both were larger than retail, the .12 beams -for the beam section widths- are the same as retail, and so the scaling of the beam glows will match to the beams themselves.
Jul 16 [19:39:34] <bigchunk1> Lol, I can't decrypt you to get the answer I want
Jul 16 [19:39:50] * Zacam sighs
Jul 16 [19:39:56] <bigchunk1> You want to keep hade's bulb sizes then?
Jul 16 [19:41:17] <Zacam> I want to keep the scaling that they have, yes. If we adjust or increase a beams width (see again, Sathanas, BFGreen, Mjolnir) then the warm-up bulb will adjust to compensate, but having a warm up effect that is 3 times the size of the outer edges it a bit ugly.
Jul 16 [19:41:53] <bigchunk1> Right, then that's what the thread is about
Jul 16 [19:42:05] <bigchunk1> I think the bulb should be larger than the beam
Jul 16 [19:42:13] <bigchunk1> Because that's how retail was
Jul 16 [19:42:22] <Zacam> It is. It's just not gigantically larger than the beam.
Jul 16 [19:42:41] * Antares is now known as v_Zalem
Jul 16 [19:42:49] * v_Zalem is now known as Nu_Zalem
Jul 16 [19:42:50] <bigchunk1> It's prettywell scaled down, and that's a big change in their design
Jul 16 [19:43:03] <bigchunk1> Feels kinda moddish
Jul 16 [19:43:32] <bigchunk1> You want to post that in the thread?
Jul 16 [19:44:26] <bigchunk1> Look at the split on the poll btw, you gota believe something's up
Jul 16 [19:44:39] <Zacam> The actual beam section widths are the same as retail. That the "inner core" doesn't seem as large should actually make the edge color sections cause the beam to stand out. And the beam-glow (again, on the previously mentioned larger beams that are still in process of being adjusted) will see a slight update to them. But the beam-glow/warmup does nothing in terms of anything at all regarding the beams width, it's targeting or it's damage.
Jul 16 [19:45:43] <bigchunk1> I'm not talking beam width anymore, i'm talking bulb size
Jul 16 [19:46:19] <bigchunk1> The bulb/width ratio has been drasticly decreased from retail or media vps
Jul 16 [19:46:25] <Zacam> And the poll had it's LARGEST collection of results PRIOR to the screen shot actually showing that Hades' beams were actually spot on to Retail sive, but now this is a discussion about the beam-GLOW (the warm up/bulb effect) which wasn't clearly dileniated in the OP or conversations until now, as it was all previously just how "the beams" (in general) were "Not Retail" which tells me your nostalgia glasses need a new prescription or you should learn
Jul 16 [19:46:25] <Zacam> the semantics of constructing your arguments better.
Jul 16 [19:47:31] <bigchunk1> Well i'm not good at arguments, I'm just trying to get a fair consensus
Jul 16 [19:47:59] <Zacam> Fair also requires being able to deliver a solidly constructed statement.
Jul 16 [19:48:10] <Zacam> At which point.
Jul 16 [19:48:14] <bigchunk1> Ok, so the bulb thing.
Jul 16 [19:48:30] <bigchunk1> Why so small? that's a design change
Jul 16 [19:48:32] <bigchunk1> and for what?
Jul 16 [19:48:35] <bigchunk1> People are split on it
Jul 16 [19:48:42] <bigchunk1> you can see arguments in the thread
Jul 16 [19:48:46] <bigchunk1> most are against it iirc
Jul 16 [19:48:52] <bigchunk1> and it's against retail
Jul 16 [19:48:53] <Zacam> The only sensible thing to do, is to close up the current thread, and make a new one with a poll that specifically targets (no pun intended) the beam-glow/bulb/warm-up effect size.
Jul 16 [19:49:14] <bigchunk1> Well, give it a day or so
Jul 16 [19:49:21] <bigchunk1> we just posted not a hour ago
Jul 16 [19:49:59] <Zacam> Invalid. I cannot take the results from a poll or a post that started about the "general" beam sizes and then have it turned around to being about the warm-up sizes when that was not -clearly- marked as being the significance of the conversation.
Jul 16 [19:50:13] <bigchunk1> I mean don't lock the thread
Jul 16 [19:50:18] <bigchunk1> So people can respond
Jul 16 [19:50:34] <bigchunk1> Say their piece and all that
For the beam glows specifically, I'd come down much more strongly on the retail side of things. Having the beam glow be significantly larger than the beam width has always been a trademark of FS beam weapons, at least in my mind. Based on those screenshots of Hades' effects in action, you can barely see where the glow ends and the beam begins.I agree, they look like Star Trek phasers or generic laser weapons now.
They've always been generic. The lasers used on the Omega in Babylon 5 had the exact same ratio of the glow ball and beam as retail, just the entire thing was smaller overall.For the beam glows specifically, I'd come down much more strongly on the retail side of things. Having the beam glow be significantly larger than the beam width has always been a trademark of FS beam weapons, at least in my mind. Based on those screenshots of Hades' effects in action, you can barely see where the glow ends and the beam begins.I agree, they look like Star Trek phasers or generic laser weapons now.
Actually, I think that this was the idea behind the new effects, glow "flows" into the beam instead of being detached.Exactly. Before, the beam ball is so big it just looks irrelevant to the beam, as if it's an afterthought. It's ****ing ugly. So I made the beam flow from the beam ball itself, so it actually looks like there's a reason for the ball.
They've always been generic. The lasers used on the Omega in Babylon 5 had the exact same ratio of the glow ball and beam as retail, just the entire thing was smaller overall.Subjective
Exactly. Before, the beam ball is so big it just looks irrelevant to the beam, as if it's an afterthought. It's ****ing ugly. So I made the beam flow from the beam ball itself, so it actually looks like there's a reason for the ball.
The ball's there because the turret has to gather plasma together in a reservoir before it shoots it off into space. It makes no sense for a tiny ball to sustain a beam that's basically the same width as it. Like I've said before, it looks more like a muzzle flash with Hades's resize than a plasma ball (which you can die by flying into, even before the beam shoots--try this in Bearbaiting)Actually, the pulsating nature of the beam glow, even after the beam fires, would suggest it is continually gathering plasma. Either way, that's as dumb of an explanation of the workings of a beam as argon only being in Sol is dumb, it's about the same level.
My opinion is just as subjective as yours, so take what you will.
There's also another thing that's been bugging me over the years, and I think this is the right topic to call on it:I personally disagree, I feel the blue into red feels really wierd and out of place and looks 'retail ugly'
I always prefered retail's Shivan beam glow color. The white\blue gave those beams a sense of being very very concentrated light, and thus very powerful. I don't know how everyone else feels about this, but I'd personally would love to have those colors back.
lol @ the variety and rigor of nitpickity for what is just a kamehameha.(http://www.hard-light.net/forums/Smileys/HLP/welcome2hlpbb.gif)
For a more non-technical view of the beam glows, I always thought that the "chargin' mah lazor" part would kind of necessitate this big honkin' ball of energy, since you were gathering together a whole bunch of pewpew to fling across space once you got to "firin' mah lazor." Having the glow sort of just flow right into the beam kind of negates that effect.
You are my hero and you know what i mean.QuoteFor a more non-technical view of the beam glows, I always thought that the "chargin' mah lazor" part would kind of necessitate this big honkin' ball of energy, since you were gathering together a whole bunch of pewpew to fling across space once you got to "firin' mah lazor." Having the glow sort of just flow right into the beam kind of negates that effect.
SHOOP DA WHOOP
(http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/8237/baaaaaaah.png)
Seriously though, im going to qoute tv-tropes here:
The Cool Ship needs an equally cool weapon. If it's a sufficiently humongous Cool Ship, it will be equipped with a Laser Beam on steroids: the Wave Motion Gun — an enormous Ray Gun that fires a massive energy beam capable of blowing away an enemy ship (in the "blow a battleship in half" sense), sometimes an entire fleet, with one shot, and maybe even blowing up an entire planet.
Wave Motion Guns usually require a significant charging period before firing and re-charging/cooldown afterwards (occasionally depicted by "Sucking In Lines")
Sucking in Lines in this case refers to the cool warmup particle insucking muzzle glow we're having. So this must be prominent, IT MUST. And it makes no physical sense ( haha physical sense in beam weapons) that the glow is less or equal in size of the beam. You have a central ball of plasma that glows outward the beam should orient its beam size towards that, therefore the brightest part of the muzzle flash. However the beam also radiates outwards but its a less concentrated form of energy so it should be less then the total glow of the plasma ball. like so =O. The overall size of the beam irregardless of what should be a fixed beam to muzzle glow ratio should be oriented toward the power level of the beam. Is it OVER 9000? Do a motherfriggin wide beam. Is it a AAA? Small beam suffices. Thus the player can easily distinguish the epicness of the beam simply by looking at its size. It is also irrelevant what ship the beam is firing. If the lilith can fire a beam that powerful LET it, it only shows how much danger a little ship like that can pose.
Then I'm good. I haven't checked in quite some time... been too busy debugging FSPort... :nervous:
I... just... don't... get it.My mind broke.
*BIG*
*small*
I don't know how to reason.
Um.. based on the dates in the thread and the dates on SVN.. I don't think those pictures are the most recent.
Mixed.. While I agree "Hades beam glows" look better than the retail ones visually, they are lacking on the "psychological effect" side of things. I mean, when a capship beam nearby your fighter is powering up, you should get the "Better get the hell out of here! NOW!" feeling. I'd be surprised if that was not the effect :v: was after when they sized them.
The massive glows are just corny. I always imagined the beams more scalpel-like.
...Let me be absolutely clear when I say this... I think you guys are the best! Zacam speant hours late one night debugging models for my mod as well as showed me a fiew tricks, Hades helped me out on bp multi when it was just getting started, and mjn well... does what mjn does which is awesome so I hope that proves my point. I just feel strongly about this ya know... I love this game. This thread is like... uh... court or something, but we can still party after.
We ARE trying to take your feedback into account as much as possible and we HAVE listened to you, so try not being so dramatic with the reaction, okay?
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Any psuedo-science conversation is exactly that, merely side conversation that is not in fact actually having any bearing on the decision, because the decision was made based on visual aesthetic, not psuedo-scientific notions.
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snipThis is the way to go.
oh yes.snipThis is the way to go.
I thought the Lilith had a single BFRed.No. It uses a LRed.
I thought the Lilith had a single BFRed.:shaking:
That would be insane. The LRed is already insane.Don't worry, I'm going to be making it larger.
I like the changes to be honest, but I do think the BFRed would look better if it were bigger.
That would be insane. The LRed is already insane.Don't worry, I'm going to be making it larger.
I like the changes to be honest, but I do think the BFRed would look better if it were bigger.W00t! Excellent! I'm so stoked for this next releaseThat would be insane. The LRed is already insane.Don't worry, I'm going to be making it larger.
I like the changes to be honest, but I do think the BFRed would look better if it were bigger.