Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Grey Wolf on May 24, 2002, 08:36:42 pm
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I know Jake Logan already made an X-wing for FS2, but I decided to make my own. I'm currently in the POF editing stage, and it should be done within a day.
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/gtdwolf/pics/xwing.gif)
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do you want my imput? if so, read on:
1. Wings spread too far.
2. Wings joined too close together, should be more vertical distance between them
3. nose is too short
4. body is a bit to fat and wings a bit too large
5. engines too small and missing the aft half of them
6. no flash supressors on the tips of the cannons
7. wings are not textured with the appropriate paint job to corrispond with the stripes.
8. cockpit doesnt show the frame work
otherwise, its pretty good.
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Originally posted by LtNarol
do you want my imput? if so, read on:
1. Wings spread too far.
2. Wings joined too close together, should be more vertical distance between them
3. nose is too short
4. body is a bit to fat and wings a bit too large
5. engines too small and missing the aft half of them
6. no flash supressors on the tips of the cannons
7. wings are not textured with the appropriate paint job to corrispond with the stripes.
8. cockpit doesnt show the frame work
otherwise, its pretty good.
[Digs out old X-wing toy and opens Modelview]
1. You're right.
2. You're right again.
3. It's just the angle.
4. It's close....
5. Oops!
6. Poly limitations; was forced to remove them.
7. Blame my horrible map-editing skills.
8. See #7.
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Probably too many polys sunk into those engines....but thats upto you :D
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I tried reducing the polys on the engines and they looked like crap.
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hi,
in this period i have a lot of real life "to do jobs" so i have really not enough time work continuosly at the Star Wars mod ( http://members.fortunecity.com/aranbanjo ) but i don't forget it and, if and when i find useful external contributes, i immediatly activate my attention. Actually i find your model interesting but with some lacks in both the modelling and the texturing stuff.
about modelling:
wrong proportions
(i suggest to download the xwamodel ( from [url]http://www.xwaupgrade.com,[/url]... it will be an *.opt(xwa format) but if interested i can tell you how to convert to dxf)
wrong laser cannons (little prob)
wrong engines (BIG prob)
about textures:
well it isnt something specific but textures with in game models are probably the most important part, and they need in your case a generale enhancement....
not all the 3d elements can be realized in the modelling part of the owrk, most of em must done by creating the "right" textures ..simply in your case textures are too "general" (expecialy for the rear half of the ship) and they don't suggest any hardware element....
well, maybe its only my opinion, btw i hope this feedback to be of some use for you...
if you succesfully manage to "tune" your model....my emali is [email protected]
cya
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Nice TI, TD, and TF. Very nice indeed!
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I redid some modeling on it:
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/gtdwolf/pics/xwing.jpg)
I fixed the guns, added rest of the engines, and readjusted the proportions. The textures, however, I have a slight problem with. My best 3D modeling programs are TS2 and Blender, and my best 2D editing programs are MSPaint and Irfanview. Hence, I cannot get good UV mapping on them, and I don't have the capability to make good maps at any reasonable amount of time. If you can get someone else to texture it, I can fix any other modeling problems in there.
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Your suppressors are the wrong shape. They should be flat on the top and bottom. Can we have a top down wiew? I think your guns are too short.
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No good 2D graphic programs? Get The Gimp!
http://www.gimp.org/win32/
IMHO it's Photoshop's equal. But free. :D
(Or at least the equal of Photoshop 4 which was the last one I've used. Except it doesn't render blue and white clouds which I miss.)
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nose still looks too short and too narrow at the front, nosecone is likewise too narrow and doesnt cover the bottom
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Here's a top-down view as rendered in TS2:
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/gtdwolf/pics/xwing2.jpg)
And I'll try that Gimp program....
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its turning out pretty cool, if you want my opinion...;)
can you post some more pics about rear and side view?
btw some other tips:
laser cannons should be litlle more thin and maybe (not sure) little longer
i have some doubts about the top part of the laser cannons (size and orientation)
the first part of the engines seems (not sure due to shadows) little out from the right orientation, i mean that they seem rotated of a very little angle, but maybe its only an impression
maybe, if polycount is not too high, you could add the "trasversal bar" in the hole at the beginning of the engines, (but it can be done with texxtures too...just if polycount isn't too high)
for the rest it seems very very good......
about textures i may help you doing them (only prob, it will be a long job since i don't have so much time) and, if you agree, once completed i would be happy to add your model to the Star Wars mod
another tip: you can easily create a z95 headhunter out of your x-wing, they are pretty similar....
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The polycount right now is about 1400 (yes, very high, I know, mainly because it's triangulated). I'll post some pics in a minute after I do some work on the R2 unit and I change the lighting.
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(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/gtdwolf/pics/xwings.jpg)
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/gtdwolf/pics/xwingf.jpg)
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/gtdwolf/pics/xwingb.jpg)
I added the transversal bars and lowered R2's polys.
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Did you glue R2 on as a child? He would make an excellent subobject to blow off...
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Originally posted by vadar_1
Did you glue R2 on as a child? He would make an excellent subobject to blow off...
It's currently in SCN format and yes, you will be able to blow him off. BTW, is there any way to make missiles not lock when a subsystem is destroyed?
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Your suppressors are at the wrong angle. Check the X-Wing models in SW.
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
It's currently in SCN format and yes, you will be able to blow him off. BTW, is there any way to make missiles not lock when a subsystem is destroyed?
Most likely your debris for that subsystem is not correct..thats the only thing I can think of
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Originally posted by vadar_1
Most likely your debris for that subsystem is not correct..thats the only thing I can think of
No... I was asking if there is a way so we can make the missiles on a ship not lock using scripting when a subsystem was destroyed.
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Originally posted by LtNarol
6. no flash supressors on the tips of the cannons
I that what those things are for? I always thought they were either barbs for stabbing other ships or things that looked like barbs for stabbing other ships to indimidate the enemy. :D
I think the x-wing looks really good, but
1. theres something wrong with the flash supressors.
2.I think there are supposed to be stripes on the wings too. If not, you should add some on anyways to make it look better.
3. I don't think the canopy is supposed to be sort of a "bubble" like that. It has metal bars on it somewhere
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Here you go, everyone: The Incom T-65 X-Wing Starfighter, with all the stripes (OK, so I'm missing two...)
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/gtdwolf/pics/incomt65.gif)
In FS2 at its SW cannon length of 12.5m.
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BTW, if anyone has access to any technical data on the X-wing, I need to know where to place the subsystems.
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wings too big, engines too small, flash supressors should be vertical not horizontal, and cut back on the detail polywise. Looking much better
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I rotated the flash supressors, but I'm not foing to make any more modeling changes. It'd take a lot of work and would involve retexturing the whole thing to fix the proportions. It's a lot more detailed and closer to the SW version than Jake Logan's, and I'm going to leave it at that. I'm going to work on the firing points and stuff now, and when finished I'll post it in a new topic. Thanks for all your comments everyone.
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:doh:
Just one more comment, doesn't really matter that much. I think that the laser cannons should be a bit longer though...
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here is a useful tech data sheet for some sw fighters, and there is the xw too.
http://spazioweb.inwind.it/joewanny/starwars/joe-starwars.html
(the html is in italian but the pdf's are in english)
according to the images the model has only few "problems":
the main body seems (to me) ok, maybe the wings are little longer in the tech sheet, or maybe its only an impression but they already are near to be perfect.
lasers are too short
your laser cannons arrives at about the beginning of the cockpit, in the data sheet they go over
the flashback suppressor are rotated of 90° (but you said you already fixed that), and they should be more thin and long (frontal view)
the laser tip after the suppressor should be longer
the r2 unit should be much more small (and textures of the dorid sucks)
you have to work a little on the thruster engines front hole...
the star wars model has, as in the data sheet, a "T" element inside the hole.
you can do it both by textures or model, personalòly i don't lòike too much the "spot" you used instead of the "T" mostly because it will make impossible to realize the "T" by textures
about textures: they are good..there is nothing "wrong" with em (except the droid that suck)..they simply aren't much detailed...if you want i may take a look on them...just send me the unwrapper templates or/and the textures and i will see what i can do (adding pieces of harware...rust...details on engines...warhead launchers...and so long)....only litlle problem..it will take to me a certain time to do that....
now, you said the model is 1400 polys..its a lot...but not so much...my models are ~700 polys NOT triangulated, so about the same i think (and xwaups models are much more detailed), just make all the lods in order to set in the tables lod0 to be seen only at very close distance...
As said, i like very much your model and i will be happy to add it to my Star Wars mod when it will be finished...
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
BTW, if anyone has access to any technical data on the X-wing, I need to know where to place the subsystems.
I don't know them all but Sensors go in the nose cone, two proton torpedo launchers underneath and slightly forward of the cockpit, reactor behind the astromech droid. Not sure about the other stuff though (Nav, comm etc)
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Proton torpedo launchers are where Black Wolf said but on the side, not under the fuselage. Navigation is what the astromech is for because there is no nav computer. Sensors are in the nosecone. Engines are pretty obvious. Weapons are pretty obvious. Shield generator is behind the astromech. The two shield projectors are on the outside of the engines on the upper wing. Power generator (reactor) is directly behind the astromech and forward of the shield generator. Servo actuator (for making wings open and close) is in the back. And that's all that the Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels says.
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I've extended the guns, altered the flash suppresors, redid the R2's skins (It now has the classic R2-D2 look), and resized the R2. Karma, I'm going to PM you the address of a ZIP file containing the model in POF format and the texs.
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Once I finish this up, all I'll need for my Evil Master Plan will be a Tie, a Tie Advanced, a YT-1300, and The Trench. Then we'll see if the Force is strong in any of you......
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Current status:
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/gtdwolf/pics/incomt65-2.gif)
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Those wing decals do not look right at all... I thought they were just stripes... but I cant find my X-wing model (RL one)
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That shape is supposed to be there. I am short two stripes though.
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Yeah, you need one more stripe on either wing. And if you can, make the part behind the R2 look like it has exposed machinery. Right now it's all covered up with regular grey armor and that's not how it should be.
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Talk to Karma about the texs. I sent it to him to have the texs adjusted.
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i've just received your mex greywolf...btw, as i can see from that pic... great work;)
you will hear my news as soon as possible
i've sent my models (ti-tf-td) to galactic emperor...he created the weapons and added the sounds to the old sw mod (the one with the old tf, xw, isd and others) in order to make a single file out of these...as i will finish the work on my ta and your xw i will send em too to him
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NICE!
I just remember, I have my X-Wing model somwhere on the HD.
I'll look around for it...;)
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Originally posted by KARMA
i've just received your mex greywolf...btw, as i can see from that pic... great work;)
you will hear my news as soon as possible
i've sent my models (ti-tf-td) to galactic emperor...he created the weapons and added the sounds to the old sw mod (the one with the old tf, xw, isd and others) in order to make a single file out of these...as i will finish the work on my ta and your xw i will send em too to him
You can alter the UV mapping coordinates on any of the subobjects except for the R2's planar mapping. If you could also make a destroyed R2 skin we could put a destroyed subobject on it too.
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BTW, make sure you send it back to me so I can get it into a better POF before you send it to GE.
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sure...btw i think it will take to me at least one or two weeks to finish the work..just to advise you...
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Wait to start. I have to do a bit of editing on the model because this is the one that had the clipping problems.
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Hmmm... the clipping is not as bad now, but it looks like the R2 unit is having some serious problems....it's where most of the clipping is centered....
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i taked a look at your model (a fast look btw)
my first suggestion is to make simplier the "nose" in general and expecially the top part of the sensor system (the first part of the nose)
this for some reasons: mainly i think it will look better and it will be cleaner (reducing the amount of possible clipping probs) and you will cut about 30-50 polys and have polys that may work even if not triangulized.
you can cut some other polys by reducing the detail of the sphere of the r2 unit (its too detailed for being so small and with smooth shaders it will still look good)
its a bit strange that you have clipping probs on the r2unit...the area seems well done....maybe you used booleans? (object union)
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i still think the wings are too damn short and when is this thing gonna be downloadable????
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I'm redoing a good deal of the mesh as we speak to get it into a lower-poly and less-subobject setup. I figure it's some wierd hierarchy thing, because when I put the main hull as subobj #3, it gets clipped instead of the guns and R2....
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Well instead of the R2 you could give it the flowerpot dome of the R5 instead. Older model droid but less polys.
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I've been watching the progress and comparing it to Darth_Maul's X-wing that I and Karma have. I definitely think you should use custom full-body textures instead of tiled armor, to make it look more movie-realistic.
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I've stripped down a lot of the polys off of the guns and main hull while adding enhancements, and it should be down to ~900 polys by my estimate.
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
I'm redoing a good deal of the mesh as we speak to get it into a lower-poly and less-subobject setup. I figure it's some wierd hierarchy thing, because when I put the main hull as subobj #3, it gets clipped instead of the guns and R2....
i know what you'r talking about, it happened to me too once
try to don't set a mesh like a subobject with its own light, but simply add the mesh to the main group
it wouldn't be targettable but it should work
something like:
(you used)
-main hull+light
..........-droid+light
..........-detail+light
..........-other groups
(try instead)
-main hull+droid+other meshes+light
...............-detail+light
...............-thruster+light
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In terms of FS2 subsystems, I recommend the following:
Sensors - tip of the nose
Communications - just forward of the cockpit
Navigation - The Astromech
Engines - Just behind the astromech on the top
Weapons - at the base of the fighter, below the wings
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I finished my enhancements and simplifications to the design, and it's clocking in at 799 polys in one subobject (Good, aren't I?)
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/gtdwolf/pics/incomt65-3.gif)
Karma, the zip file I gave you the address to has been updated to this version. Also, the maps on this version are easier to modify, because I used a cubic UV mapping setup with untiled maps. GE, I'd enhance the texs, but as I said before, I don't have any good 2D editing programs. The only flaws on this version is the polys on the gun are reversed, but that doesn't really effect the model that much because they are small closed objects.
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Send me that Oh please send me that! ;7
email: [email protected]
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You'll get it as soon as Karma is done with the maps...
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Clarification on above response: It will be released with the SW MOD when Karma completes his modifications of the maps.
I've made some small enhancements on the model since the last update:[list=1]
- Fixed the normals on the flash suppressors.
- Got the normals for the guns all pointed the same way, it's backwards but it isn't really noticeable.
- Discovered that 3D Exploration keeps on triangulating my models when I don't want it two (shoots venomous glare at Right Hemisphere)
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/gtdwolf/pics/xwing.gif)
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/gtdwolf/pics/incomt65-3.gif)
:yes2:;):yes:
Now THIS is progress.
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Any suggestions?
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Yeah - do an A-Wing! :D:D:D
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downloading it now...
just a point...
did you already tested the pof in fs2?
you know.. if you will have to apply some changes to the model in order to fix some problems the uvmaps i will aplly will be almost lost....
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Yeah, I've tested it, but don't worry, no matter what modifications I need to make to get it to work, I'll do it.
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God, I hope you are going to do a Tie Fighter...
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*Jumps up and down whilst chanting*
SQUINT! SQUINT!! SQUINT!!! :D:D
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I think I'll try my hand at the A-wing next....
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TIE Fighter has been done by somebody. Forgot who tho.
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That's really good Grey Wolf. Now screw Karma and let us download it! :D
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OK, OK. I'll throw the TBL in....
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There. http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/gtdwolf/x-wing.zip
It's not complete yet (the TBL entry still needs a bit more work)
It's designed to work with the Port.
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Port=:thepimp:
Why isn't the R2 a submodel? Make it destroyable! Make it rotate!
And get someone to texture it!
But not bad for a from-scratch model.
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instead of starting a new model,.....just add all the lods to the xw first....:rolleyes: :D :D
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The reason the R2 isn't a subobject is the Evil Clipping Problems. If someone could fix that, I'll make it a subobject. Karma is working on the texs. Also, I'm figuring out how to do the LODs without starting them from scratch or having them look like crap.
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
having them look like crap.
this is not a problem...
i mean..at the lod1 distances it is impossible to see all the details of a model and you don't need to, since you see lod1 while flying and playing..it will be just an object to fly against/with..no more no less...just make it good enough but not too much:), a good rule is to make it with about 50% of the lod0 polys and the successive lods again 50% of the polys of the precedent lod, with the last lod not more than, uh about 15 polys
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I got it down to ~470 by trimming down on the base model and the guns. I'm planning on about 450 polys for the LOD1, and you've already seen the 799 polys for LOD0.
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Originally posted by CODEDOG ND
TIE Fighter has been done by somebody. Forgot who tho.
I found one for FS1 by Darth Maul, but I can't get it to work with FS2. Is there a difference in the POF files between FS1 and 2, and if so, what can I do to make it compatible?
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Originally posted by r0nin
I found one for FS1 by Darth Maul, but I can't get it to work with FS2. Is there a difference in the POF files between FS1 and 2, and if so, what can I do to make it compatible?
Models are different. You could try opening it in ModelView32's editor and saving it as a FS2 pof. The table file may need changes too.
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i've already done a tie fighter http://members.fortunecity.com/aranbanjo
greywolf, i will probably cut the "hole" in the sensor system.... mainly because i don't like the way it appears and more important to have a better texture result (i will make it by textures)
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keep up the good work. :) and keep me informed too ;)
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Hehe - for a challenge, try your hand at the TIE Defender! :D:D:D
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already done too :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by EdrickV
Models are different. You could try opening it in ModelView32's editor and saving it as a FS2 pof. The table file may need changes too.
Thanks, that did it. I'm looking forward to this completed model by Grey Wolf, and KARMA's stuff, too!
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Originally posted by KARMA
i've already done a tie fighter http://members.fortunecity.com/aranbanjo
greywolf, i will probably cut the "hole" in the sensor system.... mainly because i don't like the way it appears and more important to have a better texture result (i will make it by textures)
Okay, trimming it down now. I'll throw up the new POF in a few minutes.
EDIT: BTW, do you mind if I don't throw the UV mapping on? It'll save time.
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i'll redo anyway the uvmaps, so its not important if you don't do them, and about the model modifications, i've already done them .....they are very very little, so if it is ok for you to have someone else putting his hands on your model we can maintain the version i actually have (mainly because i'm already texturing those parts)..maybe i'll upload it tomorrow and send you the link so you can check it
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OK, got it fixed anyway. I'll get the LOD1 thrown together and start on the LOD2.
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Originally posted by KARMA
already done too :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
The T/D? Who's done it? You?
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Originally posted by Killfrenzy
The T/D? Who's done it? You?
well, i posted a link some replys ago:rolleyes:
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Clarification on above post: I meant that it's alright that you fixed the model.
Anyway, I'm just a bit stuck on the LOD2 (third most detailed LOD). I'm thinking of replacing the engines with 6 sided cylinders to save polys. What do you think?
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you can do whatever you want with lod 2, just make it of about 150 polys and give it a shape that remembers an xw;)
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Okay then - new challenge:
Victory class Star Destroyer.
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Busy! No more suggestions! I'm working on this, a Z-95 and I have plans for an A-Wing. No more suggestions.
I also did some research on the speed. Apparently, 1 MGLT is equal to 1m/s, and I adjusted the acceleration to match the X-wing to that of it in the other games, and adjusted the overclock speed and HP/shields.
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if you take a chronometer you will discover that a tf (100mglt) goes at about 107 m/s on XVT (LEC's games physic is ..ehm:rolleyes: )
btw don't spend too much for tables , if you want my opinion. flight parameters must be balanced and tuned in further development to make em as near as possible to both sw universe and sw games experience
btw..
textures are growing pretty cool..just little slow (i've done about 15% of all the job) but cool, but obviously the final evaluation must be done on the game engine ...
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I read it on some site where people did big, long analysises on Star Wars because they have far too much time on their hands.
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I just read through the entry on starwars.com. It's information made me trim down on the missile bank to 6 Treb shots (there are 6 proton torpedoes on the movie ships), raise the weapons energy, and increase the reactor power.
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Would you mind posting pics of your progress :D