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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bobboau on September 04, 2011, 12:31:48 am

Title: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Bobboau on September 04, 2011, 12:31:48 am
OK, so the problem is that we are either spending too much money or we are not collecting enough taxes. now given that this is the government we are talking about clearly it cannot possibly be spending enough money, so the only other option is to collect more taxes. but as things are now, we are already sending a huge chunk of money off and not getting much back for it, but then i realized something, something that changed my perspective on the situation immediately, all we have to do is find a segment of the population that can afford to pay the additional taxes with out it affecting them, and there is one such group, no it's not the rich, it's the religions, you see all religious organizations are tax exempt, but, all (or most at least) claim to be th earthly representatives of some sort of all powerful all knowing super being that wants them to succeed. now if that is the case, then this entity would not allow it's representatives to fail, no matter what the situation this thing would ensure that they had the means to overcome any and all hardships. so that means we have been doing this **** totally wrong! rather than making them tax exempt we should be taxing the **** out of religions, make em pay 2, 3, 10 times as much as everyone else, no matter how much they get taxed their god(s) will make sure they can pay it and have enough left over to build that new mega-church or theme park. we could fund health care, feed an infinitely exponentially growing population, build orbital elevators, teraform Mars and spread throughout the cosmos and never have to worry about funding a gain, just leave it up to that god. as an added bonus we will finally be able to figure out which religion was the correct one, as all of the false religions will not have an actual god looking out for them and will utterly collapse, fortunately that will only happen to the ones that are based on complete bull****.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: MP-Ryan on September 04, 2011, 12:35:40 am
Who did you just have a conversation about religion with? =)
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Commander Zane on September 04, 2011, 12:37:42 am
Fund it!
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Mongoose on September 04, 2011, 01:00:03 am
Who did you just have a conversation about religion with? =)
Something alcoholic, no doubt. :p
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Bobboau on September 04, 2011, 01:01:14 am
nope on both counts.

middle of the night, not talking to anyone.
don't drink.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Scourge of Ages on September 04, 2011, 01:14:22 am
Bobboau, I agree with your idea completely. And I am religious, but the thing you said is very true.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Bobboau on September 04, 2011, 01:25:16 am
excellent! I don't get why no one has thought of this before, it's so simple!
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Mars on September 04, 2011, 01:28:39 am
(full scale revolution?)  :nervous:
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Bobboau on September 04, 2011, 01:29:50 am
"Fund it!"

with religious tax dollars!
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Nuke on September 04, 2011, 01:49:48 am
tax the crap out of the bible thumpers for all i care. especially the big money types, the ones that need multi million dollar churches and missionary programs that try to convert the muslims, hindus and buddhists of the world into raging asshats. they obviously dont know how to use that money for the good of the people so they might as well level out the national debt.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: achtung on September 04, 2011, 02:24:07 am
While your post is hilariously extreme, I do think that there should not be a rule that exempts religious organizations from taxes.

Jesus agrees with me, you know:

Quote
Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." -Jesus Christ, in Mark 12:13-17; also Matthew 22:15-22 and Luke 20:20-26.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: FireSpawn on September 04, 2011, 03:50:27 am
Bring the hammer down on Scientology, that "religion" is 90% based on seperating people from their money and property (the other 10% is being dicks to its poorer followers). They say they are a legitimate religion, let their intergalactic warlord help fund them with his space credits out of his own subspace pockets.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: NeoKnight on September 04, 2011, 10:13:07 pm
Bobboau, if I understand you correctly, what you're suggesting essentially amounts to discrimination (dubbed "persecution" by many religious) through the medium of taxation. And not a single religion in history has been divinely protected from persecution. The Jews got it (the holocaust), the Catholics got it (under the reign of Nero), the Muslims got it (through the crusades), and I think just about everyone else got it at one point or another. None of these groups were the beneficiaries of any supernatural intervention that saved them from the pit of destruction. Given this track record, I don't think such a miracle is going to happen now. More likely your plan would just tax religion into ruin. The various denominations would still survive (no amount of tax can kill a thought or ideal), but they'd be deprived of the means to bring any benefit to society. Because let's be fair; many churches are active in humanitarian work around the world. I think the ultimate outcome of your tax policy would be the amputation of the humanitarian function, leaving a web of scattered faithful who are reduced to holding worship services on their own private property. That's not the kind of world I want to live in.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Aardwolf on September 04, 2011, 10:26:47 pm
Are you kidding, that would be awesome!

:trollface:
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Bobboau on September 04, 2011, 11:08:50 pm
not a single religion in history has been divinely protected from persecution.
funny how that works out isn't it?

your plan would just tax religion into ruin.
oh no, we wouldn't want that would we.  ;7

they'd be deprived of the means to bring any benefit to society.
it'd be such a completely different world.

That's not the kind of world I want to live in.
meh, different strokes for different folks.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: karajorma on September 04, 2011, 11:32:09 pm
While I'm not saying that they should be taxed into oblivion, I can't see any good reason why they shouldn't be taxed just like any other business.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Mr. Vega on September 05, 2011, 03:08:24 am
Just go back to highly progressive taxes. Most of the gains of the past three decades have been in the top 5% so that's where the revenue lies, and a more equal distribution of wealth will increase consumer spending power, bringing employment and incomes up to meet demand and boosting revenues further. It's not rocket science.

Quote
we will finally be able to figure out which religion was the correct one, as all of the false religions will not have an actual god looking out for them and will utterly collapse, fortunately that will only happen to the ones that are based on complete bull****.
I can think of a few things that might go wrong with this plan.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Black Wolf on September 05, 2011, 03:25:16 am
Religions should be taxed, no doubt about it in my mind, but there does have to be some method by which good works should be exempt from it. The solution, to me, seems simple. Split the religion up. Force, for example, the catholic church, to found "The Catholic Australian Charity", a separate body that is governed by the strict rules that cover charities, with the religion as its primary source of funds. The church is then taxed like any other business, with its donations to its own charity (a separate institution at this point, remember) tax exempt. So the money they send to the vatican to buy expensive works of art and fund swiss guards and whatnot will be taxed, while the money they use to fund actual good works would be tax free. Simple.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: NeoKnight on September 05, 2011, 12:40:18 pm
not a single religion in history has been divinely protected from persecution.
funny how that works out isn't it?

Indeed. What's more funny is that most of those religions are still here.

While I'm not saying that they should be taxed into oblivion, I can't see any good reason why they shouldn't be taxed just like any other business.

AFAIK most religions are funded by donations from their respective followers, and I have yet to see a business run entirely on donations. I do see how a business model could be applied to a church though, in the respect that money is given for services rendered (literally). To be honest I have mixed opinions about the policy of religious taxation, but my gut reaction is to side against it. I'll have to think about it some more though.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Ravenholme on September 05, 2011, 03:38:51 pm
excellent! I don't get why no one has thought of this before, it's so simple!

I'm pretty sure it has, it always falls through for some reason though.

Religious organisations being tax exempt has always struck me as ridiculous, but I don't think it'd bring in as much as you think it would.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: FireSpawn on September 05, 2011, 07:00:13 pm
excellent! I don't get why no one has thought of this before, it's so simple!

I'm pretty sure it has, it always falls through for some reason though.

Religious organisations being tax exempt has always struck me as ridiculous, but I don't think it'd bring in as much as you think it would.
Would like to point out the Pope's solid gold throne and wizard stick.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: NeoKnight on September 05, 2011, 08:01:57 pm
We're talking about the national debt here. Seriously. Even if the Pope auctioned off the Vatican and everything in it, the funds gained would be like a drop in the bucket of our astronomical debt.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: karajorma on September 05, 2011, 08:18:42 pm
Still, it wouldn't hurt to tax them.

AFAIK most religions are funded by donations from their respective followers, and I have yet to see a business run entirely on donations. I do see how a business model could be applied to a church though, in the respect that money is given for services rendered (literally). To be honest I have mixed opinions about the policy of religious taxation, but my gut reaction is to side against it. I'll have to think about it some more though.

The only reason you don't see businesses run that way is cause no one is going to give Coca Cola money and then not get a Coke. :p But it is worth pointing out that many religions make massive amounts of money by investing the donations they get.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_and_finances_of_the_Church_of_England

Quote
Meanwhile, the Church moved the majority of its income-generating assets (which in the past included a great deal of land, but today mostly take the form of financial stocks and bonds) out of the hands of individual clergy and bishops to the care of a body called the Church Commissioners, which uses these funds to pay a range of non-parish expenses, including clergy pensions and the expenses of cathedrals and bishops' houses. These funds amount to around £3.9 billion and generate income of around £164 million each year (as of 2003), around a fifth of the Church's overall income.

Now you do have to wonder why income generated from stocks and bonds is taxed for private individuals or businesses but not for someone doing that.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Polpolion on September 05, 2011, 08:25:17 pm
I do think religious institutions shouldn't be tax-exempt, but I'm just going to assume that the debt relief idea was posed facetiously because it's so absurd.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Mars on September 05, 2011, 08:32:55 pm
Not really. It's a significant industry, I would guess in the billions. It wouldn't fill in the national debt, no, but it would help.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Polpolion on September 05, 2011, 08:53:41 pm
Not really. It's a significant industry, I would guess in the billions. It wouldn't fill in the national debt, no, but it would help.

Yes, it would help in the same way that finding a nickel on the ground helps one buy a nice TV.

edit: well no, it's not even close to being like that but you know what I mean
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Mars on September 05, 2011, 08:57:31 pm
More than that I think; IDK about elsewhere in the states, but even Colorado, with a relatively high atheist population is home to many, many mega-churches. I can't seem to find a viable statistic about how much religion pulls in, in the United States - I would suppose because it's not really tracked.

It would be like not taxing something like can manufacturing. Yes, taxing churches by itself doesn't solve it; completely dismantling the military won't solve it. Anything that will solve it will involve changing many things.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Polpolion on September 05, 2011, 08:59:40 pm
I dunno, Bob claimed to have `solved' the debt and when I skimmed his wall 'o text I only saw things about taxing religious institutions.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: StarSlayer on September 05, 2011, 09:16:50 pm
Switch the entire nation over into a PMC

(http://www.pixies.iinet.net.au/icon_0.jpg)
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Bobboau on September 05, 2011, 09:19:22 pm
I dunno, Bob claimed to have `solved' the debt and when I skimmed his wall 'o text I only saw things about taxing religious institutions.
yes, you tax the everliving hell out of them so the only way they could possibly survive is through divine intervention, when that happens you tax them even more,keep this cycle going until god is singlehandedly paying you so much money that it pays off the national debt.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: NeoKnight on September 05, 2011, 09:27:53 pm
I dunno, Bob claimed to have `solved' the debt and when I skimmed his wall 'o text I only saw things about taxing religious institutions.
yes, you tax the everliving hell out of them so the only way they could possibly survive is through divine intervention, when that happens you tax them even more,keep this cycle going until god is singlehandedly paying you so much money that it pays off the national debt.

Yes, well, I tried my best to explain earlier why this wouldn't really work...but at this point I'm half convinced you're just being facetious.  :wtf:
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: WeatherOp on September 05, 2011, 10:26:26 pm
I actually could see a use in this. I wouldn't mind seeing the big churches go out and maybe just maybe We'd see Christians become more godly.

Ofcourse, wouldn't a good number of low income churches pull out a return? :p
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Bobboau on September 05, 2011, 10:31:26 pm
you're just being facetious.
bah, unpossible! :|

(http://www.hexellent.com/files/80/trollthread.jpg)
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: NeoKnight on September 05, 2011, 10:58:28 pm
lulz...point taken, my good sir. I sometimes come to expect too much from HLP, but then I have to remember Poe's Law. :p
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Bobboau on September 05, 2011, 11:03:00 pm
you would not believe how long I have waited for an appropriate situation to use that image in.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: NeoKnight on September 06, 2011, 12:00:51 am
Well, as the Christian religion teaches us, there's a time for everything.  :warp:
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: watsisname on September 06, 2011, 01:12:28 pm
A+ thread, thanks Bob! :yes:
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: qazwsx on September 06, 2011, 01:27:06 pm
A+ thread, thanks Bob! :yes:
AAAAAAAAA+++++ troll, would read again.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: FireSpawn on September 06, 2011, 02:13:45 pm
Masterful use of trollskillz.
+10000 Trollpoints
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Turambar on September 06, 2011, 03:11:38 pm
Oh, I actually support the bleeding dry of religious institutions.  Let them live like their prophets.
Title: Re: I just solved the national debt
Post by: Bobboau on September 06, 2011, 05:14:56 pm
well, it's not like I wouldn't like to see it happen but what I posted is obliviously silly.