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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: ShivanSpS on September 06, 2011, 03:03:46 am

Title: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: ShivanSpS on September 06, 2011, 03:03:46 am: Im playing FS2 since 1999 and i never see that lol...

Last mission, no cutscenes, just a no debrifing :wtf: video coming this way soon :P
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: karajorma on September 06, 2011, 03:25:41 am: It's a known bug.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Enigmatic Entity on September 06, 2011, 05:01:16 am: lol, I got this as well when I first played SCP FS2, since I didn't have the videos...quite an anti-climax, I must say.... :) Of course, you are never meant to see the "debriefing" ;)
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Woolie Wool on September 06, 2011, 05:03:56 pm: Gray Wolf, savior of Capella (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=450.0)
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: ShivanSpS on September 06, 2011, 06:06:37 pm: The supernova happened, but no debrief...
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: headdie on September 06, 2011, 06:53:11 pm: its a long standing bug (pilot code?) where by the ending cinimatics don't trigger and the game behaves like normal taking you to the debrief screen instead, but as you are not supposed to get a debrief for that mission :v: didn't fill it in so it's blank
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Alex Heartnet on September 06, 2011, 07:38:11 pm: I have encounted this bug my fair share of times. I end up just watching the ending on Youtube.

Perhaps we could put something in the debriefing that tells people something like 'If you can see this debriefing, that means the ending video is not being played properly'. Although technically that would be changing retail, you aren't supposed to see the message anyway...
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: jr2 on September 06, 2011, 08:34:54 pm: zomg some people really take preserving retail too far.

... :nervous:

Is patch 1.20 non-canon??
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Zacam on September 06, 2011, 08:56:38 pm: If you mean the FS2 Retail Patch to version 1.20 that should be the final word on Canonicity.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 06, 2011, 09:20:34 pm: Zacam, I think jr2 was being sarcastic here.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: jr2 on September 07, 2011, 08:56:12 am: +1 cookie to MatthTheGeek

Yes, I was being sarcastic.

Retail preservation should be limited to what was obviously the intention of :v: when writing FS1/2 IMHO... so if you can fix a bug, great. If it changes gameplay because :v: had to make a quick hack around the issue, try to re-capture how the mission would have played if :v: had been able to fix the bug before release.

My 2c
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Woolie Wool on September 07, 2011, 05:01:26 pm: The issue is that we are not Volition, and thus any guess we may make as to their intentions is just that--a guess.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Mongoose on September 07, 2011, 05:07:00 pm: Except in the case of something like Their Finest Hour, where we have ships that should be beam-freed but don't fire, and a clumsily-disabled Colossus that never follows its waypoints and thus contradicts the mission dialog. :p

But seriously, I'd say a missing debriefing qualifies as a legitimate bug, since :v: obviously wanted the mission to end one of two ways. We can remove the supernova trigger being dependent on that one cruiser being destroyed and not change how the mission plays out in the least.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: mjn.mixael on September 07, 2011, 05:08:53 pm: Quote from: Mongoose on September 07, 2011, 05:07:00 pm
We can remove the supernova trigger being dependent on that one cruiser being destroyed and not change how the mission plays out in the least.

The mission doesn't need a debrief because it should never end with a debrief.. However, I have wondered why don't do what I quoted.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: ShivanSpS on September 07, 2011, 07:54:55 pm: Heres is the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6YlGu9ecaw
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: LoneKnight on September 08, 2011, 12:00:32 am: Quote from: Alex Heartnet on September 06, 2011, 07:38:11 pm
I end up just watching the ending on Youtube.

Aww man. That's just sad.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Firstdragon34 on September 08, 2011, 11:48:05 am: I've ran into the no debriefing a couple of times myself, and it feels weird. I wish command would say something heart enlightning.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: BlueFlames on September 08, 2011, 12:56:40 pm: If memory serves, there's no AWOL debriefing for that mission either, which is an oversight, since the player shouldn't be jumping out, prior to the supernova starting.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: LordPomposity on September 08, 2011, 03:07:13 pm: There's also no failure debriefing for the previous mission, something the player can actually see even if there are no bugs.

Oopsie.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Mongoose on September 08, 2011, 06:54:56 pm: Okay, so :v: apparently broke a few basic FREDding rules.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Firstdragon34 on September 08, 2011, 07:08:38 pm: Apparently, the :v: ran out of money or they got lazy! Ah, well. That was in 1999.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: deathfun on September 08, 2011, 07:45:57 pm: But the only people who find out about these things are the people failing the mission
So well uh, stop failing the mission
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Firstdragon34 on September 08, 2011, 07:57:27 pm: We're not failing the mission! Just. . .improvising. Its slightly unnerving to have a massive nuclear fusion wave coming toward you.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: ShivanSpS on September 08, 2011, 08:25:28 pm: In Their Finest Hour, the beams does unlock on the Sobek, but ONLY in campaign mode, as a mission on the tech room it does not. Later on it seems to be never shooting at the Shivan cruisers, but i think its because never gets visual on them on the beam turret. The Aeolus never unlocks anything, and if it does the mission will be too easy, maybe it should unlock only for the Lilith, it will still get his ass kick if the player does not intervine, but firepower is definitely NEEDED at this part.

Also what about the shivan freighters? it should be 4, but i only see 3.

And there are a lot of those things around, like the Thebes... Sobek? i think he meant to be a Typhoon, but how i could be sure? The Typhoon will still gets his ass kick by the Demon... and i think it could shoot two beams at it.

On the final mission, what about the Lemnos sending a "now proceding to disengage and depart" from the tumb lol. also i think there should be MORE things on it.... give the player a reason to "stay back so others may reach the node", sometimes i think this game was rushed on the end and some things where left unfinished.

Why not to make a list and vote for "official" changes? there no reason of why we cant have a "improved" and "original" versions of the FS2 campaign distributed with FSO. And if you want to keep only one why no add options to play original or improved versions of the missions when you going to play a mission that there is an improved version of it available? like when we choose to go to SOC.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: mjn.mixael on September 08, 2011, 09:06:28 pm: Quote from: ShivanSpS on September 08, 2011, 08:25:28 pm
Why not to make a list and vote for "official" changes? there no reason of why we cant have a "improved" and "original" versions of the FS2 campaign distributed with FSO. And if you want to keep only one why no add options to play original or improved versions of the missions when you going to play a mission that there is an improved version of it available? like when we choose to go to SOC.

This has been suggested and rarely goes over well. There's too many differing opinions. At least over things that are not absolutely, unarguably bugs.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: ShivanSpS on September 08, 2011, 09:09:47 pm: That means the decicion need to be done by a small number of people.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: mjn.mixael on September 08, 2011, 09:11:07 pm: Quote from: ShivanSpS on September 08, 2011, 09:09:47 pm
That means the decicion need to be done by a small number of people.

:wtf:

I wish you luck with that.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Commander Zane on September 08, 2011, 09:15:38 pm: How were the decisions for ST:R done? The FS2 campaign's good enough that it doesn't need an FS2:R, but it's pretty obvious that decisions were made on what to do the same and what to do differently when ST:R was made.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: mjn.mixael on September 08, 2011, 09:20:58 pm: ST:R is a special case. It doesn't claim to be canon. In fact it's advertised as the communities take on :v:'s originally confusing story.

The only way to add things like new debriefs without people getting heated is an FS2:R which claims to improve upon, but not replace the original (Like ST:R).
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: SpardaSon21 on September 08, 2011, 09:32:16 pm: I think a FS2:R would be great. A lot of :V: missions just aren't that good, like A Game of Tag where the player is stuck in a Ulysses with piss-poor armament and a cap-ship with TAG-slaved beams and Mystery of Trinity where you fly around a bunch of waypoints for most of the mission.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Commander Zane on September 08, 2011, 09:36:38 pm: Those really can't be helped. A Game of TAG is meant to put you in a testing enviroment going wrong on purpose, and Mystery of the Trinity is a recon mission, one where you actually do more than just fly around a bunch of waypoints.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: SpardaSon21 on September 08, 2011, 10:21:26 pm: And I'm saying the mission sucks. You're trapped in an outdated Ulysses armed with default primary weaponry and a bank of crappy TAG-A missiles trying to defend a warship that can't defend itself because the gunners forgot to disable the TAG slaving and a defenseless AWACS. This is all in a weapons test that takes place inside hostile territory because Command said so. Are you saying there's no way to improve it?
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Droid803 on September 08, 2011, 10:25:51 pm: At least they could have been kind enough to give us a second subach bank instead of a Prom-R which is utterly worthless against Shivans.
that, and not forcing us to fire dumbfires with a long reload time from a fighter who's secondary banks that alternate and the points like over ten meters apart.

You're not even fighting the Shivans, you're fighting with your ****ing worthless equipment.

I can complete the entire campaign on insane...except for TAG. Hell I can't beat it on easy. I 'k all the shivans every time cause screw artificial difficulty.
Its like all those other games I ragequit because they fix your camera at horrible angles so you can't see things properly :/
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Commander Zane on September 08, 2011, 10:32:31 pm: Quote from: SpardaSon21 on September 08, 2011, 10:21:26 pm
And I'm saying the mission sucks. You're trapped in an outdated Ulysses armed with default primary weaponry and a bank of crappy TAG-A missiles trying to defend a warship that can't defend itself because the gunners forgot to disable the TAG slaving and a defenseless AWACS. This is all in a weapons test that takes place inside hostile territory because Command said so. Are you saying there's no way to improve it?
The only offensive weapons at that point are the Subach and Prometheus R. Good luck improving your choice of weapons.

And surprisingly, hitting ships with TAG-A's, Ulysses or not, isn't that difficult, keep which missile bank is going to fire next to memory, and compensate your point of fire.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Zacam on September 08, 2011, 11:11:09 pm: Any FS:R project will be as a mod. One which I wish the best of luck to whomever has the gumption to tackle and accomplish.

There is only so far that the FSU can go in that direction. As for End Game not having a fail debrief...well, the video that is supposed to play IS the fail debrief. So I'd rather actually fix the real bug of those not playing properly like they should. And the Hinton is a non issue in the MediaVPs because it was given it's own way-point at the node to prevent being rammed by the Iceni, which is technically a violation, but one that took place well before I came aboard. So if it doesn't survive, well...no idea what to tell you.

(It's worth pointing out that Difficulty levels are are different for everybody. I actually find Insane to simply be "Hard" now, unless I'm playing with Fury AI enabled)
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Mongoose on September 08, 2011, 11:56:51 pm: If you can't beat A Game of TAG on Easy, you're doing it wrong. :p

Also, Mystery of the Trinity was one of the most fantastically atmospheric missions in the retail campaign.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: deathfun on September 09, 2011, 12:25:31 am: I think FS2:R would be an excellent idea

If it's done as a parody of the original Campaign.
"Incoming jump signature, hos- fuuuuu dropped my coffee"

Or when the Sath jumps in from the Knossos, you have one of your wingmen singing this song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVtaC2qMR0M
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: karajorma on September 09, 2011, 12:56:53 am: I actually liked A Game of Tag. :p
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: headdie on September 09, 2011, 01:14:23 am: Game of TAG is a frustrating mission at times but it makes a mission that is purely about setting the mood for the arrival of the sath a little more interesting.

On FS:R/FS2:R it would have my support.

deathfun, if you haven't already go look up Just Another Day
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Black Wolf on September 09, 2011, 01:26:24 am: Any update of FS would fall over at the voice acting stage. Little bugfixes are one thing, but frankly, changing major parts of missions (Like the equipment available in TAG) is not going to work with the existing VA, and losing that would be tragic.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: deathfun on September 09, 2011, 02:35:48 am: Quote
deathfun, if you haven't already go look up Just Another Day

I have not, and I just did
This is going to be good. Thanks for this

I need to browse for new campaign mods more often... well... start anyhow
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: ShivanSpS on September 09, 2011, 11:39:39 am: In my opinion, the changes must remain minimal, and the bugfixing must be done, a game this old cant have mission design bugs.

From what i remember now:
Bugs:
*General:
-Stealth ist really working on the Pegasus, last time i tried AI launched harpoons and hornets at me.

*A game of tag:
-sometimes the Deimos doest shoot at your marked target, even if its in range and beams facing it.

*Bearbaiting:
-Phoenicia must die or not?

*Their finniest hour:
-The Sobek does not unlock beams when you re play it as a mission on the tech room, it does in campaign mode.

*COT2
-No fail debrief

*Apocalypse:
-No cutscenes
-No supernova
-Lemnos sending a msg as "command" even if its dead.

Changes that must be consider at my estimation:
*Bearbaiting:
-Thebes must be a Typhoon, all reinforcement wings arriving at this point must come out of the Thebes fighterbay. And the Thebes must be positioned where the Demon can shoot it with 2 LREDs.

*Their Finniest Hour:
-Adjust Sobek position so it can fire its beam at the cruisers
-Beam free the Aeolus as the Lilith enters the battle. As the Lilith enters it gets in a head-on battle with the Aeolus, its stupid for the Aeolus to not fire back.
-The Colossus is disabled because if its moving it may destroy the Sath, as it happen some times in multi in PXO era. But just remove the disabled thing and put him to stay still, the disabled thing its confusing. Also ill like to see the Colossus to shoot the Sath a few times before dies, even if out of range.
-Adjust Colossus/Command dialog, i can never hear the whole dialog before the Colossus dying off.

*Apocalypse:
-Add more bombers wings, the player may run out of enemy's at the end, that shouldn't be happening, in the video the Shivans are fighting to the end.

Mayor Changes:
-Add more allied ships to "Apocalypse" mainly because there should be more ships at the end that could reach the node, and with more bombers wings attacking them, so the player may decide about jumping out or fight to the end "so others may reach the node".
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Commander Zane on September 09, 2011, 11:47:25 am: Talking about bugfixing and the FS2 campaign is lol.
All the table quirks with Vasudan and Shivan bombers and their overclocks?

You'll get the same results mentioning those as you would get from punching a kodiak in the face.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Firstdragon34 on September 09, 2011, 12:17:36 pm: What would be really cool would be to explore the Shivan's backstory. Who created them? And why? I'm trying to type up a story as we speak.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: deathfun on September 09, 2011, 01:31:21 pm: Quote from: Firstdragon34 on September 09, 2011, 12:17:36 pm
What would be really cool would be to explore the Shivan's backstory. Who created them? And why? I'm trying to type up a story as we speak.

Blue Planet already gave two cents on their backstory.

Question, has there been any mods regarding the Shivan - Ancient war?
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Commander Zane on September 09, 2011, 01:36:30 pm: Ancient-Shivan War Act 1.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Firstdragon34 on September 09, 2011, 03:08:59 pm: Wasn't it the Bahama of Old? Or something like it?
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 09, 2011, 09:50:46 pm: Quote from: Firstdragon34 on September 09, 2011, 12:17:36 pm
What would be really cool would be to explore the Shivan's backstory. Who created them? And why? I'm trying to type up a story as we speak.

Or we could leave them mysterious because they're really awesome plot devices that way.

Just sayin'.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Firstdragon34 on September 10, 2011, 08:33:14 am: Maybe I could just hint about the Shivan's origins, but give more information then the tech database in FS1 and FS2.
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: deathfun on September 10, 2011, 04:00:22 pm: Deep within the black abyss that is our Universe, we believe the origins of these Shivans to have come from a powerful being
The mind of a person who worked at Volition. We must track down this being, and eliminate him. Only then can we truly be free from the Shivans
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Firstdragon34 on September 10, 2011, 08:52:49 pm: C'mon on now! That would be too easy! You gotta wonder what is lurking deep in the Milky Way. Are they like the Reapers?
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: deathfun on September 10, 2011, 09:46:10 pm: Spoiler:
No, they're Oompa Loompas

So ya, just finished JAD2
Title: Re: No debriefing for mission SM3-10.fs2 <- LOL!
Post by: Firstdragon34 on September 10, 2011, 11:20:50 pm: Very funny, Deathfun, very funny. ;p Shall we start on a new topic?