Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => Fate of the Galaxy => Topic started by: rhettro on October 26, 2011, 04:55:18 pm
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(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/3rd-render.png)
After a little time off I sat down determined to learn how to do UV textures in Blender. I have the base diffuse texture applied. Needs some dirt and rust. Then I'll start working on the bump map, then the shine map to get the chrome parts right.
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Welcome back!
Before you get too far into texturing, you could try separating the chrome from the yellow parts on the uv map. If you make a bit of space between too very different textures, you get a very crisp clean division on the texture when it's applied to the ship.
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Thanks bobbtmann,
I have some texture islands setup to do that in some places. To do that with the nose cone, wings and engines I would have to rework the polys. That is unless someone knows how to cut one group of polygons with another in Blender. My idea was to bumpmap a crease between them to get better separation.
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Just cut a line where the grey ends and the yellow begins. Then on the uv map, just break it at the new line you made. A bump mapped crease would be just as constrained as diffuse map in terms of resolution.
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Yep, you'll never get that bump mapped line to be as thin as you want it that way. Bobbtmann's solution is what would work best here, and you'd always get a sharp edge without res issues.
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You guys are correct, that is the best solution. Forgive me for being a Blender nOOb, but by cutting a line do you mean with the Knife tool? I can segment edges and pull the verticies to line up with the change in material and then separate them out into different uv islands, but that is a lot of work. I'll still do it if that is what is required.
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K -> Knife (Exact) will cut selected edges exactly where you draw the cutting line, so indeed that's probably the most convenient tool here.
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(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/Render-4-small.png)
Minor update. I cut the polygons on the nose and rebuilt the wings so I could have separate uv islands for each individual texture. Looking a little cleaner now. Now onto the bump mapping.
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Yes, the color separation is much sharper now, very nice.
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Do you think I could see a wireframe version? I'd like to provide some useful critique, but seeing a wireframe shot would help me immensely in helping you solve a few of the issues on the model.
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Critique? But it's already perfect. :D
No problem, wires attached below. When I got ready to work on my normal maps I noticed I flaired the wing a little to far back. Current wires and render below show the fixed condition. Thanks for the input.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/wires-1.png)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/wires-2.png)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/Render-5.png)
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And just for fun, the original NURBS wireframe.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/NURBS.png)
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Have you ever tried box modelling? Might be more efficient.
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I have tried box modeling. I can't say I like it much but I understand how it would make the models more efficient. When I started this project, it was to see if I could work NURBs modeling into a ship building framework. So I've faced a lot of obstacles, but I've learned a lot. I know what I would do differently. For curvilinear forms, you can't beat NURBs for creating accurately shaped ships, if you have a fairly capable polygon modeler, like MAX, then cross sections and lofts would probably be the way to go.
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that's very nice looking!
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Tried to work on textures a bit more today. I still need to tweak the location/size of the panel lines, but it is starting to look like a finished product.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/render-bottom-small.png)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/render-top-small.png)
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Unfortunately Rhettro, bobbtmann's right about NURBS. They're just inefficient for low poly modeling in games. This model is certainly way too high poly to really consider using in game, and not necessarily because of the overall polycount, which I don't know, but it's just inefficient due to its method of construction.
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Considering that Naboo never had more than a few of these, I think this could be a non-issue in most practical situations.
One squadron, max. two was all that we've seen in EP1. I doubt they have many more.
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That's still no excuse for a model that has 4 times as many polies as it needs to.
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This model is certainly way too high poly to really consider using in game, and not necessarily because of the overall polycount,
Hi brand, thanks for the input, but I have to admit, I don't really understand the quoted statement above.
A few caveats, whether my model gets used in the game or not is totally up to you guys, it won't hurt my feelings if you decide not too. :) From the start I've modeled the Naboo as a learning excercise for myself, if one of the things we learn is we can't use NURBS then I guess we learned something.
Currently the model's detail0 polycount is around 5700, which is about 15% more polygons you would want for a standard model, but then again this isn't a standard model. It has changing radii in both dimensions, NURBs as a modeling technique is probably the most accurate way to capture the shape. Once you have the NURBs form you have the option of how many polygons to use when exported. You can make it as course or as finely detailed as you want.
I plan on developing it all the way and getting it in game. Once I have walked through the entire process, I'll have a better idea how to refine it for the next ship.
Cheers.
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I would disagree with you that NURBS is the best way to capture the shape of this model. While it is indeed a very curved shape, box modeling (aka poly modeling) provides more control over where the polies you create will be. While the overall polycount is not that high, for the same number of triangles you could create a model using polies that captures the same exact shape but with more detail.
While I am familiar with NURBS and very partial to them (Rhino was one of my first modelling apps in fact) I still consider them completely inefficient for low poly game modeling. They should be used where they were designed to be, high poly organic models.
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I would disagree with you that NURBS is the best way to capture the shape of this model.
I should have said "most accurate" way instead of "best" way.
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5700 polies isn't excessive for a fighter, not these days, and especially not if it has a single texture map.
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No of course not, once again I don't mean the polycount is too high, I mean it's much higher than it needs to be, and that those polies could be better used elsewhere.
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No of course not, once again I don't mean the polycount is too high, I mean it's much higher than it needs to be, and that those polies could be better used elsewhere.
Ah, this is a true statement. My model isn't nearly as optimized as it could be. Partly due to it being exported from a NURBs model and partly due to me not knowing what I was doing when I exported it the first time. If I was to do it over, I'd probably export the main body shape from NURBS, but model everything else in Blender.
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(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/new-nab.jpg)
The Naboo Fighter reborn.
I decided to rebuild the Naboo model from the ground up in Blender using "box modeling." What a pain. :) But I did manage to bring the poly count down from 5800 to 1540 or so. Model has been UVed so now on to the texturing.
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You know, if a model can be reduced to polygons, as the NURBS model was, it can certainly be reduced manually whilst retaining most of the shape. I'm not sure you needed to start over completely...
:blah:
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Thanks Thaeris,
The problem was, the amount of time to erase polygons from the NURBS model and rebuild it would have taken longer. I know because I was already doing that to an extent. But it wasn't a total loss. I was able to generate bitmap views from my NURBS model that I was able to trace in Blender. Secondly, and I know I'm repeating myself, this is a learning exercise for me. So rebuilding gave me the chance to see how I would have done it using Blender alone.
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Blender experience around here is always a good thing :)
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Everything I know about Blender is because of this site. LOL Really, since version 2.5 I've come to really like Blender. Once you learn a handful of shortcuts it's pretty easy to work with. There's a few things I wish it did better, but still pretty impressive for a free program.
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You know, if a model can be reduced to polygons, as the NURBS model was, it can certainly be reduced manually whilst retaining most of the shape. I'm not sure you needed to start over completely...
:blah:
Actually, he did. NURBS is a great industry tool when it comes to modeling complex, flowing shapes and you need to export them to .step or something similar, and have CNC machines work with it. Mainly because it's based on mathematical curves, rather than polygons. When you convert, the automatic process doesn't leave you enough control over where each poly is, and this is completely irrelevant with actual 3d design. It's extremely relevant with game modeling. I should know, as I've actually done both professionally :) Sure, it's possible to clean up a NURBS converted poly model, but in the end it's faster and more efficient to make one from scratch. There's a very good reason why you use NURBS when it comes to manufacturing, and a very good reason why it's pretty much never used in this type of game modeling. It's inefficient and in the end you end up doing exactly what rhettro did - start a poly based model from scratch.
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Still, experience all around eh? I always thought the Naboo fighter was a great looking craft, despite the bright yellow used for it. Hope you can get it in other colours XD
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Still, experience all around eh? I always thought the Naboo fighter was a great looking craft, despite the bright yellow used for it. Hope you can get it in other colours XD
Maybe a dingy bare-metal look with just occasional spots of yellow still sticking to it, like it's been forty years since episode one happened and jar-jar's died of old age and noone remembers any of the bad stuff from the prequels and...
*wipes drool*
a-hem.
'scuse me.
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This colour scheme would be quite cool for an OT version:
(http://www.colonialchrome.co.uk/ShipImages/Fighters/FG_TRE_N1.gif)
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Everyone knows the red ones go faster.
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...and have more expensive insurance. :nervous:
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Dain I like that version. I was thinking of a retrofitted version that would fit in the OT time frame, along the lines of everything repainted a primer grey color with new insignia. I'm also aware that there is a blue version: http://www.scifigenre.com/itemDetail.aspx?sid=G&nItemID=40226. In addition, according to Wookiepedia, the first versions didn't have chrome on them. I still have to finish the original yellow scheme.
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Do you think you'd be able to model other N-1 Series fighters?
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/N-1_series
Most of these come from SW: Galactic Battlegrounds, and I think they might be interesting to include in FoTG.
They are quite similar to basic N-1, so it shouldn't be difficult to model them once you have the N-1 done.
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I need to finish this model before I commit to other projects, especially since I've been putting the "pro" in procrastination lately. I'm certainly open to doing other N-1 variants, at a minimum I would certainly share my model with anyone who wanted to do a variant. I've been toying with the idea of doing a Droid Battle Fighter as the counterpoint to the N-1. Also I've thought of doing a Naboo Royal Cruiser. But realistically, I'd like to support whatever ship scenarios people want to play and OT era scenarios will likely get preferential treatment.
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Naboo-made fighters were in use during OT and even later (though described as "antique" at one point), usually by pirates and Rebels. Red-colored N-1 would be a great addition to a campaign set in early years of the Rebellion, when they used anything they could get their hands on. It's variants could be used to fill some gaps in their roster (for example, N-1B is a dedicated bomber, something which isn't common in SW universe).
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II may have plans to turn it intol the NB-1(from SW battle of naboo), however, I will be taking several liberties, it will have heavier weapondry, and have some y-wing style inspiration, like some paneling missing, and part of the structure altered, and of course NO chrome
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ok, since Rhettro gave me the mesh a few weeks ago, I decided to combine it with the engines I had made for the NB-1, and start making the changes (and dont worry swash and chief, I am doing this in my freetime, it is not distracting me from my main project).
So here is my basic overall idea on the NB-1: only a couple dozen were made, and most of them were put into storage, until they were secretly given to the rebellion a couple years prior to the battle of Yavin, and unlike the few N-1s, the paneling has not fared as well, and in the course of better maintence, a few panels have been removed, there have been several cover patches added, and most of the paneling on the tail has been removed. The weapondry I have given it is 6-8 medium lasers(to be decided), a pair of torpedo launchers, in where the nose panels have been removed, and a proton bomb launcher, in the location that the proton torp launcher is on the N-1, it has been swaped out. also, physicly, the NB-1s fuselage is longer, has a roomier cockpit, the engines are larger, and there are 2 additional engines. The purpose of these engines are to keep it realitively fast, and power the additional weapondry and heavier lasers. The NB-1 is a strike-bomber, made for fast raids, and medium length battles, but has lighter armor than most bombers. also, the diffusers(the engine tails) have been removed to make the engines faster and more powerful than before, though less green :lol:
oh and this is still a WIP, and the R-2 head was removed to allow Zoo to put one of the main astromech heads on
[attachment deleted by a basterd]
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ok, I discovered the reason, so now here is the older pics inserted
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/NB-1WIP1.jpg)
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/NB-1WIP4.jpg)
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/NB-1WIP3.jpg)
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/NB-1WIP2.jpg)
hope to post some new ones in a while
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ok so some new pics
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/nb1most_of_the_panelingwip1.jpg)
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/nb1most_of_the_panelingwip2.jpg)
ignore the blue inner wings, I removed those, just forgot for this pic
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/nb1most_of_the_panelingwip3.jpg)
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/nb1most_of_the_panelingwip4.jpg)
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Looks really good.
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Could use some lvlshot treatment, but pretty regardless.
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Could use some lvlshot treatment, but pretty regardless.
Fixed that.
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ok so some new pics
Have you tried removing the two wingtip engines? It might look good, especially if you shorten the wings as well.
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Actually, I think that wingtip pods look good. But perhaps they could be made into bomb bays with missile tubes in the cones.
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in that case, do you also plan for the naboo police cruiser (slightly based on the N 1 with a third engine)?
Also, excellent work on the bomber...
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eh I dont think I will do the police cruiser, as there is no need at all, and with in relation to the end engine pods, here what I am going to do is make copies of the current wings, and do both, and await feedback from you guys and rhetto and decide from that(though swash and Brand-X superceded all of you sorry)
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I really like what mando has created from my n-1 mesh. I kind of think of the Naboo ships the same way I think of the Uglies. That is their presence in the OT universe isn't rigidly defined, so the designers have a lot of leeway in what form / color they take on. I imagine if a scenario designer has specific needs the craft could be tailored to meet that.
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That's the kind of situation that could benefit from the use of team colors (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=79743.0)
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In fact, the entire FoTG modpack should be at one point reworked to use team colors, especially Merc/Rebel craft. There are so many color schemes in use in SW universe that making a new texture for each would be impractical.
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Hey man, Great job! Only one q. I've been working on one recently and if you could get me a bottom view, that would be GREAT! Of course you don't have yo if ya don't wanna. HAH! Considering I don't know how long your model takes to render. Anyway, if you want to here's a render of my model I did a little bit ago. http://www.game-warden.com/forum/showthread.php?p=145128&posted=1#post145128
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Here are some shots I took of my plastic model you may find helpful.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/IMAG0403.jpg)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/IMAG0402.jpg)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/IMAG0404.jpg)
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Here are some shots I took of my plastic model you may find helpful.
THANK YOU! :D I appreciate it! You would not believe how long I sat on Google looking for a bottom view... :nono:
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(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/nab-alt.jpg)
There were some proportional issues in my model that were bugging me, so I had to fix the engines and the area behind the cockpit. I wasn't planning on posting anything until I got the model close to final, but I've just started playing with the new Cycles rendering engine in Blender and I thought I'd share my test render. Yes, I have to redo my UV's but I thought the unintended moire pattern came out kind of cool. Just for grins.
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whoops :D, really good to see you back in action at least, now this has me reconsidering working on my naboo bomber now. though rhettro if you do finish your texture I may end up using it if you dont mind, since mine is a derivative of your model. also, word of advice, go ahead and remove the R2, and leave the slot open, they have astromech units for it
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n the process of texturing, I discover flaws in the geometry, thus the reason I've started and restarted so much. The geometry has changed enough that I'm going to totally redo the textures. You're welcome to my new textures, but they will require some tweaking on your end as I'm totally remapping this model. Interchangeable astro mechs? That's the first I've heard about them but sounds like a cool idea. I'll worry about that after I get the first version through the POF stage, which is still a ways off. Cheers.
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UVed for the 100th time or so.
No more changes to the mesh. Time to focus on the textures.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/nab-7-22-12.jpg)
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Hey. The render looks quite nice!
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Hey. The render looks quite nice!
Thanks. The new Cycles rendering engine (in Blender) is powerful (extremely powerful) and as a bonus, it's free. Once I get my textures done I want to do a really nice showcase rendering, ala brandx0.
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like I said before, remove the r2 now while its easy, before you waste your time, and uv space texturing it, if you need to talk to zoo about it, or hop on the irc, but I recomend you do so before you go any farther
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I've got a dedicated spot in my texture for the R2. So what happens if I yank him, I'll have space for a cockpit/pilot. :)
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Yeah, we have dedicated textures for astromechs, and I can add the standard model(s) at the conversion phase, so no need for you to actually fully model/uv/texture the droid.
The X-wing and Y-wing have 3 different droid models that a FREDder can choose from (and there's no limit on the number of texture variations we can use), but on this ship I can only fit 2 models. Shouldn't matter much though, since 2 of the 3 are pretty similar-looking anyway.
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Thanks for the info zookeeper. Whenever I get the model to a point were I think it is worthy of consideration I'll try to get a hold of you for your input. The droid, however, is already UV mapped and I created a vector based (i.e. Inkscape) version of the R2 texture that I simply drop in the right place. I haven't seen any Naboo fighters with anything other than dome shaped droids in them and in such a case I think it would be easier to just to drop the droid texture into the master diffuse one. We can talk about that when I get the model to a level I'm happy with.
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Thanks for the info zookeeper. Whenever I get the model to a point were I think it is worthy of consideration I'll try to get a hold of you for your input. The droid, however, is already UV mapped and I created a vector based (i.e. Inkscape) version of the R2 texture that I simply drop in the right place. I haven't seen any Naboo fighters with anything other than dome shaped droids in them and in such a case I think it would be easier to just to drop the droid texture into the master diffuse one. We can talk about that when I get the model to a level I'm happy with.
Sure. If we want the droid to be customizable (even if it just means switching to a different colour) then I'd suggest I replace it with the standard model when converting, but of course it's not mandatory or anything. In any case, at least this way you have a model right now that you can do renders with.
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Doing a few texture tests before bed. Below is the latest.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/Naboo-Aug-Tex-Test.jpg)
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Wow! Now we're talkin'! She's looking gorgeous. :cool:
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It looks great, though the yellow part is a bit "plastic". The N1 from the movie, IIRC, had matte yellow paint and reflective chrome finish on the front.
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MVaCqv0gQ-Q/TcGEn55y-eI/AAAAAAAAALk/KwVUzj2SHZ0/s1600/NabooFighter.jpg)
It's more of an eggshell/satin finish, but you're right the glossiness needs to be turned down. I'll try a different render later tonight. Still have quite a bit of work to do on the textures. And I'm glad you like it Vector Leader.
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(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/Naboo-Aug-Tex-Test3.jpg)
I found a spare moment. I knocked the gloss down on the painted parts and I like it.
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(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/Naboo-Aug-Tex-Test4.jpg)
I noticed that my texture was crooked so I had to fix it and I added a little gloss back.
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I do hope you know how to fix the lighting issues on that - it really needs it.
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Right. Weird lighting is about the only thing that could be changed in here. I don't know if the yellow shouldn't be a bit darker, but this might just be the lighting.
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These are rendering "tests" after all, guys. The last image looks great on my laptop, but washed out on my desktop computer. I'll do another pass with the lighting level lowered. The setup is simply a quick three rectangles set up as emitters. I think the next Blender build supports the more traditional directional lamp so it will be easier to setup the traditional 3 light studio setup.
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(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/Naboo-Aug-Tex-Test4-dark.png)
Image adjusted for washout.
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I think Thaeris might be referring to the places (most noticeably on the leading edge of the wing) where the shadows look like they are behaving unusually. The leading edge seems to be a straight line, but the line between what is illuminated and what is in shadow wavers around--sometimes a gradual gradient, sometimes a sharp delineation.
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That, and there's an oddity on the side of the fuselage, just below where the wing starts.
Regarding the yellow, it looks like it's changed between episode I and II. It was more orange in episode I, while later it was brighter yellow seen on your model. So it's fine afterall (though I preferred the episode I color).
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I think Thaeris might be referring to the places (most noticeably on the leading edge of the wing) where the shadows look like they are behaving unusually. The leading edge seems to be a straight line, but the line between what is illuminated and what is in shadow wavers around.
I may need to rebuild the leading edge of the wing with a few more polygons to get it to shade correctly, although I'm not sure if FSO will render it in the same way. Also, there is the reflection of the nose of the engine on the wing that makes it look odd. The strange shading on the back edge of the wing is a result of a baked texture error. I can fix that in the textures themselves.
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I don't know if more polygons is the problem. That looks like a triangle-mess due to either non-planar quads (the individual surfaces are not flat, causing the two triangles in the quad to not be in the same plane), or the model is simply just triangulated, and in this case the results are not in your favor. I think either you need software that can manually manipulate the lighting (like Blender or Max), or you need to re-do the edge loop on the leading edge. The latter is probably the better option, but your UV ma will need to be re-done as a result.
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(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/NabooFinal.png)
Basically done now. I rebuilt the connection between the engine and the wings as well as the front nose to give a more flowing shape. The abrupt transition between wing and engine was causing a shadin g problem, this version is a lot cleaner. I plan on doing proper lighting setup for some higher grade renderings. I think I have made some progress since my first version as you can see below.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/OldandNew-small.png)
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Looks really good, almost like CGI from the movie. :yes:
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That's an extremely decent render, I look forward to seeing if you can get it looking even better with improved lighting setups. Any chance of a shot comparing your wireframe mesh to the renderedview?
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congrats rhettro, and yet again your texturing skills deffinately outdo mine, however you still however have a small challenge. adding over 3 decades of wear tear and neglect to make it look not nearly out of the factory as it does now, throw some dirt and damage layers on, I know you can do it
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Thanks guys,
When I get home tonight I'll do a rendered / wireframe comparison. I spent a couple hours this weekend tweaking the colors the way I wanted them and just threw in some environmental lighting without much thought. I need to watch a few Youtube videos on creating a proper studio lighting setup and then I'll work on the real presentation renders.
Mando,
Thanks for the compliment, but I still have lots to learn. This is the second model I have ever done that had any kind of UV textures on them. My goal was to do the “factory fresh” version because it is the one everyone is familiar with. To be honest, after working on and off this model for the last three years I’m ready for something different. LOL If someone wants to do an aged version of the texture set, they are welcome to it. I may do a variant or two, but it will be in the vain of the whole thing getting painted in that matte off-white that the rebels love so much. I’d really like to go on to my next model, maybe a Droid Vulture or a *cough*Tie Defender*cough. What model does the community want to see next?
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Or maybe the Moldy Crow?
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u162/voiddarko/IMG_1516.jpg)
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I really really like your idea with the TIE Defender.
Or how about the Missile Boat from TIE Fighter or Director Lencer's experimental remotely controlled TIEs from XWA?
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hmmm I tried at the mouldy crow, getting it to an acceptable look is tricky though. Tie-Defender is easier. hmmmm I had a thought, could I talk to you on the FOTG IRC?
new note, since I dont want to do a new post:
well, mouldy crow would be quite fun, however, like I said, be careful, its tricky to do in an acceptable way, also another option would be the XG-1 starwing, and you have a little help with the slight redesigning required. I was going to do this myself, but I think you may have a better shot at it, so here is some old concept art from StarSlayer's shipyard, its not the complete picture, but I think you could work with it, though the design needs some polishing
(http://i52.tinypic.com/51ahg.jpg)
wish you the best of luck, you may have a chance at finishing this thing, though others before you have tried and failed
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(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/Render-Wire.png)
Render / Wire comparison for Lord Melvin.
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We had some really good discussion awhile back about a reimagining of the Starwing/Assault Gunboat, and I believe most of the consensus was to turn it into a side-by-side two-seater with strong visual ties to the Lambda shuttle (that pic Mando posted is a pretty decent example). While work there stalled, I'd still love to see those ideas come to fruition.
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Some more renderings, I was playing around different ground planes.
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/nABrENDER-10-21-3.jpg)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/nABrENDER-10-21-2.jpg)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/nABrENDER-10-21.jpg)
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Just wondering, since the model and textures are completed, will the FoTG team consider adding the ship to the game (at least in FRED) if the ship has everything finished, including PCS2?
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I, for one, like the N1 and would love to see it in the game. We may not have a use for it in our initial campaign but I think it would be a fine addition to multiplayer or as a general modding asset.
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Considering the models I’m interested in doing, I think they will all go into the expanded content category. Right now I’m committed to helping Mando with the base textures to his Dagger class fighter. After that I’m going to take on three models at a time. My next three will be: The Droid Vulture, Slave-1 and the Tie Defender. Other ships I’m considering: Missile Boat, Moldy Crow & Raven’s Claw, J-Type Diplomatic Barge and if Tom Shak doesn't look like he’ll return I’ll take a stab at the Assault Gunboat.
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I appreciate your enthusiasm, and the result on this craft has been more impressive than I originally expected. However, given the time it took to reach this stage (almost 1 year to the day), unless you've fallen into an overabundance of free time I wonder if taking on more than one ship at a time might be stretching yourself a bit thin?
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personaly, I agree with most of those, I honestly had considered a stab at the Slave-1, however since curves generaly hate me, I wish you luck. and again thanks for your help rhettro. also, first in regard to the slave 1, by the battle of hoth a less modified general series of the firespray class had been created, and it just had the lasers, so think about that(the standard series is a partrol fighter, and prisoner transport). Now in relation to my own projects, as of right now, I am going to try and finish my WIPs(R-22, T-wing, possibly the R-41, and if I can get concept art from thaeris one other thing), but other than that, I have no plans, honestly I want to get done what I started and wanted to get into this, however I think I would much rather try and poor new efforts into else where. and again good luck rhettro
oh and chief, the way he put it to me was that he would take advantages of slow periods and problems in the other projects to focus on the other. his plan may be risky, but not impossible
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unless you've fallen into an overabundance of free time I wonder if taking on more than one ship at a time might be stretching yourself a bit thin?
If anything I have less free time now. But keep in mind that the N1 was my learning model. I was teaching myself Blender, polygonal modeling and UV mapping all at the same time. The difference now is I don’t have to relearn all that; I can focus on the models. The reason I’m going to do them three at a time is to keep me interested. If I get frustrated with one model I can work on the other, plus I think it will be good for the board to watch the progression of several models verses one. That said, it will still probably take me a year to get those first three models done.
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I find my work goes in spurts. I'll have long periods of inactivity, then inspiration will strike and I'll be able to work for a few good hours (which usually gets quite a bit done). So if you have the urge to model, don't ignore it. It might not come again for a while. It may also help to have self imposed deadlines too.
Your N-1 looks good. If I might make a suggestion, though. Polygons that are the same smoothing group try to blend together, regardless of the angle between each other. Having a single line between two areas can be okay if the angle between them is low enough, but if your angle exceeds a certain amount, you get these weird shadows forming on your model.
If you look at the leading edge of the wing and connection between the top and the bottom of the fuselage of your N-1, you'll notice these shadows that aren't supposed to be there. That's because you haven't got enough edges defining those areas. In future models (and this one, if you want), try adding a little bit more detail along those areas. I promise, it won't go amiss. Alternatively, you can also change smooth groups (which are defined by the edges rather than the polygons in Blender, I believe)
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Speaking from (way too much) experience, working on more than one model at a time is a great way to spread yourself too thin and never finish anything. What's going to happen is you're going to reach a stage you dislike with one of them (typically UVW's for a lot of people) and then switch to the other one, then rinse and repeat. Then RL will take over, after several months it will be difficult to get back into it, and.. you get the picture. I know it's tempting to just go and grab every cool ship you can think of, but it's really a bad idea. Focusing on one at the time has always proven to be the best strategy during my work on Diaspora, and not just for me but really for everyone involved.
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Your N-1 looks good. If I might make a suggestion, though. Polygons that are the same smoothing group try to blend together, regardless of the angle between each other. Having a single line between two areas can be okay if the angle between them is low enough, but if your angle exceeds a certain amount, you get these weird shadows forming on your model.
That's great advice bobbtmann, thanks. If motivation moves me, I may try to fix it. My guess is that it's a shadow that more likely to show up in a high quality render than the game engine. Moving forward though, I'll being thinking more in terms of topology than approximating a ship's shape.
Speaking from (way too much) experience, working on more than one model at a time is a great way to spread yourself too thin and never finish anything.
Curses, newman has uncovered my true plan to never finish any model ever! Alas, this is also a good point.To quote Mythbusters, "failure is always an option." I make no promises. If finishing models was my motivation I'd definitely take your approach. But I'm not here to finish models, I'm here to create cool stuff, learn and fine tune my methods. To that end, a variety of models will fit my purposes and they aren't critical to any mod on this board.
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My guess is that it's a shadow that more likely to show up in a high quality render than the game engine.
Actually, it's the other way around. Things like these are visible in the engine, and can be quite easy to hide in a render. Renders have the advantage of not having players able to inspect the models in them from every angle and lighting scenario possible. I've seen quite a few horrible meshes that were used for pretty good renders :)
Curses, newman has uncovered my true plan to never finish any model ever! Alas, this is also a good point.To quote Mythbusters, "failure is always an option." I make no promises. If finishing models was my motivation I'd definitely take your approach. But I'm not here to finish models, I'm here to create cool stuff, learn and fine tune my methods. To that end, a variety of models will fit my purposes and they aren't critical to any mod on this board.
Fair enough :)
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I suppose I could alway purchase a professionally model mesh and copy the wings in to take care of the shadow problem. Here's a good one. http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3ds-max-naboo-starfighter-star-wars/393912
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By "good" do you mean "joke?"
No offense, but even if it were for a price, I'd not spend a penny on it. That's a really shoddy model.
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LOL
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If I were to suggest a solution, it would be modeling by parts. Model the engine nacelles via a revolve operation, they are cylindrically uniform, after all. Then model the wings as an airfoil and extrude them out. I'd assume the foil is of constant section geometry, the scale is the only thing that varies. Merge that wing together with the fuselage, and then blend the rough parts, then merge the nacelles and the wing - and you may not even need to do that! In the end, flat quads and nice edge loops will do much to solving many of your lighting troubles.
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Actually, that's exactly how I constructed it Thaesis. All the quads are planar, I know because I went back with a tool that flattens them. They were already pretty flat to begin with. bobbtmann's suggestion is closer to the solution. The larger the angles between smoothing groups, the more likely shading errors are to occur. A narrow, uniform fillet between them aids in the transition. I could cut the polygons on my leading edge, but it will introduce triangles which may necessitate rebuilding the transition into the fuselage and the engine. Or maybe it'll be fine. I'll worry about it when it comes time to port it to PCS.
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That's actually what I was noting when I said "blend." Manually adding an edge loop in a curved section is a LOT of work if you do it right, at least with the way I work. I assume higher-end programs may be able to manage this a bit more easily, but then, I've seen a lot of models made with very pricey programs that aren't worth a dime.
This is actually a project where tactful use of subdivisions may be worth the work - of course, that will mean carefully making the base model, which will subdivide properly (and splitting it where necessary), and then reducing it to proper levels of detail. Proper subdivision modeling is not a simple or short affair.
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Manually adding an edge loop in a curved section is a LOT of work if you do it right...
I don't think it would be that hard. Just select a ring along the leading edge of your wing, connect them, pull the new line forward a little bit. It might stretch your UV, but that shouldn't be too bad.
Also, I wouldn't worry about keeping your quads planar. It seems more trouble than it's worth, especially such rounded models.
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Well I may end up tweaking here and there, but I ain't rebuilding it. I agree it would be cool to construct it in a way to take advantage of subdivision. As currently constructed the subdivision modifier tends to take the bulk out of it while making it look slightly smoother. If I ever get around to the J-Barge I might have to think about it.
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Well I may end up tweaking here and there, but I ain't rebuilding it. I agree it would be cool to construct it in a way to take advantage of subdivision. As currently constructed the subdivision modifier tends to take the bulk out of it while making it look slightly smoother. If I ever get around to the J-Barge I might have to think about it.
Just apply what you've learned to the next model, then the next, and the next, and you'll be fine. Buying other meshes - even if they're good - wouldn't achieve the goal you're after, which is learning how to do it yourself. Sure you can see how those meshes were set up as an example but tbh it's not worth the money. Plus, that mesh on turbosquid isn't very good, and costs about 15$ more than it's worth :)
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I was hoping that the fact that I linked to such a bad mesh would clue people in that it was a joke. I would have expect a greater sense of humor from a board dedicated to grown men that like to pretend they're flying space ships. :)
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Well, when someone who's obviously a beginner at this (no offense intended) links to a bad mesh, the joke's not as obvious as you might think. Especially on the internet where you don't really know the vast majority of people you communicate with.
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All to true.
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hmmm, if he could model as fast as he defends himself with witty comebacks, he would be done already ;)
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http://p3d.in/X0Jnz
Jumping on the P3D bandwagon. Still looks like a couple mesh issues to be resolved on the underside, but nothing major.
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The mesh in the bottom side seems irregular. There also seems like a weird triangle when the back of the wings meld with the rest of the ship body. Still it's almost perfect. The imperfections of the texture in the grey areas make it look uglier than it is.
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Yeah, I noticed that weird triangle. I'll fix it. Environmental reflection will pretty it up somewhat in game.
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Oh don't worry too much about the environmental reflection... just the per pixel lighting will improve it a lot (the vertex lighting is really a pain in the ass in low poly models).
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like I have said before it is looking rather nice, just a couple of tweaks needed
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You know what the problem is with this ship? (And why I've never really liked it)
It's facing the wrong way! Flip it around and imagine the cockpit is facing the other direction. Way cooler looking!
Actually...then it just becomes an extremely streamlined Z-95. With engines on the ends of the wings.
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Yeahno
When I look at that ship I think this (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/AF_Kato).
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I always liked the posters brand-x used to do with his finished models. I couldn't help myself from making my own. :lol:
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/NAB-POSTER50P_zps26f2e8a7.png)
If you really want it you can download the 1080p version here.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByuCuOaJVGbXUnlKRGJscGZ3ZU0/edit?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByuCuOaJVGbXUnlKRGJscGZ3ZU0/edit?usp=sharing)
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Man, this N-1 is looking STUNNING. :pimp:
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Did you submit this ship last year and I totally missed it? Or was it just recently finished?
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Thanks for the compliment Vector Leader.
swash: I finished the model last year, but I haven't submitted it yet. Just let me know what the submittal procedure is and it's yours. I had a little time yesterday and I wanted to learn a little more about how to set up Blender's cameras, so I used the opportunity to make a poster ala brand-x.
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There's really no particular submittal procedure; just provide the model in a format that I can open up in Max, so probably .obj or something, and textures in an uncompressed format at the largest size you happen to have.
The time it takes for me to actually get a model in-game depends on how badly we need it, how much work I need to do (such as LODs, debris, etc) and how much other higher priority stuff I have on my plate. :nervous:
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Bonus points for also providing the .psd or .xcf files for the textures to make it easier to tweak things, do team colors, etc.
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Can do.
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The time it takes for me to actually get a model in-game depends on how badly we need it, how much work I need to do (such as LODs, debris, etc) and how much other higher priority stuff I have on my plate. :nervous:
would it be easier if rhettro did the LODs, debris, etc. while you work on the higher priority stuff?
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Nice, rhettro! For a ship that I never liked even a little bit, you've made it look very pretty. Kudos.
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:Dwould it be easier if rhettro did the LODs, debris, etc. while you work on the higher priority stuff?
Sure, if he wants to. Then again, fighter debris is super quick to make, and for this ship LODs are likely as well, so those aren't really going to cause much delay. It's more about just taking the time to do all the other conversion-related stuff while I could be finishing up the ISD or something like that. :D That said, I think it'd be nice to have in R1 for people to use even if it wouldn't feature in any of our campaign missions, so I should be able to squeeze it in at some point.