Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => Fate of the Galaxy => Topic started by: mandobardanjusik on November 06, 2011, 06:40:36 am
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ok hello everyone, I am working on some models here,(as well as hoping to join the team) but I need some help. I have no trouble in the replication stage, but I could use your help and advice in making these ships fit in better in their designs with the rest of the movie ships.
First is the Scimitar assualt bomber, I made most of the mesh a while back but I finally got around to adding some more of the fine details. and there are no pics of the engine section so I am open to any suggestions, but remember, this is NOT technicly a tie as it has only a single engine(but a ton of missile and bomb launchers) also sorry if the render quality isnt perfect, I am new to clay rendering (in case anyone is wondering I use max 9)
ok here is the link as well, in case you guys were wondering about where in the expanded universe this craft is from http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Scimitar_assault_bomber . also I will post my next general ship on this thread after I recive and respond to feedback on this ship
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oh and interesting fact, the command pod on this bomber doubles as an escape pod, and this thing can be upgraded to have a hyperdrive
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Nice clay renders :)
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thanks chief, any comments on the ship itself?
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Well the modelling is well done, my only suggestion in that department would be to put those grooves along the cockpit into the normal map, they're too shallow to need to be on the model itself, and that would free you up enough polies to make the cylinder 24 sided, rather than the 16 you currently have. Also the raised ribs along the front guns don't need to be on the model, nor do the indents in the bomb tubes.
The design itself isn't bad either, it's one of those rare EU designs that manages to fit mostly into that Star Wars style. There are a few things that make it stand out though:
1) The giant engine at the back just doesn't really seem to fit in with the rest of the imperial designs. It's even bigger than the rebel engines. I'd come up with a different propulsion system, maybe make it a TIE-style (yes I'm aware that it's supposed to have one engine, not two, but it's the EU so it's fair game for redesigning)
2) The solar panels on all of the TIEs have at least one flat, greebled area. There is a small circular greeble which is present on every single TIE, this one (http://swc.fs2downloads.com/reference/Another_Site/Fighter/TieFighter/TIE_Fighter_wing.jpg), And I think it'd help to break up the shape of the wing a little, make it less polygonal.
3) The way the wings connect to the body doesn't seem very imperial either. I'd suggest replacing it with something along the lines of the TIE Advanced, which has a cylindrical bridge attached to a flat plane. This would give you more opportunity to add some detailing into the texture as well, with more to draw inspiration from.
4) A minor one, but one that you made on this model that doesn't appear in the original references, the cockpit of every TIE has the ribs every 45 degrees, starting from perfectly horizontal and vertical spars. Yours are offset 22.5 degrees, so there are no horizontal or vertical spars. I think it would work better the original way. In addition, if you want to make the cockpit glass identical to the other TIEs (this is something I'd suggest) there is too much forward protrusion. See here. (http://swc.fs2downloads.com/reference/Another_Site/Fighter/TieFighter/TIE_fighter.jpg)
All in all, my biggest suggestion for you, if you're looking to get your stuff in our game, is to start small, get one model up to our standards and totally complete before tackling multiple projects. Many suggestions we have will be on such things as your modelling or texturing style or method, and so they'll likely apply to all models you make. Save yourself some frustration and get one done the way we need it so you don't have to go and redo every model you've made.
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ok here is another fighter of mine, it is a reimagined version of the R-41 Starchaser http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/R-41 . In case you were wondering, no that was not the original intent, but it is a long backstory, and it no longer matters anyways. yes, the dual rotorary cannons are being removed and the evil R4 is either being removed, or replaced. and yes I will nicen up the engine section adn thicken the wings. Ok so any comments advice or tips. and yes, it will have the same armenant as the R-41 of 2 lasers, a pair of ion cannons, and dual missile launcher,. yes I will post new pics after more advice is given, and the model is fixed
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I suggest giving it another number. Either R-42 or R-41B or something, to establish it as the Starchasers succesor or upgrade.
I'd also make the flaps (or however it's called) that go up and down from the tips of the wings a bit smaller and make the flaps at the base of the wings a little taller.
But it already does look very cool as it is.
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well, technicly its up to chief or Brand-x, as they are nto against reimagining, but we will find out later,. oh and if you were looking at the pic names, ignore those, that was just my little nickname for the model. it is still the R-41 starchaser
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ok to better defend my ppoint of having this as a reimgained R-41, I removed the extra optional, or needed to be removed details, and pulled out an actual R-41 replica model I made and made these two renders to emphasize the similarities. (yes the engines can use some adjustment, as can the laser length, but put thta under improvements needed) again feel free to give advice, and tell me which pices from the earlier version you would like me to keep (wings, stabs, astromech, etc.). and the varying lengths arent really a problem, as this thing is 16.5m long (the Y-wing is 16m). oh and of course allow for some artisitic differences
edit: frontal pic to show engine entakes, Ion cannons, missile tubes
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It's pretty good, but I'm not sure how I like how every forward protrusion is pointy. It looks vaguely like a murder weapon.
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Looks very pirate-y. Which isn't bad, Black Sun or Telnoss Sindicate would most likely be seen using ships like that.
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Mando - I'd really like to see what you can do with the feedback Brand gave you on the Scimitar. I think that model has the best potential of what you've shown to fit into the look and feel this mod is going for, and I want to see you focus on that to see it through to completion.
After you've got that done, I think you've got a good start for a re-imaged R-41, but one thing at a time.
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sounds fine by, I can make most of the fixes tonight, its not overly difficult
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ok new update on the scimitar, I have made the new changes to the scimitar as recomended by Brand. this includes: new rounder cockpit module with proper window alignment, additional pipes(noticed on the ref) a much smaller engine exhaust more in the style of a tie, even if it like 2-4 times the size of one, a couple additional details, new wing braces, and a nice outerwing gimble, that is similar, but a bit different than the one on a normal TIE
also interesting note, this thing has about 10x the firepower of a TIE bomber because it has about 20 missile and bomb tubes. and like I said, fixes were easy, the rendering on the other hand takes forever
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warning, warning, new era fleet approaching, consisting of 9 old republic fighters, a thranta, a sith interceptor, and a mandalorian kandosii from the Great hyperpace war, the great sith war, the Mandalorian War and the Great Galatic War.
hmmm, what do you guys think of all these ships? dont worry, I didnt make all of these last night, these are some ships I have been making and piling up for 2 RTS mods I have been piling up for a while. some of these are still WIP, and some do need improvement, but they arent coming to this mod, at least not yet. thought I would show you guys some more of my work, though wouldnt be interesting if we added the ancient part of the Old republic era to this mod? but, then again who know what will happen, tell me what you guys think of these ships of mine. oh and none of these are to scale with each other, (especially considering most of these are fighters, a gunship, and a shuttle, whereas the Kandosii in back is a dreadnaught, that is 1360m long), they are just all around the same scale so I can show you the detail. and if you think it would be cool to see these in this mod, do tell, and if you have any questions, or want any wiki links to any of these ships and or close ups, ask me. and I just realized if the Old Republic were to be added I have already made about 80% of republic fighters , all pre-new sith wars of course.
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Nice work.
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ok new update on the scimitar, I have made the new changes to the scimitar as recomended by Brand. this includes: new rounder cockpit module with proper window alignment, additional pipes(noticed on the ref) a much smaller engine exhaust more in the style of a tie, even if it like 2-4 times the size of one, a couple additional details, new wing braces, and a nice outerwing gimble, that is similar, but a bit different than the one on a normal TIE
also interesting note, this thing has about 10x the firepower of a TIE bomber because it has about 20 missile and bomb tubes. and like I said, fixes were easy, the rendering on the other hand takes forever
Much better - I like the changes. I'd say now that with the smaller engine exhaust, that whole section needs some more detail. Stick some engine bits or greebles or something in that area to make it more interesting.
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ok I have a few Ideas, I will do them later, then add a pic to this. any other comments on my OR era ships?
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ok added a final bit of greebling to the engine section, did an indent, and added a bit of piping, here is the pic
now a question for zoo keeper: can you tell me what I need to do from here to prep the model for getting it ingame, and can you link me to any proper tuts on the forum as well if you want ( and no, I do not need UV mapping or texture tuts, I actualy made a UV mapping tut), and I will do what I can to prep it, though you will ahve to do the actual final checking and prepping.
the next ship I will prep to get ingame, will be one of mine that needs a bit of mesh editing to make it look like the original ship, but does have a finished skin, I will tell you what it is later
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ok, so I luckily have a skinner friend of mine who wants the scimitar for his FOC mod, so I will send that to him for skinning tonight, though I am doing the engine specific stuff. unless there are any further changes that you guys want, in that case I will wait
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Big improvement. I'd say those two rectangle greebles on each side of the engine could probably be handled by texture instead of actual model though.
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It's too bad it's the wrong time period, that ship you have labeled as "thranta" is pretty cool.
Also, the wiki says "thranta (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Thranta)" is a type of flying animal native to Alderaan, and what you have there is the Hammerhead-class cruiser (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hammerhead-class_cruiser).
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eh, sorry you are wrong, it is the Thranta- corvette, there are actualy 2 ships of the name http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Thranta-class_Republic_Corvette if you google it there are newer pics that I used for ref as well, and it is also in the new TOR game
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Bwaaa????
I expected there would be a disambiguation page :blah:
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ok, so three more pics of the scimitar, I am still awaiting approval from brand, but hopefully this is the finished mesh, I ahve made several changes, hopefully for the better, and I cannot wait to let my skinner get his hands on it. also, I will be gone for a few days, so hopefully my skinner will have the skin for me byy the time I get back
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I am back in town, so expect more new stuff, and I am still hoping on final comments on the scimitar from brand-x or bob, before I send it to my skinner
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Dunno if you ever seen Fractal Sponge's work but it could be food for thought (http://fractalsponge.net/gallery/Starfighters/Scimitar%20Assault%20Bomber/index.html)
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I did, but nobody showed me till after I had already done most of the ship, but I did incorporate several of the design changes into my model
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I think they should be included, because they would be in employment of some backwater systems, who 'd be flying them because they have nothing else available and couldn't afford new stuff. That's just too good work to go to waste. However, that's not my decision to make. Final decision rests with the team. @mandobardanjusik, please keep them someplace, once the first versions of "Fate of the Galaxy" is launched, you could mod them in, if the team thinks they shouldn't be part of the "Fate of the Galaxy".
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At the very least, unused models can definitely be uploaded to fsmods or another place and listed in the wiki, that would be very helpful for many, i'm sure. I like the designs too, don't let them go to waste!
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don't worry you guys, all of these were created for various RTS reasons, so they will get used, however, there is a high possiblity most of them can get used in this mod itself
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the scimitar skinning has begun, have 2 pics for you guys, expect more soon, most of the stuff so far is for the normal map
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Looking good. The panel on the side could respond more to the geometry. Where the torpedo launcher is, the panels just sort of intersect it. Try making the lines go around the torpedo tube.
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ummm, bobb, those are the repulsorlift generators, the torpedo launchers and proton bomb/thermal detonater are the items on the bottom of all those boxes(boy one slavo from this could proably take out the engine section of a nebulon-b!), but I get the idea
also, 2 more pics
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ok decided to do the LODs real quick, posting em for zoo to see
update: changes recomended by zoo taken
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my UV map for brand, I will be the first to admit I am not the best uv mapper
addition: ok so I talked to brand about and apparently I need to remap it, and I will, but first I need help, I need a new back. I am considering using fractual sponges, as it is proably the best lookinh, but mine will only have ONE engine but I could just modify what he has to a single engine config. so I will see what I can do later, but again if anyone else has any ideas tell me.
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ok I have made a new scimitar back based off of fractual sponges artwork, I may add a few more greebles here and there, but this is most of it
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thought I would show you guys my pursuer patrol craft, yes it does need a little fixing, and altered propotions, and maybe a few more details, but thought I would show it. some of you may rember it from XWA, or dark empire http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Pursuer-class_enforcement_ship
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ok redid the scimitar Uc, both to repriotize, and I had to uv the new back as well
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ok, I am messing with the uv some more, then I am going to try skinning this thing again
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I think I finally have this uv done, so posting it, and I am now trying to do the skin (again). personally ready to make something new, but will have to wait of course :(
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I've circled the areas that will probably have to be fixed in red, and the areas you should consider changing in yellow:
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ok, I made all the fixes on the uv here is a pic, I will start skinning tonight
PS: bobb I purposely did not change that one area because it is actualy one solid part, and has no overlapping parts, so it should be fine
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ok, I thought you guys would like to see some progress, I have a good idea of whats up next, but no revealing until I finish the scimitar and pursuer textures
So here is a very early WIP of the pursuer texture. going s bit off the XWA colors. they just have the most potential, wlel its more colorful at least, if anyones has comments or ideas tell, me
the pursuer is a patrol craft, it is faster than most frieghters, though it is only slightly slower than the Falcon(The slave 2 is actualy faster, can considering that boba only modified it a bit).
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ok, update. so Bobb got me fixed and in the right direction with the pursuer skin, so here is a nice render I asked him to make, I will be working on this quite a bit tomorow
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ok, so I am ressurecting this thread. I have something I need to say and I am going to be straight forward with it. I can model, and I can uv, but I am extremely weak at texturing. while I do plan to work on that, at this moment if I want to be productive towards FOTG, I am going to need to team up with a somewhat skilled texturer. the current projects I would like some help with is The Utility Tug, preferably the dagger, and posibly the scimitar and warpod if possible, but it would require a good amount of uving skill on my side. I am willing to do modeling, and or uv mapping in exchange, though I would like to see previous examples of your work. and preferably someone who has a feel for FOTG and starwars
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hello again, I have once AGAIN tried to texture the scimitar, and I wasnt able to catch bobb or brand yesterday, so to make it easier on them and me, I am posting a jpeg of it here (http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/scimitar.jpg) (oh and I fixed up the tug, however dont know how to approach the texture)
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That UV layout looks very inefficient. In numerical terms there's "only" about 40% wasted space, but looking at it I think it's clear that things could be packed a lot more efficiently.
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I don't think the UV layout is bad, although all those tiny pieces could get grouped a lot tighter. But I'm guessing that may only net you at best 10 percent more texture to use. This texture tutorial is a good place to start: www.ciinet.org/kevin/wchf/texturetut.html
I confess that I am still only a beginner when it comes to textures.
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I don't think the UV layout is bad, although all those tiny pieces could get grouped a lot tighter. But I'm guessing that may only net you at best 10 percent more texture to use. This texture tutorial is a good place to start: www.ciinet.org/kevin/wchf/texturetut.html
I confess that I am still only a beginner when it comes to textures.
I'm not. He could gain a lot more than 10% by efficiently organizing the UV layout, he's wasting a lot of space.
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uv has been fixed and optimized, and approved by bobb, and the AO bake turned out fine, now for the pain of texturing it
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If you stopped looking at every challenging bit as being a pain and instead looked at it like a fun challenge, it might help. Otherwise, give up and go to greener pastures. Why would you do something painful as a hobby? You either like doing it or you don't. If you don't, you're in luck - there are so many other hobbies to choose from, I'm sure you'll find yourself in one.
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If you stopped looking at every challenging bit as being a pain and instead looked at it like a fun challenge, it might help. Otherwise, give up and go to greener pastures. Why would you do something painful as a hobby? You either like doing it or you don't. If you don't, you're in luck - there are so many other hobbies to choose from, I'm sure you'll find yourself in one.
I don't see what's wrong with disliking one aspect of modding. For example, I dislike writing briefings and waypointing, but building a mission up from zero to a full mission is a lot of fun. Does that make me dislike FREDding? I don't think so.
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I can understand how UVW mapping can be a pain for some people sometimes. It's a necessary "evil". But texturing is the actual art. If you don't actually like doing it, your textures are going to come out mediocre at best. I'm just saying, it's a matter of perspective. If everything that's challenging is considered a chore.. it's bad way to look at it.
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well, its not nessecarily a dislike, however, there are areas where I need direct help and teaching, rather than tutorials, and that can be tough to get. and trust me if I was going to give up, I would have done that months ago and gone after my first try and went back to the FOC communitty completely. and this is like my third attempt at the scimitar texture now, and I have tried at a couple others at well(usualy ended by a needed mesh or uv change). and I also need some help with some of the texturing on the tug, I am unsure of how to do some of the detailing
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Newman, I know you can be something of a hard cynic, but if you are willing to give me a hand, I would love to bounch some questions off you on IRC about texturing, or I could post them on here, as it is a couple of detailing related stuff that is preventing me from finishing the tug
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Newman, I know you can be something of a hard cynic, but if you are willing to give me a hand, I would love to bounch some questions off you on IRC
I was unaware you knew me at all. Anyway, I'm going to be very busy over the next few days and won't have time. I'll pop round the IRC when my timetable allows it, but in the mean time, here's how I'd approach texturing.
1) Render your uvw map in the resolution you'll be working with. Save as PNG, open in Photoshop, Gimp, or whatever you're working in.
2) Come up with a basic paneling texture. Google a bit to find examples, see if you can lift one off one of the FotG artists to see how they approached it. Something you can tile that isn't too eye catching.
3) Put your base texture layer beneath the UVW layer. Name them appropriately. You'll always use the base texture layer as bottom and UVW one as top.
4) Start experimenting. Using the UVW layer to orient yourself, start drawing in detail. Experiment with tools, effects, custom brushes, don't be afraid to add layers. They can easily be turned off or deleted.
5) Scour the net for some good custom brushes, see about adding some dirt. But think about what types of dirt and weathering are there and where are they most likely to occur. You probably don't want paint chipping in the middle of a large flat surface but rather on the edges. Think about which parts would be most exposed to weathering, enemy fire, scorch marks, etc, and apply accordingly. One of the common newbie mistakes is to overapply dirt everywhere, without thinking about where each dirt type actually makes sense. Look up examples of real aircraft/vehicles to get an idea too.
6) Loads and loads and loads of practice.
7) I believe you already know about baking occlusion. It can do a lot for the overall look of your ship.
7) You'll find your definition of a "hard cynic" might.. change a bit as you get older. I'm just telling you how it is :)
I'll see about dropping by IRC when time allows, but honestly FotG already has excellent artists so you should be in good hands when it comes to specific questions. It's just that "not sure how to texture" isn't specific, and people will be more likely to actually help when you're already well on your way and just need specific advice here or there.
Good luck, in any case.
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ok thanks Newman, and its good to know I already have a basic template setup with 1-3, and 7. and I will see if I can see about getting a tad bit more specific, as I know exactly what to ask about on the tug, and on the scimitar, I actualy have a basic idea on what to do on the texture, the tough part is getting the cockpit modules forward uv perfect, its hard to do well without warping
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No probs, I just remembered this tutorial: http://www.jamesodonnell.info/dingo_tut/index.html
If you haven't gone through it already, I highly recommend doing so before proceeding with any spacecraft. You'll save yourself some time in the end. Definitely one of the "go to" tutorials for beginners, it should give you a really good idea how to approach this.
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why THANKS newman this is exactly what I needed for the tug
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well say hello to the beginning of another new attempt at the scimitar texture, hopefuly wont be that hard this time, as I now know most of the detail areas.
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/back_to_photoshop.jpg)
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The splotchy gray base color isn't a very good starting point. I'd try something more uniform.
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ok so after a good bit of work, and a few somewhat new techniques, I have managed to do as much of the tug texture that is within my skill area(still have a thing or two I hope to get help with from bobb though). and since brand's mailbox is full, I am posting the pics out here for him to evaluate.
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/neo_tugeval.jpg) (http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/neo_tugeval2.jpg)
note(dirt and blast marks are the 2 things I am hoping to get bobbs help on)
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For dirt you won't get any argument for me (apart from adding some oily splotches perhaps), but blast marks?
That thing can't have blast marks, because it doesn't survive any blasts, and who would bother to shoot a tug in the first place?
Apart from that my complements for this fine piece of work.
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well, first off it has a reinforced top hull that is designed to take heavy collisions, and the occasional blast shot(and they may be used as training targets which would scratch the paint).. second they can be considered a target when you are after them or the cargo they are pulling(sometimes they get escorts even ;)) and it has the common upgrade of a pair of laser cannons for defense. and thanks
oh and dont forget tug skiing, when you use your tractor beam to grab a ride on a faster fighter, going fast, and shooting at it
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Seems like they've gone a long way from being instantly vaporized, like they were in X-Wing... or was it alliance?
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well I would at least think they could take a few hits, at least as many as the tie fighter. I mean, if they can take a hit with a piece of cargo, or a micrometeorite, a laser blast or two should be allowable, however it isnt a fighter of course
and training lasers can barely scratch paint on a fighter
however in the end it is all up to the coders
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well since I missed chief by 2 minutes I am posting the improved back caustion paint.
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/tugval.jpg)
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I would try to introduce that brown metal texture to the domes at the base of the tractor beams.
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That's a more detailed texture than I have managed to complete. :) But like bobbtmann, I would like to see the brown metal bleed onto the adjacent parts. Also I would expect some of the yellow paint to be flaking off if it is as old as the brown metal parts. You have talent Mando, keep it up.
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do you guys want me to be able to finish this?!!!!! also I imagine the yellow paint to be constantly replaced, and I used to have flaking but it wasnt up to standards, and its not like I have a ton of experience like bobb or brand
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ok sorry, that was a bit harsh, I am just getting tired have doing to stuff again and again and again
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Indeed, the yellow paint should be scratched and showing some use, but other that that, it looks perfect. Keep up the good work.
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I guess it's the old saying again: "Art is never finished, only abondoned."
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well if this gets abandoned, it doesnt get ingame ;), on the up side, the uv on the dagger is great, and the AO is baked, however on the scimitar I may need to redo the cockpit module uv, its a bit warped right now., only thing needed for the tugs completion is that flaking paint, butI might be able to get help on that