Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: FlamingCobra on November 19, 2011, 06:47:56 pm
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Windows 8 is supposedly being designed for both computers and mobile devices. IMHO, this is a bad idea. Mobile devices and desktops/laptops are totally different, so no one should try to make a "one size fits all" operating system.
Apple realized this, which is why we have Mac OSX and iOS.
I mean, just look at Gnome 3. :shaking:
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I haven't had any direct experience with the Metro UI, but it seems like distaste is starting to build with Microsoft because of it. The demos I've seen make it appear that they are trying to focus on the "future" of touch-based devices. It looks smooth, but I feel like productivity would drop significantly. Contextual menus, windows, and task bars are very quick and easy, I can't grasp what makes them think a desktop with Metro is a good idea. I also have a gut feeling that they will include a "classic" UI later in development; no way they want to alienate huge segments of their user base.
I have no plans on acquiring Windows 8.
I never had plans on acquiring a WinMo phone.
After Microsoft's recent patent behavior in the mobile space I can't justify giving them any more money. Extortion isn't nice.
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If they push towards making tablets a viable user experience that would be able to replace at least laptops, then I think it could be a sound strategy.
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When creating these threads, can you at least research beforehand?
Windows 8 is not designed for mobile devices (I assume you mean smart phones, since you grouped laptops with desktops), Windows Phone 7/8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Phone#Windows_Phone_Tango) is.
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When creating these threads, can you at least research beforehand?
Windows 8 is not designed for mobile devices (I assume you mean smart phones, since you grouped laptops with desktops), Windows Phone 7/8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Phone#Windows_Phone_Tango) is.
Mobile devices include smartphones and tablet PCs.
I haven't had any direct experience with the Metro UI, but it seems like distaste is starting to build with Microsoft because of it. The demos I've seen make it appear that they are trying to focus on the "future" of touch-based devices. It looks smooth, but I feel like productivity would drop significantly. Contextual menus, windows, and task bars are very quick and easy, I can't grasp what makes them think a desktop with Metro is a good idea. I also have a gut feeling that they will include a "classic" UI later in development; no way they want to alienate huge segments of their user base.
I have no plans on acquiring Windows 8.
I never had plans on acquiring a WinMo phone.
After Microsoft's recent patent behavior in the mobile space I can't justify giving them any more money. Extortion isn't nice.
I have no plans of acquiring windows 7 or 8, but I am afraid that I will have to when I go off to college, since my parents (or just my mom, since she's the boss of the household) will get me a new laptop regardless and force me to take it with me. I prefer Vista to windows 7. I hate the way they replaced the icon buttons on the start menu with text buttons. And windows 7's search feature is REALLY REALLY CRAPPY. Microsoft tried real hard to deter you from searching in non-indexed locations.
I referenced Gnome 3 because its design significantly reduces productivity. Hell, any OS made in mind for touchscreens or idiots who don't know jack **** about computers will have significantly reduced productivity. Which makes it hard on the rest of us.
But with the number of computationally retarded people on the rise, companies are pushing toward this kind of thing because they can make more money.
Nothing, and I mean nothing, can beat a keyboard and mouse. Especially not a touchscreen. The only time a touchscreen can beat a keyboard and mouse is when you are signing your name (signature) or when you are drawing. And computers can get a drawing tablet for that.
The only time a gamepad can beat a keyboard and mouse is when precision is required. WSAD just sucks for platforming games. Oh, and, in first person games, having to pick up your mouse when are you are turning around is really bad compared to using a joystick. Especially if you need to move the camera continuously. Like in FreeSpace. A mouse just can't do it in a dogfight.
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Tablets and laptops have similar sizes, so I have no idea why you separate them then...
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I've read too in the PC magazine I get that Windows 8 (or at least the preview version (http://tinyurl.com/windows8preview), but I expect it will be the same in the release one) will include the traditional desktop as well. Explorer is also still there, but with an altered interface (for example, it has the ribbon now, and apparently a nice dialog for multiple copy operations).
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Tablets and laptops have similar sizes, so I have no idea why you separate them then...
Because tablets are designed to use touchscreens and not mouses, touchpads.
I've read too in the PC magazine I get that Windows 8 (or at least the preview version (http://tinyurl.com/windows8preview), but I expect it will be the same in the release one) will include the traditional desktop as well. Explorer is also still there, but with an altered interface (for example, it has the ribbon now, and apparently a nice dialog for multiple copy operations).
:shaking: ............. you mean ........ :shaking: ............ a ribbon like the office ribbon? :shaking:
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And most future laptops are expected to have touch screens, whilst functional tablets come with keyboard docks... I'm not sure where you are getting at...
P.S.
And answering the question in the topic, OS's are expected to support an ever increasing variety of device forms. If you don't like this, you may not like (http://www.barrelfish.org/) the future (http://www.soos-project.eu/).
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:shaking: ............. you mean ........ :shaking: ............ a ribbon like the office ribbon? :shaking:
;)
(http://pcuser.com.au/files/pcuser/imagecache/large/images/2011/Sep/windows_8_explorer.png)
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:shaking: ............. you mean ........ :shaking: ............ a ribbon like the office ribbon? :shaking:
;)
*snip*
Holy crap. What a waste of screen real-estate. I'm hoping it scales better at higher resolutions.
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:shaking: ............. you mean ........ :shaking: ............ a ribbon like the office ribbon? :shaking:
;)
-snip-
bye bye windows! :nod:
And most future laptops are expected to have touch screens, whilst functional tablets come with keyboard docks... I'm not sure where you are getting at...
P.S.
And answering the question in the topic, OS's are expected to support an ever increasing variety of device forms. If you don't like this, you may not like (http://www.barrelfish.org/) the future (http://www.soos-project.eu/).
I'm hoping those laptops will still have mousepads.
Ok, look at it this way. Which takes longer? Moving your hand from your keyboard to your mouse, or moving your hand from your keyboard to your monitor?
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You can minimize the ribbon, notice the chevron near the top right.
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You can minimize the ribbon, notice the chevron near the top right.
Aren't there already utilities that can completely change the UI of Windows?
Like that rain thingamajiggy some people had in the Wallpapery goodness topic?
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I assume explorer (the program) has been extensively modified in Windows 8, hence the tools people use to modify the UI will probably not work. And if the OS has a feature, it's kinda silly to use another program to emulate that feature.
I'm hoping those laptops will still have mousepads.
Ok, look at it this way. Which takes longer? Moving your hand from your keyboard to your mouse, or moving your hand from your keyboard to your monitor?
Laptops and tablets are going to converge in form. And the question about which takes longer is irrelevant (although, answering, it would be about the same), since the mouse and touch screen have different purposes. You won't use your hands directly on the screen if what you want to do requires you not to block your view of the screen, and you won't use the mouse if what you want to do is easier on, for example, a multi-touch screen.
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I'm just saying I can already tell I will hate the entire look and feel of it. Like the new office.
I'll either want to change it, or switch to Linux. With KDE. Or I'll switch to Mac. Mac's not that bad. I'll be running it on PC hardware though.
Oh and this is the future. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cf7IL_eZ38)
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Why don't you try the preview then? It's not like you have to pay for it (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/br229516)...
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I have no plans of acquiring windows 7 or 8, but I am afraid that I will have to when I go off to college, since my parents (or just my mom, since she's the boss of the household) will get me a new laptop regardless and force me to take it with me.
THE MONSTER!
:jaw:
How could she even think of buying you a brand new laptop which you could simply install any operating system you wanted on! You should kill her now to remove this evil from the world! :rolleyes:
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I'll have to make a system backup first.
I have no plans of acquiring windows 7 or 8, but I am afraid that I will have to when I go off to college, since my parents (or just my mom, since she's the boss of the household) will get me a new laptop regardless and force me to take it with me.
THE MONSTER!
:jaw:
How could she even think of buying you a brand new laptop which you could simply install any operating system you wanted on! You should kill her now to remove this evil from the world! :rolleyes:
Linux is the only operating system that you don't have to pay for. And NCSU wants windows or mac.
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The horror of not having to pay for Windows operating systems...
(http://www.wolftech.ncsu.edu/support/support/MSDNAA)
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Well maybe if it's Windows 7 you could at least look for those UI altering utilities.
Linux is the only operating system that you don't have to pay for. And NCSU wants windows or mac.
Stricly speaking, ReactOS is free too, though it's not ready for proper use yet.
The horror of not having to pay for Windows operating systems...
(http://www.wolftech.ncsu.edu/support/support/MSDNAA)
This is where I got my copy of Windows 7 I'm using now (as well as the one on my old laptop, and I also got XP to use on a virtual machine). :) Well, not from NCSU's MSDNAA site, obviously.
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Stricly speaking, ReactOS is free too, though it's not ready for proper use yet.
I could probably name about 5 other OSs that are also free before getting down to ReactOS. :p Seriously, why not start with Unix or BSD? :p
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The horror of not having to pay for Windows operating systems...
(http://www.wolftech.ncsu.edu/support/support/MSDNAA)
That might be how I got a couple of Win7 licenses. :p
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Stricly speaking, ReactOS is free too, though it's not ready for proper use yet.
I could probably name about 5 other OSs that are also free before getting down to ReactOS. :p Seriously, why not start with Unix or BSD? :p
It's the first one that came off the top of my head. :p
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We seem to have gotten off topic.
What happened to the part about productivity?
karajorma, I thought Linux was derived from Unix?
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I'm still stuck on this:
I prefer Vista to windows 7.
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And
Oh, and, in first person games, having to pick up your mouse when are you are turning around is really bad compared to using a joystick.
didn't make you facepalm?
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I'm still stuck on this:
I prefer Vista to windows 7.
Actually, I prefer the Windows 7 operating system but I prefer the windows Vista shell.
Right now, I'm looking at SharpEnviro. Would any of you recommend it?
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I'm still stuck on this:
I prefer Vista to windows 7.
Actually, I prefer the Windows 7 operating system but I prefer the windows Vista shell.
Right now, I'm looking at SharpEnviro. Would any of you recommend it?
SharpEnviro is based 90% around the idea that you might actually want 3,4,5 toolbars all over your screen. Which makes no sense at all.
Also, What? The Vista shell is a huge step BACKWARDS whether you're going XP->Vista or 7->Vista.
There are so many features of the Win7 Shell that just make sense in everyday use, and everything Vista has, 7 has, and has improved on.
And the options are there to set things to look like Vista in 7.
And I agree, the Ribbon is a poor interface design. But there are plenty of ways to get around that, and the sheer benefit of HAVING A FUNCTIONING SYSTEM makes 7 a HUGE improvement over Vista.
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*waits for reactos to go beta*
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And I agree, the Ribbon is a poor interface design.
I find it to be rather usefull. They somehow managed to cram all the features I need in there. (I use Office 2010 free ocasionally, my netbook is a dual boot).
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AAAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Oh man.
The uninformed nerdrage is just fantastic.
FYI: You can turn Windows 8 into a normal, Win7-like desktop OS with a few registry tweaks. It has been hinted that that is what will happen on Desktop/Laptop installs, on tablets and smartphones, you will get the Metro UI. The reason why MS has made Metro the default for the current beta version is to get developers used to developing for it.
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AAAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Oh man.
The uninformed nerdrage is just fantastic.
FYI: You can turn Windows 8 into a normal, Win7-like desktop OS with a few registry tweaks. It has been hinted that that is what will happen on Desktop/Laptop installs, on tablets and smartphones, you will get the Metro UI. The reason why MS has made Metro the default for the current beta version is to get developers used to developing for it.
Very true, all you have to do is point to whatever explorer.exe you want.
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Not even that (http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-8-how-to-re-enable-the-classic-start-menu).
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I prefer Vista to windows 7.
Actually, I prefer the Windows 7 operating system but I prefer the windows Vista shell.
:wakka: :wakka: :wakka: :wakka: :wakka:
For you to ran about productivity and UI design in one breath and say this silliness in another is hilarious. Win7 is leaps and bounds beyond both XP and Vista.
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You can minimize the ribbon, notice the chevron near the top right.
So you can minimize the ribbon and not use anything available on that bar, or you can have it open and have it take up a lot of space. Nice.
Holy crap. What a waste of screen real-estate. I'm hoping it scales better at higher resolutions.
It does not.
............. you mean ........ ............ a ribbon like the office ribbon?
Exactly like the Office Ribbon.
Hell, any OS made in mind for touchscreens or idiots who don't know jack **** about computers will have significantly reduced productivity. Which makes it hard on the rest of us.
This comment, coming from you, makes me laugh so hard it hurts.
Also, I felt the same way going into Win7 from XP. I've grown to like it, and it is very stable. Also, let the poor harddrive index... I eventually turned it off, but search is still more then quick enough even with a non-indexed drive. But hey, I know where most of my files are so I narrow down the folders (search in D:\FreeSpace2\Data\ instead of search in D:\ for example).
That stupid Ribbon can burn in hell though, it isn't usefull for Office and it means no pressing Alt to get file/view/tools/etc (the menu in its entirety basicly) in Explorer. There should at least be a simple option to turn it off.
EDIT: And before someone says "But its better for touchscreen!", No, it is not, I still use a proper menu system on my Inspire 4G (Cyanogen 7) and I can honestly say if I were forced to use a crappy icon system instead of an organized menu system, it would be horrible.
EDIT2: And before I catch any flak along the lines of "you're only saying that because you haven't tried it", yes, I have a VM of it, and i have spent time working with it. Looks to me like 7 will be the new XP and 8 the new ME...
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Perhaps I'll stay with my customized Vista and switch to whatever comes after 8. Though we'll see. Vista also got bad opinions, but after applying all patches, digging in the settings and installing custom programs (not a single program I use daily from MS, except for games and Internet Explorer, which I only use to quickly look something up without opening all the tabs I have in Opera), it became a quite usable, if slightly paranoid system.
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I'll have to make a system backup first.
I have no plans of acquiring windows 7 or 8, but I am afraid that I will have to when I go off to college, since my parents (or just my mom, since she's the boss of the household) will get me a new laptop regardless and force me to take it with me.
THE MONSTER!
:jaw:
How could she even think of buying you a brand new laptop which you could simply install any operating system you wanted on! You should kill her now to remove this evil from the world! :rolleyes:
Linux is the only operating system that you don't have to pay for. And NCSU wants windows or mac.
NCSU does not care what OS you have on your own computer. They RECOMMEND certain things, but take those recommendations with a grain of salt.
and by the way, probably half of NCSU's lab computers run linux. nearly ALL of the engineering department does. there's even a mandatory introductory course for engineering in which they teach getting around the linux setup.