Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: LHN91 on December 06, 2011, 07:41:09 pm
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I'll just leave this here.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/12/05/ea-origin-bans-update-edition/
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i refuse to play any game where i can not say words like **** or **** on the forum.
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as much as EA sucks and this is wrong, i can't help but think that a huge portion of these affected players genuinely got what was coming to them.
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I'm inclined to agree, at least in the multiplayer portions of games. But what I don't agree with is the fact that they are also apparently locked out of playing single player as well. If you read the thread linked in the article, Apparently the person is even blocked from playing EA games (Bad Company 2) he purchased from Steam.
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as much as EA sucks and this is wrong, i can't help but think that a huge portion of these affected players genuinely got what was coming to them.
yes, but banning people from playing a game that they spent money on for something they did in the forum kinda sounds like a cheap way to cheat your customers. even if they troll the **** out of the forum they shouldn't be allowed to forfeit their valid license to use the software. the fact that they even go as far as banning you from single player is ****ing evil. when i hear **** like this it really turns me off from wanting to buy any games for them. if there is one thing i dont like is the trend of anti-consumer policies being adopted by the games industry in the last several years.
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The best part is how a game that they're also locked out of a game they bought on a completely different service, i.e. Steam. That's a very special sort of bull****.
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This is why it's becoming less surprising every day that more people are buying single player games and then removing the DRM. Not that I would directly admit or advocate that kind of activity, of course.
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Can I ask: why do people buy EA anymore? I mean really, I keep reading these posts, here and on other sites, *****ing about EA's service, customer support, etc...yet people still buy their games? Why?
Granted, I have one more game I'm going to buy from EA, unless they do something ridiculous to it: Mass Effect 3. I'm so invested in the series, I really want to see how it ends. But that's it, and I know what I'm getting into; I'm not going to use their forums, I'm going to avoid their ****ty Origin service as much as possible, and once I'm done with the game I'm done with EA.
Really, with gamers it's like crack addicts, it's disgusting sometimes. Anyone remember that whole thing with COD:MW2 or whatever, with the Steam "we're not going to buy MW2" all playing it on release day?
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the "stupidity of the masses" effect in the gaming industry is rivaled only by that of the music industry. it doesn't surprise me a bit that the vast majority of consumers will just roll over and take it, and therefore it doesn't surprise me that the companies continue on what seems to those of us with some sense to be a self-destructive path. why should they fix things, when they are turning their profits anyway?
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I can't see why some of those users can't sue the **** out of EA, seriously.
Most exceptional perhaps is Aaron, who after receiving a 72 hour ban was told by EA support they couldn’t help because “the game developers control this”. Pardon? His crime? Someone else swearing on the forum, with his username in their post. Trying the live chat support instead, he was then informed that his account was permanently banned, and that “all property, items, and characters associated currently are or will soon be deleted.” Followed by, “Is there anything else I can do for you?” Aaron tried again, pointing out that forum bans shouldn’t affect games. And then came this incredible reply:
“Please be informed that your account not only suspended, But it is also Banned, So you will no longer to play the game in single player.”
He should be laughing his way to the courthouse...
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This is why "some people" pirate EA games.
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the story at the bottom is the worst case of justification and customer service i've ever seen. if EA doesn't lift these bans in time then i'm betting the hacktivists will counterattack :nervous:.
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This is utterly ridiculous. Locking out of singleplayer? God damn
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Let's all hope Steam never falls this down. I have to remind myself of double-checking games I buy whether they are EA's and even more if they require Origin. I really want Mass Effect 3 though, but now I'm not too sure about that. I'll have to see how things are when ME3 comes out. One thing is for sure, I will definitely play it through at least once. It's up to EA whether they'll get anything from me for it though, I wish I could reward Bioware while skipping EA. The devs deserve it.
And that comes from someone who does not currently have a single pirated game or software stored anywhere digitally or otherwise.
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the story at the bottom is the worst case of justification and customer service i've ever seen. if EA doesn't lift these bans in time then i'm betting the hacktivists will counterattack :nervous:.
I'm in customer service, among others; If I respond to customers in that manner I'd probably be 'banned' from my job in no time.
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The only way to send them a message is to not buy their stuff and be vocal as to why you don't intend to buy it. It's easy to be a prick to everyone when your profits are up. When they start going down, they'll be forced to look into why that's happening and maybe fire some of the asshats responsible.
I don't like UbiSoft's dick move with "must stay connected at all times" on certain games. Even though I'd have liked to try some of them, the DRM scheme made it unacceptable to me. I don't want more games to use this kind of "must check every single second whether the game you paid us for is stolen" kind of scheme, so I don't want to support that scheme. I know it can be tempting to try the latest shiny game that piqued your interest, but people really need to learn to control themselves and simply not buy stuff that basically throws their consumer rights out the window. Hurt their profits by not buying their stuff. That's a message they'll understand best.
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I see it exactly as "unknown target". I must have Mass Effect 3, it's impossible for me to not play this game. And I will buy it, to support Bioware (one of the best gaming smith around), but i will certainly not buy anything else from EA.
And I will definitly NOT install Origin. After I bought the game, I will play it with a crack.
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Let's all hope Steam never falls this down.
That's the risk you take with any system that includes an online component to its DRM.
Which is one reason why I completely avoid them. Give me liberty or give me something else instead for my money. :p
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Steam has so far been rather non-jackass-ish regarding DRM. I used to dislike it but I changed my mind. To get a game, I don't have to stand in line with a bunch of pimple-faced kiddies sneezing on me. I can go from deciding to buy to actually playing a game in as much time as is needed to download a game. Usually not too long with today's speeds. I always have the games I bought. I can't lose it's box. I can't have the DVD scratched and rendered unusable. I can't lose the CD key because the dog ate the piece of paper it was printed on. Hell I even have access to my savegames no matter what machine I access my account from. Of course, no system is perfect and Steam does have it's downsides - but the convenience it gives me is something I consider worth it.
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i cant use steam till the internet providers in this state support unlimited transfer. i prefer the hard copy approach for now. i have a system. i take a sharpie, and write the cd key right on the silkscreen of the disk. that way no loosing it. i then make a backup and file away the original (i use disc visualization whenever possible to avoid damaging media and not needing to flip discs ever, physical copy when that fails, and nocd crack otherwise). but i bought it and i dont feel that any of this is wrong.
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I'm planning to send my copy of BF3 to their Redmond offices, along with an inclosed piece of paper containing various profanities, along with my origin username. I can't get a refund, but I'll settle for being banned. I feel like ****, having given them money, even though I saw all that stuff on Reddit about how they treat their customers. "Hey, it's BF3. You NEED to have it." won out for some reason, though.
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Oh, BioWare, why did you have to cut a deal with EA? You're the only reason I end up giving them money.
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Oh, BioWare, why did you have to cut a deal with EA? You're the only reason I end up giving them money.
Apperently because EA got themselves a new CEO at that time, who was also responsible for the "Bioware-Pandemic" merge. So they apperently rather liked the guy and wanted acces to EAs massive amount of resources.
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...and wanted acces to EAs massive amount of resources.
This. I guess, sorta like the "deal with the devil" thing :doubt:
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Stuff like this is sad, because not only does it shy people away from buying games they might like (unless they're the type that "roll over and take it"), but it also harms the developers too. I mean, some of you have talked about MW3 and supporting Bioware, who would otherwise miss out because of these EA shenanigans.
I mean, this has made me reconsider buying Battlefield 3, despite being blown away by QuantumDelta's video of the flight stuff on his YouTube channel (I wasn't sure whether I was going to buy it anyway, but I looked at this "Origin" thing on my computer to see what it was - I have NFS Shift, Hot Pursuit 2k10 and Shift 2 so that's probably how it found itself there - and saw on the update screen "REQUIRED FOR BATTLEFIELD 3). And I'm seriously considering getting a Wii so was thinking of having a look at the Wii version of NFS Nitro.
Also, in regards to why people still buy EA stuff, I would assume that some people simply don't know about stuff like this. Heck I wouldn't have known if I hadn't decided to look in this thread.
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Steam has so far been rather non-jackass-ish regarding DRM.
I often see this defence of Steam but I never seem to see anyone considering what happens if another company, let's say EA, bought Valve.
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If it happens, then it happens. Steam wouldn't disappear anywhere overnight and Valve or whoever buys Valve out is as far as I know, required to ensure that the games stay available to customers with same end-user and license agreements they were bought with. EA or another company should not be able to **** it up in a way where customers would be unable to play their games.
Likewise you're free to consider what happens if you get run over by a truck three months from now or the plane you're on drops somewhere over Atlantic six months from now. All three are equally stupid to worry about, if it happens then it happens and **** does happen. But if you have insurance, it should cover your family's ass to get through the worst like you have time to see and prepare if such a buyout is announced.
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I've been using origin for Bf3 and I personally have not had a single problem with it thus far.
I would like to think that these sort of ban related issues are more oversights than intentional. EA is a large company and Origin is relatively new therefore, dubious mistakes are not unlikely. I'm sure these sort of mistakes will be cleared up as the Origin team gets more experienced. It would be utterly stupid of them to intentionally drive away customers for no good reason.
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a lot of things that are utterly stupid happen anyway in the gaming industry. and if it IS unintentional and the fault of origin, then i still put it on their heads for forcing origin's use.
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E.A is famous for shutting down servers when they cease being profitable
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If it happens, then it happens. Steam wouldn't disappear anywhere overnight and Valve or whoever buys Valve out is as far as I know, required to ensure that the games stay available to customers with same end-user and license agreements they were bought with. EA or another company should not be able to **** it up in a way where customers would be unable to play their games.
That's really, really naive and makes you sound like a person who doesn't read his license agreements before accepting them. In fact, Section 9 C of the Steam user agreement:
NO GUARANTEES.
VALVE DOES NOT GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S).
In other words, Valve (or anybody who buys them) is not liable for outages and can cut off access to Steam or any of "your" games without having to worry about breach of contract. You do not buy games through Steam; you do not buy a license to play games through Steam; you rent a license to play them for as long as Valve is both willing and able to provide the service.
I'll bookend this post by saying that what Steam does for wide distribution of less-well-funded games is awesome, but it's still a scummy service that can be further (and maliciously) exploited by people scummier than the current operators of the service.
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That and other reasons is why I've started to look to other options for buying games. Unfortunately a lot of games these days won't let you play them without Steam if they're Steam enabled, whether or not you buy the hard copy.
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I guess that if I'll ever want to play Crysis 2, I'll pirate it. EA is really getting ridiculous. Crysis 2 was taken off Steam, because EA didn't wanted to comply with Steam policy.
Steam is good, because you can run it (and most of the games on it) in offline mode. Nobody could lock you out of SP if they can't connect with the game in question and tell it to stop working. Even if something bad happens to Steam, I could just switch it to offline mode and keep playing (and don't let it update). I don't think that Steam is capable of deleting a game from your HD if you won't tell it to do so, and even if it could do that, programs like COMODO will ask you if you want allow that.
Another nice thing about it is that it doesn't seem likely that Valve will be bought out, as Steam is generating tremendous profits for them. Last thing they would want to do it to ruin it's reputation. I think that compared to other such services, it's quite safe. Of course, having a hard copy is the best (and it looks good on the shelf), but normal stores don't usually give you 75% discounts anytime they can find an excuse to do so.
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Cause companies that are making money never get bought out. :p
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you sound like a person who doesn't read his license agreements before accepting them
Correct, I hardly ever do. Most people don't.
In addition, even if Steam closes down a year from now and no way to access the games after that, I probably will be slightly annoyed but it wouldn't really matter. The games I've bought I usually finish once and after that I'm not touching them. So unless Steam closes down while I have yet to finish a game, it wouldn't really affect me in any significant way.
Don't forget that the same thing applies to consoles too. All consoles rely on the service provided by the respective owner companies. If they decide to pull the plug, most of your shiny hard-copy console games are nothing more than glorified frisbees. Sooner or later Sony and Microsoft are going to decide that it is no longer profitable to maintain PSN and Xbox Live for current generation of consoles. I doubt that is going to happen for the next decade, but it eventually does. Unless of course Sony goes bankrupt. Not even going to mention MS in the same sentence as bankrupt.
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The comment above me prompted me to look into how much it costs for the companies to run those services
Haven't found anything regarding that yet
As for things shutting down and you losing everything, not entirely true. Valve will more than likely come out with a fashion for the essence of Steam to remain intact, but no longer have to deal with it. As I see it, Steam is simply a glorified game launcher. It has the addition of a store and a community, but in essence, it launches your games
In regards to consoles, you lose the online aspect but not the ability to play the games. Sure, online only games (example being Warhawk) become dead weight, but you still have lan capabilities and singleplayer
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This is why it's becoming less surprising every day that more people are buying single player games and then removing the DRM. Not that I would directly admit or advocate that kind of activity, of course.
I would. EA can suck my c****.
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There must be some kind of contest going on between certain game companies, wherein a huge cash prize is given to the most evil company by a particular date.
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I really hate EA, but I'll never give up the BF franchise, DICE are just too amazing.
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That's the biggest problem with EA, they would be easier to boycott if they weren't controlling Mass Effect and Battlefield franchises.
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You could always, you know, not buy those games. If you aren't willing to go without the product even when you know what kind of crap it's coming with beforehand you shouldn't be complaining.
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That's only true assuming perfect information. As it is, people who buy the games don't know that they could lose them without warning or refund.
On the other hand, I guess that does exclude anyone who's reading this thread, heh. :P
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This is why it's becoming less surprising every day that more people are buying single player games and then removing the DRM. Not that I would directly admit or advocate that kind of activity, of course.
I would. EA can suck my c****.
I haven't been around these forums for too long, so I'm not entirely comfortable with some of the unwritten policies. The only other forums community I've really been active in in the past has been the Escapist mag, and they're very touchy about the subject of piracy there. Even mentioning it offhand can get you banhammered.
But more on-topic: Both EA and Activision seem to have having a contest to see who can be a bigger dick to their customers. EA seemed to actually be coming around, until they came out with Origin. I think when Mass Effect 3 comes out, I'm just gonna send a $60 check to BioWare and pirate the game. Origins or whatever that godawful thing is will never taint my hard drive.
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I haven't been around these forums for too long, so I'm not entirely comfortable with some of the unwritten policies. The only other forums community I've really been active in in the past has been the Escapist mag, and they're very touchy about the subject of piracy there. Even mentioning it offhand can get you banhammered.
You are correct in that suggesting piracy has incurred bans here before.
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My own interpretation of the rules regarding piracy is this:
The discussion of Piracy is not a crime, the facilitating of it is. Whilst we welcome discussion on most subjects, and are prepared to accept pro-piracy viewpoints as an opinion like any other, the linking, naming or other identification of piracy sites is not tolerated without a damn good reason (For example, mainstream stories involving the Website of the Pirate Party in Sweden, which I shall not name for fear of stabbing myself with irony). It is not the Moderators job to judge the posters viewpoints, merely their behaviour whilst expressing them.
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My own interpretation of the rules regarding piracy is this:
The discussion of Piracy is not a crime, the facilitating of it is. Whilst we welcome discussion on most subjects, and are prepared to accept pro-piracy viewpoints as an opinion like any other, the linking, naming or other identification of piracy sites is not tolerated without a damn good reason (For example, mainstream stories involving the Website of the Pirate Party in Sweden, which I shall not name for fear of stabbing myself with irony). It is not the Moderators job to judge the posters viewpoints, merely their behaviour whilst expressing them.
IT'S LIKE YOUR TOYING WITH OUR VERY LIVES MAAAN
WE ALL HANG IN THE BALANCE OF YOUR ALL POWERFULNESS
*subtlety posts pirated whatever link*
www.nopiratedthingsheresheeshsuchlowfaithinmeyouhaveD:.com
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LoL..GlobalMods...
(Sorry Flipside :p , and you're quite right in your interpretation - but that's not an open invite for folks to see how far they can push it, k? :) )
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Pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates MUSHROOM MUSHROOM pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates pirates MUSHROOMMUSHROOM...!
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YAR-HAR FITTLE DE DE! BEING A PIRATE IS ALL RIGHT TO BE.
DO WHAT YOU WANT CAUSE A PIRATE IS FREE!
YOU. ARE. A PIRATE!
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I actually make a point to buy all my games, music, etc. I used to pirate stuff a lot, but then I made it a habit to purchase things. I actually like it a bit more, it's more of a feeling of accomplishment and enjoyment when playing the game when you know that you worked hard to get the money to pay for it. It also means that I only play games I'm really excited for and interested in, rather than discarding them like used tissue paper for the next fix.
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Don't forget that the same thing applies to consoles too. All consoles rely on the service provided by the respective owner companies. If they decide to pull the plug, most of your shiny hard-copy console games are nothing more than glorified frisbees.
AFAIK console games don't rely on an online component in order to play Singleplayer. DRM enabled PC games do.
More importantly though the big problem isn't Valve suddenly shutting off Steam if they get taken over. The big problem is that there is always the possibility that they could simply increase the pervasiveness of their DRM via a steady stream of more invasive DRM. My problem with Steam (and any system with couples DRM to the multiplayer system) is that if they decide to update their client to a more repressive one you have two choices, 1) install it and put up with all that **** or 2) Lose access to multiplayer for all your Steam games. The irony of course being that the more loyal a Steam customer you have been, the greater their ability to **** on you.
Worse still, even if you do choose 2, you lose any ability to ever upgrade your PC as the newer client will be required in order to verify all your games on the new PC.
If you only play games once, fine. This doesn't affect you. But there are lot of people it does affect.
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I actually make a point to buy all my games, music, etc. I used to pirate stuff a lot, but then I made it a habit to purchase things. I actually like it a bit more, it's more of a feeling of accomplishment and enjoyment when playing the game when you know that you worked hard to get the money to pay for it. It also means that I only play games I'm really excited for and interested in, rather than discarding them like used tissue paper for the next fix.
I'm sort of the same, I used to not care about having pirated copies of software (as in, giving to and taking copies of CDs from friends and family), but now I prefer to get a legitimate copy of games. Pirating stuff doesn't appeal to me now, and I'd also prefer to err on the safe side of caution. Granted I don't buy new games often now days.
It's also satisfying for me to get a real copy of an older game, especially if it's a physical one (though I might make an ISO image to preserve the original disk and use Daemon Tools).
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The big problem is that there is always the possibility that they could simply increase the pervasiveness of their DRM via a steady stream of more invasive DRM.
DRM in many non-Steam games are already more pervasive than Steam. And some of those games may even use custom online authentication on launch and whatever and thus require internet access anyway and that would give them the option to update their DRM too. Then there are services like Live that pushes the updates down your throat what may also update DRM. So regardless of whether the game uses Steam or not, there is always the risk of DRM changing. Number of games that do not make use of services like Steam or Live are shrinking every year. Even on consoles.
It is a possibility that Steam could someday **** up their customers with some stupid DRM stunt or something. But please do remember what kind of DRM stunts other companies have pulled to date. I dare say Steam is the lesser evil here. I just don't see the point in such FUD when those hard copies you buy already have worse DRM than Steam RIGHT NOW. Isn't the situation you have now far more important than situation that could be but not necessarily will be a year from now?
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the worst DRM i've seen on a hard copy that didn't force steam, windows live or some other "service" on me is a simple CD key and a disk check. enter cd key once, get a crack from <redacted> to disable the disk check, which is completely legal if you own the game. steam and similar services nag me with a bunch of **** i don't want. i have to register accounts i don't want that give me DUMB features i don't need, trying to sell me a "better" account i REALLY don't need, all to install and play a game that i have a gd disk for. the first time i installed a game that required steam (a fact that was not advertised and i was unaware of), it even went so far as to ignore the disk that was in the fking drive and DOWNLOAD the game to install it. steam is fine as a pure distribution system. i've purchased 5 or so really cheap games from the sales. but it doesn't need to be all up in my store-bought physical copies.
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There must be some kind of contest going on between certain game companies, wherein a huge cash prize is given to the most evil company by a particular date.
(http://megatokyo.com/strips/0033.gif)
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I find that EA is an insult to business and via extension capitalism in general. (albiet monitored capitalism, so that crazy, greedy megacapitalists like those people in good ol' MERICA can monopolise stuff and ruin people's lives)
So yeah. This is isn't a surprise. :rolleyes:
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I disagree. I think that EA tries to provide their costumers with a good experience, but is so heavy handed in their approach that innocents are getting hit, and because they are just so homongenous, they fail to see the problem. This is causing them a lot of bad press, which is awfull for a gaming company.
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I find that EA is an insult to business and via extension capitalism in general.
I think EA is a wonderful example of business and capitalism in general. Maybe you don't understand what capitalism actually means?
I disagree. I think that EA tries to provide their costumers with a good experience, but is so heavy handed in their approach that innocents are getting hit, and because they are just so homongenous, they fail to see the problem. This is causing them a lot of bad press, which is awfull for a gaming company.
Uhhh, No. EA's desire to provide a good experience for their customers is second to their desire to make some money. Please remember that EA has stopped being a games company a long time ago, and has since mutated into a media company that is run with the same sense of entitlement that the RIAA and MPAA stand for. The executives that make the rules we are complaining about are as far removed from common gamers as the Earth is from the Moon.
This is in marked contrast to companies like Valve or CD Projekt.
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I often see this defence of Steam but I never seem to see anyone considering what happens if another company, let's say EA, bought Valve.
Your scenario is roughly as sane and logical as if my net worth were suddenly to be measured by the number of lolcat pictures stored on my hard drive.
You posit a very-low-order-of-probability hypothetical in the face of a certainty; Steam is the least-intrusive and least-troublesome form of DRM currently being pushed by anyone of consequence, with the added bonus that it also allows the cheap purchase of games and removes the necessity of physical media. Why should we even treat your commentary as serious?
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how is requiring a third party application to be installed to run a game you bought a physical copy of less invasive than just entering a flippin CD key? whether you like all the extra crap that comes with steam or not, there's no denying it's intrusive.
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What really makes me laugh is the "Steam is the least invasive kind of DRM" argument. It's like arguing that being smacked in the testicles with a mallet is better than a sledgehammer with someone who is saying "I don't like getting smacked in the testicles!"
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What really makes me laugh is the "Steam is the least invasive kind of DRM" argument. It's like arguing that being smacked in the testicles with a mallet is better than a sledgehammer with someone who is saying "I don't like getting smacked in the testicles!"
Well you can look at it this way... Steam may smack you in the testicles, but EA ripps em off and makes you eat them ;)
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his point being, don't let either of them do that.
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I think the majority of us would argue that Steam doesn't involve any nut-smacking by and large, and in fact provides several tangible benefits, even on top of the regular crazy-awesome sales. For instance, having an IM client/social-networking function built right into the service is quite frankly a godsend. I've never come across anything Steam does that has inconvenienced me more than having to enter a CD key during installation, or needing to keep a game disk in my drive while playing, both of which I'd label non-issues.
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You could provide those benefits without the DRM aspect though. Again, it's like arguing the mallet is okay as long as they buy you flowers afterwards. :p
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Again, it's like arguing the mallet is okay as long as they buy you flowers afterwards. :p
It's more like a ping-pong paddle than a mallet, really. And she's doing a lot more than just buying flowers after, if you don't mind my abusing the metaphor. Seriously, it's a pain in the butt sometimes, but it's a lot of fun, too, as long as you don't end up with ropeburn.
*Note: This post is not necessarily reflective of my personal recreational habits.*
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what a lot of you call benefits i personally call annoying bloat. if you want them, by all means download steam. i've got nothing against that. the ONLY reason steam is on my computer is because it was forced on there by a physical copy of a game. and the only reason they did that is so they could advertise with it. that, i DO have something against.
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You could provide those benefits without the DRM aspect though. Again, it's like arguing the mallet is okay as long as they buy you flowers afterwards. :p
But when you have a DRM scheme as benign and unobtrusive as Steam's, is there even any malevolence to it in the first place? I certainly appreciate the GOG.com sentiment as much as the next fellow, but I also don't view the general concept of DRM, at least as far as its basic intentions go, as being an inherent evil. Hell, while GOG.com is doing well, there was just an article the other day estimating that The Witcher 2 had been torrented about 4 million times, give or take. If a publisher takes some basic step to prevent that, as long as it doesn't get in the way of my gaming experience in any sense, I'm not exactly going to mind it.
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I often see this defence of Steam but I never seem to see anyone considering what happens if another company, let's say EA, bought Valve.
Your scenario is roughly as sane and logical as if my net worth were suddenly to be measured by the number of lolcat pictures stored on my hard drive.
You posit a very-low-order-of-probability hypothetical in the face of a certainty; Steam is the least-intrusive and least-troublesome form of DRM currently being pushed by anyone of consequence, with the added bonus that it also allows the cheap purchase of games and removes the necessity of physical media. Why should we even treat your commentary as serious?
Never underestimate the ability of management (or new management) to wreck a brilliantly successful system.
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Steam stops being "benign and unobtrusive" when it wants to update and I'm on a network that doesn't have that port open. Result: I can't play any of my games.
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Steam stops being "benign and unobtrusive" when it wants to update and I'm on a network that doesn't have that port open. Result: I can't play any of my games.
Yup... on a desktop I think Steam is "ok" as far as the user experience goes... but on a laptop without constant internet connection I would definitely agree that it can be very annoying.
Hell, while GOG.com is doing well, there was just an article the other day estimating that The Witcher 2 had been torrented about 4 million times, give or take. If a publisher takes some basic step to prevent that, as long as it doesn't get in the way of my gaming experience in any sense, I'm not exactly going to mind it.
While I do not know how well the Witcher did, I'd just like to point out that "torrent numbers" are completely irrelevant. First... any game with DRM gets torrented within the week of release too, if not earlier. Second... what matters is sales numbers. And while you can argue that "the pirates would have bought it if it had DRM" (very doubtful LOL), you can as well argue that the DRM costs you sales by alieniating your honest customers.
There are quite a couple of games that I do not buy (and not pirate either) because of some a**hat DRM scheme... their loss. There are way too many games to play them all, so if one publisher thinks they can annoy their customers too much.... I simply go buy and play something else.
Here's their take btw: http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/11/29/interview-cd-projekts-ceo-on-witcher-2-piracy-why-drms-still-not-worth-it/
Dunno about you... but I'm more than happy to buy their games. The Witcher 2 was not only fantastic... it could be bought without being screwed over by any DRM as well. Win Win in my eyes;)
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Steam stops being "benign and unobtrusive" when it wants to update and I'm on a network that doesn't have that port open. Result: I can't play any of my games.
Well, then wait until you're on a sane network to update. There's a lovely offline mode in the meantime.
And Mikes, I do agree and understand that the whole DRM/piracy/whatever picture is far more complex than my pithy statement made it out to be. My underlying point was that I do understand the sentiment behind companies wanting to attempt to protect their works, even if the vast majority of the modern attempts at it are irritating at best and horrific at worst. CD Projekt has taken a fairly unique approach to the problem with GOG.com, one I certainly applaud them for and greatly appreciate. Valve has taken a somewhat-different approach with Steam, making the DRM about as unobtrusive as possible while adding a significant amount of value to the overall gaming experience, at least in my own opinion. I don't view either method as being more correct than the other, just different, and I'll happily utilize both.
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Steam stops being "benign and unobtrusive" when it wants to update and I'm on a network that doesn't have that port open. Result: I can't play any of my games.
Well, then wait until you're on a sane network to update. There's a lovely offline mode in the meantime.
some of us dont have access to sane networks. even the internet i pay for probably couldn't handle the demands steam would place on it. all the computers on my router eat up 1/4 of my transfer cap just to keep the os and virus scanners up to date (i even gone as far as disabling updates on some of the machines). having to keep games up to date, and even downloading games i bought through the service would cripple my internet connection. i know gamers that have it worse off than me as well. the whole thing where you have to have an internet connection to play games. some games and services that sport an offline option still require occasional validations over the internet. which is a real pita for rural gamers.
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Steam stops being "benign and unobtrusive" when it wants to update and I'm on a network that doesn't have that port open. Result: I can't play any of my games.
Well, then wait until you're on a sane network to update. There's a lovely offline mode in the meantime.
some of us dont have access to sane networks. even the internet i pay for probably couldn't handle the demands steam would place on it. all the computers on my router eat up 1/4 of my transfer cap just to keep the os and virus scanners up to date...
snip...
which is a real pita for rural gamers.
I feel so glad that I can just drive for twenty minutes to hop on the high-speed wifi at the coffeeshop in town. Thank you for reminding me how much worse off I could be.
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Steam stops being "benign and unobtrusive" when it wants to update and I'm on a network that doesn't have that port open. Result: I can't play any of my games.
Well, then wait until you're on a sane network to update. There's a lovely offline mode in the meantime.
some of us dont have access to sane networks. even the internet i pay for probably couldn't handle the demands steam would place on it. all the computers on my router eat up 1/4 of my transfer cap just to keep the os and virus scanners up to date...
snip...
which is a real pita for rural gamers.
I feel so glad that I can just drive for twenty minutes to hop on the high-speed wifi at the coffeeshop in town. Thank you for reminding me how much worse off I could be.
i still think its asinine to require your users to do such a thing to use a product that they bought. we dont have coffee shops and if we did they would have the same ****ty connection that i have. my brother in law out in the sticks has no internet at all, and hes a bigger gamer than i am. he mostly resorts to playing newer games on consoles dispute having a fairly decent gaming rig. the reason he has to do this is because most off the shelf games require internet access to keep running. i mean some games work fine but its kinda like playing russian roulette. spend $60 on a game, break the shrink wrap (at which point the game is non-refundable) and hope like hell it can run off grid. its quite sad.
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Steam stops being "benign and unobtrusive" when it wants to update and I'm on a network that doesn't have that port open. Result: I can't play any of my games.
Well, then wait until you're on a sane network to update. There's a lovely offline mode in the meantime.
Offline mode doesn't work. It detects that there's an update available, and tries to install it. I wait for it to realize it can't connect, and then it offers to let me play offline. Offers, but doesn't actually let me.
The only workaround would be to check their website every time I want to play a game, see if there has been an update, and if there has, turn off my internet connection completely before trying to run the game. Which is stupid. I paid for it and it's on my hard drive, so I should be able to play it, anytime, anywhere.
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This happened to me once, and I think it's just a glitch (and it worked just fine, later). You are supposed to be able to run offline mode in such case. If you can't, try reporting it to Valve, chance are they'll fix that. Steam isn't perfect, but it's the best such platform we have. And Valve is improving it constantly. Compared to other DRM systems, I consider it very comfortable to use. Battlefield 3, for example, requires a constant internet connection (according to what I've read on the box) and let's not get started with Starforce or other such systems.
Steam would enter all CD keys for you and provide it's own DRM system instead of ones like Starforce (which makes me consider getting DCS via Steam). I'm not sure about games such as BF3 working in offline mode, but I don't intend to play BF3, except if Steam makes it available for chump change in a time when Euro would be cheap and Polish Zloty strong. (I prefer ArmA games anyway, they are more realistic and only use CD key as DRM).
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No offense to those living in rural areas, but that demonstrates precisely why I would make good broadband access the top priority when choosing a new residence. And it has nothing to do with just Steam...if I can't even use YouTube properly, there's something wrong. :p
And yes, if offline mode isn't working with a particular game, then that's unintended behavior, and contacting Steam support might be a good idea.
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What really makes me laugh is the "Steam is the least invasive kind of DRM" argument. It's like arguing that being smacked in the testicles with a mallet is better than a sledgehammer with someone who is saying "I don't like getting smacked in the testicles!"
I actually find Steam to be more irritating than the other DRM systems in some ways. I hate how it's in your face all the time, with the big ads it shows every time I start it up, not allowing me to choose install directories/drives and the random client or game auto-patching, the latter of which can occur even after I disable it for a game. Most other types of DRM at least stay in the background. I only use it for a few games that require it with the retail version (and which I don't play often enough to bother finding cracked exes for) and some sub-$5 throwaway purchases.
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No offense to those living in rural areas, but that demonstrates precisely why I would make good broadband access the top priority when choosing a new residence. And it has nothing to do with just Steam...if I can't even use YouTube properly, there's something wrong. :p
And yes, if offline mode isn't working with a particular game, then that's unintended behavior, and contacting Steam support might be a good idea.
But for those who grew up either in an area with none (like I did), or alternatively those (like me now) who have broadband for school, but when I spend, say Christmas, with my parents, they don't see the point in getting anything better than the $2.95/month discount dialup. It's kinda hard to update a steam game over dialup.
EDIT: And while steam USED to be good about working in offline mode, I've had several times more recently, though, where when away from the internet, I get constant errors trying to get into offline more.
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I hate how it's in your face all the time, with the big ads it shows every time I start it up
Steam -> settings -> interface -> notify me
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EDIT: And while steam USED to be good about working in offline mode, I've had several times more recently, though, where when away from the internet, I get constant errors trying to get into offline more.
The best solution would be again, reporting it to Valve. They're pretty good about fixing bugs in Steam. And if a particular game doesn't work, check the forums.
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Steam is the reason I've never played HalfLife 2...
....
....
....
On PC.
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I've got a nice 6 Mbps DSL line, perfectly reliable, I still think steam requiring you to update your game is stupid as hell. They're never small downloads either, no, its always some 50-175MB file, and with how often I play any one game, there is always an update waiting for me. Sorta kills that 'Spur of the moment' gaming, as by the time its done downloading you're not in the mood anymore, or found something else. Installing a game from disk? Here's another 1.5GB worth of updates on top of that.
I've also never gotten steam to play nice in offline mode, not in the years sinse I got Half-Life 2. Now, granted, I don't play that often, but I have installed a few games on my laptop, went on a road trip and... oh right, steam... sat there and listened to music untill we got someplace close enough to wifi for me to start the game. Which, when going south through Illinois (all farm land) is a nice long wait.
To top it off, I really could not care less about anything 'special' steam offers. Ingame chat? Waste of CPU power. Game launcher? Waste of RAM space. Advertisements after closing every game, or waiting for verification of my ID to play? Waste of my time. It is a download client that I can buy games from, remembers what games I own, and my keys for them. That is all, and everything else is bloat with no off switch.
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Just wanted to add, now that I think about it, the only times I've managed to get steam to cooperate in Offline mode was when I remembered to grab the updates and put it into Offline mode when I still had an internet connection. If steam had a connection last time it started and was in online mode when it was shut down, it refuses to start in Offline mode.
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offline mode just irritates me even more. it doesn't really go offline. it still checked for client updates, but then wouldn't install them after i said yes. and i does that stupid nag window every time you start a game, "are you SURE you want to start offline? cuz, ya know, we can show you all kinds of other stuff to buy if you just click this little 'no' button over here...."
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No offense to those living in rural areas, but that demonstrates precisely why I would make good broadband access the top priority when choosing a new residence. And it has nothing to do with just Steam...if I can't even use YouTube properly, there's something wrong. :p
And yes, if offline mode isn't working with a particular game, then that's unintended behavior, and contacting Steam support might be a good idea.
no, im not moving so that i can play games that i bought.
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I hate how it's in your face all the time, with the big ads it shows every time I start it up
Steam -> settings -> interface -> notify me
I can't see how their sale ads are supposed to be "updates to your games" as that option indicates, but it's good that you can get rid of those.
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Hell, while GOG.com is doing well, there was just an article the other day estimating that The Witcher 2 had been torrented about 4 million times, give or take.
They have plans to make money from that too: http://torrentfreak.com/drm-free-witcher-2-cashes-in-on-bittorrent-pirates-111207/
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I actually find Steam to be more irritating than the other DRM systems in some ways.
I tend to agree. I just thought that the argument was stupid even if you don't consider it to be more annoying. What I find especially hilarious is that the kind of sophistry being practiced here would be looked down up were the subject anything other than Steam.
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Hell, while GOG.com is doing well, there was just an article the other day estimating that The Witcher 2 had been torrented about 4 million times, give or take.
They have plans to make money from that too: http://torrentfreak.com/drm-free-witcher-2-cashes-in-on-bittorrent-pirates-111207/
!!! :nervous:
:warp:
j/k: I've never played a witcher game in my life.
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I actually find Steam to be more irritating than the other DRM systems in some ways.
I tend to agree. I just thought that the argument was stupid even if you don't consider it to be more annoying. What I find especially hilarious is that the kind of sophistry being practiced here would be looked down up were the subject anything other than Steam.
Steam is the most irritating form of DRM that I use. This is because it makes it just barely under the threshold of 'I will burn that to a disc so that I can light the disc on fire' irritation, and is therefore the only form of DRM that I'll use.
Also, didn't this thread used to be about EA and how much they suck? Because they totally do, or at least did a year ago when I last tried to install any of their games. (eventually leading to said fire incident. I love having a woodstove around sometimes.)
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It did, but everyone agrees that they suck so there's not much to debate there. :p
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Can I ask: why do people buy EA anymore? I mean really, I keep reading these posts, here and on other sites, *****ing about EA's service, customer support, etc...yet people still buy their games? Why?
Granted, I have one more game I'm going to buy from EA, unless they do something ridiculous to it: Mass Effect 3. I'm so invested in the series, I really want to see how it ends. But that's it, and I know what I'm getting into; I'm not going to use their forums, I'm going to avoid their ****ty Origin service as much as possible, and once I'm done with the game I'm done with EA.
Really, with gamers it's like crack addicts, it's disgusting sometimes. Anyone remember that whole thing with COD:MW2 or whatever, with the Steam "we're not going to buy MW2" all playing it on release day?
Actually their customer support is pretty decent. I've used their "Call Me" option a few times--you login to Origin, stick in your phone number, and receive a call (typically within 2 hours). Far better than waiting on the phone for even 10 minutes.
Anyways, I really disagree with EA's policy here. Forum violations are one thing--ban them from the forums--but don't ban them from the game (unless they're caught hacking on a Punkbuster-secured server).
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Just don't use their web-chat thing.
.....And call me ......does it work outside the US?
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if it didn't work in india that would be horrifically ironic.
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Wait, wait, wait. People still use Punkbuster? :wtf:
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If you play Joint Operations: Typhoon Rising I think you have to.
Unless that changed over the years.
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It did, but everyone agrees that they suck so there's not much to debate there. :p
We should have a poll
Does E.A suck...
1: yes
2: yes
3: yes
4: Snuffleupagus, but e.a still suck
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Hell, while GOG.com is doing well, there was just an article the other day estimating that The Witcher 2 had been torrented about 4 million times, give or take.
They have plans to make money from that too: http://torrentfreak.com/drm-free-witcher-2-cashes-in-on-bittorrent-pirates-111207/
On the one hand, good that they dropped the DRM.
On the other hand, what the ****. I hope a stop is put to this **** (http://torrentfreak.com/copyright-trolls-unite-to-prevent-downfall-of-bittorrent-lawsuits-111019/) ASAP.
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It did, but everyone agrees that they suck so there's not much to debate there. :p
It's probably the only topic on which you won't have a lengthy debate...
That fact alone is an eye opener.
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Wait, wait, wait. People still use Punkbuster? :wtf:
i ****ing hate that ****. the idea: keep cheaters and trolls off the server. what its actually used for: kicking people who lag too much.
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If you play Joint Operations: Typhoon Rising I think you have to.
Unless that changed over the years.
Nova ditched it for use with their servers, although I think a lot of pub's still use it... for whatever reason.