Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: HAZARDLEADER on December 29, 2011, 05:51:12 pm
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so who thinks this should be fixed?
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Not me.
It's Freespace. Physics are already thrown out the air lock. Half the stuff doesn't make sense, and the other half is just rule of cool. Deal with it 8)
You also have the BP explanation : most of the internal space is occupied by multiple armor layers, redundant systems and subsystem shield generators. Also, holding a transport shuttle is one thing, supporting combat squadrons with the required armament, fuel and ordnance plus the necessary safety systems (remember 5 FS1-era Fury rockets have the power of the Hiroshima bomb, and a single fighter can carry hundreds of them) requires significantly more internal space.
Last thing : you took the Iceni as an example. We have no idea how large the ETAK device was. It could take half the ship for all we know.
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You are free to do this in your own mod. It will never happen in any "official" (read: MediaVPs) release, because it would alter FS2 gameplay considerably. This is something we will not do.
That said, every Destroyer or above has fighter bays, even some fan-made Corvette-sized vessels have them. There is really no reason to change anything.
Oh, and FreeSpace and Star Trek really aren't comparable universes.
EDIT: The poll was lacking in options. I have corrected this.
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Good, now I can finally vote!
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Last thing : you took the Iceni as an example. We have no idea how large the ETAK device was. It could take half the ship for all we know.
The Iceni has nearly the same firepower as an Orion and certainly more than a Hecate, and it's far and away the most powerful corvette-sized vessel in the setting. Forget the ETAK: he's got a destroyer-level reactor stuffed in a corvette-sized hull. That alone will chew up copious amounts of space.
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Also, Voyager isn't canon. Except for the bit where they went Warp 10 and mutated into semisenescent lizards.
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snuff said.
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As I recall... FS fighters are actually pretty darned huge.
But anyways, this is silly, so I voted snufflepagus.
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Also, Voyager isn't canon. Except for the bit where they went Warp 10 and mutated into semisenescent lizards.
Even that is too much canon.
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As I recall... FS fighters are actually pretty darned huge.
But anyways, this is silly, so I voted snufflepagus.
Most of the FS fighters aren't that big. The cockpits are disproportionate, but overall dimensions are not outlandish in most cases. For instance, the Herc II is just shy of being 56 feet long, which is the length of a first-generation F/A-18 Hornet (models A-D). But yes, otherwise snuffy is the word of the day.
*Adding to this, at least FS ships are in standard units of meters et al; you will find some programs that tell you things are in meters, but do not actually have models on a normal scale - AT ALL...
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The Iceni has nearly the same firepower as an Orion and certainly more than a Hecate, and it's far and away the most powerful corvette-sized vessel in the setting. Forget the ETAK: he's got a destroyer-level reactor stuffed in a corvette-sized hull. That alone will chew up copious amounts of space.
It's not just the weaponary that's at issue either. The Iceni is ridiculously quick compared to other ships its size. That also suggests a larger than normal reactor.
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I bet it's got a vasudan reactor.
ohh the irony.
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Snuffy ftw
Also Iceni is a specialised blockade runner.
Also as has been stated in other comparison threads we have no direct comparison in the size of internal workings, though in ST there are lots of reference points, in FS there are non. for example how big is a capship reactor, a capship subspace drive, how thick is a FS ships hull, how big are the missile stores for the warship launchers, how big are the stores for repairing the ship, how big is the crew,
tl;dr = lots of unknown variables that affect the size of a FS capship
and I could easily go on and without that comparison and/or a reference point in RL technology for most of it there is no way to say in any meaningful manner if the scale of one universe or another is correct.
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I bet it's got a vasudan reactor.
ohh the irony.
Is there any canon proof? That would pretty much be one of the most awesome story elements of FS 2.
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Nope. We just know the Vasudans have the best reactors, and the Iceni has many design elements similar to the Deimos. So the speculation is legit.
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So now all we need is an FS2 campaign where the Vasudans are chasing Bosch to get back the reactor he 'borrowed'.
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The NTF already uses many Deimoses, and the Zods aren't specifically chasing down every single one of them...
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ignore this, I misread the previous post.
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Not me.
It's Freespace. Physics are already thrown out the air lock. Half the stuff doesn't make sense, and the other half is just rule of cool. Deal with it 8)
You also have the BP explanation : most of the internal space is occupied by multiple armor layers, redundant systems and subsystem shield generators. Also, holding a transport shuttle is one thing, supporting combat squadrons with the required armament, fuel and ordnance plus the necessary safety systems (remember 5 FS1-era Fury rockets have the power of the Hiroshima bomb, and a single fighter can carry hundreds of them) requires significantly more internal space.
Last thing : you took the Iceni as an example. We have no idea how large the ETAK device was. It could take half the ship for all we know.
You're right this is pointless, but if a tv show of fs or movie comes out, i just they get the dimensions right
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You're right this is pointless, but if a tv show of fs or movie comes out, i just they get the dimensions right
but if a tv show of fs or movie comes out,
tv show of fs or movie
/me struggles to contain laughter.
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Oh, my dear and fluffy lord...
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Also, Voyager isn't canon. Except for the bit where they went Warp 10 and mutated into semisenescent lizards.
Even that is too much canon.
what is this Voyager thing you speak off? You must have eaten some crazy shrooms. That never happened. NEVER.
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/me is apparently the only person who generally enjoyed Voyager, despite (because of?) the goofy psychobabble
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/me is apparently the only person who generally enjoyed Voyager, despite (because of?) the goofy psychobabble
o/
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/me is apparently the only person who generally enjoyed Voyager, despite (because of?) the goofy psychobabble
I'm not saying I didn't enjoy it.
I just don't think it was up to standards. :P
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Fair enough. It was the first series I got the chance to sit down and watch on a weekly basis while it premiered, so that definitely contributed to my enjoyment of it.
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Fair enough. It was the first series I got the chance to sit down and watch on a weekly basis while it premiered, so that definitely contributed to my enjoyment of it.
same here
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Kirk and Co: Blegh could never get into them, given the choice between re-runs of that and TOS-BSG, i preferred BSG, though the original ST films are quite good.
TNG: Suffered a lot in the early days from trying to figure out how the fans had changed between the old stuff and from to much character experimenting. Once it all hit its stride though generally TNG was fun to watch with some good story lines and great acting. and the films of course are excellent.
Voyager: early days I didn't like the Kazon for some reason and in general the series suffered from too much "OMFG that came from nowhere and now we are up **** creek". Later on though the Borg story lines were great and the finale was good, though how to make that storyline stick long term is a bit of a puzzle.
DS9: overall my preferred run. Steady acting, some good story lines, a more meshed story with less jumping around. Biggest downside was I felt they dragged the dominion war out a little too long and I felt they were running out of story lines on a few occasions. Heck I even enjoyed the weirdness with the Prophets.
Enterprise: Suffered from being the inferior sequel, if they ran it between later TNG and early Voyager/DS9 I think it would have been a lot more popular as it wasn't bad but didn't quite hit the standards of the later Voyager/DS9, a couple more series and i think it would have done like the rest and worked out the bits the fans didn't like and produced some fine TV and help keep the genre alive, as it was the fans were expecting more of the later standard of stuff and turned off very quickly when they didnt get it in the first few episodes.
ohhh and technobable constancy, hello this is the FS community we have Zero right to complain about that given what we have to work with for canon.
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If the Orion is 2.1 kilometers in length, and I am 1.8 meters in height, then what exactly do I mean by wasting your time like this?
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"Ship is too big. If I walk, the movie will be over!"
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Imagine Bosch's surprise when ETAK was completed, and occupied the space of a ham radio.
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Imagine Bosch's surprise when ETAK was completed, and occupied the space of a ham radio.
Considering how it's described, this is entirely possible.
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"Ship is too big. If I walk, the movie will be over!"
Forget it! No more beaming! This time, I'm gonna walk!
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It could be interesting to have an entire mod of FS, that was entirely accurate.
Lots of work for what... no benefit though. So yea, while interesting. No... definately No. :)
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Kirk and Co: Blegh could never get into them, given the choice between re-runs of that and TOS-BSG, i preferred BSG, though the original ST films are quite good.
I approached it as a comedy, was a good laugh.
With al lthe goofy acting and rubbber masks... and silly plotlines.
TNG: Suffered a lot in the early days from trying to figure out how the fans had changed between the old stuff and from to much character experimenting. Once it all hit its stride though generally TNG was fun to watch with some good story lines and great acting. and the films of course are excellent.
Best of the bunch and best acting. You can't beat Picard,
Voyager: early days I didn't like the Kazon for some reason and in general the series suffered from too much "OMFG that came from nowhere and now we are up **** creek". Later on though the Borg story lines were great and the finale was good, though how to make that storyline stick long term is a bit of a puzzle.
Good first episodes, but then it turned into garbage.
DS9: overall my preferred run. Steady acting, some good story lines, a more meshed story with less jumping around. Biggest downside was I felt they dragged the dominion war out a little too long and I felt they were running out of story lines on a few occasions. Heck I even enjoyed the weirdness with the Prophets.
Good battles, but that couldn't save it from terrible acting (I'm looking at you Sisko) and silly plot.
Enterprise: Suffered from being the inferior sequel, if they ran it between later TNG and early Voyager/DS9 I think it would have been a lot more popular as it wasn't bad but didn't quite hit the standards of the later Voyager/DS9, a couple more series and i think it would have done like the rest and worked out the bits the fans didn't like and produced some fine TV and help keep the genre alive, as it was the fans were expecting more of the later standard of stuff and turned off very quickly when they didnt get it in the first few episodes.
First two episodes with all the low-tech were so promisig. No transporters? Pulse lasers? Hell yes!
Then it turned into a even worse piece of s*** than Voyager.
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"Ship is too big. If I walk, the movie will be over!"
Forget it! No more beaming! This time, I'm gonna walk!
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_eRFM_IZi7z0/TUgxJRrcoVI/AAAAAAAAAEo/CA8e-8UA44Y/s1600/ludicrous-speed.jpg)
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Trashman once again demonstrates a total lack of taste in shocking development.
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(http://troll.me/images/xzibit-yo-dawg/yo-dawg-i-herd-you-like-trolling-so-im-trolling-your-trolling-right-now-you-mad.jpg)
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I disagree on the Borg episodes of Voyager being good.
Yeah the stories were exciting, but Voyager ruined the Borg.
"Yeah btw, we're the borg, we can warp around the Galaxy instantly... which is why we send one cube against the Federation the long way instead of opening a warp portal and sending through 500 Cubes."
^ master strategists.
TNG made the borg mysterious and dangerous. Voyager made them stupid. I can't forgive that.
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true the Borg lost their mystery but they were an enemy worth exploring imho.
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true the Borg lost their mystery but they were an enemy worth exploring imho.
Fair enough, let's just say I thought the direction they took them in made the Borg less menacing
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Granted it did strip them of their seeming near invulnerability
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Voyager gave us the Borg in the form of Jeri Ryan in a catsuit. That gets a massive :yes: from me.
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Well, the Iceni DOES have a "fighter bay", and I think we can all agree that it probably has an escape pod bay for emergency purpose.
Also, to "fix" it, I suggest making the Iceni 30 kilometers long so that it can duel with the Gargant and hold destroyer-sized Myrmidons.
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What are you smoking marcov?
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the same **** he was smoking before he signed up here
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I have absolutely no idea what's going on in here, but I fully agree with the statement regarding Jeri Ryan in a catsuit.
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Well, the Iceni DOES have a "fighter bay", and I think we can all agree that it probably has an escape pod bay for emergency purpose.
Also, to "fix" it, I suggest making the Iceni 30 kilometers long so that it can duel with the Gargant and hold destroyer-sized Myrmidons.
The Iceni has a fighter bay??
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No.
Not in model shape, not in subsystem set up.
Not even a little bit.
Not even a little one.
Not even a hint.
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The Moloch does but that's it and a believe that was a unused feature
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It was used in the multi missions pack, and I think it may have been used in the demo campaign as well.
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the asteroid-iceni has a fighterbay doesn't it?
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I just got an idea
I'm going to make a super destroyer that has destroyers in it's hangar bays which have corvettes in their hangar bays which has bombers in their hangar bays which have fighters in their hangar bays which have Jeri Ryan in a catsuit in their hangar bays
I shall call it...
...The GTVA Matryoshka
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RECURSE
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RECURSE
RE-RECURSE
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*INCEPTION SOUUUUUUUND*
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I... am... confused
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I realize I'm way late... But if Voyager is only 344 meters, methinks that the crew of 280 people is quite cramped...
I've been watching Star Trek quite a bit lately, and I think they actually have the scales worse than Freespace... Especially as you move from one series to another.
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You have no sense of scale. A Nimitz class aircraft carrier is about the same length, and carries 5000 people.
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Not to mention the multiple decks
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No.
Not in model shape, not in subsystem set up.
Not even a little bit.
Not even a little one.
Not even a hint.
A hint?
The GTEP Hermes escape pod is now standard equipment on every GTVA warship of cruiser size or larger.
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The GTEP Hermes escape pod is now standard equipment on every GTVA warship of cruiser size or larger.
Escape pods are typically integrated in designated "escape pod tubes" rather than a full docking bay. Think of the blockade runner from Star Wars and the pod that the droids escape on. Even though the Hermes is significantly larger, it most likely functions the same way. Don't ask me how to FRED it, but that's probably what that quote means.
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Pretty sure that's the way it was meant. Because there are no cruisers with fighterbays in retail either.
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Really? Where's this "tube" in the .pof file now?
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*sigh*
Can't we just all agree that the FS universe doesn't make sense and move on ? Those discussions are sterile.
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Really? Where's this "tube" in the .pof file now?
With plate bolted over it to conceal the obvious weakpoint in the armor, duh.
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How do escape pods work, gameplay wise, when there is no fighterbay? Do they arrive "near ship", or what?
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If you mean in retail, escape pods are always launched from a fighterbay.
Aside from retail, well, whatever works for you.
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Aside from retail, well, whatever works for you.
You could theoretically (maybe) spawn an invulnerable pod inside the ship, and after the ship explodes it's released and de-invulnerabled.
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...logic dictates that you should evacuate the ship before it asplodes.
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...logic dictates that you should evacuate the ship before it asplodes.
Most of the time you actually see escape pods they have to be protected from the shockwave anyways. It's not a terrible idea.
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If you mean in retail, escape pods are always launched from a fighterbay.
Aside from retail, well, whatever works for you.
That's not entirely true.. unless the Faustus has a fighterbay I don't know about.
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The Faustus always had a fighterbay, since FS1 retail. And at least one recent campaign actually used it to transport Ulysses, because that's the only thing that seem to realistically fit in it.
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There's no fighterbay on the FSU model.. I'm too lazy to check retail.
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You're right, it's not a fighterbay, as in fighterbay subsystem. It just has a bay path. Semantics.
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I'd assume that the only reason the Faustus was given that path in retail was specifically for "Out of the Dark, Into the Night."
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Aside from retail, well, whatever works for you.
You could theoretically (maybe) spawn an invulnerable pod inside the ship, and after the ship explodes it's released and de-invulnerabled.
in my experience very bad things happen when your starting using hacks like that. course if the big ship just dies and it's only a tiny escape pod it may not be a huge deal.
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Ok maybe i should not have mentioned star trek because, this is freespace forums not star trek forums :beamz:
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Ok, maybe I should not have mentioned Star Trek, because , this is these are Freespace forums, not Star Trek forums . :beamz:
This is general freespace talking space, Hazard. You can post on pretty nearly anything you want to here, as long as it's even vaguely freespace, and, more importantly, you don't take yourself too seriously, but if you don't spellcheck or express yourself well, you're going to see some people cracking jokes about it, and posting a poll at random out of nowhere with no real explanation of why the subject is relevant to anything, ever... well it doesn't make much sense. And we mock what we do not understand.
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Ignore the grammar nazis. :rolleyes:
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Ignore the grammar nazis. :rolleyes:
"Nazi" is a proper noun. :p
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Ignore the grammar nazis. :rolleyes:
"Nazi" is a proper noun. :p
Only when referring to the Nazi Party as appeared during WW2. When using the word to refer to other things, such as "grammar nazi" or "spelling nazi" or "history nazi", it is acceptable to use the lower-case version, due to the shifted meaning. It doesn't refer to National Socialism in these new contexts. It's a common mistake.
Yeah I just made that up, don't be a fact nazi
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Grammar Nazi is considered a title and is to be treated as such.
Not only that, but the Nazi failed to realize the clear comma splicing. The sentence should read:
"Ok, maybe I should not have mentioned Star Trek. These are Freespace forums, not Star Trek forums."
Alternatively:
"Ok, maybe I should not have mentioned Star Trek as these are Freespace forums, not Star Trek forums."
Personally, I would have typed it out as:
"Alright, perhaps I should not have mentioned Star Trek in a Freespace forum."
That is all. I shall resume my duties browsing Youtube scrutinizing small children
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Ok, maybe I should not have mentioned Star Trek, because , this is these are Freespace forums, not Star Trek forums . :beamz:
The third S in FreeSpace is also capitalised :P
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Aaand this thread has served its pupose.