Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => Wings of Dawn => WoD Archive => Topic started by: Droid803 on January 13, 2012, 11:51:47 pm
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The Colossus is what, 6km long?
The GA is like, the size of a Deimos, slightly bigger, IIRC.
Clearly, one Deimos a year does not stress GTVA production in the slightest, given the fact that they're practically crawling around everywhere in FS2. They could probably spit out 10 a year.
The Colossus just took a long time probably due to it being a project unprecedented in scale, thus requiring much more planning, paperwork, and probably a fair bit of custom infrastructure to even start laying down the hull. I would estimate similar things for the LSF if not more, seeing as they don't have any ships even the size of an Orion.
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The GTVA is, I think, bigger and more powerful than both the LSF and the CSA.
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The GTVA is, I think, bigger and more powerful than both the LSF and the CSA.
Hahaha, no. Both sides possesses several thousand capital ships (and recall how many ships was assembled to attack the Hertak Flagship?), compared to that...measly GTVA...
Not to mention the power of Cyrvan MCWSes alone, and they don't only have 500 or 1000 of them. (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Terrans_%28Wings_of_Dawn%29)
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The Colossus is what, 6km long?
The GA is like, the size of a Deimos, slightly bigger, IIRC.
Clearly, one Deimos a year does not stress GTVA production in the slightest, given the fact that they're practically crawling around everywhere in FS2. They could probably spit out 10 a year.
The Colossus just took a long time probably due to it being a project unprecedented in scale, thus requiring much more planning, paperwork, and probably a fair bit of custom infrastructure to even start laying down the hull. I would estimate similar things for the LSF if not more, seeing as they don't have any ships even the size of an Orion.
Ok. That frame of reference would have been even more helpful. Edited my question to be more fair.
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*Snip*
"I treat my servants well, submit to me and you have nothing to fear."
ALL HAIL THE WARRIOR EMPRESS OF ETERNAL BEAUTY, ISA'EMARL DERTANYA!
IN HER NAME SHALL THE GALAXY BE UNITED!
BY HER WORD, WILL THE UNWORTHY BE PURGED!
AS IS HER WILL, THOSE WHO JOIN SHALL BE ENLIGHTENED!
TURN NOT TO THE FALSE GOD "HYPNOTOAD", AS ITS POWER IS NOUGHT BUT A SPEC OF DUST COMPARED TO 'HER'!
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*Snip*
"I treat my servants well, submit to me and you have nothing to fear."
ALL HAIL THE WARRIOR EMPRESS OF ETERNAL BEAUTY, ISA'EMARL DERTANYA!
IN HER NAME SHALL THE GALAXY BE UNITED!
BY HER WORD, WILL THE UNWORTHY BE PURGED!
AS IS HER WILL, THOSE WHO JOIN SHALL BE ENLIGHTENED!
TURN NOT TO THE FALSE GOD "HYPNOTOAD", AS ITS POWER IS NOUGHT BUT A SPEC OF DUST COMPARED TO 'HER'!
Oh lord, where's the God-Emperor of mankind when I need him.
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(http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/9/9b/The_Emperor.jpg/252px-The_Emperor.jpg)
Behold, I come to you to bring you away from the false worship of xenos idols. Kneel before your Emperor, and receive my blessing.
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Begone, Betrayed Father of the Heretic Son!
Our Empress Isa has abilities that you will never have, powers that you could only replicate with cheap imitations and tricks.
The things of which I speak are the holy icons known as 'Breasts', and with them she has more power over man than you do, swinging your massive sword at other guys... :nono:
Also, I neither wish to kneel before you nor receive your blessing. I just don't swing that way.
ALL HAIL BREASTS EMPRESS ISA!
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but dawn... she's so awesome she can move ears just by thinking it. :p
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DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR.
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Hahaha, no. Both sides possesses several thousand capital ships (and recall how many ships was assembled to attack the Hertak Flagship?), compared to that...measly GTVA... (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Terrans_%28Wings_of_Dawn%29)
At least in the LSF's case, none of those ships (except the GA, which isn't intended for direct assault anyway) is bigger than an Aeolus, and are very vulnerable to flanking maneuvers.
Actually, I'm going to try and FRED this.
A Challenger II vs:
_ An Aeolus
_ A Deimos
_ A Diomedes
_ A Phobos
And all the ships I saw engaging the Flagship vs:
_ An Orion
_ A Raynor
_ A Colossus
_ A Solaris
_ An Odin
Not to mention the power of Cyrvan MCWSes alone, and they don't only have 500 or 1000 of them.[/url]
Unshielded. Flak screens FTW!
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The size of the ships do not matter - only their weapons and the sheer amount of ships they can gather compared to any GTVA fleet, matters.
I'm pretty sure that MCWSes come in the shielded variant, too. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q73H_ppOkSQ&list=UUxW-7zwlLDcTmdpn2sOKEWg&index=10&feature=plcp)
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least in the LSF's case, none of those ships (except the GA, which isn't intended for direct assault anyway) is bigger than an Aeolus, and are very vulnerable to flanking maneuvers.
Wut?! The Challenger is 512 meters long! The Aeolus is just 272 m. Even the Skirmisher is longer than the Aeolus.
The Challenger has a very strong beam cannon (2280 base damage) and I'm sure it will always win against the Aeolus. If the Beam doesn't destroy it, the Pulse turrets will do. The Aeolus is even worse if both move into broadside engagement. I don't think the Flaks and Blobs are able to penetrate the shields.
However, I'm not sure about the Challenger II vs. Deimos thingy. The Challenger II is high likely ****ed if it tries to win in a broadside engagement against a Diomedes.
And all the ships I saw engaging the Flagship vs:
_ An Orion
_ A Raynor
_ A Colossus
_ A Solaris
_ An Odin
Actually depends from which direction they attack. The LSF ships seem to be familiarized with shock-jump attacks and a nice Challenger-Skirmisher combo can do tremendous damage. (remember, they even managed to destroy Armageddons with this tactic. An Armageddon already has 350.000 hitpoints and 250.000 shield points!)
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A 1v1 fight between GTCA and LSF ships isn't exactly representative to compare fleet strength, since the LSF capships outnumber their GTVA equivalent massively.
Let's assume for arguments sake that the GTVA has 300 capships (though I highly doubt they have even half that number). That would put them roughly into a 1 to 41 disadvantage against the 12392 capitalships the LSF had in the year 144.
We also havn't seen the really big hitters in WoD1. While they weren't seen in the campaign, the LSF does have battleships (according to the techroom, battleship designation means between 1001 and 1700 meters length) and big carriers.
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Carriers aren't very impressive armament-wise, and battleships are pretty much like AoD's LSF Knight.
I guess that a Raynor or Titan wouldn't have much problem against most LSF ships, even with head-on engagement (that goes double for the Titan).
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Except that the GTVA wouldn't have all that many Titans and/or escorts, while the LSF deploys thousands of capital ships when it does massive fleet battles, most notably against the Cyrvans and Hertak. A single LSF battlegroup probably contains enough warships and strikecraft to simply drown a GTVA Fleet in ship hulls.
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What about Shivans? I mean, we all saw the insane crap shivan's spat out at the GTVA on a daily basis, The Lucifer had two superlasers for goodness sakes, then the Sathanas came with four, whats stopping the Shivans from bringing something with 50?! and then there are the Vishnans, frankly. The Precursor races of Freespace, Vishnan and Shivan, scare me more then the Hertak's ever could.
What makes me even more curious were the Ancients. The movies in Freespace 1 imply that the ancients had a vast empire, possibly with fleet sizes rivaling LSF and Cyrvans combined, or maybe i'm looking too hard into it. But if i'm not, that would mean that the Shivans have a really, truely massive armada.
After all, the GTVA beat them back, and before they weren't even trying, and then they brought ina bout what, 50 to 100 Sathanas Juggernauts alone to blow up a sun?..Now i'm curious, Sathanas vs a Armeggedon..Hmm, Might have to fire up FRED for that.
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What about Shivans? I mean, we all saw the insane crap shivan's spat out at the GTVA on a daily basis, The Lucifer had two superlasers for goodness sakes, then the Sathanas came with four, whats stopping the Shivans from bringing something with 50?! and then there are the Vishnans, frankly. The Precursor races of Freespace, Vishnan and Shivan, scare me more then the Hertak's ever could.
After all, the GTVA beat them back, and before they weren't even trying, and then they brought ina bout what, 50 to 100 Sathanas Juggernauts alone to blow up a sun?..Now i'm curious, Sathanas vs a Armeggedon..Hmm, Might have to fire up FRED for that.
Shivans are omnicidial determinators. Find out how much your enemy can take and then take it up to eleven with your forces. It worked everytime. However, there are good chances of surviving such a war if the LSF and the CSA would combine their forces. The problem with the Shivans is that you don't know how strong they really are.
Oh I already tested the Sathanas vs. Armageddon situation. The Sathanas managed to destroy four Armageddons. Think about that :sigh:
EDIT: The Sathanas can handle two! Not four! Goddamnit.
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Shadow, what about the Lucifer? How many Hertak ships can it wreck?
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Not four! I remember that I posted some pics in the "Celebration of Freespace"-thread long time ago. The Sathanas can handle two.
But hell, even two are one hell of an achievement. Massed Sathanae against the Hertak, that should be fun.
The Lucifer? The FS1 Lucifer is a nightmare but even the FS1 one will go down. The Hertak have beams, the Great-War terrans didn't had any beams. The FS2-Lucifer has Sreds and I don't think they can do enough damage for an Armageddon.
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How many Armeggedon can a Gigas take down? or hell, a Vishnan Preserver from Age of Aquarius?
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This be a interesting topic mateys, split into its own topic for the sake of my sanity :p
One thing you got to consider though, in WoD beams do not pierce shields (only in special cases) but in FreeSpace they do. There will be a considerable difference in durability if a Armageddon has 250000 shield points to throw into the fray. This becomes four times as effective with the AI profile flag $all ships manage shields: turned on. (which was not the case in WoD1 since the flag was made half way into production of the campaign and would have required every mission with capital ships to be rebalanced. But it will be used in WoD2.) And there is also the Xentronium armor that Hertak ships sport, which reduces energy damage by 10% and kinetic damage by 15%. Unmodded shivan beams will deal 100% damage directly to the hull.
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Ouch Spoon, does that mean that the piercing shields give the GTVA and Shivans an utterly sick advantage over our friends in Wings of Dawn?
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This thread is premature until Wings of Dawn 2 arrives. We haven't seen the LSF's strongest ships, and have barely gotten a sniff of the Cyrva, who are 100 years ahead technologically. LSF vs the CSA is like tribals with spears vs soldiers with machine guns I'm guessing. Like this video of a Cyrva fighter tearing apart a Challenger like it's some pathetic freighter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q73H_ppOkSQ&list=UUxW-7zwlLDcTmdpn2sOKEWg&index=10&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q73H_ppOkSQ&list=UUxW-7zwlLDcTmdpn2sOKEWg&index=10&feature=plcp)
Too powerful. If Spoon is going to make us fight the Cyrva, we don't stand a chance. And I'm guessing neither does the GTVA. And the Shivans? The Cyrva are all about manueverability. You don't think they're just gonna sit in front of a Sathanas, do you?
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No, but spoon flat out admitted that No weapon in Wings of Dawn penetrates shields, that GTVA and Shivan weapons do. That counts for something.
And Lorric, shivans will adapt, its what they do.
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No, but spoon flat out admitted that No weapon in Wings of Dawn penetrates shields, that GTVA and Shivan weapons do. That counts for something.
And Lorric, shivans will adapt, its what they do.
But Wings of Dawn has shielded capital ships on the flip side
As for the Shivans, I've never thought of them as being very adaptive at all. They certainly didn't adapt to the destruction of the Lucifer, the GTVA scattered the Shivans like pigeons after that. The Shivans also seem to be devoid of any semblance of tactics at all outside of a big picture. They just come head on, all the time, no subtlety at all, they don't even mass for attacks. Nothing but mindless drones really. As for the Sathanas, if that's your idea of adapting, I doubt they just whipped them up. They probably had them the whole time.
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Shivans invented shock jumps.
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Shivans invented shock jumps.
I'm not knocking their technology, but I believe they lack the ability to adapt quickly. The GTVA was ahead of the ships they had encountered in FS1 technologically by FS2. It's a good point for the wider question, but I believe the Cyrva could dance around them all the same. I still need to see what the Cyrva can really do though.
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But Lorric, Yes wings of dawn has shielded capitol ships. Guess what? The Beams of GTVA and SHivan ships completely ignore LSF, CSA, Hertak, ect shields, and hit the hull 100%.
Spoon SAID so.
One thing you got to consider though, in WoD beams do not pierce shields (only in special cases) but in FreeSpace they do. There will be a considerable difference in durability if a Armageddon has 250000 shield points to throw into the fray. This becomes four times as effective with the AI profile flag $all ships manage shields: turned on. (which was not the case in WoD1 since the flag was made half way into production of the campaign and would have required every mission with capital ships to be rebalanced. But it will be used in WoD2.) And there is also the Xentronium armor that Hertak ships sport, which reduces energy damage by 10% and kinetic damage by 15%. Unmodded shivan beams will deal 100% damage directly to the hull.
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Thing is, most FS2 Shivan warships have their beams on front. All the beams in the world won't help if the enemy gets to a spot he can hit you but you can't hit it.
Shivans vs LSF would be a shock jump fest with no clear winner until the Shivans bring in the Ravanas and the Sathanes.
Shivans vs CSA is a spectacular victory for the CSA.
I wonder how would Maxim + Cyclops and mass drivers/railguns + Apocalypse barrages work against them.
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CSA would most likely get butchered against a Raynor, or even a Titan regardless of the approach angle (except directly from behind). UEF ships would have problems, but their Apocalypse torpedoes are quite good at all-round coverage.
Strafing them would be difficult due to large amount of AAA beams (not shield piercing, but still deadly), and Maxim won't get through the shield.
Strangely, Ravana and Sathanas would be dead against LSF ships, as Sathanas would be flanked and "cherry tapped" to death (Ravana would just get killed). These ships have no real armament except directly up front. Colossus, on the other hand, would be a hairy target even for CSA, especially with beams overloaded.
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I think that while GTVA has fewer ships then say, LSF or CSA, I think their quality is much better, I mean good grief, does the GTVA need to make them any bigger? Lets also consider that their beams ignore shields, wouldn't that shock the living daylights out of the CSA and LSF, who have shielded capitol ships? JUst asking.
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And this is why I think cross-universe stuff is retarded.
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But Lorric, Yes wings of dawn has shielded capitol ships. Guess what? The Beams of GTVA and SHivan ships completely ignore LSF, CSA, Hertak, ect shields, and hit the hull 100%.
Spoon SAID so.
Well what I more meant to say with that is, is that will be the results unless you adept a FS2 ship to work with the WoD rules. I was speaking from a game technical/modding perspective with that post. From a fluff perspective I would say that the invading force would have to obey the laws&physics of the universe they are invading. So if the shivans were to invade LSF space, they'd be subject to their beams not piercing shields and the reverse would apply if the LSF would invade Shivan space.
Of course there would be a defender advantage in this case, as the defenders ships are optimized for the laws of their own universe :p
CSA would most likely get butchered against a Raynor, or even a Titan regardless of the approach angle (except directly from behind). UEF ships would have problems, but their Apocalypse torpedoes are quite good at all-round coverage.
Except, you are wrong.
A single CSA Ascension class singlehandly takes on a GTD Titan and GTD Raynor (at the same time) and comes out on top with around 50-70% hull left (depending if the Titan is placed broadside or not). And this damage to the hull was only taken because the beams pierced the shields. The larger size of the Titan&Raynor is only a disadvantage in this case, as less turrets will be able to target the smaller ship.
In any case its a silly comparison to make, both mods are not balanced with each other in mind. WoD weapon and ship stats on average are a scale higher than FreeSpace weapons. (The VX-02a for example does more damage than the Prometheus S cannon. And the Ray 3's shields are twice that of an Ursa) And the LSF alone vastly outnumbers the GTVA in capital ship numbers. Both mods are balanced to themselves to try and tell a story. Not to have some kind of competition with each other :p
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CSA would most likely get butchered against a Raynor, or even a Titan regardless of the approach angle (except directly from behind). UEF ships would have problems, but their Apocalypse torpedoes are quite good at all-round coverage.
Except, you are wrong.
A single CSA Ascension class singlehandly takes on a GTD Titan and GTD Raynor (at the same time) and comes out on top with around 50-70% hull left (depending if the Titan is placed broadside or not). And this damage to the hull was only taken because the beams pierced the shields. The larger size of the Titan&Raynor is only a disadvantage in this case, as less turrets will be able to target the smaller ship.
In any case its a silly comparison to make, both mods are not balanced with each other in mind. WoD weapon and ship stats on average are a scale higher than FreeSpace weapons. (The VX-02a for example does more damage than the Prometheus S cannon. And the Ray 3's shields are twice that of an Ursa) And the LSF alone vastly outnumbers the GTVA in capital ship numbers. Both mods are balanced to themselves to try and tell a story. Not to have some kind of competition with each other :p
[/quote]
Yes, I thought about mentioning WoD's pumped up stats too, but I was too lazy to go to the wiki page to get the concrete stats. I could imagine a wing of Zy fighters running wild in the Freespace 2 universe, never mind the Cyrva. I wonder if the GTVA aside from shield piercers or running into an anti capship beam would have anything that could get through a sweeper's shields, never mind the upgraded version (and a bone to pick with you there Spoon, despite what is said in the game on the first encounter, mocking the ship, the upgrade is very substantial.) :)
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Oh, that didn't come out right. How do you get Spoon's quote like Dragon's quote?
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..Why is it that for some reason, Cyrvan remind me of Minbari?
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And this is why I think cross-universe stuff is retarded.
I ****ing love cross-universe stuff. I say somebody should mod together the CSA/LSF + GTVA/Shivan craft put them together into a mod, and fred something together. See who wins :D
No balancing of tables, no modifying this or that, just pure vanilla table entries from each side.
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but dawn... she's so awesome she can move ears just by thinking it. :p
She's awwwwesome (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Wings_of_Dawn_Characters#Dawn)
Oh, and....
Hertak = UEF :p
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..Why is it that for some reason, Cyrvan remind me of Minbari?
Is my comment on the CSA Ascension video involved in any way?
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I want to see UEF vs GTVA vs CSA vs LSF vs Shivans vs Vishnans vs Brahmans vs PVN vs Hertak vs GEFs, kthx.
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I think you forgot the HoL somewhere in there.
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CSA would most likely get butchered against a Raynor, or even a Titan regardless of the approach angle (except directly from behind). UEF ships would have problems, but their Apocalypse torpedoes are quite good at all-round coverage.
Except, you are wrong.
A single CSA Ascension class singlehandly takes on a GTD Titan and GTD Raynor (at the same time) and comes out on top with around 50-70% hull left (depending if the Titan is placed broadside or not). And this damage to the hull was only taken because the beams pierced the shields. The larger size of the Titan&Raynor is only a disadvantage in this case, as less turrets will be able to target the smaller ship.
I actually thought about using a Breaker or Starlight for comparison, since honestly, I didn't really knew how powerful Ascension is (I only saw it in the lab). Also, which AI profile did you use?
It is true though, that WoD ships have higher stats than FS ones.
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I want to see UEF vs GTVA vs CSA vs LSF vs Shivans vs Vishnans vs Brahmans vs PVN vs Hertak vs GEFs, kthx.
No EA? For shame.
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..Why is it that for some reason, Cyrvan remind me of Minbari?
The Aestival reminded me a lot of a Whitestar when I first saw it.
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..Why is it that for some reason, Cyrvan remind me of Minbari?
beams, Beams, BEAMS on the ships? ...check
ultra fast and manouverable fighters? ...check
superiour attitude from the majority of the race? ...check
protecting the weaker species in their surroundings? ...check (well.... untill the whole split grey council affair at any rate)
war with the Humans, in which mankind got pounded bad? ...check
crystaline looking ships? ...check
In short I have no idea how the Cyrvan could possibly remind you of the Minbari :P
The Aestival reminded me a lot of a Whitestar when I first saw it.
Not much of a similarity there. For one thing, no matter how you turn the Aestival, it never looks like a plugged chicken :P.
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And I didn't even started watching B5 until like a month before release :p
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The Aestival reminded me a lot of a Whitestar when I first saw it.
Not much of a similarity there. For one thing, no matter how you turn the Aestival, it never looks like a plugged chicken :P.
Top Down.
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By the way, the word is plucked, not plugged. As in a chicken that has had all its feathers removed.
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In my defence, I never saw it written down untill now and Strazinsky wasn't pronouncing it very clearly in the audio commentary.
... though I do think a chicken plugged into an electrical socket won't have it's feathers for long either. :p
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Don't need to listen to commentary for that. Just watch the 5th season episode "A View From the Gallery", which follows a couple maintenance techs around.
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I sure want to see the Rance and company vs the Serkr Team
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*Snip*
"I treat my servants well, submit to me and you have nothing to fear."
ALL HAIL THE WARRIOR EMPRESS OF ETERNAL BEAUTY, ISA'EMARL DERTANYA!
IN HER NAME SHALL THE GALAXY BE UNITED!
BY HER WORD, WILL THE UNWORTHY BE PURGED!
AS IS HER WILL, THOSE WHO JOIN SHALL BE ENLIGHTENED!
TURN NOT TO THE FALSE GOD "HYPNOTOAD", AS ITS POWER IS NOUGHT BUT A SPEC OF DUST COMPARED TO 'HER'!
Oh lord, where's the God-Emperor of mankind when I need him
He also masqueraded as many prophets, leaders and wise men throughout history to nudge humanity towards a more ordered society, including Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, Gaius Julius Caesar, Winston Churchill and so on.
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/God-Emperor_of_Mankind
In Islam, Isa refers to Jesus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Jesus
They are the same person
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(http://25.media.tumblr.com/73d52b3b7686e1f812cb4bc42cfc8f52/tumblr_mkbdczEIfQ1rkvl19o1_400.gif)
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Was the gigantification of the .GIF really necessary?
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mmm hmmm
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of course. someone's gonna make a big deal about turning something to wine.
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why don't we turn the people who talk about turning stuff into wine into wine
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why don't we turn the people who talk about turning stuff into wine into wine
Wineception...
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why don't we turn the people who talk about turning stuff into wine into wine
I read it as "turn it into vine".