Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: KewlToyZ on February 07, 2012, 01:39:42 pm
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http://www.agearnotebooks.com/asus-ensemble-series-17--lcd.html?gclid=CPLvheDOjK4CFUHc4AodVD58fA
Pretty badass systems :pimp:
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Yaa... no, Asus laptops are both not the highend (even for laptops), and, well, they're laptops.
If you're going to drool, atleast do so on something you built yourself.
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I've been building since 95. I'm bored with it lol!
I just like the cooling system design on the ASUS laptop's for the hardware.
I got into SFF's for a long time, but for the sake of portable workstations this is a pretty cool chassis for the money.
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i owned an asus laptop once, it up and died a week after the warranty ran out, despite being in pristine condition. one day it booted and the next day it was dead. id avoid them like the plague at this point. ive generally had more failures of asus hardware over any other brand.
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Well this ain't for gamers... but productivity tools can be soooo droolworthy too: http://www.motioncomputing.com/products/tablet_pc_J35.asp
Meets MIL-STD-810G and IP52 specifications, i.e. you can drop it, use it in rain, sandstorms, etc. :)
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Yeah I have had a 50/50 success rate with ASUS products, the 650 chipset was horrible for reliability.
At the same time, the same hardware costs twice as much from HP and other shops laptop workstations.
So yeah I would probably rather have one run for two years and get the next level than stuck with the same tech for 4 years at the same cost. The Sony I got with similar specs is the most obnoxiously loud cooling system and shuts down from heat in a perfect setting running graphic intense apps. I think ASUS has less bloatware than Sony too.
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(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8536/11267947.png)
The 3GB on the Asus's 560M is wasted: 3GB is for Eyefinity/Surround, on a single 1080 it's useless.
All else equal, the Sager comes with MS Office, A 120Hz 3D display (with two glasses), and a 580M 2GB. If you want a 6990M instead (and drop 3d with it) you can cut off about $500. I forgot to upgrade the Bluray to 8x and wireless card, but both can be had for under $100.
Oh, and this isn't Sager's Top-Of-The-Line. There's a whole other laptop class above it. Asus is not the king. ;)
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That's one freaking expensive processor.
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Dear god. I'm not entirely sure why anyone would pay for something more than an unlocked i7 2600K at this point.
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Dear god. I'm not entirely sure why anyone would pay for something more than an unlocked i7 2600K at this point.
It's a laptop, what unlocked CPUs?
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I'm betting the Sager suffers the same problem as my Sony though, the fan system whistles like hell.
The ASUS cooling system has better porting which ends up lowering the pitch and less annoying.
Nice systems though.
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I'm betting the Sager suffers the same problem as my Sony though, the fan system whistles like hell.
The ASUS cooling system has better porting which ends up lowering the pitch and less annoying.
Nice systems though.
Heat and Noise
When it comes to gaming laptops, it's extremely important to not only have the notebook "feel" nice and cool, but to have it actually be cool temperature wise, for the sake of the hardware. So, did this power-hungry notebook provide enough cooling fans and vents to keep the internal parts safe? For the record, the bottom of the notebook is scattered with vents, including four main exhaust vents. The backside has two large vents as well.
When we used our IR gun during the synthetic benchmark (and also during 3 hours into Crysis gameplay), we showed the highest temperature as 90 degrees F...and I almost couldn't believe it. That's an extremely low temperature reading for these high-end specs, so bravo to the designers. The lowest we measured was 78 degrees Fahrenheit.
Under stress, the two vents on the backside can be heard slightly, meaning you can hear the notebook running. It should not pose an issue, though, it's a lower murmur that is almost to be expected considering the size of the fans in the system.
And reviews disagree. The review is for the same model shown above.
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I'm betting the Sager suffers the same problem as my Sony though, the fan system whistles like hell.
The ASUS cooling system has better porting which ends up lowering the pitch and less annoying.
Nice systems though.
I had a Sager once... the NP5something.
It ran fine and stable and delivered good performance in game.... but was practically unusuable due to the Jumbojet taking off in your living room everytime you started a game...
That system had the worst/loudest fan noise I ever had the misfortune of hearing in my lifetime.
Calling it "whistling" would imho be the understatement of the month :)
As far as gaming laptops go I would recommend to completely forget any of the "barebone" kits as the cooling solution in those is pretty much inevitably utter crap.
If you want a laptop that is a) portable b) can run games decently and c) is actually usuable without major flaws (like noise, overheating, stability issues, etc.) in todays market you have little choice but to go for a quality brand with midrange components and shell out that extra cash for well thought out design.
If you go for those abominations called gaming laptops and fill them up with the most expensive components you will always end up with something that a) performs much worse than a desktop and b) offers none of the benefits that any laptop actually should offer and c) is pretty much always shoddy crap as far as build quality goes.
Worst... for the same price you would often get a desktop with the same or better specs AND a low/midrange laptop that actually gives you some portability :P
So yeah... "gaming laptops" pretty much suck, period.
Razer had a point when they boldly stated that "there are no actual gaming laptops" (none that any sane person would use anyways).
Whether their "Blade" (http://www.razerzone.com/blade) will be any good remains to be seen of course. ;) ... heat and noise would be the usual worries.
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How many years ago? Personal use tops reviews, but you must keep in mind how quick technology moves. Even the Precision M4600 isn't that loud, and it really gets going.
I mainly ask because what you're saying is the dead opposite of a review for the notebook in question.
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How many years ago? Personal use tops reviews, but you must keep in mind how quick technology moves. Even the Precision M4600 isn't that loud, and it really gets going.
I mainly ask because what you're saying is the dead opposite of a review for the notebook in question.
About 3 or 4 years ago...
... and yeah I read reviews too back then... and I have come to the conclusion that most reviewers and especially Sager fanboys must be very much deaf.
Now I don't know what they changed in the last years... but their systems do not look all that radically different... and the components they use simply get way too hot for such a design to handle in general.
So.... my guess is you will either get a true jet turbine or something that overheats and has stability/throttling issues. The 580GTX with that CPU in the build linked above there is pretty much a guarrantee for that.
Also worth noting is that the Clevo barebones they use are on the very lowend of build quality. (or that was what my impression was anyways.)
(Compared to an actual business class notebook or even any regular notebook from a quality brand they are an utter joke.)
So what you'll be getting is a chunk of high grade PC components in a badly designed plastic case that is about as durable as an eggshell and absolutely unsuited for dealing with all the heat that those components produce in any kind of "sensible" manner.
Heck... even a crappy Dell/Alienware would be a step up from THAT. LOL.
And while I am definitely not a friend of Asus laptops (ugh build quality)... at least they took the cooling problem seriously (which is why their laptops look so fat at the back.)
Finally... why get such a "laptop" at all? It has pretty much zero portability. Battery life is nonexistant in these things and the one I had couldn't even use the GPU at full power in 3dmode at all, unless it was plugged in - so you are tied to the power grid and the wheight of those monstrosities is hilarious as well.
A small desktop with a carry case/bag propably isn't really all that much less portable ;) lol.
In any case.... my advice would be to get a desktop if portability is not an issue... and a well designed 13-15 inch laptop from a quality brand with hardware that will also be "ok" to play "most" games on, although not all of them at max settings, if portability is required. Trying to have it both ways with those socalled "gaming laptop abominations" is only asking for grief. ;)
Besides... as said before for the 3800 bucks that this monstrosity costs, you actually can easily get both, a beefy desktop that can easily handle any game and a well designed laptop that can not only handle most games but is also portable. Depending on the specific desktop and notebook you buy, you would even have money left... and have higher quality computers lol.
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I'm on the fence like everyone else here, there is no wool over my eyes of price in laptop vs desktop.
I like portability in my life for CAD/Revit/Rhinoceros/3DS Max/ASP.NET type work in multiple offices and consulting.
So, yeah, sorry even a LAN Party SFF has the space and cooling capacity for a liquid system to crank on a high end GPU, it isn't as simple to carry around as a 17.3" laptop with an improved cooling system and SSD drives. My Sony is out of warranty, I may end up experimenting with the cooling, but there really isn't much to be done with it at this point, too proprietary and limited by its design to fix what is in place and still maintain portability as well. I've looked at the HP Envy Pro Book work stations, Alienware, etc...
So far these laptops above seemed to be making the best effort to address cooling higher end laptop workstations.
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Product discrip says brushed aluminum, which is something. and the review claims 580M so bare-bones it ain't (http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=6242&p=3). The Asus is plastic (need I say more?), but it would be totally badass in brushed aluminum :D Also, if I understand right, the above model is Xotic, not Clevo. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding here.
As for battery, Ya, no 'gaming' class laptop will ever have good battery. It's what happens when you try to shove desktop grade hardware into a laptop. At which point, considering the laptop keyboard and lack of mouse, you must end up wondering why not get a desktop in the first place. But that's a different topic.
Temps, We're back to reviews, which claim cold. Same is said of Asus.
Noise... My case fans run at 40dBa 24/7 :nervous: I am not the best judge.
Size/weight... Asus laptops are massive. I'm talking wtf huge. (based on above models)
-Asus: WxHxD: 420mm x 62mm x 325mm 4.3kg
-Sager: WxHxD: 412mm x 46mm x 276mm 3.9kg
-M6600: WxHxD: 416mm x 38mm x 270mm 3.5kg (high-end portable workstation for comparison)
Keep in mind: Asus does gaming rigs only, while Sager offers workstations as well (Quadro/FirePro cards basicly... there's probobably something I'm missing)
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[...]
I like portability in my life for CAD/Revit/Rhinoceros/3DS Max/ASP.NET type work in multiple offices and consulting.
[...] I've looked at the HP Envy Pro Book work stations, Alienware, etc...
So far these laptops above seemed to be making the best effort to address cooling higher end laptop workstations.
You do not want either the Sager or the Asus for that. You really don't. ;)
The Envy might work. An Alienware might be awkward at work due to it's signature look.
Not sure how good the cooling on the Envy is however and whether it would be up for heavy duty gaming as well.
I'd recommend to research well before you buy in any case... especially try to check support forums for common issues with whatever you decide to buy.
Product discrip says brushed aluminum, which is something. and the review claims 580M so bare-bones it ain't (http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=6242&p=3). The Asus is plastic (need I say more?), but it would be totally badass in brushed aluminum :D Also, if I understand right, the above model is Xotic, not Clevo. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding here.
Clevo makes the barebones... Sager puts the components in.
I can only recommend to somehow try to take a look at one of those in real life to see if it's really, really, really what you want,...
... or, at least make doubly sure that you can return it easily when it turns out to be utter crap as expected. ;)
All I can tell you is that the Sager laptop I owned a few years back was without question the worst machine I ever had the misfortune of buying. If i had had the chance to take a closer look at it in a store I would never even have thought of buying this garbage. Unfortunately I was lured in by reviews and ordered it online. And while it "worked" alright, it was just an utter crappy joke as far as build quality, fan noise and general "enjoyment of the product" goes.
As far as fan noise goes I can definitely tell you that 40db would be unacceptable for my in my desktop. I had a projector once that was rated at 40db and found it intolerable to watch movies with. However... I can definitely tell you.... the Sager machine I owned was MUCH MUCH louder (when running games) than any other piece of equipment I ever owned. (and that includes my vaccuum cleaner - and no, I'm not exaggerating... I actually tested it and could still hear the laptop over the vaccuum cleaner's noise :p LOL. )
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As far as fan noise goes I can definitely tell you that 40db would be unacceptable for my in my desktop. I had a projector once that was rated at 40db and found it intolerable to watch movies with. However... I can definitely tell you.... the Sager machine I owned was MUCH MUCH louder (when running games) than any other piece of equipment I ever owned. (and that includes my vaccuum cleaner - and no, I'm not exaggerating... I actually tested it and could still hear the laptop over the vaccuum cleaner's noise :p LOL. )
This really makes me think of a faulty part, because you're stretching the limits of believeability by this point. I've worked with rack and blade servers that a vacuum out does, so the concept that a single laptop can overpower one says either it was broken and didn't get fixed, or that I need to ask where you buy vacuums so that I may clean in peace.
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This really makes me think of a faulty part, because you're stretching the limits of believeability by this point. I've worked with rack and blade servers that a vacuum out does, so the concept that a single laptop can overpower one says either it was broken and didn't get fixed, or that I need to ask where you buy vacuums so that I may clean in peace.
Actually its the fan and air port sizes, the whistle pitch generated by them are what drown out other noises.
If I could use larger fans with better acoustical designs it would solve these issues.
I'm sort of surprised the manufacturers haven't caught on to the concept more.
With SFF's I ran into it too with small profile turbo fans and modded the cases to accomodate some larger "pretty" LED fans resulting in a much cooler air flow and much lower pitch in air racket. Acoustic design isn't just limited to this, its in any design concept, automotive, architectural, etc.... or more predominantly aircraft particularly helicopters for stealth purposes. Blade design, volume, RPM, even a concept similar to Dysons fan rings are designed for better acoustics.
http://www.dyson.com/fans/default.asp?gclid=CKrg6K6jla4CFUFN4Aod8CGNKQ
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This really makes me think of a faulty part, because you're stretching the limits of believeability by this point. I've worked with rack and blade servers that a vacuum out does, so the concept that a single laptop can overpower one says either it was broken and didn't get fixed, or that I need to ask where you buy vacuums so that I may clean in peace.
Lol that's funny... a faulty part that my "newbie self" may not have recognized?;)
Look... I've been building my own desktops for over a decade and as far as laptops go that Sager was hardly my first laptop, nor was it the last. I do believe I can tell when a fan is faulty. The Sagers certainly wasn't. It had the most annoying frequency in a volume I never thought possible... but there were no signs of scratching or it hitting something it was perfectly "regular" in it's obnoxiousness. ;) What it was... was the machine with the shoddiest build quality that I ever owned. Never again lol.
... if you are so in love with that Sager machine, or rather the components in that Sager machine (lol), you are of course free to believe what you want... and better pray that the company suddenly made a 180° turn in the last years and nowadays doesn't sell "boaahhh look at that" - components in an ultra crappy chassis anymore, while charging you the most hilarious prices... like they have been doing since, well forever
But let me tell you one thing... if you send yours in for a "faulty fan" because it is "too loud" .... customer support will be falling off their chairs from laughing.
If you take no other advice from me then at least make sure that you either try to look at one in real life before you buy.... or order it somewhere where you have the option to return it with no questions asked in the first couple of weeks. If Sager has been true to themselves you will be running for the hills when you actually hold one of their craptops in your hands. :)
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Thanks for the discussion gents. We all know it's an imperfect world.
I am glad to see the pro's and cons of these higher end laptop systems vs. actual PC's are pretty much carrying the same obviously notable POV.
Yes, more expensive, yes not up to the same performances, and yes the cooling systems leave a lot to be desired with ambient noise.
As far as aluminum vs. plastic construction goes, yeah aluminum chassis do have a better over all feel, but when looking @ 17" and above systems it shows up in the weight and doesn't prevent damage any better. Both have pro's and cons depending on the type of accidental damage they could face. Another issue with these laptops that always bugged me: the hardware buttons.
A few distinct actual hardware buttons overlooked incessantly by manufacturers that drive me nuts:
Touch pad disable/enable - Lets face it, they frakking suck when typing
Volume buttons - many use function keys instead and they suck
Display - On/Off
The rest really don't matter and seldom get used if ever and demand resource hog drivers running in the background we all usually disable anyhow.
Ionic cooling is still in development stages without yielding applied cost effective results:
http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/17381/page2/
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This really makes me think of a faulty part, because you're stretching the limits of believeability by this point. I've worked with rack and blade servers that a vacuum out does, so the concept that a single laptop can overpower one says either it was broken and didn't get fixed, or that I need to ask where you buy vacuums so that I may clean in peace.
Lol that's funny... a faulty part that my "newbie self" may not have recognized?;)
Look... I've been building my own desktops for over a decade and as far as laptops go that Sager was hardly my first laptop, nor was it the last. I do believe I can tell when a fan is faulty. The Sagers certainly wasn't. It had the most annoying frequency in a volume I never thought possible... but there were no signs of scratching or it hitting something it was perfectly "regular" in it's obnoxiousness. ;) What it was... was the machine with the shoddiest build quality that I ever owned. Never again lol.
... if you are so in love with that Sager machine, or rather the components in that Sager machine (lol), you are of course free to believe what you want... and better pray that the company suddenly made a 180° turn in the last years and nowadays doesn't sell "boaahhh look at that" - components in an ultra crappy chassis anymore, while charging you the most hilarious prices... like they have been doing since, well forever
But let me tell you one thing... if you send yours in for a "faulty fan" because it is "too loud" .... customer support will be falling off their chairs from laughing.
If you take no other advice from me then at least make sure that you either try to look at one in real life before you buy.... or order it somewhere where you have the option to return it with no questions asked in the first couple of weeks. If Sager has been true to themselves you will be running for the hills when you actually hold one of their craptops in your hands. :)
I too have been building computers for a decade, so you can stuff your 'know everything' attitude somewhere else. :D The fact you think you cant be wrong just makes you look a little silly. :p Just because the fan didn't look obviously wrong doesn't mean the bearings aren't off or something.
The argument was Sager vs Asus as king of the drool-over world. Sager wins there, their hardware in laptops is quite literly unmatched by anything asus has to offer, and even does it cheaper. Look at the thread title, then look back at what you think it's about.
Changing fans isn't a 180* turn, its called a 'single part' and they can change it whenever. If you think something as simple as a fan is hard, think again. And if you think different fans won't change anything I really must laugh. Also, look at the prices. They are doing it cheaper then the alternative. You're math is off.
They can laugh all they want, if you don't send it in if it is broken then the only fool is you. Of cource, a better option to save face is to buy one at a physical store that will replace it no questions asked. I have many of these stores, so I'm not going to suffer this sad 'oh no they laughed at me' fate.
Apperently the only one of us to make the mistake of buying something without seeing one in person is you, because I have lived by this 'advice' since my first computer. You -never- buy something big if you have no way to return it. Hell, before getting my 6970 I went to Fry's and asked if they would open a box to let me see it, they gladly did so and even put it on a board so I could hear the fan. They do that kind of thing for $350 video cards to make a sale apperently.
You say sager fanboys a lot... Yet you only put them down, and not even in comparison to other things. This is what I call anti-fanboy. In most cases, I consider their opinions worthless as all they do is shoot down a product, usualy based on a single point and not the overall. If I were you, I would seriously revise at least how you're putting them down.
You'll notice all of mine are spec vs spec, as any good argument should be. Funny how all you say is 'they suck, they suck, oh god the fan is loud the whole company SUCKS!' based off a single product and yet I see zero reviews for any Sager product backing your claim to their 'suckyness' on a quick google search, or OCN.
Thanks for the discussion gents. We all know it's an imperfect world.
I am glad to see the pro's and cons of these higher end laptop systems vs. actual PC's are pretty much carrying the same obviously notable POV.
Yes, more expensive, yes not up to the same performances, and yes the cooling systems leave a lot to be desired with ambient noise.
As far as aluminum vs. plastic construction goes, yeah aluminum chassis do have a better over all feel, but when looking @ 17" and above systems it shows up in the weight and doesn't prevent damage any better. Both have pro's and cons depending on the type of accidental damage they could face. Another issue with these laptops that always bugged me: the hardware buttons.
A few distinct actual hardware buttons overlooked incessantly by manufacturers that drive me nuts:
Touch pad disable/enable - Lets face it, they frakking suck when typing
Volume buttons - many use function keys instead and they suck
Display - On/Off
The rest really don't matter and seldom get used if ever and demand resource hog drivers running in the background we all usually disable anyhow.
Ionic cooling is still in development stages without yielding applied cost effective results:
http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/17381/page2/
Oh what I would give for a physical display off button that doesn't involve sleep mode. And dedicated volume is always a plus, this whole Fn thing is getting out of control. But WiFi should stick to Fn... Nothings worse the browsing the web and suddenly the connection goes down due to a loose physical switch on the side getting bumped.
On the subject of touchpad disable though, most laptops (Samsung, Dell, Acer, mostly) I've had to fix have some form of auto-off touchpad while typing. It seems the devs agree with you.
As always, the trade-off of useing a high-end gaming/workstation laptop is you only get some of each world. Short battery, large size, and still no where near the power of a desktop of the same class. Problems 1 and 2 dont effect me so much, but when I could put that almost $4000 into a desktop and get a nearly perfect rig and water cool it too... Each person has a line where laptops become pointless, for me thats around $2000.
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Right KyadCK go ahead and proclaim your superior knowledge over a laptop fan that existed a couple of years ago without even having seen the laptop in question.
I can only stand in awe of the technical expertise that can accomplish such a feat. It is only eclipised by your power of drooling over a machine that you have never even held in your hands or have even seen in real life...
I bow down to you sir. You have clearly recognized that Sager makes the best machines and my sole interest was to lead you astray with malicious intent. What other motive could I have to post in this thread.
They clearly have the best components for the cheapest price, there is no doubt about... and a laptop is all about what's inside and how much it costs. I must proclaim utter defeat in that argument.
To my ears... that fan ran "normal"... it kept spinning up in idle every now and then and was moderately noticeably when doing office tasks... nothing out of the ordinary... just everytime you started up a game or benchmark it spun up to vaccum cleaner defying volumes and then after you closed the game spun down again. Some fans are like that... not the ones I would use in a desktop build nowadays, but if you ever ran a non silent fan that's built for moving maximum air volume (instead of silent running) at full blast you kinda know they can be frakking loud.
... but... I guess I must be utterly mistaken. ;) It clearly must have been a defective fan because.... uh.... well you said so, right. :)
Now kidding aside... my advice is still to take a look at that Sager machine in real life or make sure that you can return it no questions asked,
because, you know, I have a very definite hands on experience with one of their laptops that could not have been any worse. An experience that had nothing to do with faulty components but with shoddy design and build quality and most specifically with the shoddy design and build quality of the Clevo chassis that most of their laptops (including the one you linked) are based on.
That's really all that I am saying. ;) Frankly... it's kinda hilarious how fiercely you defend a brand that you have no hands on experience with.
And, as I have said before, who knows.... maybe their new laptops are better now, I doubt it due to previous experience and track record... but who knows.
Be sure to let us know how happy you are with it, if you decide to get it. ;)
P.S. Roflamo they still have videos of the old leafblower up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2kGqea-N_Q What the video does not do is give you an impression of the awesome room filling characteristics of that sound, but oh well. (The first time I started Crysis I actually had people come up from downstairs to see if everything was alright.... no, not kidding. Made sure to close all doors after that. ;) )
And yeah... that sound at the start is in idle aha. (Although the constant ramping up and down, especially while in idle was eliminated with a new firmware. - the maximum fan noise in full 3d mode was still as annoying though.)
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Just going to ignore the sarcasm for now. You assumed I knew nothing, and started to act as such. In return I told you to stuff it. Sounds fair to me.
Also looked at the vid. Oh god, you actually think that's loud :wakka: Thats got nothing on a vacuum, so please, where do you buy yours that that actually over powers one? Also, its posted 4 years ago, which makes the laptop even older then that. Good reference for modern computers, nothing in the computer world changes in 4 years ever. [/sarcasm] (hey cool, I can be sarcastic in a serious argument too! This is fun!)
I never said you were a bad tech or that you're stupid, I said there may have been something wrong with the fan that you didn't check or think to check. Funny how people go online to research or ask other people for help all the time. Almost as if they didn't know everything about computers and needed someone else to give them an idea. (just a liiiitle more)
Your arguement went from:
The fan is really loud
(fair point, known to happen)
To:
Louder then a vacuum
(streching the truth a bit, maybe exaggerating to get the point across)
To:
Oh god, Sager is the worst brand ever, wtfbbq
See where this derailed?
Fiercely defend... Pointing out facts is fiercely defending. Cool. The internet in general, as well as a enthusiast forum I hang around at both very strongly disagree with you, but hey, I'm crazy.
Also, a few things to point out here.
1: This is a thread about 'want but will probably never have' tech. Hence the title: Drooling over PC gear. If you can name anyone who isnt a millionaire that would drop $4000+ on a laptop that gets its ass kicked by a $2000 desktop, let me know so I can have a good laugh.
2: You're targeting a brand and shooting all your bottled up hate at it instead of comparing to another brand. You're totally missing the point of this Asus/Sager convo.
3: but if you ever ran a non silent fan that's built for moving maximum air volume (instead of silent running) at full blast you kinda know they can be frakking loud.
My desktop consists of 3 Antec Tricool on high, 2 Corsair fans that come with the H100, 2 CM Megaflows, and the 140mm that came on back of the HAF 932 (sickleflow?) all powered directly off Molex moving about 460CFM in and 300CFM out, not including a 6970's squirrel cage fan at 65% (just over the corsair fans) when OC'd and under full load. It does not bother me. In comparison to my speakers, they are in fact silent. You're barking up the wrong tree. However, earlier you said that 40dBA would be 'unacceptable', making me think you're someone who prefers a silent rig and might exaggerate the actual loudness of a fan because you can hear it at all (slight exaggeration on my part, probably not that bad). The best judge would be a middle ground, which is not available.
4: Even if it was sarcasm, I'm just going to take that whole first 2 paragraphs as you telling the truth. Why? Because you felt it needed to be said on a topic comparing 2 computer brand, so it must be relevant to the topic at hand. Woo, I am the ultimate PC Tech! :cool:
5: You're getting waaaay to involved, you should take a coffee break.
EDIT: Another review saying the Sager I listed stays cool, and the the build quality is good: http://f4os.com/xotic-sager-np8170clevo-p170hm-notebook-review/
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KyadCK what I said is that the whine was noticable while I had my vaccum running. I actually did that for kicks because I was so disgusted with the laptop. And yes... you could could actually notice the laptop over the vaccum. That whine is very distinct. I guess it has to do with frequency.
And frankly... I do very much believe that you know nothing about the laptop I owned... you never even saw it. So there's that.
You can imagine my surprise as you started to act as if you you knew more about the machine I owned than me and jumped to the conclusion that it must be a broken fan. ;) That was quite hilarious frankly. ;)
The rest of your misunderstandings can easily be cleared up by reading the rest of the thread. ... you know, I actually pointed out that I owned that Sager a few years ago... and things *might* be different now,
but as said before... with their track record I doubt it. So my advice was to better check before you buy (or make sure you can easily return it)... would you not agree that is sensible?
... you can make of that advice as you wish. What I find funny is how fiercely you argue about a machine that you never even saw.
And me too involved? Don't be ridiculous... you can take my advice or leave it... I'm fine with that. You may want to take another look at your own replies before you proclaim who is becoming "too involved" (LOL!).
But no matter what you do with my advice, don't expect me to suddenly agree with you on "how great those Sager laptops are" .... when you never owned one, but I did... and found it to be utterly crappy. ;)
Finally in an attempt to move away from this stupid Sager discussion... and since you specifically mentioned "Sager vs. Asus" / gaming notebooks in general... while I'm no fan of Asus fully assembled products... Asus did spend thought and effort on the cooling solution. That has to be acknowledged. It's a superior design for sure.
If I had to choose between either the Sager or the Asus it wouldn't even be a question. - but... as I said before... what I would rather go for is medium range components in a chassis with top build quality and a complete package that actually deserves the name "notebook".
In this case you can actually have your cake and eat it too by getting both, a notebook and a desktop... and then you just decide which of your games you play on what. The huge majority of games released these days runs perfectly fine on midrange components... and for the few that wouldn't, you'd have your desktop.
So yeah... I don't even see the niche market for these machines... and that's coming from someone who spent around 6000 bucks on his desktop setup (including audio system, peripherals and projector), 3000 bucks in a work tablet and well... about 1000 in a truly portable secondary 13" notebook that I use for gaming when I am away. See... in my line of thinking... I would be an idiot to attempt to play every new game on an utterly unportable "gaming laptop" ... (and forego the amneties of my desktop setup)... and when I am away? Well, there is always huge number of games that I want to play... that run perfectly fine on the little laptop. ;)
I.e. ... what I am telling is that even if I got one of these socalled 4000 buck gaming laptops for *free* it would just collect dust in the corner as I just don't even see any use for it. It's no good for mobile gaming and it's laughable as a replacement for a proper desktop setup. So what is it good for?
The one "gaming notebook" I might be interested in is that new Razer (http://www.razerzone.com/blade)... because guess what? This actually looks portable. That one I would propably find a use for when I want to play games "on the move". Although I would be much more interested in a 13" or 15" version if they ever make one. Thin and light is good.... but 17" is still a bit much.
Finally.... you don't have to be a millionaire to afford drool worthy PC gear... it's just about priorities and knowing what you want. Which is my point. While you say that "only millionaires" would buy those overpriced "gaming laptops/desktop replacements" I would argue that mostly it is people who haven't really thought about what they really want or what the alternatives are.
Heck... if a millionare buys on of these things and plays on them I would frankly point my finger and laugh as that man clearly has no clue what a proper entertainment setup even looks like. ;)
So there you have it... the thread title is "drool worthy"... neither the Sager nor the Asus are that. They are products for a niche that wouldn't exist if people spent some thought on how to best enjoy the games they want to play. Multiple devices will always give you a better experience and in this case for the same or even a lower price.... and for a higher price... well there is no comparison to how much better the experience on a PC hooked up to a proper surround system and an HD projector that throws a 3meter picture on the wall is while at home. And on the move... a proper portable notebook is something you can actually game on for a few hours in the train or on the plane and especially one with an 13" form factor isn't all that much of an inconvenience while travelling.
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KyadCK what I said is that the whine was noticable while I had my vaccum running. I actually did that for kicks because I was so disgusted with the laptop. And yes... you could could actually notice the laptop over the vaccum. That whine is very distinct. I guess it has to do with frequency.
That makes more sense. compare to the original: "the Sager machine I owned was MUCH MUCH louder (when running games) than any other piece of equipment I ever owned. (and that includes my vaccuum cleaner".
You can imagine my surprise as you started to act as if you you knew more about the machine I owned than me and jumped to the conclusion that it must be a broken fan.
"Something doesnt act within standards, sounds like it's broken." somehow got interpreted by you as: "Hey you idiot! you didn't fix what was broke!". This isnt my fault. Sounds kinda like you're a bit paranoid. (maybe I shouldn't say that, you might claim I'm saying you need to go to a mental ward)
The rest of the misunderstandings can easily be cleared up by reading the rest of the thread.
Fixed it. You should probably look back to the part where things went from comparison of brands to "Brand XYZ SUCKS LOL!". It would be your 3rd post in the thread.
In my case, It would be from misunderstanding your 2nd, as seen above.
What I find funny is how fiercely you argue about a machine that you never even saw.
I argue the, and please forgive me for having to word it this way, incredibly outdated and stupidly reasoned logic behind why any given brand sucks. I would fight for just about any brand, whether I like them or not, if someone were doing what you have been. If you targeted Asus, I would be defending Asus. The only reason this has become "Defend Sager" is because you give hate with no qualification or proof that the model I listed is crap besides your claim. Keep in mind, you also have never had one of these in your hand. Instead, you compare it to a 4 year old model. Pardon me for borrowing this from you, but: LOL!
But no matter what you do with my advice, don't expect me to suddenly agree with you on "how great those Sager laptops are" .... when you never owned one, but I did... and found it to be utterly crappy.
4 Years ago. I've seen nothing online to back your claim, and as such label it as misguided hate of a brand. You need to offer proof of something before your random hatred becomes a fact. And before you go off on a tangent, remember that the model in question is not the one you owned.
Also: Quiet :D only a 8130, still lookin through youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR2z0-MSPwE
And 8150: cant hear the fan over the game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guVhAtNoyes
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4 Years ago. I've seen nothing online to back your claim, and as such label it as misguided hate of a brand. You need to offer proof of something before your random hatred becomes a fact. And before you go off on a tangent, remember that the model in question is not the one you owned.
Also: Quiet :D only a 8130, still lookin through youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR2z0-MSPwE
And 8150: cant hear the fan over the game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guVhAtNoyes
What would make me wary is that those are still Clevo Barebones that Sager finished up... and as I've said multiple times... that Clevo chassis had the worst build quality I ever saw.
Now to comment your videos... the first one where he actually focuses on the fan, do you hear it? The funny whine up down whine up down.... that alone makes me suspect that really not all that much has changed (LOL). Even if they are quieter now... they will still have craptastic build quality. Also as said before... not that Asus is all that much better build quality wise... but at least they are better from a chassis design viewpoint. Still... not a machine I would want to own.
In any case, I've owned one of their machines, you didn't. Yes it was an older one,... but it's a definite bad experience and that really is all that I am saying I had with that company. While you don't really have anything to go on except for the generic components which don't tell you a thing about build quality.
I also keep pointing out to you that things may have changed over the years, yet with the company's track record it would propably be a good idea to check beforehand or make sure you can return it, again, would you not agree to that? You keep ignoring that point.
So shall we leave the "rolleyeworthy" machines behind finally and look at something "droolworthy" again ? :)
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You keep ignoring that point.
because I have lived by this 'advice' since my first computer. You -never- buy something big if you have no way to return it.
Quote from myself. Reply #22.
look at something droolworthy
How about 2560x1600 in a 10" package? I am refering of course to Samsung's Galaxy Tab 11.6 (http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19736_7-57368409-251/samsung-may-have-a-2ghz-galaxy-tab-11.6-for-mobile-world-congress/)
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How about 2560x1600 in a 10" package? I am refering of course to Samsung's Galaxy Tab 11.6 (http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19736_7-57368409-251/samsung-may-have-a-2ghz-galaxy-tab-11.6-for-mobile-world-congress/)
Aha yeah I heard about that... last time I read about it people were wondering if it had a new kind of processor - to support that resolution - and it looks like it does.
Samsung is putting out a lot of devices lately... not all of them sensible - but I'd agree on pretty much all of them being droolworthy. lol. ;)
Now how about something truly decadent that not only costs a crapload of money but even has an upkeep cost (in the form of replacement lamps) - but, as a gaming "monitor" replacement will give you an experience that can not be compared to any regular monitor or even plasma TV. (And yes this projector specifically can be considered "gaming grade" due to it's low amount of input lag.) http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-PT-AE4000U-Lumen-Theater-Projector/dp/B002W7CW32/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
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Note to self: come back to this topic in the heat of summer and post some audio of my ****ty clamshell Dell's sole fan sounding something like a 747 at full takeoff. :p
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Since we were talking fans, something drool worthy made in Germany: http://www.noiseblocker.de/en/index.php (The Multiframe series :) )
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Noise Blocker M12-S2 (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8401/fan-517/Noiseblocker_NB-Multiframe_M12-S2_120mmx25mm_Ultra_Silent_Fan_-_1250_RPM_-_19_dBA.html): 51cfm 19dBA $22.95
Cooler Master Sickleflow (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103090): 69.7cfm 19dBA $9.99 ($4.99 after MIR)
Noise Blocker M12-S3HS (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8410/fan-518/Noiseblocker_NB-Multiframe_M12-S3HS_120mmx25mm_Ultra_Silent_Fan_-_1800_RPM_-_27_dBA.html): 73cfm 27dBA $22.95
C'mon Germans, step it up.
EDIT: No I dont want to hear about the shock absorber frame, rubber gromets do the same thing much cheaper.
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You are forgetting that Noiseblockers data is actually checked by an official authority.
Also, 6 year warranty and build quality + reliability that will put cooler master to shame. :)
Finally... db measurements doesn't really tell you *how* a fan sounds, which often plays a large part in how noticable it is.
Noiceblocker is impeccable in that regard.
Finally, while you dis the rubber frame... that frame is quite a huge deal when you actually try it out. :p
It's a lot more rubber than what is used in any alternative solutions and dampens vibrations a huge deal better than one of these extra rubber frames that go between the fan and the case on the one hand... and it it doesn't add a single mm to fan height, nor does it add that gap between the fan intake and the fan that rubber pins create.
What you get is a fan that is just as easy and flexible to install as a non damped fan but that is more effective at dampening vibrations than any other solution.
The Coolermaster will certainly serve and is much more cost effective. If you tweak properly and install everything in a dampened case then as far as performance goes you can propably design a system with either fan and won't be able to tell the difference without opening it up. Not at first... but my guess is that after about 3 years of use you could tell immidiately which system was which hehe LOL.
Some of the Noiseblockers I have are 5 years old now... and they perform like on day 1, I believe that's an impressive feat. :) But to each their own. :)
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You are forgetting that Noiseblockers data is actually checked by an official authority.
Alright, Now i'm seeing it, but $23 per fan is still nuts.
Also, 6 year warranty *ignoreing dis to the best case makes*
6 years huh... so it is
Finally... db measurements doesn't really tell you *how* a fan sounds, which often plays a large part in how noticable it is.
Noiceblocker is impeccable in that regard.
I can tell you that a sickleflows are silent (tested for the whole 5 mins before i shoved it full of loud fans, came stock on the back of the 932, although that is a 140mm, its rated at 17dBA)
Finally, while you dis the rubber frame... that frame is quite a huge deal when you actually try it out. :p
It's a lot more rubber than what is used in any alternative solutions and dampens vibrations a huge deal better than one of these extra rubber frames that go between the fan and the case on the one hand... and it it doesn't add a single mm to fan height, nor does it add that gap between the fan intake and the fan that rubber pins create.
I have yet to hear any fan cause noise through vibration by any fan in any case actually, as far as I know, its a myth made by people not tightening the screws enough... The only reason I bring up rubber grommets at all is from people with noise-phobia (whatever the real word is, not that interested) on OCN actually discussing what brand of rubber ring is the best. :rolleyes: (computer is on carpet, not desk or anything)
What you get is a fan that is just as easy and flexible to install as a non damped fan but that is more effective at dampening vibrations than any other solution.
See above.
The Coolermaster will certainly serve and is much more cost effective. If you tweak properly and install everything in a dampened case then as far as performance goes you can propably design a system with either fan and won't be able to tell the difference without opening it up.
Wont be able to tell the difference period* the HAF 932 is dead silent before anything is done to it. The only problem is they assume 200mm fans are worth a damn compared to two (or 4: side door) 120mm :p
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I have yet to hear any fan cause noise through vibration by any fan in any case actually, as far as I know, its a myth made by people not tightening the screws enough... The only reason I bring up rubber grommets at all is from people with noise-phobia (whatever the real word is, not that interested) on OCN actually discussing what brand of rubber ring is the best. :rolleyes: (computer is on carpet, not desk or anything)
It's not the fan that will vibrate/make more noise as such. It's the case that starts to swing and everything that is not a 100 percent secured or has some flex will start to swing accordingly.
The side doors are usually the worst offender. Now if you expect some obvious rattling you will of course be disappointed ;) How much of an issue that actually is also depends on the cases quality and whether the case itself is dampened. Those noise dampening mats for example are great for suppressing side door vibrations as well.
However.... unless you really build for *silent* it's not really an issue... as a single non silent fan will be much more of an issue than any vibration problems.
Once you have something that is reasonably silent however you can definitely tell the difference between a completely undamped case with undampened silent fans... a case with rubberized silent fans and a fully dampened case. The difference is rather drastic and one of the reasons for that is the elimination of case vibration - not the actual fan noise.
My compromise is this: I have a fridge. I can't make that more silent. However... as my computer is pretty much running the whole day for work... it has to make less noise than the fridge in office mode. ;)
For work I need an environment without distraction, the fridge is silent enough not to be a bother..., and a silent/unintrusive computer is a matter of productivity and concentration when you use a computer for work, or at least it is for me.
While gaming with audio on it's of course a different situation as well. But heh... at some point I'll prolly go watercooling just to have tried that - although whether I stay with it will propably depend on whether this stuff needs maintainance or not.