Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => Fate of the Galaxy => Topic started by: mandobardanjusik on February 09, 2012, 06:06:58 pm
-
ok, with the utility tug needing bobbtman's help to finish the texture, I have been working with some help from swash to do some reimaging on the dagger stafighter, and we have finished the mesh, and I am now awaiting brand-x's approval on it, though I am working on the UV now.
so here is a bit of background. THe dagger starfighter was the predecessor to the Tie fighter, and was sold to a large amount of pirates and mercanies. Shortly prior to the wars open selling was stopped, and a decent stockpile was created, however sienar kept them in storage during the war, afterwards with the instatement of Imperial doctrine it was used to develop the TIE fighter, as it itself didnt fit into it with its hyperdrive, and medium cost, and also with a length of 14meters. still used by the empire at remote posts, and for patrols in areas where only a handful of corvettes and cruisers are available. quite a few were acquired by the Rebels from mercs and some smaller groups, along with other older craft like the Z-95. its engines have been heavily improved to give it an edge. for the most part its stats are similar to the tie fighter, however it is extremely fast with its 3 main engine intakes, though not very maneuverable. note, none of this is official, just some of my thoughts, and some balance related stuff that swash and I discussed slightly
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/daggerfinal1.jpg)
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/daggerfinal2.jpg)
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/daggerfinal3.jpg)
-
Could you try making a TIE Phantom based on this model?
A cloaking fighter could be a nice addition to FoTG.
-
well, its an option, but its up to swash and chief it will fit game-dynamics wise, and of course brand has final say on all designs. Also any comments on the dagger?
-
Looks nice, like some sort of TIE Phantom prototype. I guess it could work as a predecessor of TIE series.
-
If it's non-canon, maybe a little adjustment to the backstory would be nice.
Like this kind of design being abondened in favour of the much cheaper TIE fighter, but when it showed that the TIE just didn't cut it, some of the features of the Dagger were incorporated into the TIE design to create the TIE Interceptor and later the Phantom.
-
well, it is canon, though little is known about it during and after the clone wars, the only thing known for sure is that it realy IS canonicly the predecessor to the tie fighter, so saying that it was used to develop other fighters as well isnt out of the question. also, the deal can be is that the X-38 was direct redesign and upscaling of it. so yeah we can be very flexible with its OT/dark times story. final back story is up to either chief or swash I think.
-
There is a very simple definition of canon. Anything that was in the movies is canon. Anything else isn't. Otherwise all of the EU craft that ended up on wookiepedia could be considered canon, which is a very short step from saying everything is. So no, it' isn't canon. That doesn't mean that it automatically sucks or doesn't have a place in the game - games often need to expand on things seen on screen due to their nature. But you can't just go call something canon because it's on wookiepedia (I assume it is anyway).
-
ok, then it is game canon, EU, not official movie canon
-
There is a very simple definition of canon. Anything that was in the movies is canon. Anything else isn't. Otherwise all of the EU craft that ended up on wookiepedia could be considered canon, which is a very short step from saying everything is. So no, it' isn't canon. That doesn't mean that it automatically sucks or doesn't have a place in the game - games often need to expand on things seen on screen due to their nature. But you can't just go call something canon because it's on wookiepedia (I assume it is anyway).
You're talking about G-canon. The EU is a different level of canon, but everything made up by official authors (Zahn, Luceno, LucasArts) are canon. Therefore everything on Wookieepedia (unless explicitly stated by a template) is canon.
-
although, FOTG is very loose with anything other than movie canon, however generaly conflicting or incorrect views of a craft are ignored, and sometimes an original description will be taken over views from later books, or guide books. now any comments on the craft itself?
-
You knkow what dragon, you just gave me an idea, so here is a slightly revised history of the Dagger, with something of a little retcon. The V-38A Dagger was a starfighter designed by Republic Sienar systems, and sold to mercany and other small military groups, and became quite popular, though afterwards, Sienar realized the potential, and stopped selling them prior to the clone wars, acquiring a stockpile, however they saw very little action during the war. after Order 66 Sienar systems proposed the Dagger for the new imperial fleet, however due to its size, cost and hyperdrive, it was ignored as a main fleetfighter, however it was still used in remote locations, and as a scout, for many years. when it was realized that the TIE fighter was ineffective against rebel fighters, the Dagger was evaulated, and used to help design the TIE interceptor, as it was used to design the basic TIE. SFS also decided that an enlarged version with an improved verion of the Twin Ion Engine, could be used as a scout craft, and named it the V-38B, as it was mainly an enlarged version of the Dagger, and the design caught the eye of Grand admiral Batch who decided it would be perfect for his cloaking device(REF: TIE PHANTOM)
of course, this all depends on wheter or not its passed, and technicly the backstory isnt my job, and the final one is not up to me
-
I certainly like the story, though again I'd also like to propose some small changes:
"The V-38A Dagger was a starfighter designed by Republic Sienar systems, sold in limited numbers to mercenaries and small military groups. With the changing political situation and the imminent clone wars, Sienar stopped selling the popular Dagger on the free market and instead build up a stockpile of the fighters in preparation of a major deal with the Republic. Since the negotiations were still ongoing during the war, only few Daggers, serving as combat evaluation models, saw action in service of the Republic fleet prior to Order 66.
With the massive changes that the restructuring of the Republic into the Galacic Empire brought, Sienar systems saw their chance and proposed the Dagger for the new imperial fleet, however due to it's size and cost (mostly due to the hyperdrive), it was ignored as a main fleetfighter, seeing service almost exclusively for scouting and patrolling of remote imperial holdings, though it was also used as a technology testbed, pioneering many systems later used to build the TIE fighter.
When it was realized that the TIE fighter was ineffective against rebel fighters, the Dagger was re-evaulated, and used to help design the TIE interceptor, just like it was used to design the basic TIE. SFS also decided that an enlarged version with improved Twin Ion Engines, could be used as a dedicated scout craft, and named it the V-38B, as it was mainly an enlarged version of the Dagger.
The design also caught the eye of Grand Admiral Batch, who decided it would be perfect for his cloaking device(REF: TIE PHANTOM)"
-
That sounds great to me Norbert, thanks for cleaning it up, now the question just is, what does th important members of the team think
-
If the model ends up meeting Brand's standards, making a fitting tech entry won't be a problem. The actual question is: can you finish a model?
-
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/imperial_dagger.jpg) Hi you guys, here is the base color of the dagger, for the imperial version, it is mainly a couple shades of grey, and a lot of normal mapping related stuff. the rebel version on the other hand is very worn down, has a base whiteish color like the x-wing, however with marking stripes and symbols of varying colors, and several faded overlaping symbols, and a lot of blastmarks
-
ok, say hello to the rebel version of the dagger. both need a lot of depth map work will need a lot of work, and it goes to both, but they have individual colors. the Rebels have been hunting a down fighters, and an organization of righteous correllian mercs have brought with them several squadrons of dagger starfighters, and a pair of correllian corvettes. these daggers were bought second hand, and were done in green and white, when brought over to the alliance, most of the green paint was removed quickly, but some older red paint was revealed, and the newer blue paint was paritialy applied(I think I might add a bit more green). and there are several overlapping fading symbols(not on there yet). The ships hulls are decently maintained, however there is plently of wear, however the correlians, and other pilots have upgraded and improved their engines, to the point where they are even faster than before. it is one of the fastest ships used by the rebellion, and its earliest interceptor, but is not overly agile. also a visible difference is that the revel bersion has an orange engine afterburner, while the imperial has yellow.
[pictures removed due to current realvency ;) by poster]
-
Could you make a separate version with green, red and blue texture?
Or even better, a version adapted to use with team colors (check the SCP board to see how to do it).
-
sorry dragon, I cant really do team colors, for 2 reasons. 1) it is still beyond my ability, 2) I am not the biggest fan, as I have used em before in another engine.
however, color variations are not out of the question, though what colors, are up to me(I might throw in an orange one too)
-
Hey, it's the TIE Pride :P
-
? it only has 3 colors, its supposed to look like its had a lot of owners. and its not a tie
-
I don't think it looks good. It should have a single color paint scheme. You could make a few version of the texture, in different colors.
No offense, but your explanation for why it has so many colors doesn't sound very plausible, nor is it consistent with SW universe (rebels pain their ships in accordance to the color of a squadron they're serving in).
-
well, I was only planning to have one ship set that way, and they would be the earliest, I am currently working on the normal rebel one now, and it is white and blue, and plan to do a correllian squad wiht green and white ones. and team colors wont work, cause I plan to give em ensignias, and some differing color areas
-
I understand what you're trying to do with the rebel version, but it just looks BAD. Either rethink the concept or it needs much better execution.
-
{note, rethought, made this prior to your statement count}
ok, since I guess I more or less agree with dragon(though, not all squadrons are named after colors)
so here are the three variants(note these are all WIPS, and not only the colors, but also the normal map, and all the detailing for all the versions need work(as they all use the same normal map)
so, they are Blue, Orange, and Correllian/green(could also be the non-alligned color)
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/blueredgreen.jpg)
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/daggersquad.jpg)
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/blue_and_green.jpg)
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/daggerorange.jpg)
-
Oh, just kidding. But tbh that doesn't look like paint peeling off showing undercoats of different colors, it looks more like a really weird paint job. If you want paint chips, try to look at what real ones look like. And think where these would occur the most - namely around the hard edges of surfaces. So you'll want more chipping (which should have hard edges) along the edges, and not just random large areas of different coloration.
-
well, really first thing I need to figure out basic texture, so its back to the imp one. second I stink at texturing, so what will get done on my watch is another question, I am just trying to get it to the rate to get ingame
-
Those three look much better, can't wait to see the Dagger in-game.
-
Thank you Dragon, now I just have the nightmare of figuring out what to do for the detailing(that is shared by all of them including imp) combined with the normal map.... as as always, this is an area where I have few thoughts where to go
-
First off, I have been modeling for a while. Second, the engine is still solid so it is actualy a VERY easy fix. oh and I already baked an AO
sorry I dont mean to be rude, I am fixing it now, I just hate having to redo the uv map and texture, as I am weak at it and I find it a real pain. also I have been doing this while consquently showing swash
-
ok,, I made the fix using symetry, no I am not posting a wireframe, and no I am not welding the engine, as that is a waste of polys, and I luckily only need to do only a few more fixes
-
hey greyleader, and star slayer, if you want to talk, pop on hardlight IRC
-
ok, I am sorry, I dont mean to sound arrogant, I am just getting tired of having to do, and redo my models, and its starting to get frustrating.... and no I dont have industry, I have been doing this as a hobby over the past year, and I have put out a lot of models for a handful of mods for an RTS, and I have been working on transitioning to this engine, because it gives me a chance to do more with my hobby. and I am also not entirly sure what tool you mean, I use max
-
He has posted one ship's UV before, and it went through quite a bit of critiquing. Not saying this one can't use it too, but he's not necessarily afraid of that.
-
I am not afraid of the critqing, I have actualy been working heavily on getting this to the right level with a couplle of the guys on the IRC, and specialy Swash, I just prefer working with a handful of people than open, because I find getting overcritiquing exxtremely frustrating. also, though I may not be a pro I do not consider myself a newbie either, as I have done a ton of models over the past year, however they have mainly been for SW EAW FOC, and I have been working on getting to this level for the past couple months. I am not afraid of advice, however I do somewhat trust my skills. also, I have fixed the issues by symetring most of the model, but note, it is still only 2992 tris
-
and you know what, everyone is entitled to thier own opinion, and I am going to try to fix my mesh the hard way rather than symetry, then fix the minor uv errors that will occur, while presercing a good part of the uv, and also greyleader you know what, I bake an AO everytime to keep an eye out for errors, so I do know what I am doing, and I know what I need to fix I just messed up one minor thing, and the reason I dont post a wireframe, is not because i am afraid, but rather because I only post them when I need help, as when I am working on the model the first important thing is visuals, then polys, because my first priotity is getting the right appearance to get a model ingame, and its not my modeling skills I am worried about. And I am always willing to ask for help, just ask the guys on the IRC, i proably get annoying with how many times I ask, and thanks you guys for tolerating me. and also its more my texturing skill I am worried about because that is a BIG weakness of mine
-
Ok so I fixed the mesh issues, and with minimal mesh distortion. I think I got the base rebel colors figured out pretty well, though I think that some of the detailing work is beyond my skill level, so I am hunting after a texturer for this model(same deal as on my WIP thread)
-
ok decided to work on the texture, so here is the solar panels. ignore the whiteness, I still need to tweak the lighting, I am working on further detailing now(not sure what it will be but i am working on it
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/solar_panel.jpg)
-
Looks OK.
-
thanks dragon, its both easy and tricky to do solar panels, also, I think I will more go off either the x-wing or a-wing for details.... trying to work on it, but its not an area of my expertise
-
I'm not sure that thing needs lasers...it could just skewer enemy fighters on those spikes. :D
-
ya well you could say the same thing about the TIE interceptor ;) and I only know of one ship capable of that, the Basilisk wardroid, though sadly I highly doubt us seeing that ingame any time soon
-
ok so I have got some big news. the other night, with Some help from Thaeris, I have essentialy, remade and reimagined the dagger. it is now much better and cooler looking, and looks more starwarsish. note its still a WIP, but I think this is a better version
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/dagger_back_WIP.jpg)
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/dagger_front_WIP.jpg)
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/dagger_WIP.jpg)
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/dagger_wip2.jpg)
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/dagger_wipback.jpg)
-
Good. Really good. Though the cockpit looks too small.
-
actualy it fits well, considering the fact that it is 14meters long, thats longer than an x-wing, however it isnt done and does need a tad bit of tweaking, and the exterior isnt done, but I did put a realitive scaling figure in it
-
The cockpit does need to be integrated more. Right now you've got the fuselage, and you have the cockpit stuck on the front. The easiest way to fix it would be to scale the cockpit up so that it wraps around the to the sides of the ship, much like the engine intakes do right now. You won't even need to do some boolean compound thing. Just drag the back of the cockpit past the halfway mark on the fuselage, then cap it.
And you're right about it feeling more like a SW starship. It's looking good.
-
ok took bobbs iddea, gave it a try, though I am going to hopefully walk with him a bit about it tomorrow, as it needs some more tweaking (http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/daggernewcockpit2.jpg) (http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/daggernewcockpit.jpg)
-
That makes a significant difference, for the best at that.
-
Much better. It looks much more "balanced" in terms of proportions.
-
I managed to catch Brand, and I got some advice from him, and using that, I did a partial redesign of the engine intake, and I believe it fits in better, and looks better, hope you guys think so too(and brand I fixed that other issue as well)
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/newpresetationwips1.jpg)
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/newpresetationwips2.jpg)
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/newpresetationwips3.jpg)
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/newpresetationwips4.jpg)
-
Yes, it does fit better. It looks really good now, keep up the good work. :yes:
-
I really like the new cockpit. It blends with the silhouette of the ship much better than before. This is really shaping up. Nice to see that Brand isn't having to do all the models now. It always seemed like, even with his amazing skill, that he could use someone to share the modeling load with.
-
well there has been Bobb, and a couple of other guys, including axem have helped out here and there. and I have been modeling for a bit now, I am just new to this engine and communitty. also good news I managed to pull a favor on getting the scimitar and warpod textured. hopefully they will be good enough
-
ok a couple more changes
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/changes.jpg)
also I am pretty sure when I get around to texturing I want to do a variation with correllian colors(white and green) I mean, what better ship for guys who dont care about the odds :lol:
-
I've found a ship on Wookiepedia which fits Dagger's design quite well: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/V38_assault_fighter
V38 Dagger sounds quite good, and it seems it wasn't a part of TIE series. It's also very similar to the TIE Phantom, yet also quite different.
Since fitting a cloaking device to such an old ship would require extensive overhaul, TIE Phantom looks noticeably different than V38.
-
dragon, we made that connection on page 1 I think, not to be rude
-
Oh, right, sorry. Silly me. :)
It was a long time ago, and I forgot (it's mentioned about once in the entire thread).
-
At least twice for sure. Once when he wrote the first draft of the backstory and a second time when I build a bit on that :P
-
well, its back, I may not have heard from brand yet, however after talking to swash I have decided to go ahead and try uving and texturing it (again). so here are some new pics (http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/dagfin.jpg)
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/dagfin2.jpg)
-
ok thought a small update here might be nice, I finished the uv map a couple weeks ago, however the texture is kinda just sitting, becuase I dont have a clue what direction to go in detail wise, yes it is a TIE predecssor, however designing an entire detail setup from scratch is no easy task
-
ok good news, I managed to do some talking, and I am now getting some help from Black Wolf, now there is still plenty of work left but here is a nice look so far
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/quickshot.jpg)
-
I don't think I like the brown. Imperial fighters were always gray or very dark blue.
-
well does need a bit more refinement, part of the idea was that most of these are deployed in the outer-mid rim, flown by mercs, mess-ups, or the essentialy insane pilots, and most of these have been around since the end of clone wars, so they have a bit more character
-
Still, the brown doesn't look like it belongs there. It just looks "tacked on", with no logical reason why it's there. Same goes for the blue stripe, which appears on the cockpit, well, out of the blue. :)
-
well that blue strip as you put it, is a brace that is on most members of the tie series, I just need to find the right shade. also the brown part is a nosecone, like on the x-wing
-
I just need to find the right shade
Try the color picker?
-
ok nothing to big, been messing with some possible coloring schemes, hopefully more soon (http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/daggerblue_gold.jpg) (http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/daggerredncromish.jpg)
-
ok the blue&gold is now supended unless requested. so here are a couple of current takes, and several texture improvements as well
(http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/daggerimpr1.jpg) (http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/daggergain.jpg) (http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/daggerimpr3.jpg) (http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/daggerimpr2.jpg)
-
Think I'll name mine "Dolly"...
-
whoops forgot to do one with the alternate gold colored metal sections, so here is one that might be a correllian flight leader, I was thinking some correlian mercs would proably be crazy enough to fly these (http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4853/green_looksrathergood.jpg)
also yes I did one red, though it doesnt need the color to make it go faster, as this is proably one of the fastest ships you can fly
-
THe red colored Dagger reminds me on the red TIE Interceptor of the Emperor's Royal Guard which appeared in SW:Galaxies.
-
actualy, it showed up in the comics back in the 90s, but you do have a point ;) maybe that should be its imp colors, and maybe thats where it came from
-
Nice modelling thus far.
IMO, drab brown/tans all over would be ideal for the "mercenary" look. Other than that, maybe just a standard TIE muted grey/blue palette. I'd nix the metallic sheen though, it makes it look very... 90s CGI (and not very Star Wars, for that matter!) ;)
Oh, and yay, first post! I have. Been lurking. For ages. :rolleyes:
-
Oh, and yay, first post! I have. Been lurking. For ages. :rolleyes:
"That's good! You've taken your first step into a larger world." -Obiwan
-
:welcome:
I'd start with the grey version, as it makes sense to deal with visually distracting color scheme stuff after the greebles are done, just like IRL.
-
:welcome:
I'd start with the grey version, as it makes sense to deal with visually distracting color scheme stuff after the greebles are done, just like IRL.
A agree. Also, when you do start back on the colors, you'll probably want to tone them back several notches. Paint in the movies is invariably very faded, chipped, and worn off. Right now it looks like those pieces are made of colored plastic instead of metal with a coat of paint.
-
:welcome:
A-thank-you :cool:
I'd start with the grey version, as it makes sense to deal with visually distracting color scheme stuff after the greebles are done, just like IRL.
Yep. Once a suitably detailed "bare bones" texture is done you could then start experimenting with different colour variations. :)
-
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/Dagger-1_zps7c946a18.jpg)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/Dagger-2_zps3a75492b.jpg)
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/rhettro1/Dagger-3_zps89b02d31.jpg)
A while ago Mando asked me for help on texturing the Dagger (even though I'm a novice myself). I've taken as far as I want to. I think this is a good starting point for some additional schemes if anyone is so inclined.
-
:eek2: That is awesome Rhettro Thank you so much, still needs more polishing but you have done far more than I could have, cant wait to do some rebel colors! I may finaly see one of my ships ingame
-
Nice, looks like it's coming right along. Some of the flat areas have places where it seems like there are panels and other lines that overlap kind of strangely, but overall it's starting to look pretty cool. :yes:
-
Sexy. Now make it have the firing noises from Star Wars Starfighter and we'll be all set. :P
-
Sexy. Now make it have the firing noises from Star Wars Starfighter and we'll be all set. :P
This version makes the original look like mincemeat XD, and it looks like an actual Tie predecessor of sorts, but that would be a fun homage.
On another note, if I can manage to finish the texture, and when this gets ingame, I think I may try at a new ship this summer, but with a clean slate, any ideas you guys?
Also on the texture, I will take any tips you guys have on what I need to do to finish it
-
Sexy. Now make it have the firing noises from Star Wars Starfighter and we'll be all set. :P
This version makes the original look like mincemeat XD, and it looks like an actual Tie predecessor of sorts, but that would be a fun homage.
On another note, if I can manage to finish the texture, and when this gets ingame, I think I may try at a new ship this summer, but with a clean slate, any ideas you guys?
Also on the texture, I will take any tips you guys have on what I need to do to finish it
I knew what this would be before I even clicked the topic. I remember tangling with these in Star Wars Starfighter also. I'll drop a video I found so the Star Wars Starfighter Dagger can be compared to this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAp0NHlGyDo
Apologies if this has already been done.
-
Its fine, however we did go for a major reimagining to make it better fit into the movie style, I at least think that its cooler as well :)
-
At least give us a mission where we can fly it. :P
-
Hey I am all for it, and it goes with almost every faction depending on the time period XD but its up to the team
-
I wouldn't mind building a mission that used it. A single-mission experience from a pirate group perspective. Pop some Uglies in it, maybe? :P
That being said, I need to learn how to use FRED first.
-
Ok, thought I would give an update. I am still alive, and this is still alive, in fact only thing that needs finishing is the texture.... problem is that I absolutely stink at texturing, so I have no idea if I am getting anywhere soon, but if you guys have any thoughts I would be happy to hear them
-
Make a p3d model.
-
already have one just had to make sure it was all the correct stuff(I hope)
there are also normal texture and a reflective one, but they're not set up right for P3D
-
Nice 404 here.
-
To use the new p3d tags, you just enter the p3d ID there (in this case PSalM) rather than the whole hyperlink.
That said, the ship and texture aren't supposed to show up separately like that, so something else is wrong.
-
Ok, this should hopefully work right(fingers crossed) the solar panel details are in the normal map, which needs some work
-
The (main?) engine needs a bit more detailing. Speaking of which, are there four of them? The wings look like it'd glow like the back of the Millenium Falcon.
-
there are the 3 on the wings, with the center being a hyperdrive exhaust(kinda links to how the Tie fighter has a huge exhaust port)