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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Thaeris on March 05, 2012, 09:15:40 pm

Title: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: Thaeris on March 05, 2012, 09:15:40 pm
Science and technology have done wonders of both good and evil to society, and I'd like to think we generally settle on the good side of things, or we would have anihilated ourselves a long while back. Now, one of our major scientific promptors is the desire to kill each other, as we all know. And fortunately, we really don't kill all that many of each other these days (in the very broad scope of things), but oh do we think about it. Take a look at this:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/05/darpas-robotic-cheetah-sets-a-land-speed-record/

Now, eventually, much good may come out of robotics development such as this, very much good indeed. As a scientist/engineer (student, but still...), I personally look forward to that good. But you're not going to see that good very soon, I gaurantee it. I make this rant of sorts not on the basis of fear of development, but as a question of ethics: for what possible reasons is DARPA delving into such research? I do not know. But I can tell you, personal, healthy interest is very much not in mind.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: stinkyFeet on March 05, 2012, 10:09:50 pm
While we're hating on Darpa, don't forget about them absorbing the x-37, the plane that was supposed to replace the shuttle. Also, they leaked all the tech for the f-35 to the oppressive government of China.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: Mongoose on March 05, 2012, 10:12:35 pm
Usain Bolt, you are now mankind's last hope.  Godspeed.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: Thaeris on March 05, 2012, 10:15:04 pm
I would never go so far as to claim they leaked anything to China, unless it was faulty information. The Chinese may still be a little behind in the technology race, but they've been reverse engineering and using intel to gather foreign technology for long enough to have snatched up what they were after without our help. With all the industry we and other western powers have shipped over there, I doubt they need much help getting ahead anyway.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: Nuke on March 05, 2012, 10:15:32 pm
so it can run faster than grandma can drive?

but still this is just darpa doing its job. this is what they do. come up with better ways to slaughter hordes of slow driving elderly women, also building war machines. if it wasnt for war we would have nothing. think about it, the best stuff we have was invented for war. computers were originally built to compute accurate artillery tables. space tech was built to deliver nuclear warheads and spy satellites, space exploration was only used as an excuse to sell the r&d costs for ballistic missiles to the taxpayer. do you honestly think gps was launched to guide navigationaly challenged motorists? it was launched to guide munitions. we wouldnt have nuclear reactors if we didnt first use nuclear technology to destroy. sure it can be used to produce power for the general public. the fact that the processing of nuclear material is also essential for nuclear weapons production is entirely coincidental.

when the aliens invade or in this case, the ais attempt to take over, wont you be glad that we are a grusome warrior race and not a harmonious race of hippies?
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: Thaeris on March 05, 2012, 10:22:34 pm
Oh no, I never contested that. :p

While lethal competition succeeds at driving us further, which I noted in the initial post, I'm also noting that it's very unfortunate that such is the case. With the case of the subject in the video, it's very clear what purposes this system is designed for, and for reasons I can't completely log down, I'm somehow very appaled by it. Good things to come, none of it soon for you.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: StarSlayer on March 05, 2012, 10:26:15 pm
it's very clear what purposes this system is designed for, and for reasons I can't completely log down, I'm somehow very appaled by it. Good things to come, none of it soon for you.

You mean to automate the dog races?
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: redsniper on March 05, 2012, 10:29:33 pm
Threatdown++;

I'm becoming more and more convinced that robot uprising is the most likely end-of-humanity scenario.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: stinkyFeet on March 05, 2012, 10:34:33 pm
I would never go so far as to claim they leaked anything to China, unless it was faulty information. The Chinese may still be a little behind in the technology race, but they've been reverse engineering and using intel to gather foreign technology for long enough to have snatched up what they were after without our help. With all the industry we and other western powers have shipped over there, I doubt they need much help getting ahead anyway.

Gah, sorry again. This is getting embarrassing. I used the word incorrectly. Chinese hackers got the stuff we spent money on researching for the F-35. Even I wouldn't think it was intentional either.  But it is bad that we created the knowledge of how to make a really good weapon and then didn't keep it secure.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: Thaeris on March 05, 2012, 11:04:06 pm
Anytime you commit something to an online storage medium, you run the risk of having that data tampered with or lost. Thus, an assortment of propositions to track online dealings and transactions is an inherently bad idea, which is also something I can hate my government for from trying to enact.

Thus, while it is unfortunate that data was stolen, understand that we do the same thing to countless other nations. It's called espionage, and no major power is guiltless of it. We always try to keep it secure, but there's also always a way to break in.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 06, 2012, 12:35:20 am
for what possible reasons is DARPA delving into such research?

If you honestly can't just start naming them...
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: General Battuta on March 06, 2012, 01:04:51 am
Thaeris, I honestly do not understand quite what you are worried about. Cybernetic locomotion, proprioceptive AI -- these are hugely challenging engineering problems with ramifications for the future of all kinds of robotics, from robo-mules to robotic rescue dogs to simply creating android bodies.

There is no practical need for a robot cheetah to kill people; a gun can and will do the job better. But there's enormous practical need for the technologies required to make a robot cheetah. This looks, if anything, like a promising sign of progress.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: Nuke on March 06, 2012, 01:25:50 am
I would never go so far as to claim they leaked anything to China, unless it was faulty information. The Chinese may still be a little behind in the technology race, but they've been reverse engineering and using intel to gather foreign technology for long enough to have snatched up what they were after without our help. With all the industry we and other western powers have shipped over there, I doubt they need much help getting ahead anyway.

Gah, sorry again. This is getting embarrassing. I used the word incorrectly. Chinese hackers got the stuff we spent money on researching for the F-35. Even I wouldn't think it was intentional either.  But it is bad that we created the knowledge of how to make a really good weapon and then didn't keep it secure.

you guys do realise the f35 was a design meant from day one to be sold as an export? of course when the us exports an aircraft they usually omit some of the cutting edge tech (like the software package, sensor equipment, stealth features, etc), so that our model is always superior to the export model.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: BloodEagle on March 06, 2012, 04:00:43 am
There is no practical need for a robot cheetah to kill people; a gun can and will do the job better.

#1. Fear / Psychological Warfare
#2. Decreased collateral damage (as opposed to bullets) / casualties
#3. Rule of Cool (this is a totally practical reason  :P)
#4. Dude, it's a freaking cheetah that's made out of metal.  Imagine the war stories!
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: Mika on March 06, 2012, 04:27:01 am
There is always a reason to suspect the information gained by espionage. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_pipeline_sabotage)

Personally, I think this is one of the less directly harmful research DARPA could do. DARPA has an autonomous vehicles competition as well which results could be useful for civilian market at some point of time. I'm curious about the standing robots Japanese introduced a couple of years ago, what kind of progress has been made on two feet robots?
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: Ghostavo on March 06, 2012, 04:49:01 am
I, for one, welcome our new Mechanical Zergling overlords...
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: Wobble73 on March 06, 2012, 07:52:07 am
Miniature "Metal Gear Rex" anyone?
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: Hellstryker on March 06, 2012, 08:53:40 am
There is no practical need for a robot cheetah to kill people; a gun can and will do the job better.

Wait until they start mounting guns on them.  :shaking:
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: StarSlayer on March 06, 2012, 12:57:53 pm
There is no practical need for a robot cheetah to kill people; a gun can and will do the job better.

Wait until they start mounting guns on them.  :shaking:

And integrate them with manhack/quadrotor technology :P
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: z64555 on March 06, 2012, 01:09:01 pm
There is no practical need for a robot cheetah to kill people; a gun can and will do the job better.

Wait until they start mounting guns on them.  :shaking:

And integrate them with manhack/quadrotor technology :P

A twin tilt-rotor would probably be more efficient than a quad tilt-rotor design.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: General Battuta on March 06, 2012, 01:32:39 pm
There is no practical need for a robot cheetah to kill people; a gun can and will do the job better.

Wait until they start mounting guns on them.  :shaking:

And integrate them with manhack/quadrotor technology :P

A twin tilt-rotor would probably be more efficient than a quad tilt-rotor design.

That's not what the guys building the quadrotor manhacks seem to think, and honestly from their performance I'm inclined to agree...
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: redsniper on March 06, 2012, 06:17:04 pm
Swarms of quadrotors carrying robo-cheetas! Christ!

I was thinking the other day that you could have a quadrotor swarm carry a soldier, and then he could direct the little bastards all over the place like some sort of absurd Metal Gear boss, but this takes things to a whole new level!
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: Aardwolf on March 06, 2012, 06:48:46 pm
Cheetah + mini-copter? Reminds me of the military robot from Red Planet.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: watsisname on March 06, 2012, 10:55:56 pm
AMEE <3

She'll slice you open with a ****ing highlighter.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: BengalTiger on March 08, 2012, 04:06:00 pm
I was thinking the other day that you could have a quadrotor swarm carry a soldier...

A soldier carrying a quadrotor swarm.
And the quadrotors carry grenades, with a lethal radius of just 1 meter to keep 'em small and light.

Now picture the enemy bunker having a swarm of quadrotors flying in through machine gun ports, and clearing the whole thing in a way that nobody could hide or get out.
Flamethrowers have just become obsolete.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: redsniper on March 09, 2012, 10:17:30 am
Grenades? Nah nah, just have 'em carry gas. That way they're reusable. They can just fly back and get refilled.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: BengalTiger on March 09, 2012, 10:31:27 am
That would work until the bunker is populated by people with gas masks.

Or robots...
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: FireSpawn on March 09, 2012, 11:28:16 am
Fill 'em with hornets and a speaker that belts out "THE PAIN" when they release them. As long as the target isn't David Hayter they shall bring glorious victory to our comrades!
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: Mikes on March 14, 2012, 03:33:27 pm
There is no practical need for a robot cheetah to kill people; a gun can and will do the job better.

Wait until they start mounting guns on them.  :shaking:

And integrate them with manhack/quadrotor technology :P

A twin tilt-rotor would probably be more efficient than a quad tilt-rotor design.

Yeah, but will it make bee swarm sounds?
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: Thaeris on March 14, 2012, 08:27:45 pm
I would say to the comment above...

That a twin tilt-rotor would be less efficient. You have more moving parts, and thus a more complex control system to deal with. And you still have at least four main motors, so really... simpler is better. And the four-rotor design is definately simpler.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: Mikes on March 16, 2012, 04:33:12 pm
I was thinking the other day that you could have a quadrotor swarm carry a soldier...

A soldier carrying a quadrotor swarm.
And the quadrotors carry grenades, with a lethal radius of just 1 meter to keep 'em small and light.

Now picture the enemy bunker having a swarm of quadrotors flying in through machine gun ports, and clearing the whole thing in a way that nobody could hide or get out.
Flamethrowers have just become obsolete.

Put Wirenet in front of gun ports? Millions of $$$ for research and development made useless by good old steel wire lol. Or at least you'd have to use a couple to blast the net.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: JGZinv on March 16, 2012, 05:40:01 pm
You were saying about quadrotors... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_sUeGC-8dyk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lCUGPixEnk&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Next up a performance of Jaws... for when they hunt you down.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: FireSpawn on March 16, 2012, 06:02:39 pm
Crowbar + Zeropoint Energy Manipulator = "It's SUPER effective"
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: BengalTiger on March 17, 2012, 06:26:37 pm
Shooting the crowbar using the gravity gun?
Never thought of that before...
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: FireSpawn on March 17, 2012, 06:56:58 pm
Shooting the crowbar using the gravity gun?
Never thought of that before...

That is infinitely better than what I had intended. I was thinking about just hitting it with the crowbar until it goes critical and takes out a good chunk of the surrounding area.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: z64555 on March 19, 2012, 01:59:33 am
There is no practical need for a robot cheetah to kill people; a gun can and will do the job better.

Wait until they start mounting guns on them.  :shaking:

And integrate them with manhack/quadrotor technology :P

A twin tilt-rotor would probably be more efficient than a quad tilt-rotor design.

That's not what the guys building the quadrotor manhacks seem to think, and honestly from their performance I'm inclined to agree...

Nah m8, I'm talking twin tilt-rotors like the V22 Osprey. The ones like Avatar has is probably just as bad as a quad. The point I was shooting at was that helicopters spend most of their energy staying in the air. Airplanes stay aloft by maintaining airspeed. Tilt-rotor airplanes have the best of both worlds (VTOL ability, faster/longer point-A to B travel).

Yeah, but will it make bee swarm sounds?
Well, YEAH, Lol.
Title: Cheetah Killing Machine Runs Faster Than Usain Bolt
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on September 07, 2012, 06:22:28 am
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19506130

Remind me why we are investing in ways to kill each other more efficiently again.
Title: Re: Cheetah Killing Machine Runs Faster Than Usain Bolt
Post by: headdie on September 07, 2012, 06:28:09 am
because while as individuals we hate killing in general, as a species, we love it.
Title: Re: Cheetah Killing Machine Runs Faster Than Usain Bolt
Post by: Ghostavo on September 07, 2012, 06:46:43 am
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=80173.0
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: karajorma on September 07, 2012, 08:17:01 am
Call me back when it can transform into a cassette tape. :p


Also, threads merged.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: z64555 on September 07, 2012, 10:24:38 am
What is this, some sort of thread on how to design killer robots?  :P
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 07, 2012, 11:07:07 am
What is this, some sort of thread on how to design killer robots?  :P

Insufficient Spoonzers.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: Colonol Dekker on September 07, 2012, 11:17:22 am
Call me back when it can transform into a cassette tape. :p


Call me back when they build Arcee,..........So i can get................inside her :nervous:
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: Ghostavo on September 07, 2012, 11:45:49 am
You mean ride her, right?

I didn't know you liked pink cars...   :nervous:
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: SpardaSon21 on September 07, 2012, 12:39:08 pm
What is this, some sort of thread on how to design killer robots?  :P
When the aliens invade, you'll be damn happy DARPA built that Tank/Cannon.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: Nuke on September 07, 2012, 12:58:01 pm
who says we wont invade them first?
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: StarSlayer on September 07, 2012, 02:12:19 pm
It's too bad it doesn't make the transition from a four beat(trot), three beat(canter) and finally two beat(gallop) gait like most quadrupeds naturally do.  It would make for a much more smooth transition up to speed then the awkwardness of starting at a two beat gait.  But hey there's always room for improvement.

This better exemplifies  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKZvT4PmzEk&feature=related)what I mean, though since the treadmill is dictating the speed its slightly more awkward then what the horse would do if it was on open ground.
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: JCDNWarrior on September 07, 2012, 07:33:31 pm
Seems like everything's going automated, drones, ground robots, digitalising everything... seems to put humanity itself off-side. Given that drones will just follow orders and can't be held accountable, it's any tyrannical government's most ideal way to do targetted assasinations or just plainly to intimidate or even terrorize the people you're occupying. While a civilian use for a bipedal ground robot might be interesting for old people to serve as caretakers and such, I don't have a lot of faith in that, considering NDAA and the many drone strikes in foreign countries that caused way too much collateral damage, while no one appears to get into trouble over it.

A really interesting way to use drones, both in the air and on the ground, would be to use them to scout new planets, but there doesn't appear to be a need for that just yet.

Wonder how long until we can hear the moo's of cows as bipedal robots jump large distances looking for terrorists to squash :P
Title: Re: I Hate My Government - Looking at YOU, DARPA
Post by: Nuke on September 07, 2012, 08:17:34 pm
nah, have the robots enslave other alien races hundreds of years before we show up. and when you get there your planet is just how you want it. then its just a matter of exterminating the slaves.