Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: FlamingCobra on March 17, 2012, 09:24:28 am

Title: More Xbox 360 woes
Post by: FlamingCobra on March 17, 2012, 09:24:28 am
I understand this is not a Microsoft/Xbox360 support website.

I just got an original Xbox game, but it turns out it isn't on the Xbox 360 compatibility list. Is there any way I can partition my 360's hard drive and install the original Xbox BIOS on one half?
Title: Re: More Xbox 360 woes
Post by: The E on March 17, 2012, 10:03:18 am
No. There isn't.
Title: Re: More Xbox 360 woes
Post by: General Battuta on March 17, 2012, 10:04:13 am
No. You need an Xbox.
Title: Re: More Xbox 360 woes
Post by: FlamingCobra on March 17, 2012, 01:03:08 pm
Well, then it's microsoft's fault because the last backwards compatibility upodate was in 2007 -- 5 years ago.

If I have a legal disc, could I use an Xbox emulator?
Title: Re: More Xbox 360 woes
Post by: Spoon on March 17, 2012, 01:17:00 pm
Panzer dragoon was on the compatibility list for the 360
and the first 3 levels played juuuust fine. But then it would give an error message and refused to continue on. Nice 'Quality control', MS.

Finished it on the xbox but boy, did it look ****ty.
Title: Re: More Xbox 360 woes
Post by: FlamingCobra on March 17, 2012, 01:37:27 pm
I wonder why Nintendo can build Wii on top of GameCube and every gamecube game runs perfectly, from the very first Wii Version, but Microsoft's Xbox 360 has to emulate their Xbox games.
Title: Re: More Xbox 360 woes
Post by: headdie on March 17, 2012, 01:39:03 pm
because its microsoft and unless it's the current generation or future tech they aint botherd, if that shafts their customers so be it
Title: Re: More Xbox 360 woes
Post by: FlamingCobra on March 17, 2012, 01:39:38 pm
The customer should always come first.
Title: Re: More Xbox 360 woes
Post by: headdie on March 17, 2012, 01:43:05 pm
The customer should always come first.

they havent for a long time, MS know they have their customers over a barrel and as a result can squeeze them hard for money, yes you can go PS3 but what about Halo and other XBox only titles?
Title: Re: More Xbox 360 woes
Post by: The E on March 17, 2012, 01:45:31 pm
If I have a legal disc, could I use an Xbox emulator?

I don't know if there are any for PC. I know for sure there are none for the 360.

I wonder why Nintendo can build Wii on top of GameCube and every gamecube game runs perfectly, from the very first Wii Version,

Because the Wii is essentially the same hardware as the Gamecube. The original XBox was, at its core, a simple x86 PC with a custom graphics chip, bios, and an operating system that was geared towards performance. The 360 is a fundamentally different CPU design.

Quote
but Microsoft can build Xbox 360 on top of Xbox, and 7 years since 360 hit the shelves, only 478 original Xbox games actually work.

The 360 was NOT built "on top of the original XBox". It's a completely different design. Which you would know, if you did a bit of research. And since that's the case, porting games is not straightforward. Unlike what Sony did with the original PS3 (which included parts of the PS2 for backwards compatibility), MS chose to be able to charge you again for playing your old games. And given that it takes some work to make old games work on the new hardware, its a justified expense.
Title: Re: More Xbox 360 woes
Post by: deathfun on March 17, 2012, 01:50:09 pm
Well, then it's microsoft's fault because the last backwards compatibility upodate was in 2007 -- 5 years ago.

If I have a legal disc, could I use an Xbox emulator?

http://www.emulator-zone.com/doc.php/xbox/

*cough*
Also, you're seriously asking "if you have the disc, is it legal to use the Xbox emulator"?
Title: Re: More Xbox 360 woes
Post by: FlamingCobra on March 17, 2012, 02:11:05 pm
The E, you see I edited my post?
They have to develop an "emulation profile" for each game. Like Wii and Virtual Console.
I talked to microsoft technical support after reading that. Apparently, the games that make it on the list "are based on popularity".

Well, then it's microsoft's fault because the last backwards compatibility upodate was in 2007 -- 5 years ago.

If I have a legal disc, could I use an Xbox emulator?

http://www.emulator-zone.com/doc.php/xbox/

*cough*
Also, you're seriously asking "if you have the disc, is it legal to use the Xbox emulator"?

**** no. I already know it is illegal. Thing is, if you have an actual Playstation 2 disc, you can pop that disc in your PC's disc tray and load up PCSX2, and you can play your game, just like that. I've done some research, and apparently, for Xbox emulators, you have to mod a real xbox and hook it to your pc and create some kind of .xbe file to even run the game, which sounds like a total pain in the ass. (and that's something I can't do, because if I already had an Xbox, I wouldn't be looking to emulate GunValkyrie in the first place.)

Microsoft should just turn the development of backwards compatibility over to the community.
Title: Re: More Xbox 360 woes
Post by: The E on March 17, 2012, 02:54:43 pm
FlamingMamba: For PS2 emulators, you also need a PS2 ROM file. Getting one is about as legal as getting an XBox ROM.
Title: Re: More Xbox 360 woes
Post by: Thaeris on March 17, 2012, 03:04:10 pm
That would be nice if companies simply relinquished the reins of control to the users after they decided to stop supporting or selling their products, but they don't often have this sensiblity.

If that were the case, abandonware would no longer be a grey area in the realm of internet morals, our general knowledge of programming and software would be truly vast indeed...

However, companies also want to make a profit. Just because it's old never meant it was bad. But, if you keep using the old software without procuring new software, then they run the risk of loosing potential customers. Furthermore, turning all that hard-learned knowledge over to the masses means that, now, potential competitors can capitalize on that data, jump-starting their own products which might pose a risk to the income of the company that formerly released the data. Even if you can't legally sell derivatives of the original work, that won't stop you from reverse-engineering the work, and then implementing the desired features into your own. Who would know?

Now, that gets rediculous with products that are going on 20 years old, and it's likely that some of the companies don't exist any more and that their source data is gone forever. But why does Lucas Arts and EA hold on to the rights of archaic games still? Well, granted, now they realize that they can still make a profit by selling them over the net from recent years, which I'm fine with so long as their practices are reasonable. But, meh, we could rant on ethics and rationale for hours. The point is a company seldom does anything that could be construed as not in their interest. Giving up information means that someone else can use it, and that means it might be a loss to you.
Title: Re: More Xbox 360 woes
Post by: FlamingCobra on March 17, 2012, 05:05:04 pm
FlamingMamba: For PS2 emulators, you also need a PS2 ROM file. Getting one is about as legal as getting an XBox ROM.
You mean a BIOS? I had to do that, but I never had to get a PS2 ROM file.
Title: Re: More Xbox 360 woes
Post by: Thaeris on March 17, 2012, 05:30:17 pm
Unless I'm mistaken, the BIOS is written into the Read-Only Memory, or ROM. Hence firmware.
Title: Re: More Xbox 360 woes
Post by: Nuke on March 17, 2012, 06:32:41 pm
firmware isnt as firm as you think it is. these days it seems like "rom" is mostly eeprom which means it can be reprogrammed (and oddly has 10x more write-erase cycles than flash these days). the chip might feature write protect fuses, which, once burned prevent the contents of the chip from changing. still there isnt much to prevent a skilled hacker from removing the chip, reading the rom contents to file, dissembling it, tweaking it, and then burning a new chip with their custom flavor of the bios.
Title: Re: More Xbox 360 woes
Post by: deathfun on March 17, 2012, 07:51:03 pm
Actually, all this talk of Xbox games makes me want to emulate Mechwarrior...
Title: Re: More Xbox 360 woes
Post by: Mongoose on March 17, 2012, 08:56:12 pm
I just want someone to finally finish a decent XBox emu so that I can get to play Metal Wolf Chaos. :(
Title: Re: More Xbox 360 woes
Post by: deathfun on March 17, 2012, 10:46:26 pm
I take it the ones I listed earlier aren't so great?