Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mongoose on April 16, 2012, 03:32:02 pm
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I don't know how many years I've been using this crappy basic Dell optical mouse, but it's obviously on the decline, and I don't think it appreciated falling off my desk the other day. It's now doing that lovely DOUBLE-CLICK ALL THE THINGS! deal that mice do when they've had enough, which obviously makes doing just about anything on here a real chore. I'm not looking to get the most top-of-the-line supar-awesome gaming mouse out there, but I am curious if anyone has some recommendations for a good solid mouse that can get the job done in an FPS. Batteries aside, I'd probably want to finally go with a wireless mouse, mainly because the cable's a real pain in the ass with my little corner desk. I also think I'd prefer a clicky scroll wheel, as opposed to the smooth-scrolling types, since that gives more control over stuff like weapon selection. Other than that, I'm pretty much wide-open.
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A Maus, you say? (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/Metro-maus1.jpg/300px-Metro-maus1.jpg)
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I like the Microsoft mice. Been using them for years. Both their wireless and wired ones are nice. I don't usually get the more expensive ones unless there's a feature I want on them (haven't seen one yet; they all have the clicky middle mouse, and are optical). $20-$40 depending on where you get them (check Newegg).
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I've been using a Razer Diamondback for several years now and it's like touching the hand of God.
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I've been using Logitech's G700 and it's awesome.
Also, it has wireless and wired mode.
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Spoon pointed me at Razers just a bit too late for me to get one. Instead, I got a corded Logitech M500, and I like it a lot. Certainly, it's not on the expensive side at all, but it's definately not a bad unit. As far as economy goes, it's $20 cheaper than Razer's low-end model.
I've never trusted wireless, and I'm glad I don't have anything besides internet that is. Who needs shenanigans with batteries when you can avoid shenanigans all together?
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I know people like to hate on them but I had a Razer Lachesis for about 3-4 years and it worked absolutely magnificently - excellent sensitivity and precision for both gaming and my work in Inkscape. Oddly enough, I prefer doing vectors with a mouse as opposed to my Intuos 4, go figure. I packed that up and sent it off to a friend of mine who needed a new mouse and it's still going strong and working excellently, although I freely admit that I'm completely obsessive about taking care of everything I have.
A couple of months ago I bought the SWTOR edition Razer Naga (shut up, it looks awesome) and I have zero complaints. It feels solid, it's comfortable to use, it's even more precise, and I can switch between wired and wireless depending on where I am and which computer I'm using. The wireless isn't bad as far as wireless mice go, it's got a rechargable battery, good battery life, and the wireless receiver is a charging dock, just slap it on and it recharges, no plugging it in. Also, Razer has software that lets you store your mouse settings on their servers so you can switch between computers without having to set everything up again. Doesn't take a lot of time, really, but it's still kinda nice.
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Ooh, I like the sound of a dual wired/wireless mode. It'd be nice to plug the thing in for browsing and such, but remove it for when I need better precision during a gaming session. I think what I should probably do is head over to a physical store somewhere and take a look at what they have on display, to see how these recommendations feel when I'm physically using them.
I've never trusted wireless, and I'm glad I don't have anything besides internet that is. Who needs shenanigans with batteries when you can avoid shenanigans all together?
Like I said, I have an old rickety corner desk for my machine, and because the mouse wire hangs down on a slanted edge, the cord is always pulled to the right relative to the monitor. The thing also has an annoying tendency for snagging and forcing me to pull the wire up further, which has screwed me over more than once while gaming. I never understood the purpose of a wireless keyboard, since that's something that generally doesn't move, but when it comes to slinging a mouse around at high speeds, a cord can become a real hindrance.
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i found a nice wireless ms mouse at a thrift store that still works. ive got a bunch of semi functional mice i found on the side of the road. i got a dell bluetooth mouse that works well, but is a little small. my logitech wireless laser mouse has some glitchy buttons, this seems like a common problem with logitech mice. either the keyswitches wear out or the pads that contact the keyswitches do. i could probibly save it with some minor surgery. its always a good idea to have more mice than you can use.
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Ooh, I like the sound of a dual wired/wireless mode. It'd be nice to plug the thing in for browsing and such, but remove it for when I need better precision during a gaming session. I think what I should probably do is head over to a physical store somewhere and take a look at what they have on display, to see how these recommendations feel when I'm physically using them.
I've never trusted wireless, and I'm glad I don't have anything besides internet that is. Who needs shenanigans with batteries when you can avoid shenanigans all together?
Like I said, I have an old rickety corner desk for my machine, and because the mouse wire hangs down on a slanted edge, the cord is always pulled to the right relative to the monitor. The thing also has an annoying tendency for snagging and forcing me to pull the wire up further, which has screwed me over more than once while gaming. I never understood the purpose of a wireless keyboard, since that's something that generally doesn't move, but when it comes to slinging a mouse around at high speeds, a cord can become a real hindrance.
If you have a restrictive space or a cord problem like that, I might also recommend a trackball (preferably thumb). I used one for over 10 years and still have the little guy in reserve in case something happens to my current one. They take some getting used to, but there's no movement and you might find your cord issues would be resolved. Also, I never had any complaint about the precision or response from my trackball, I just have a lot of mouse space on my desk and when I switched to the Lachesis a few years back, I liked it just as well and it didn't matter to me. But, it might to you.
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Instead, I got a corded Logitech M500, and I like it a lot. Certainly, it's not on the expensive side at all, but it's definately not a bad unit. As far as economy goes, it's $20 cheaper than Razer's low-end model.
I'd like to second the M500. Yeah it's corded, but it's still awesome for its price. The scroll wheel does the clicky thing, but you can toggle it to free spinny mode very easily if you need to.
The M510 (http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/mice/devices/wireless-mouse-m510) is wireless, and looks pretty similar to the M500.
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Heh, that looks very similar to the smaller Logitech wireless mouse I got my brother to use with his laptop. It felt pretty good the few times I used it, so I'll take a look.
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At the risk of highjacking this thread, does anyone know which trackball mice are actually worth getting and which are crap?
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A Maus, you say? (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/Metro-maus1.jpg/300px-Metro-maus1.jpg)
I take your Maus and raise you a Maus disguised as a Haus!
(http://modelingmadness.com/contests/72mv/robw72dmlmaus.jpg)
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At the risk of highjacking this thread, does anyone know which trackball mice are actually worth getting and which are crap?
tracbkalls to buy: logitech trackman series
trackballs that are ****: everything else
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A Maus, you say? (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/Metro-maus1.jpg/300px-Metro-maus1.jpg)
Oddly enough, my mind went there too upon reading the title.
I take your Maus and raise you a Maus disguised as a Haus!
(http://modelingmadness.com/contests/72mv/robw72dmlmaus.jpg)
Absolute Gold! :yes: Wouldn't THAT have been a sight in combat?
"Sir, wasn't that farm house pointed over to the left a minute ago?"
BOOM
"Sir, didn't we have a tank covering us a moment ago?"
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tracbkalls to buy: logitech trackman series
trackballs that are ****: everything else
Anyone else agree with this statement?
Also, what are the differences between their high and low end models in that series?
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personally i hate ALL trackballs.
as for a mouse, i REALLY like my microsoft intellipoint wireless, but i don't think they make them anymore. extremely comfortable and great weight. changing the batteries every few months is a small price to pay for not being tethered and feeling the cord drag all the time. and i don't play games seriously enough for the possible extra lag time to matter.
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I used to swear I'd never spend more than $25 on a mouse... then I bought a Logitech G5 and I will never, ever, go back. It's a great gaming and all purpose mouse. Never been crazy about wireless mice, and this thing has optional weights that fit into the bottom, allowing you to adjust the heft and balance of it to counter the cord.
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I used to be a bit bothered by cords, actually. Most mice tend to have very long cords, and thick ones too. Having a laptop, this is why I used to swear by the small Targus mice, as they had very thin cords which would wind up in a spring-loaded housing. And I still love those mice, but the fact is that they're just too fragile. I've had two effectively rendered useless on account of the left click dying out, and the third was on its way out when I got the M500.
However, I've still yet to be bothered by its cord, as I never removed the twist-tie wrapping the line together. In the end, having four USB ports on your computer (in very opportune places) means that the cord has still never been a bother. :p The tied bundle effectively stays perched up and out of the way on my stick's throttle.
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I'd love to be able to do that, but my case is down on the floor a good three or four feet away from my mousepad, so I can't really avoid using the whole cord.
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I'd love to be able to do that, but my case is down on the floor a good three or four feet away from my mousepad, so I can't really avoid using the whole cord.
wireless trackman wheel .. plenty of range
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I won't deny that trackballs have their merits, but I think I'm more comfortable sticking with a traditional mouse. When you've been using one type of thing for over 15 years, you kind of get stuck on it. :p
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I've had issues with Microsoft wireless mice being sketchy at best, but that may just be because I have one of their more notoriously finicky wireless sets. Personally, I like most every Logitech wireless mouse I've used, the range is good and they work consistently within that range (unlike my Microsoft set where moving the base 2-3 inches changes how well it works entirely).
In terms of wired mice, though it's a bit flatter then I personally like, a good friend of mine loves his R.A.T 3. The only issue is that it doesn't work properly in Linux without modifying the Xorg.conf file. Again, Logitech mice are generally excellent, that same friend had a Logitech G series for quite a long time, and didn't get rid of it until it started registering random clicks after having Pepsi spilt on it. I also personally happen to have a soft spot for the good, basic Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse. Basically a more well constructed, solid feeling version of an OEM mouse.
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:wtf: Never had that problem unless my batteries were about to die. Maybe you got a lemon or a bad model. Although I buy my keyboard and mouse separate (I do like MS keyboards as well) so maybe some of the sets are garbage. Who knows.
They're all (all electronic devices that can be had for reasonable $$$) made in China anyways so you will get a certain percentage that just fizzle. Return for replacement usually fixes that.
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:wtf: Never had that problem unless my batteries were about to die. Maybe you got a lemon or a bad model. Although I buy my keyboard and mouse separate (I do like MS keyboards as well) so maybe some of the sets are garbage. Who knows.
They're all (all electronic devices that can be had for reasonable $$$) made in China anyways so you will get a certain percentage that just fizzle. Return for replacement usually fixes that.
Like I said, other people have said that they've had issues with the set I have, and besides that it's a refurbished set, and the accompanying keyboard is just as finicky. I might try swapping out for a different receiver at some point, but as I said, the set I have is my primary reason for being leery of Microsoft wireless sets. Actually, from an aesthetic and feel standpoint, I quite like the one I have, it's just a pain for any detail work/gaming.
I've just picked up many Logitech wireless sets that had been used on public computers, discarded, and left outside for several days that still worked flawlessly, which is why I generally recommend them.
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i used to get a tad bit of the cut in and out on my microsoft wireless. moving the reciever from on top of the tower to the desk level with the mouse fixed that. now for whatever reason, it doesn't mind being on top of the tower again. i haven't had reception problems in a LONG time except when i try to use it on the edge of the range. not bad considering this thing is over 8 years old, and really early in the technology. the only wireless mouse i can remember seeing before this one had an antenna sticking up from the front of it.
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Hmm, I don't like Logitech cause the wireless mouse/KB set I got (LX710) doesn't have much range, and also the F1-F12 keys are changed into little flat buttons (yuck!), and the Insert Delete Home End PgUp PgDn keys are in an odd configuration (although more and more keyboard use that config) EDIT: Oh, and the dumb buttons on the sides get pressed when I pick up the keyboard from wherever I've set it to go get something.
(http://benchmarkreviews.com/images/reviews/input_devices/Logitech%20LX710/fullset.jpg)
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meh, wires throw off my speed and accuracy. trick is to find a mouse with really good battery life. and then get some batts with a high mah rating and a fast charger. figure out how long they last on a full charge, half that, and do a charge and swap cycle at that interval. charge immediately before swapping instead of after removing depleted cells from the mouse. i find that letting charged batteries sit in the charger for days at a time really ****s up their life span. having a standby mouse also helps a lot as well.
as far as keyboards go i say keep it simple. i dont like extra buttons or anything with "configuration software", after all, all you are doing is pushing buttons. i decided i didnt like wireless keyboards after my last $100 kb bit the dust. it was huge and somewhat impractical to use anywhere but on your desk. im currently using a keyboard i spend $8 for on ebay.
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Yeah, that's one reason I like the MS mice, they last months at a time on a single AA. However, the Logitech that I have does, too.
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my trouble with logitech mice is they all have the same damn design flaw. i have maybe 6 logitech mice, from the late 90s to present, ps2, usb, optical and old skool. they all have the same problem, left clickey no workie. i mean its not the keyswitch used in the mouse, its your typical high quality switch. you can take the mouse apart and press the keyswitch directly and the thing works fine. the problem is the plastic doohickey that makes contact with the keyswitch gets worn down so fast. you can usually fix this with a small blob of epoxy and a little dremel work, but its something that happens a lot with logitech's designs, even relatively modern ones. its something they should really look into.
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I see trackballs have been mentioned, so let me get a few words in for them.
First, unlike traditional mice there are several different types of trackballs. You've probably seen a trackball that has a large central ball that you use your palm or fingers to move. These are usually used for work that requires high accuracy. Second type has a smaller ball in front and is operated by index and/or middle finger, you have button placement that resembles traditional mice. Third type has ball where your thumb is located and obviously the ball is operated by your thumb.
When Kazan mentioned Logitech Trackman series, last two types belong to the Trackman family. What Kazan missed that no Trackmans are currently produced. The only Logitech trackball that is produced now is the M570, a thumb operated trackball. I just so happen to use the M570 at home and at work. I have not used traditional mice since I got my M570's. I use the M570's for everything, including games and I'm no worse off than I used to be with old mice.
All my life I had used only regular mice, at first I really couldn't use these M570's accurately or comfortably. After a few days use I adjusted and using them started to feel more natural and comfortable. After a few weeks my accuracy was only slightly less than I used to have with regular mice. I once tried to play a game using a regular mouse and I totally sucked, I've gotten used to the M570's. A lot of people won't even give trackballs a chance because it's not what they've gotten used to. I was very skeptical at first, but now I couldn't go back. Hell, I don't even want to.
I'd argue that my M570's are more accurate than any Logitech and Razer mice I used before. And best of all, I don't need to move my hand or wrist around to move the cursor. That is a significant amount of strain off from my hand and particularly wrist. Instead you use your thumb to move the ball. It's more comfortable even. The M570 is wireless but batteries can last well over a year, true story.
Like with usual Logitech mice, you can use Logitech software/drivers if you want to. But it's not necessary and I actually prefer to use without. The Logitech software uses its own cursor acceleration methods even if you set it to use Windows standard and I hate Logitech's cursor acceleration. I much prefer to use Windows' own "enhanced pointer precision" with mice and trackballs alike.
So my suggestion would to try out the M570 for two weeks. If you can't get used to it, then so be it. But if you do, you might never want to use traditional mice again. If you do get M570 or any other thumb-operated trackball, my suggestion would be to pay attention how you place your thumb on the ball. I've found that for me that best position is to keep the ball under the joint. Trying to control the ball with tip of your thumb doesn't work, at least for me.
Right, so I've only given praise for the M570, anything bad about it? Well yes there is. Remember the mice before they became optical? They had balls underside that accumulated crap over time and you had to clean them and the chassis every now and then to keep movement smooth. Same applies here too. You gotta keep the ball and its chassis clean, otherwise accumulated dirt will hamper movement of the ball.
http://www.logitech.com/en-roeu/mice-pointers/trackballs/devices/7365
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Don't they have an optical version of that mouse that has dots in the trackball and an optical tracking system to detect movement? Or maybe it was someone else that developed that, but I think I remember something like that.
EDIT: They've got it, but they haven't seen fit to do one that has the ball on the side; the trackballs I can see that are optical are only on the front (where the left/right click are). http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/trackballs
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You probably mean the M600. http://www.logitech.com/en-roeu/mice-pointers/mice/devices/9480
Edit: I see what you mean. The M570 uses laser sensor, not optical. But dirt still affects movement of the ball itself.
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I agree with everything Fury said. I've been using the M570 for about half a year now and haven't looked back. The ability to just lean back on my chair and put my feet up when I'm watching a movie or browsing while resting my mouse in my lap is awesome. The battery life is brilliant, I haven't had to change the battery yet (the box claims 18 months, and I've only been using it for about 6). I've packed the wireless receiver into the mouse and taken it with me to uni when I've had to do work there for several hours. It took me a day or two to get used to it, but once I did the benefits were obvious.
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trackballs have their place. im sure anyone who does a lot of cad would definitely have one on their desk. im a fan of the big honking trackball. as opposed to the little finger/thumb balls. a big ball has some serious inertia, so you can set the thing to be really sensitive, but it might take forever to cross your screen, but give it a good spin and it will get there in no time.
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/me wonders about dual-wielding an M570 + MS optical laser mouse in FS...
(Have the sensitivity for the mouse off the charts; then you use regular mouse for flying and trackball for aiming.)
Hmm... I wonder if PPJoy or similar could set up one mouse device as a 'joystick', sort of like the mousejoy script, and have another mouse as regular mouse...
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trackballs have their place. im sure anyone who does a lot of cad would definitely have one on their desk
More than that really. M570 has replaced traditional mice in everything I used to use a mice for.
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Logitech G400 (http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/mice/devices/8259)
I swear by it. If you loved the mx518, you'll love this.
(the only reason i didnt get a mx518 was that no retailers here carried it anymore)
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Wow, a lot more support for trackballs in here than I thought. I've never actually seen someone else use one, besides an RL best friend of mine that I've known for going on 15 years now and is something of a kindred spirit in most ways. I wouldn't mind using one again, if my laptop had a PS/2 port. I know I can get a converter, but I'm lazy. They're pretty darn great, though. And the one I have has lasted for just about forever.
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/me wonders about dual-wielding an M570 + MS optical laser mouse in FS...
(Have the sensitivity for the mouse off the charts; then you use regular mouse for flying and trackball for aiming.)
Hmm... I wonder if PPJoy or similar could set up one mouse device as a 'joystick', sort of like the mousejoy script, and have another mouse as regular mouse...
This is wasted on FS2. At the very least, wasted in comparison to something like, say, MechWarrior.
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I'm using the G500. The most comfortable mouse I ever used. Corded, but very precise and with enough buttons to map all controls in older FPSes (like Marathon) to them. The cord is long and doesn't wear out as quickly as in other mice. The shape is very good, and you can adjust the weight to your liking. 5 quickly switchable sensitivity settings were enough for all games I've played, and I'm not getting another mouse that doesn't have an easily toggled free-rotating wheel. It's great for scrolling through long documents, like FS ship tables, forum threads or TVTropes pages. :) It's a bit on the expensive side though, but you definitely get what you pay for.
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My sister complained that her mouse was starting to break down so I bought myself a new one. How does that make sense?
Anyways, I currently have a Razer Imperator. Quite nice, once I managed to download the correct driver version from the site (there are apparently two different enough variants of the Imperator and man, you don't want to install the drivers of the wrong variant).
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i originally started using trackballs because FPS... traditional mouse vs trackball handicap is almost as big as console player vs PC player handicap.
there is nothing like reflex instagibbing someone you barely saw while they're still trying to aim at you with their traditional mouse :D
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It's not wireless, but I've been using the Microsoft Sidewinder X3 (http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-gb/p/sidewinder-x3-mouse/UUC-00003) for general and gaming use for about 6 months now. Works like a champ.
Comfort is great
Construction is good
Laser instead of optical = **** yeah
Side buttons are a bit awkward but whatever, I never use them anyway.
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I've seen the Logitech thumb-ball model in stores, and I guess it's worth at least putting my hand on it, but I can see a few issues even beyond preferences. For one, I have pretty small hands, so I'd have to see where exactly my thumb rests on it. For another, I swear my right thumb already feels semi-arthritic (which is pathetic at this age), so I'm not sure how much of a workout I want to give it on a daily basis. And for a third...well, not to be gross, but my hands tend to sweat a lot. And when I'm gaming, it's more like a lot. I already have to clean crud off the side of my current mouse on a daily basis, so I shudder to think what that ball would look like in a day or two. :p
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If you can find an MX518 somewhere for a decent price, it's been an excellent mouse for me. I think they've stopped production of them though.
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If you can find an MX518 somewhere for a decent price, it's been an excellent mouse for me. I think they've stopped production of them though.
G400 has been advertised as the new mx518. my only personal beef is a bit lower apparent finish quality.
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For one, I have pretty small hands, so I'd have to see where exactly my thumb rests on it.
Well, you should be fine if the ball rests somewhere between the tip and joint. As long as you can enough room to move it to all directions you should be fine. The tip of thumb is peculiar though, because when I try to use it my thumb starts jerking and accuracy goes out of the window. I don't know if that happens to most people, but that is why I need to place the ball between the tip and joint if not right under the joint.
And for a third...well, not to be gross, but my hands tend to sweat a lot. And when I'm gaming, it's more like a lot. I already have to clean crud off the side of my current mouse on a daily basis, so I shudder to think what that ball would look like in a day or two. :p
It is mostly your palm that sweats a lot. But even so, cleaning the ball and its chassis is easy and quick. I do it at least weekly myself, sometimes every day before a gaming session. Doesn't bother me much since I can rub the ball on my shirt and finger and tap crud out of the chassis.
For another, I swear my right thumb already feels semi-arthritic (which is pathetic at this age), so I'm not sure how much of a workout I want to give it on a daily basis.
Now this could be a problem, I guess you just have to try how it feels.
By the way, if you do get the M570 at first you WILL have to keep sensitivity lower than you had with mice because you're training to use a trackball. But roughly after a week or two you can start slowly cranking sensitivity back up. But those weeks are well spent in my opinion.
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It's not wireless, but I've been using the Microsoft Sidewinder X3 (http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-gb/p/sidewinder-x3-mouse/UUC-00003) for general and gaming use for about 6 months now. Works like a champ.
except in the game prototype