Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: HAZARDLEADER on April 18, 2012, 09:46:39 pm
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Ok before you say this is not going to happen or any other thing like that, remember this is a WHAT IF nothing else. (but its possible... don't **** with my little bit of hope i am clinging too :P)
First off lets skip the rights thing with interplay and stuff like that. :bump: If there was a Freespace TV show in the making (with the crew being the hard-light community mixed in with a few hollywood guys) and the director was underfunded, and needed money to start and Finish the tv show, how much would you give? [up above the description] and no snuffleupagus is not a valid answer :P
for the record I don't know if its been brought up before, but if it is then...screw it. :doubt:
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for the love of satan do not give the rights to syfy.
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where is the snuffie option?
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where is the snuffie option?
Ran out of space (conveniently) :lol:
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The idea of a Freespace film or TV series has been discussed before. >THIS (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=39865.0)< thread often comes to mind... mainly due to the post I made outlining my vision for the pilot episode.
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Ok before you say this is not going to happen or any other thing like that, remember this is a WHAT IF nothing else. (but its possible... don't **** with my little bit of hope i am clinging too :P)
First off lets skip the rights thing with interplay and stuff like that. :bump: If there was a Freespace TV show in the making (with the crew being the hard-light community mixed in with a few hollywood guys)
That...doesn't sound like it would produce a quality piece of television...
I think there's something about FreeSpace which would be extremely difficult to capture in a TV show. The 'cog in a great machine' atmosphere that's particularly characteristic of FS2 just doesn't seem to jive well with a continuing set of named characters who have arcs and development.
The idea of a Freespace film or TV series has been discussed before. >THIS (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=39865.0)< thread often comes to mind... mainly due to the post I made outlining my vision for the pilot episode.
I remember reading that post. It might've been a decent start for a 90s Saturday-morning cartoon, but it wouldn't fly in today's TV-land. We're in the middle of a baffling golden age of really good scripted TV drama about interesting things like people, and a bunch of hoary space opera cliches aren't going to get traction.
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What's stopping us from making it a show right now? We've got the skill to model, to animate, and to voice act on this forum, so we could very well just do it amongst ourselves
Sure it won't be primetime or on Syfy... but it's got to start somewhere...
And who's to say we can't get a well put together drama to go alongside it?
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tbh FS is not character driven enough to make good TV without inventing a lot of stuff, and then because it aint :v: you will piss off part of the fan base.
Wing Commander would be better but they already did that.
Freelancer could make an interesting cartoon
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tbh FS is not character driven enough to make good TV without inventing a lot of stuff, and then because it aint :v: you will piss off part of the fan base.
Wing Commander would be better but they already did that.
Freelancer could make an interesting cartoon
Something created by the largest congregation of fans is a safe bet it won't piss off the fans
Not only that, but who's to say you can't invent stuff within the same reality? What are all these mods but gameplay for stories? Blue Planet anyone? Characters out of the wazoo.
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Thing is, there is still a lingering assumption that movies and computer games are interchangeable, which I'm not so certain is true. Most attempts at turning computer games into films tend to go about as well as attempts to turn films into computer games, there is something that just tends to not work in either direction.
I'd even go so far as to say that one of the main problems with the computer game market is the need to make them 'like interactive movies'. Whilst there is certainly similarities, where you are playing a role as though you where a character in the movie, you are also at the same time playing the role of the actor, removed from the reality of the situation and merely following a 'script'.
If anything, I'd like to see more of a wedge driven between the two art forms to help define them as separate ways of expressing art, kind of like the difference between sculpture and painting, both are creative mediums, but are better suited for different methods of expression.
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Another way to think about this whole idea would be to think of it as a campaign mod which you watch rather than play
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where is the snuffie option?
There is one now. Balance has been restored.
Also moved to GenFS.
On Topic: There is nothing a TV series or movie could accomplish in the FS universe in terms of storytelling that can not be done better in a campaign, IMHO.
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Another way to think about this whole idea would be to think of it as a campaign mod which you watch rather than play
An all-cutscene campaign could be interesting if done right.
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series or movie could accomplish in the FS universe in terms of storytelling that can not be done better in a campaign, IMHO.
I beg to differ, yes a campaign does tell it better, right now. But in 20 years we could see a really good freespace tv show.
But yes I understand you're reasoning.
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for the love of satan do not give the rights to syfy.
Just to clarify there is NO WAY IN HELL that sy-****ing-fy is getting the rights...
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I beg to differ, yes a campaign does tell it better, right now. But in 20 years we could see a really good freespace tv show.
But yes I understand you're reasoning.
I highly doubt that anyone's going to care about a niche franchise consisting of a few games in 20 years. Hell, the fact that people still care now, ten years after the last official release, is quite astonishing.
In addition, I have my doubts about any noninteractive medium (like a film or tv show) ever being able to capture what makes an interactive medium (like a game) great.
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"That...doesn't sound like it would produce a quality piece of television..."
I should of said: "this is a what if topic possibly something more..."
I think there's something about FreeSpace which would be extremely difficult to capture in a TV show. The 'cog in a great machine' atmosphere that's particularly characteristic of FS2 just doesn't seem to jive well with a continuing set of named characters who have arcs and development.
Yes I agree here to, its also to deep a story to be realeased yet. Give it a few years.
The idea of a Freespace film or TV series has been discussed before. >THIS (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=39865.0)< thread often comes to mind... mainly due to the post I made outlining my vision for the pilot episode.
I remember reading that post. It might've been a decent start for a 90s Saturday-morning cartoon, but it wouldn't fly in today's TV-land. We're in the middle of a baffling golden age of really good scripted TV drama about interesting things like people, and a bunch of hoary space opera cliches aren't going to get traction.
I will die in hell before freespace becomes a saturday morning cartoon, that would just ruin it, it doesn't have to be acted with real people, just not a ****ing saturday morning cartoon.
Thank god it did'nt, or i would have had to hire a Vasudan bounty hunter and have him :headz: do that to who ever made it a childs cartoon...
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Yes I agree here to, its also to deep a story to be realeased yet. Give it a few years.
"too deep a story"? Seriously? When Game of Thrones and others have shown that you can do quite heavy storytelling in TV?
What do you even mean by "too deep a story"? What Battuta meant was that the themes that make FS2 work are hard to translate from a game into TV/Film; At worst, you'd end up with a saturday morning cartoon equivalent that has a few nods to the universe it was spawned from. See the Somerset Strikers series for an example of what can be done wrong when trying to fit a game into the conventions of TV.
I will die in hell before freespace becomes a saturday morning cartoon, that would just ruin it, it doesn't have to be acted with real people, just not a ****ing saturday morning cartoon.
Thank god it did'nt, or i would have had to hire a Vasudan bounty hunter and have him :headz: do that to who ever made it a childs cartoon...
I think it's time for you to show your cards. What are the themes inherent in FS that can be translated into a TV series from your perspective? What can be done in the FS universe in terms of narrative that cannot be explored in other, more TV-friendly settings? Who would this series follow?
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We could do a "show" using game play footage ala Red vs. Blue.
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We could do a "show" using game play footage ala Red vs. Blue.
It'd be cute for a comedy, but nobody would watch a drama done like that.
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I think it's time for you to show your cards. What are the themes inherent in FS that can be translated into a TV series from your perspective? What can be done in the FS universe in terms of narrative that cannot be explored in other, more TV-friendly settings? Who would this series follow?
This please. I can think of approximately zero reasons why a Freespace tv series (or movie) would be a good idea. If they exist, please present them.
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How many television shows have followed the ventures of a single ship as they go through the galaxy? Quite a few (points to all Star Trek series)
Add some Stargate SG-1 ideas where it follows more specifically a squad rather than the entire ship
Set Universe to FreeSpace
Pick a timeline, or start from the very beginning and work through until Capella
The problem I see here is everyone is thinking about taking a game and putting it into a series
Perspective change. FreeSpace is no longer a game, it's a book
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How many television shows have followed the ventures of a single ship as they go through the galaxy? Quite a few (points to all Star Trek series)
Add some Stargate SG-1 ideas where it follows more specifically a squad rather than the entire ship
Set Universe to FreeSpace
Pick a timeline, or start from the very beginning and work through until Capella
The problem I see here is everyone is thinking about taking a game and putting it into a series
Perspective change. FreeSpace is no longer a game, it's a book
But my question is, what does FreeSpace have to offer as a series or a movie or a book? FreeSpace 1 tells us nothing as a traditional narrative that we haven't seen a thousand times before; it would sink under the weight of its own cliche. FreeSpace 2's atmosphere and subversion rely on the player being a nameless component buried in the events taking place. Making it something not a game would kill it.
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Riddle me this than Bat
What if Blue Planet wasn't a mod for the game, but a CGI series put on youtube?
Would that have ruined FreeSpace 2?
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blue planet is not freespace, it is a fan based entity telling a potential story
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Riddle me this than Bat
What if Blue Planet wasn't a mod for the game, but a CGI series put on youtube?
Would that have ruined FreeSpace 2?
No, but Blue Planet isn't FreeSpace 2. It adds a whole layer of narrative that by design isn't present in the Volition games. If Blue Planet were a web series, it would focus less on the mission-to-mission action and more on the character hooks, the tension in relationships, the impact of the plot on the individuals involved. Blue Planet has those hooks already, but FreeSpace doesn't. It doesn't have a plot that's particularly designed to relate to individual characters.
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Precisely my point
Blue Planet isn't FreeSpace, and nor is a fan based series
Therefore, by the logic you just stated, it'd work
What the series would essentially be doing is telling a potential story set in the same Universe
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Precisely my point
Blue Planet isn't FreeSpace, and nor is a fan based series
Therefore, by the logic you just stated, it'd work
What the series would essentially be doing is telling a potential story set in the same Universe
The universe is only interesting or worthy of a series inasmuch as said universe enables or contributes to an interesting story. People are not interested in a side story; they want the main event. What do you have in mind for a meaningful narrative in the FreeSpace universe that doesn't feel like a sideshow?
If the only way to make a FreeSpace series work is for it to not be FreeSpace, what's the point?
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Another way to put this: what would you get from a Freespace series that you couldn't get from something like BSG or Babylon 5?
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Boy, have I got an act for you! Bosch on Charlie Rose. Charlie Rose is a Shivan. The interview starts to lag, and :beamz:
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FreeSpace would work so much better as a novel. :nervous:
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FreeSpace would work so much better as a novel. :nervous:
i remember coming across a thread about some random author who did write some novels for FS a really long time ago. i don't remember where it is though and it's definitely not a classic.
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FreeSpace would work so much better as a novel. :nervous:
i remember coming across a thread about some random author who did write some novels for FS a really long time ago. i don't remember where it is though and it's definitely not a classic.
There were never any novels written for FreeSpace, just a few (pretty weird and bad) short stories.
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FreeSpace would work so much better as a novel. :nervous:
i remember coming across a thread about some random author who did write some novels for FS a really long time ago. i don't remember where it is though and it's definitely not a classic.
There were never any novels written for FreeSpace, just a few (pretty weird and bad) short stories.
Yeah. Official (weird and bad?) short stories centered at FS1-era.
EDIT: Found the link!
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=25072.msg501526#msg501526
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Precisely my point
Blue Planet isn't FreeSpace, and nor is a fan based series
Therefore, by the logic you just stated, it'd work
What the series would essentially be doing is telling a potential story set in the same Universe
The universe is only interesting or worthy of a series inasmuch as said universe enables or contributes to an interesting story. People are not interested in a side story; they want the main event. What do you have in mind for a meaningful narrative in the FreeSpace universe that doesn't feel like a sideshow?
If the only way to make a FreeSpace series work is for it to not be FreeSpace, what's the point?
The events between FS1 and FS2
The events leading up to FS1
A different take on the events in FS2
The Vasudan side of FS1
The tales of an already established character, Snipes
Hell, the Colossus or the NTF side of things
Bat, the main event is the war. Alpha 1 is simply a side story in the bigger story that you took part in. Every pilot in the GTVA has their own story to tell, and each of those stories is what the main event is comprised of
Just not all of them interesting. That's where good writing, good ideas, and solid characters come into play
Afterall, take a look at every WWII movie ever made. Do any of those feel like sidestories to you? What's the main event in any of them? The war
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Thing is, you can either create the show for the fans, or for the public, the fans don't need backstory, but will never agree with any 'between' story details, the public will be more tolerant of the storyline given, but would need to know the backstory.
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The events between FS1 and FS2
The events leading up to FS1
A different take on the events in FS2
The Vasudan side of FS1
The tales of an already established character, Snipes
Hell, the Colossus or the NTF side of things
Bat, the main event is the war. Alpha 1 is simply a side story in the bigger story that you took part in. Every pilot in the GTVA has their own story to tell, and each of those stories is what the main event is comprised of
Just not all of them interesting. That's where good writing, good ideas, and solid characters come into play
Afterall, take a look at every WWII movie ever made. Do any of those feel like sidestories to you? What's the main event in any of them? The war
You're not listing meaningful stories. You're listing things that happen.
World War II actually happened. It had fascinating historical and cultural context, and it informed the lives of a whole generation. Here you're simply listing things that happen in a video game. I don't see a plan to make them interesting or worthy of scripted drama. None of those bullet points are nearly as engrossing as 'a Madison Avenue executive struggles to keep his many lives separate and stable', or 'the royal houses of a troubled kingdom battle and scheme for the throne', or 'cops and drug dealers practice information warfare in Baltimore.'
As Sushi said, another way to put this: what would you get from a Freespace series that you couldn't get from something like BSG or Babylon 5? 'Pilots struggle to endure the attacks of an unstoppable enemy' could be BSG, or SAAB. What does it bring to the table that's new?
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I think it's time for you to show your cards. What are the themes inherent in FS that can be translated into a TV series from your perspective? What can be done in the FS universe in terms of narrative that cannot be explored in other, more TV-friendly settings? Who would this series follow?
This please. I can think of approximately zero reasons why a Freespace tv series (or movie) would be a good idea. If they exist, please present them.
Give a reason why it wouldn't?
Given how many absolutely crpatastic shows and universe get to have a TV show, I don't really see how FS can possibly do any worse.
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Honestly, making a TV show based off of existing Volition canon wouldn't work all that well. Games and television are fundamentally different forms of media and rely on fundamentally different forms of engagement to keep people entertained. Consider game/movie crossovers. 99% of the time, a game based on a movie pretty much fails - and likewise, movies based on games generally don't do so well at the box office.
The best thing that could come from this (granted, anything is possible, but I'm trying to stay in the realm of practicality here), would be a web series perhaps based on Blue Planet, following the Tevs in their fight against the UEF. That would be a spectacular pile of awesome. :D
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The events between FS1 and FS2
The events leading up to FS1
A different take on the events in FS2
The Vasudan side of FS1
The tales of an already established character, Snipes
Hell, the Colossus or the NTF side of things
Bat, the main event is the war. Alpha 1 is simply a side story in the bigger story that you took part in. Every pilot in the GTVA has their own story to tell, and each of those stories is what the main event is comprised of
Just not all of them interesting. That's where good writing, good ideas, and solid characters come into play
Afterall, take a look at every WWII movie ever made. Do any of those feel like sidestories to you? What's the main event in any of them? The war
You're not listing meaningful stories. You're listing things that happen.
World War II actually happened. It had fascinating historical and cultural context, and it informed the lives of a whole generation. Here you're simply listing things that happen in a video game. I don't see a plan to make them interesting or worthy of scripted drama. None of those bullet points are nearly as engrossing as 'a Madison Avenue executive struggles to keep his many lives separate and stable', or 'the royal houses of a troubled kingdom battle and scheme for the throne', or 'cops and drug dealers practice information warfare in Baltimore.'
As Sushi said, another way to put this: what would you get from a Freespace series that you couldn't get from something like BSG or Babylon 5? 'Pilots struggle to endure the attacks of an unstoppable enemy' could be BSG, or SAAB. What does it bring to the table that's new?
You've clearly missed the entire point
I'm making a correlation to two wars. The war against the Shivans, and something that actually happened. I'm making a correlation that Alpha 1's story is merely a small part of what happened within that war, just like a random Lieutenant's story in WWII would be.
I'm listing events in the FreeSpace timeline of which you could expand upon (as in you, personally, trying to actually make it interesting instead of just "Not going to happen and I'm not going to help any to even make it slightly possible").
As for bringing anything new to the table, how about instead of constantly fighting against the idea, actually help evolve the idea. The only way anyone could succeed in making any good fan movie involving these drama elements is if instead of asking the question to someone else, answer it yourself. How can you do it Bat? Or are you going to insist it's impossibility and fight it every which way
That's just counter productive. You can ask the questions (in fact, we all should ask the same questions), but as a fan yourself, you should help answer those very questions
If you really want me to, I'll come up with a story for each of the bigger events, and ideas which would separate them from other similar shows/movies. However, I expect you to do the same
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You've clearly missed the entire point
I think you should perhaps consider that I've thought about this quite a lot. I get your entire point; I understand precisely what you're saying, that it's possible to find compelling personal stories even in a broad, impersonal backdrop; and I think it represents a fundamental misunderstanding of what makes FreeSpace good, what makes World War 2 interesting, and what makes a good TV show.
As for bringing anything new to the table, how about instead of constantly fighting against the idea, actually help evolve the idea. The only way anyone could succeed in making any good fan movie involving these drama elements is if instead of asking the question to someone else, answer it yourself. How can you do it Bat? Or are you going to insist it's impossibility and fight it every which way
That's just counter productive. You can ask the questions (in fact, we all should ask the same questions), but as a fan yourself, you should help answer those very questions
If you really want me to, I'll come up with a story for each of the bigger events, and ideas which would separate them from other similar shows/movies. However, I expect you to do the same
The funny thing is that I've already done this for you! You can impress me by reading what's been said to you in this thread and figuring it out. I'll give you a hint: I think the same thing which makes FreeSpace an excellent video game would make it a terrible, terrible movie or novel or TV show. In fact, it is the same reason that any genuinely good video game will by necessity be a bad movie. And I've even set out a lengthy road map of the steps required to overcome this obstacle. It's available for your consideration at any time you please.
Can I figure out a way to tell an interesting scripted narrative of the novel or TV-drama form in the FreeSpace universe? Absolutely. Is it worth doing? What do you think my answer is, and why?
Good luck!
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You could take the FS universe and write the most epic TV drama for it...
but it still wouldn't be FreeSpace anymore.
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Fine, you're right Bat
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Fine, you're right Bat
No, no, I'm not right, that's not fun or productive. You're right! We should keep looking at this problem, it's an interesting discussion.
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Honestly, making a TV show based off of existing Volition canon wouldn't work all that well. Games and television are fundamentally different forms of media and rely on fundamentally different forms of engagement to keep people entertained. Consider game/movie crossovers. 99% of the time, a game based on a movie pretty much fails - and likewise, movies based on games generally don't do so well at the box office.
I disagree.
If a media crossover suck it's because the one making the crossover sucked. There's nothing inherently wrong in the concept.
If you want to make a sci-fi show, you either take a existing universe or make up a new one. FS universe has a excellent atmopshere and visual design. I don't see why a movie/series based on it would be bad. There's plenty of wiggle room.
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There could be Blue Planet, Inferno, WoD, and Transcend TV shows
(do not watch the latter at night :shaking:)
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I once thought to myself how cool it would be to see a good Star Wars TV show, something like a cross between The Outer Limits and the Tales From [X] Star Wars books. With each episode (or two or three) focusing on new characters in a new situation.
I imagine that the theoretical FreeSpace show could either do something like that - a fighter pilot in a battle or two one week, some refugees another week, an officer in a personal conflict another week, etc. - or something closer to Battlestar Galactica, where it follows the crew of a destroyer, and its pilots as they fight battles, deal with the war, go on other assignments, and all that stuff.
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Isn't there a clone wars animated tv show?
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Scourge of Ages and Trashman have it right. I think that Freespace, as a game, would translate poorly to a non interactive medium like TV or film. However, as a universe, Freespace gives us something that's no worse than a lot of other Sci-Fi universes, and in some ways, much better. FS as a universe is built around warfare, which always has great dramatic potential, has, as Trashman pointed out, a great visual palette, and presents a lot of potential story threads that could be picked up (or ignored, as required) by screenwriters.
Personally, (and as unrealistic as I know this is), assuming it could be made and written to a high standard, I'd love to see a series set in the last year or so of the TV-War. The gritty military setting of S:AAB or BSG combined with the story arc of Babylon 5 (particulary if the Shivans could be slowly revealed (ala the Shadows) through GTI machinations) culminating in a chaotic, DS9-esque final season or two of the Shivan war. Little mini-arcs could link in with the events of the game (McCarthy might make an appearance, for example, or the buildup for Operation Thresher, or the development of the Avenger/Tsunami), or the game events could be presented as some kind of off screen happenings that don't involve whoever the main cast turn out to be.
There could be some big advantages to the FS universe as well. The Vasudans could, potentially, be a fascinating main enemy - one thing that was really missing, I felt, in Star Trek and B5 and that, was the investigation of a truly alien psyche - mainly because they had too many races to focus on just one for any length of time. That could be something legitimately new. Not to mention the fact that all of the shows I've mentioned so far start in peacetime, and the war develops around them. This would throw the viewer right into the middle of a conflict that's already old. People start out war weary and jaded, even the new recruits (who'd probably start to resemble the last few years worth of Vietnam draftees). Plus, the fact that there's only one real big enemy (at the start) would probably force a bit of creativity in looking for antagonists within the Human ranks. The military-industrial complex, for example, might be prolongung the war somehow, the GTI might be torturing Vasudans - is that morally right? After all, they're not human - do they have human rights?
Actually, the more I think about, the more I kind of keep coming back to the same idea. Someone mentioned earlier that there was nothing in the FS universe that couldn't be done just as well in B5, BSG etc. etc. Maybe they're right. But I can't help thinking that maybe, just maybe (and I stress, I know that this is never going to happen), there might be a market in 2012 for a TV show that puts the viewer into the middle of a war that's been going on over a decade, is against an enemy that most of the soldiers only know as desert dwelling "treacherous and superstitious" boogeymen before they leave (who, of course, have religious fanatics more than willing to use suicidal practices against their enemies) but realize that they're much more complex once they actually get out there), and has morally ambiguous Intelligence forces and practices always waiting in the wings.
Sci fi as a heavy handed metaphor for real events might never reach the heights of Star Trek TOS, but as settings go, I can't think of too many more relevant military situations to restart the trend in. :)
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Now there's an argument for a Freespace TV show that actually gets me somewhat interested. :yes:
Main problems I see:
- The Vasudans in FS aren't terribly alien in their psyche: they're very much on the same level as Klingons or Narn in terms of different-ness. But I'm sure a TV series could make them plenty more alien in order to focus on that aspect. :)
- Since this is in the Freespace setting at a known point in the universe's history, the whole thing is, to a large extent, spoilered from the get-go. :)
I do think that some aspects of the Freespace universe, such as the ones you described, would make good inspiration for an original universe & series, which is how I'd much rather see the whole thing approached. Don't worry about Freespace as a universe, but happily steal the themes that you find most interesting and expand on them (stealing from other sources too, of course).
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My take:
Set it in the freespace universe, following the 42nd Vigilantes based outta the GTD Scopuli during the NTF rebellion. You get elements like enemy aces and stuff as seen throughout the first two world wars, and then the main guy gets his own wing (Rapier Wing!) and kicks all sorts of ass.
If not, look at Ace Combat's presentation. Something like that aboard a ship would be awesome.
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Like many said here, I think even if we did turn the game into a TV show or film, we would have to scrap out the impersonality of the general FreeSpace feel, much like how Blue Planet did.
If we do indeed manage to get it to that point, the only fan appeal that will occur is the unchangeable elements, such as the back story and characters (e.g. the GTVA, their ships, the Vasudans, the Shivans, what else is there to please the fans)?
Other than that, we will have to develop FreeSpace TV series/movie using our own innovative, creative ideas of a different take on the game's Universe. Perhaps base it on a particular character, like on BP? Or continue from the Capella incident and finish on a breathless conclusion on the origins on the Shivans?
It's similar to creating a Jazz take on a Bach composition. The theme (chord progression) would still have to be there, but the development, style, and the general feel would be somehow lost.
Think it out...
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Do it like Battles 360. Where instead of a drama, you create a documentary series about 1 ship and her battles, complete with interviews from select members of the crew. Say...Bastion. During each episode you give back story, strategic positioning, etc. I got the idea watching Dogfights the other night, about how fun it would be to do something like that here....but I can't model. The only thing different from Star Trek or B5 would be perspective, and non character driven. Anyway....that's how I see it.
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I'd watch that.
Actually, it'd probably be way easier to do than a story-driven show. You'd only need like 4 voices for the narrrator and whoever's being interviewed, and wouldn't even really need to show the characters.
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I agree with Black Wolf, the FS universe (or the BP story ; even if it's an independant mod, and that officially it isn't a sequel to the 2 Wars..) has a high potential.
I think that before starting creating a TV show, a list of possible features should be written, where everyone would post his ideas about which characters to create, their personality, some love story perhaps (a Vasudan with a Terran ? :P)..
However the biggest problem would be the dogfights and the missions I think. It would be very difficult to bring properly the same feelings we have in missions to a TV show. The TV show would focus more on action, whereas the game is a bit different.
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WiH could make an amazing miniseries.
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FSO has a lot of mods which mostly have their own continuity. I would call any other Freespace Fanfiction (which is basically what FS mods (excluding TCs) are, though I admit the term doesn't have as good connotations) the same sort of thing. Be it a novel, short story, live action TV show, movie, mod, machinima, animated series, comic book, play, poem, radio play, documentary or whatever it is still a work of fanfiction that should be viewed in the same way any mod is. Presently almost every piece of Freespace fiction is a mod (not a bad thing), but I am fully okay with someone going and making, for example, a TV show provided it is not-for-profit and not called "Freespace: The Movie" (I say this in a similar vein to the convention of not calling a mod "Freespace 3" (parody exemption)).
Personally, I would be delighted to see sub-divisions of this board which don't just relate to mods, but to, say, a novel or a webcomic.
Now for a company to actually go ahead, get the intellectual property and make a tv show? That I'm not so okay with (can't a games company get it instead? Preferably one who can give it to Volition?) and believe to be impossible anyhow.
In short. If you (general form of "you"; not specific) want to make a non-canon Freespace TV show, go ahead. Of course the problem lies in not being able to actually air it... but youtube?
All IMHO of course.
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Sorry if this is difficult to follow, it keeps evolving in my head as I type.
I know I have been an opponent of a FS film/show, but, how "Freespacy" would a show be if it was done from a permanent one character perspective, just following 1 character with little or no deviation from that character, if the viewer knows something it is because the character they are watching through was either there, saw it, or was told it.
If the character components of the story were kept on ship/base with limited interaction with other pilots you could maintain the feel of freespace in mission sequences while still telling character stories. The limited pilot interactions could be explained at first because the veterans keep their distance from the fresh meat until they prove that they might actually live long enough to be worth getting to know, then as the story progresses the pilot who’s perspective we are looking from becomes a veteran. There are not many veterans to know which keeps the reserved pilot list small and they all keep their distance from the newbies and so on.
In FS1 i think it would look like
Pilot joins the GTD Galatea and gets to know a fighter technician, a bar tender, a couple of rookies and Lt. Harbison who is a veteran but still making the transition to cautious about the newbies veteran.
Story goes on, pilot shows their staying power and starts to be excepted into the ever changing but small community of veterans and aces on board, so still small community of significant pilots in the show leaving 80 - 90 red shirts on board to die in pitched battle making the player look even more heroic.
Galatea bites it to the Lucifer, viewer character and survivors transfer to the Bastion, thus starting the newbie veteran cycle again and so on.
Series one finishes with the Lucifer going down
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Sorry if this is difficult to follow, it keeps evolving in my head as I type.
I know I have been an opponent of a FS film/show, but, how "Freespacy" would a show be if it was done from a permanent one character perspective, just following 1 character with little or no deviation from that character, if the viewer knows something it is because the character they are watching through was either there, saw it, or was told it.
If the character components of the story were kept on ship/base with limited interaction with other pilots you could maintain the feel of freespace in mission sequences while still telling character stories. The limited pilot interactions could be explained at first because the veterans keep their distance from the fresh meat until they prove that they might actually live long enough to be worth getting to know, then as the story progresses the pilot who’s perspective we are looking from becomes a veteran. There are not many veterans to know which keeps the reserved pilot list small and they all keep their distance from the newbies and so on.
In FS1 i think it would look like
Pilot joins the GTD Galatea and gets to know a fighter technician, a bar tender, a couple of rookies and Lt. Harbison who is a veteran but still making the transition to cautious about the newbies veteran.
Story goes on, pilot shows their staying power and starts to be excepted into the ever changing but small community of veterans and aces on board, so still small community of significant pilots in the show leaving 80 - 90 red shirts on board to die in pitched battle making the player look even more heroic.
Galatea bites it to the Lucifer, viewer character and survivors transfer to the Bastion, thus starting the newbie veteran cycle again and so on.
Series one finishes with the Lucifer going down
That, or it can be a bit more Game of Thrones-esque where you jump from characters to show their perspective
What this show would need is it's own new visual and thematic style to completely be different from anything else. Human ships would have to be redesigned to look less generic and illustrate the advancement of humans, culturally and technologically. Dull hull colors wouldn't cut it, they need to have some ornate elements. Less utilitarian and a lot more stylized.
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I disagree - FreeSpace would shine the same way BSG did, by really playing up the grit and naturalism, going full utilitarian.
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Actually if you were to do it, gritty would be the way to go. The characters would start out kind of fun, arrogant. We are at war with the Vasudans, an equal oponent. In waltz the Shivans...and we can't compete. The first statement on humanity that we can explore is racism. Main characters on both sides. Fall of Vasuda Prime would leave some things that we can do with both races. The Vasudans...this is obvious. Underlying is simple, if this can happen to our equals in military might, it can happen to us. Things get real dark real quick.
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Don't change the ships, they are part of what makes Freespace Freespace
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I think one thing Battuta touched on that I have to disagree with is the whole thing about innovation. Innovation has been prized (perhaps too much) by Western artistic thought in the last 200 years or so, but that's only a rather small part of what makes an artistic work good. A well-executed iteration will beat a mediocre innovation. Consider the "Old Masters" of European painting--these artists, from around 1350 to 1700, produced some of the most beautiful and well-regarded artworks in human history. They also were openly and unapologetically derivative--hundreds of pietas, madonnas, and other stereotyped forms, in roughly the same styles, year after year with innovation happening very slowly over the course of generations. There were fewer original ideas in those 350 years than from 1850 to 1900 alone, and nobody cared.
That said, creating a successful FreeSpace series would require you to end up with a rather different thing than what you started with, due to the nature of the two media (and a serialized TV show is itself an altogether different beast from film--blow up a TV episode to feature length and the result is an abomination like Star Trek: Generations). I would say the Terran-Vasudan war would be an easier setting to work with than the two Shivan wars--the Shivans are more like a force of nature than an enemy military, which severely limits their storytelling potential as antagonists. Vasudans, on the other hand, are people humans can understand, and a lot of "meanwhile on the PVD Whatever" stories and meaningful interactions with humans are possible.
The Talania system is a huge blank in the FreeSpace continuity. We know that it existed, there was a decisive battle there, and the system is no longer accessible. That would be my obvious pick for a setting, due to the massive unexplored potential (also, because of the stalemate nature and extreme length of the war, it is likely that decisive engagements were very rare so a broad overview of the whole war would likely be rather dull).
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Freespace is not enoght to make a TV Series, its missing a lot of things, so it need to invent a lot. Mass Effect is a good game for TV Series for example, but they are making a movie out of it :(
FS maybe good for an action movie, maybe even a trilogy.
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Best way to fix that (in my opinion) call in the :v: guys ;)
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Sorry for replying do a topic that has not been posted on in a while, but I see the dilemma here, ShivanSpS is right, its missing A-LOT of things. Plus a show that does nothing but fighter battles will not do so well. So I was thinking that maybe a battle episode every 2 episodes, or 15 minutes of battle every episode, and the rest being crew interaction???
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*sigh*
Let me just remind you that posting in an old topic is a big nono, ESPECIALLY when you add nothing of substance to the discussion. Indicating your agreement and rehashing earlier posts is very definitely without substance.
Also, why in the **** would you necro a thread where you yourself had the last post, when you have nothing new to say?
Actually, I apologize. You did have something new to say.
Unfortunately, your comment is rubbish. It shows that you know nothing of proper TV writing, or season plotting, and that you haven't actually bothered to read any of the replies in this thread safe for the last few. Please try again, this time taking care to address these points: I think it's time for you to show your cards. What are the themes inherent in FS that can be translated into a TV series from your perspective? What can be done in the FS universe in terms of narrative that cannot be explored in other, more TV-friendly settings? Who would this series follow?
In other words, please show us that you have put more thought into this topic than "FS is cool, and TV is cool, so FS on TV must be cool too".
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What are the themes inherent in FS that can be translated into a TV series from your perspective?
A very dark and epic setting. (like bsg) The Terrans having to deal with an old enemy to survive the attack of another, also having to put aside things like extreme racism and hatred to work together.
Having to deal with an enemy that is not driven by the lust for our riches, territory of resources, but by punishment for the crimes humanity have committed.
What can be done in the FS universe in terms of narrative that cannot be explored in other, more TV-friendly settings?
By narrative do you mean tv show? Never mind, movies may show hours of content at a time, but in my opinion a TV show tells it better due to being able to make fifty or more, forty minute episodes for three or so seasons. In other words it fits better in a tv show because your not having to cram the story that spans out forty or so missions (or episodes) into a one and a half hour movie. (Unless its silent threat, thats probably possible to put into a movie)
Who would this series follow?
Alpha one (With a name!) he would switch secondary characters say when he switches capital ships, or switches fighter squads. But following main characters is so overused, think creatively... We could tell the story in a Battle 360 style show. (Mentioned earlier by ShadowWolf_IH) But that might cause it to lose some of its epicness... How cool (or how stupid) would it be to change the main character every season? Then you get an interesting take from say a few pilots, maybe even an admiral or command itself? It could be any one of those, but I always imagined it as following a Alpha 1 as a main character.
All in all it would be a hard show to produce, but its possible. I don't know if it would suck or not; there really is no way of knowing until its actually done, if its ever done.
I hope this answers your questions, and I hope its not..."rubbish" :doubt:
Anyway my opinion is not relevant, its everyone else's that counts. :nod:
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So you basically misunderstood every single one of those questions. Good job.
To clarify: "A dark setting" is not a theme. BSG was about the question "Do we deserve to survive?", DS9 was about "What happens when utopia is threatened?". What is FreeSpace about? Man vs Environment, probably. Which is a theme that does not need FS in order to be explored.
The question about the narrative was intended to ask you which kind of story a TV show set in the FS universe was uniquely qualified to tell. For example, BSG could explore how governments are formed, how government can work under very extreme circumstances, and how normal people deal with extreme circumstances and the day-to-day fear of getting extinct.
"Who would this series follow" was not intended to ask you who the main character would be. It was intended to get you to think about the general formula of the show. Your answer indicates a deep misunderstanding of how a good TV narrative is constructed; while you can definitely tell a story using a plethora of wildly different viewpoints (Game of Thrones does that rather well), it is generally a bad idea to not have a continuity there.
You are also thinking already about how multiple seasons could work. That's just stupid. You haven't even shown that you have good ideas how to do a miniseries, let alone a single season, and you already want to do several?
In closing, let me ask you something. Have you, or have you not, thought about this longer than necessary to come up with the "TV is cool, FS is cool, TV + FS = cool" thing? Have you read the thread, and the various arguments presented herein?
If you want this thing so badly, here's a task for you. Write a treatment for this show. A document detailing your plans on how to construct a serialized TV show based in the FS universe. Write a little plot outline, making sure to identify the plotpoints and dilemmas the characters face that the FS universe is uniquely suited to portrait.
And then, once you've done that, come up with an argument why this has to be a TV series, as opposed to a custom campaign.
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Let's turn game X into a movie/show, because the game was uh "cool", ... yeah that always worked so well in the past.
Wing Commander wants to have a word with you ;)
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@ The E
Damn it, I always took things on a little to literally. :banghead:
As for the word noob which I ****ing am, Im the only one who can change that, and I am determined to fix that.
And about the story writing, I barely have fundamental understanding of it, and I was not planning an episode or a few seasons, I was just posting some ideas of how it could be.
So the only way to get better at story writing, is to go to a writers class and or make and release a few campaigns and see how the story flies with people. Which I am going to do both.
:nervous:
@ Mikes
Yes I have given Freespace more thought, than that "TV is cool, FS is cool, TV+FS=cool statement, and I know for a fact that it does not work that way, and theres a lot more to it.
P.s. That wing commander movie suuuuuucked.
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I don't think anyone here actually expects our ideas to become an actual TV show, so what's the harm in simply making up ideas for fun even if they wouldn't pass the muster for a real TV show?
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I think I would be nice to first do some promotion to Freespace, i have seen only one review of the vanilla version in Youtube, I would be nice to have more reviews of this, featuring a comparison of the vainilla and SCP, I know one nice youtube channel CGR (Classic Game Room), its only and idea, though
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I would say Freespace's theme is being trapped in circumstances you can't control.