Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Blue Planet => Topic started by: Kolgena on April 26, 2012, 03:38:33 am
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So delenda este was proving impossibly hard for me for some reason, even at very easy. I thought I was just full of suck from not having played freespace in a while, but then I found out it was because I couldn't give commands to my wingmen, and was counting on them doing things that they weren't.
Here's the problem: They will always guard the indus regardless of any C38 or C218 commands I give them. I'm also pretty sure that C31 etc are not working either. The only way I can get them to change their objective is by assigning commands on a per-fighter basis. Naturally, this is not feasible in a firefight.
Is this (for some reason) intentional behavior in this mission, or is something actually broken here?
(also, as a total aside is it just me, or do darts never ever hit anything, sort of like hornets?)
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Actually they do accept orders, but only if you tell each fighter individually to do something (C-1-X-X).
I assume this is caused by the fact that their default orders or the orders they receive via SEXP have a very high priority.
(And darts do manage to hit stuff from time to time)
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Even hornets can hit things, if you know how to use them properly
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None of this sounds like intended behavior, nor how the mission played on 3.6.12.
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Even hornets can hit things, if you know how to use them properly
Where "things"="cruisers", yes.
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Oh yeah I did notice this, I would order Beta to go attack bombers or something and they would read "Attack Cancer" or whatever, but then they'd keep circling the Indus.
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Even hornets can hit things, if you know how to use them properly
Where "things"="cruisers", yes.
The Hornet was an excellent anti-Nephilim weapon back in FS1. Much better than the Interceptor in that regard.
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None of this sounds like intended behavior, nor how the mission played on 3.6.12.
Well, I'm not quite sure when I first noticed wingmen only took high priority orders, but it feels like it was a long time ago. I remember thinking this was probably intentional to prevent the player to attempt a banzai charge at the Carthage's assault wings and force close range defence of the frigates. I might have noticed it right after the re-release, but I really can't guaranty that.
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Even hornets can hit things, if you know how to use them properly
Where "things"="cruisers", yes.
The Hornet was an excellent anti-Nephilim weapon back in FS1. Much better than the Interceptor in that regard.
It is indeed possible to use the Hornet as an AA weapon, even in FS2 (in FS1, it was really good as a dogfight weapon). It does require some skill, and isn't exactly a common tactic, but it can be done. The trick is to launch them up close and from the rear aspect, or right into the target's face (if you dare). It's a decent anti-bomber weapon when used that way.
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if i'm in an aspect where hornets are useful, i'm just going to use my guns anyway and not bother. i wonder if they really WERE better in retail FS1, or they just seemed like it because the interceptor (which for some reason i almost never used in retail fs1) was the only other worthwhile missile.
anyway, as for wingmates not following orders even though it's in their target box, i've noticed this behavior all the way back to retail. i always assumed it was something done in FRED that overrides player orders when the mission really wants the wingmates to be doing something, and possibly a bug that it seems to "stick."
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Interceptor was way too big for its role and damage potential, I would always load hornets or MX-50 instead
Hornets worked well in FS1 if you timed your shots against heavier fighters and helped soften up big targets on approach like bombers and Cains, they were also useful subsystem sniping on capships because you didnt have to fly right at a heavily defended target, you could evade a little, achieve lock and release, very useful taking out weapon subsystems. With FS2 the homing didn't work very well and most hornets didn't get close to their target, relegating them to Wild Weasel and bomber softening work. The tornado I found didn't deliver very well on damager considering 6 missiles were fired, kind of went the way of the flail/Morningstar.
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Tornado fires eight missiles, you just get less of them per bank.
I think they also do more damage than Hornets.
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Tornadoes are better-tracking and deal more damage to shields than Hornets, but pack less hull damage per cargo space, so for anti-cruiser work, you'll want Hornets.
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I think they also do more damage than Hornets.
The tables show the same numbers for both: 25 base with modifiers of 2.0, 1.0, and 0.3.
Either way the Tornado does cause more damage since firing them is a guarenteed hit compared to Hornets.
Though as just mentioned, Hornets will do better against Cruisers since they carry more and also do full damage without lock.
And of course, they'll all hit a Cruiser.
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if i'm in an aspect where hornets are useful, i'm just going to use my guns anyway and not bother. i wonder if they really WERE better in retail FS1, or they just seemed like it because the interceptor (which for some reason i almost never used in retail fs1) was the only other worthwhile missile.
While you'll be using your guns in such situation, big bombers don't go down quickly. Breaking the shield with guns and shoving a salvo of Hornets down the enemy bomber's tailpipe is a good way of quickly getting rid of it.
Missiles in FS1 were less useful in general, but Hornet didn't change much between games. That caused it to appear more effective, not to mention ships in FS1 were somewhat slower and had problems evading a salvo of 4 Hornets.
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I would very much like it if someone could diff some Delenda Est runs on 3.6.14 RC5 and 3.6.12.
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The latest build of War in Heaven isn't fully compatible with 3.6.12 >.>. Would it still help to test it? (It runs the debug window thing upon startup, but you can click past it)
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The latest build of War in Heaven isn't fully compatible with 3.6.12 >.>. Would it still help to test it? (It runs the debug window thing upon startup, but you can click past it)
Oh, ****, ugh. Does anyone have an older install they can use with 3.6.12?
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I did until I updated about a month and a half ago.
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It's running, so I still should be able to playtest, though that won't guarantee that it'll work the way the original did. Though that DOES bring to mind another error. When I start up Delenda Est in 3.6.14 RC5, I get a debug box, which I'll post later.
Incidentally, there weren't any changes made to AI tables or the mission or something like that between the versions of WiH, were there? Because it seems like THAT could be your problem.
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Those warnings were likely due to the changes to the table option names in the submodel animation fields.
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I'm getting the same behaviour in 3612 - my guys only do what I tell them if I select every ship individually, and they ignore any command sent to their wing or to all fighters. I have the original modpack, with the 1.1 patch that fixed the checkpoint in Delenda Est.
By the way, my gunners in TBI have also gone rogue, and fire at whatever they want instead of the targets I choose for them. I guess that's a completely different thing, though.
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In other news, I was playing Blade Itself, and it's hilariously broken.
The Arcadia station will start revolving around a point in a wide circle at absurd speeds at some point in the mission, though I don't know what causes this. It seems to be about the point before the altan orde dies.
Also, is it actually possible to keep the altan orde alive? It doesn't seem to shoot to defend itself. Either that, or it's not moving to bring its bigger guns to bear.
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I think that when Simak station starts revolving, it causes collision damage to the Altan Orde. It's at the point where I had to make AO invulnerable to make it survive, even on Very Easy.
It's a shame, because TBI is one of the best missions in BP.
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That bug was there from the very beginning (and even before WiH was made). Sometimes things can get stuck in rotating subsystems.
But as far as I know it happens only rarely (I've only ever seen that bug in videos of other people, but never experienced it myself).
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**** me. everything is breaking
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**** me.
if wih2 is good enough