Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Blue Planet => Topic started by: SaltyWaffles on May 21, 2012, 07:25:55 pm
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From what I hear, the Hyperion class cruiser is even worse than FS2-era cruisers (the Aeolus, I think?), despite being a TEI design. This seems rather bizarre to me; wouldn't that make the Hyperion less suited to the TEI than existing cruisers?
According to its wiki page and the veteran comments, its not good at an anti-fighter role, and it's not good in an anti-ship role. Several of the reasons for that are just plain design flaws, not flaws of technology/cost/tradeoffs (such as its guns lacking a decent field of fire, or many of them not firing on targets at semi-low elevations).
Are those veteran comments mistaken, or something?
If not, then why not give it a slight buff to better fit its role and description? Maybe better placement (or quality) of its AA turrets?
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Guess you haven't fought a Hyperion yet. :) It's a good ship, with better anti-cap firepower than Aeolus (and I doubt it could be made much higher, SBlue is already a big improvement over old beams). It's also fairly though. Aeolus is a dedicated AA platform, Hyperion is more multirole.
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Slap one down in FRED with a decent AI class and see how it holds up.
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Or just charge ahead in The Plunder
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If memory serves it's also one of the oldest TEI ships, dating to a time when the GTVA still hadn't worked out all the kinks in the new reactor/beam systems. Of course it's kind of shoddy, it's supposed to be.
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It's really not according to any information in the game. Cruisers have a dwindling tactical space, but the Hyperion is a damn good one.
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It's a design that is probably of disputed worth within the GTVA, but we've been able to showcase its abilities a couple times. It makes for a good area denial platform and close escort as long as the battlespace isn't too hot. And the Duke shows one of its less apparent benefits - for a warship, it has sterling subspace maneuverability, though part of that was doubtless the condition of the crew.
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It feels rather weak to me as well, having seen its performance in AOA. If I recall a mostly undamaged Hyperion in one mission was attacked by a couple squads of shivan bombers and had totally failed to defend itself, the fighters were doing all of the work. It also more or less totally failed to effectively engage the shivan cruisers in the area.
Which kinda contrasts with the GTVA ships tending to rape the hell out of the shivans.
e: by the way it was in that mission where you have to run all of those ships through a knossos while the shivans send fighters and cruisers into the area to cause trouble. im pretty sure there was a hyperion other than the heavily damaged duke.
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AoA is great for showing off how awesome TEI strike corvettes and destroyers are. The cruisers don't get any real limelight, except for the Duke being the Boss of subspace, and in Forced Entry, which is them thrust into a situation they are very not ideal in: centerpiece. Cruisers in BP are support. They don't fare well being the center of attention.
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All of the turrets on the StratComm terran fleet could stand to have their fovs increased by 20-30 degrees (by default they're 90, which is teh suk). I'm not sure if anyone every did this for BP (can't check right now), but it would go a long way in helping the Hyp.
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Cruisers are pretty much a dying breed in BP tactical situations. Corvettes are taking their place as all-around combat warships and heavy escort duties, and gunboats (Cretheus/Custos) in the light escort/fighter strike support/patrol role. Cruiser-sized warships just can't have the hitting power and survivability in capital ship-heavy situation, and can't have the agility and low cost of gunboats, at least with technologies available to the UEF and GTVA. The Lilith, on the other hand, is pretty much the perfect counter-example of this.
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It's really not according to any information in the game. Cruisers have a dwindling tactical space, but the Hyperion is a damn good one.
Weird. I could have sworn that it was mentioned somewhere or other.
In any case, the Hyperion is still a good patrol ship/raider. I'm sure it makes a mess of the Cains and Rakshasas you see guarding Shivan supply depots.
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It's really not according to any information in the game. Cruisers have a dwindling tactical space, but the Hyperion is a damn good one.
Weird. I could have sworn that it was mentioned somewhere or other.
In any case, the Hyperion is still a good patrol ship/raider. I'm sure it makes a mess of the Cains and Rakshasas you see guarding Shivan supply depots.
Maybe it's in one of the beam tech entries?
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Cains ? Most likely. Rakies ? No way. Those things have 3 SReds, each of them being more than half more poserful (in sustained damage) than a SBlue. A Rakie kills a Hyperion with still more than half its HP left.
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With two Hyperions though, or if it has escort, things look a lot different. And you shouldn't send a lone Hyperion onto a raid anyway.
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you shouldn't send a lone cruiser onto a raid anyway.
Fixed for general FS consistency
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With sufficient escort, you could kill a Sathanas with an Elysium. Your point ?
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Cains ? Most likely. Rakies ? No way. Those things have 3 SReds, each of them being more than half more poserful (in sustained damage) than a SBlue. A Rakie kills a Hyperion with still more than half its HP left.
Two fighters kill the engines, Hyperion jumps in and here we go.
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Two fighters kill the engines. Hyperion jumps in, and two Shivan fighters destroy its beam dishes.
Where is your god now.
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With sufficient escort, you could kill a Sathanas with an Elysium. Your point ?
isnt the Elysium armed with a subach? if so then no you cant.
Also the general point is cruisers in general become a lot more effective with a small number of fighters and where appropriate bombers
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isnt the Elysium armed with a subach? if so then no you cant.
Don't underestimate the power of debris.
EDIT: In any case, my argument is : finding one or several situations in which a ship performs well doesn't mean the concept doesn't suck. You need ships that are efficient in as a wide range of potentially uncontrolled combat situations as possible. In the BP tactical environment, cruisers are clearly more often than not at a disadvantage, and can't compete with both corvettes and gunboats in their intended tactical niche.
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isnt the Elysium armed with a subach? if so then no you cant.
Don't underestimate the power of debris.
KAMMAKAZEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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With sufficient escort, you could kill a Sathanas with an Elysium. Your point ?
isnt the Elysium armed with a subach? if so then no you cant.
What you see in the tables isn't really indicative of the Elysium's actual capabilities. You should put more weight on what you see in the missions, where it has heavy armor 5, special hits to the tune of half a million, BALLS OF STEELE AI, and a subys-guardian-thresholded turret armed with dual WTFBlues.
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With sufficient escort, you could kill a Sathanas with an Elysium. Your point ?
isnt the Elysium armed with a subach? if so then no you cant.
What you see in the tables isn't really indicative of the Elysium's actual capabilities. You should put more weight on what you see in the missions, where it has heavy armor 5, special hits to the tune of half a million, BALLS OF STEELE AI, and a subys-guardian-thresholded turret armed with dual WTFBlues.
do you want to fred for bp
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Two fighters kill the engines. Hyperion jumps in, and two Shivan fighters destroy its beam dishes.
Where is your god now.
Topside, manning the pulse turrets. :) Those things pack a wallop, don't underestimate them.
Hyperion backed by a couple of interceptors is a formidable force, supplying the fighters with anti-cap firepower, while the fighters de-fang enemy caps and kill fighters. Also, the Hyperion is very agile in subspace, so it can jump behind the enemy, where most Shivan caps are helpless. The Moloch is, for example, vulnerable from above, a Hyperion that would get in there would have a chance to slice the Moloch apart, especially if supported by fighters (by the time a Moloch rolls to bring it's two puny cannons to bear, they'd be long since disarmed). It's been designed with fighting Shivans in mind. High maneuverability, forward focused firepower and a very good jumpdrive all make it quite well suited for that. Of course, on defensive, it doesn't fare too well, and UEF gunships are very dangerous to it, but it's not been designed for defense (that's the Aeolus' role).
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Cruisers are more for anti-gunboat patrol, escort, and surgical strikes IIRC
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That's what I just said. Aeolus is good for the first two, more defensive roles (though a well flown gunboat is still a bane of anything smaller than a destroyer), while the Hyperion was made for swift surgical strikes.
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That's what I just said. Aeolus is good for the first two, more defensive roles (though a well flown gunboat is still a bane of anything smaller than a destroyer), while the Hyperion was made for swift surgical strikes.
Gunboat i.e. Cretheus?
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What you see in the tables isn't really indicative of the Elysium's actual capabilities. You should put more weight on what you see in the missions, where it has heavy armor 5, special hits to the tune of half a million, BALLS OF STEELE AI, and a subys-guardian-thresholded turret armed with dual WTFBlues.
I laughed out loud when I read this. Well done, well done.
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That's what I just said. Aeolus is good for the first two, more defensive roles (though a well flown gunboat is still a bane of anything smaller than a destroyer), while the Hyperion was made for swift surgical strikes.
Gunboat i.e. Cretheus?
Well, I was thinking more about the Custos. You'll see in WiH2 what I'm talking about. :) Cretheus is more of an "Aeolus Lite", definitely a defensive vessel. It even looks the part.