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Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Spoon on June 20, 2012, 11:03:33 am

Title: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Spoon on June 20, 2012, 11:03:33 am
http://www.edge-online.com/news/starbreeze-proud-syndicate-despite-poor-sales

Quote
"Yes, I'm still proud of it," he said. "To have the courage to reboot the franchise…"
Look at all that courage, making a generic FPS.

Quote
"If we didn't do an exact copy of the game, they'd hate us. If we did do an exact copy, they'd say we didn't innovate. They were never ours to win; it was a lost battle from the get-go."
If it was such a lost battle from the get-go, why did they even started this when they had no clue on how to win it. (Protip: Not making a squad base strategy game into a generic FPS would have been a great start)

I feel this odd warm sensation reading how it sold like ****. Hopefully it'll send a message not to take the name of old games and turn them into ****ty first person dudebro shootan games.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: MatthTheGeek on June 20, 2012, 11:05:54 am
I'm looking forward to the day FPS will be a dead genre.

I'm also looking forward to the day humanity will be a dead race.

Let's hope the first comes before the second.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Dragon on June 20, 2012, 12:37:02 pm
Considering most FPSes don't need thinking to play them (those that do are scarce), I'd say they'll thrive as long as there dumb people who like to shoot stuff.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Mikes on June 20, 2012, 12:38:57 pm
Fidgeting for excuses and blaming the fans for their own gross incompetency.

Classic....

And no Spoon, I think you are too optimistic. Imho this isn't gonna teach them a thing... except to stay away from the Syndicate franchise and their ungrateful fans... and maybe to fire some people  who are deemed "responsible" for the mess.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Polpolion on June 20, 2012, 01:03:57 pm
I'm looking forward to the day FPS will be a dead genre.

I'm also looking forward to the day humanity will be a dead race.

Let's hope the first comes before the second.

Considering most FPSes don't need thinking to play them (those that do are scarce), I'd say they'll thrive as long as there dumb people who like to shoot stuff.

there is absolutely nothing intrinsically wrong with the genre. the developers made a design decision that they didn't have the resources to back up. big deal, some games just aren't as much fun as others. you can guess how hard it gets to stay fresh in a genre as big as shooters. that said, I don't at all blame either of you for being jaded.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: SypheDMar on June 20, 2012, 01:13:52 pm
If anything, Metroid Prime taught me that FPS can be fun and smart. Some may call it a First-Person Adventure to differentiate from other FPSes, but to me, Metroid Prime and its sequels are great FPS games with lots of exploration and puzzles. And meat!

ie, what Polpolion said about how FPS are not intrinsically bad.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Mongoose on June 20, 2012, 01:14:42 pm
I'm looking forward to the day FPS will be a dead genre.

I'm also looking forward to the day humanity will be a dead race.

Let's hope the first comes before the second.
Some of us do legitimately like FPSes; they're probably about my favorite genre all things considered.  That being said, I don't want fans of other genres screwed over by misguided publishers using old IPs for mediocre entries into an overcrowded field.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: StarSlayer on June 20, 2012, 01:22:12 pm
I most defs hated FPS before hating FPS was mainstream.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Polpolion on June 20, 2012, 01:29:56 pm
you mean when they were novel and innovative? well, to each his own.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: StarSlayer on June 20, 2012, 01:39:55 pm
forgot my sarcasm tags
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on June 20, 2012, 01:40:54 pm
Nothing wrong with FPSes. They're fun for what they are.
As far as Syndicate goes, well if Xcom Enemy Unknown sells like gangbusters maybe we'll see a more true to form Syndicate in future.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Dragon on June 20, 2012, 01:44:20 pm
There's nothing wrong with FPSes, but clones of Doom and Halo are getting boring. Metro 2033, Marathon and ArmA are all very good FPSes, though the first two mostly because of the story (the "shooter" part in Metro isn't anything stellar, and Marathon is just plain primitive). First Red Faction was good (the second less so), and SW: Dark Forces series were decent (though the FPS element in them was average, I mostly played them for story and lightsaber combat).
My issue with most FPSes is that they focus on simplistic gameplay and often have a poor excuse for a story, focusing on multiplayer. SW: Battlefront 2 could've been much better if it had a more immersive gameplay model in SP instead of blatant MP-oriented point control. Just about the only good thing about it was the plot, which was a refreshing take on the events (being played from Imperial perspective).
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Spoon on June 20, 2012, 01:46:51 pm
Fidgeting for excuses and blaming the fans for their own gross incompetency.

Classic....

And no Spoon, I think you are too optimistic. Imho this isn't gonna teach them a thing... except to stay away from the Syndicate franchise and their ungrateful fans... and maybe to fire some people  who are deemed "responsible" for the mess.
I'm afraid you are right on that  :(
The firing actually already happened (http://www.edge-online.com/news/starbreeze-confirms-layoffs)
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on June 20, 2012, 02:18:53 pm
Fidgeting for excuses and blaming the fans for their own gross incompetency.

Classic....

And no Spoon, I think you are too optimistic. Imho this isn't gonna teach them a thing... except to stay away from the Syndicate franchise and their ungrateful fans... and maybe to fire some people  who are deemed "responsible" for the mess.
I'm afraid you are right on that  :(
The firing actually already happened (http://www.edge-online.com/news/starbreeze-confirms-layoffs)

You do know those layoffs occured before the game was even released right? That just suggests they didn't have another product in the pipeline to feed those people.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Dragon on June 20, 2012, 02:23:33 pm
Yeah, it seems those were the usual "economic crisis" layoffs. Same ol' buzzwords, same ol' reasoning.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Spoon on June 20, 2012, 02:36:55 pm
You do know those layoffs occured before the game was even released right? That just suggests they didn't have another product in the pipeline to feed those people.
I think they had a pretty good impression on how well the game would do before it even got released. Had they expected this to be one of the next best 'triple-A fps franchises' they would have kept them for the inevitable sequel cash cow.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: BloodEagle on June 20, 2012, 03:04:53 pm
Metro 2033 [...] are all very good FPSes, though [...] mostly because of the story (the "shooter" part in Metro isn't anything stellar

I disagree with the notion that Metro 2033 has a good story.  It certainly has a good atmosphere, but that's about it.

Quote from: My (De-)Recommendation Blurb on Steam
I do not recommend this game for anything other than research purposes.

A great display of atmosphere.
A truly stupendous opening.
Lackluster gameplay and incoherent puzzles.
Very poor level design.
Poor auditory directional handling.
A pointless economy.
Completely forgettable NPCs.
A nonsensical story.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Dragon on June 20, 2012, 03:47:29 pm
To each their own, I suppose. I liked the NPCs, idea for economy seemed brilliant and the atmosphere was great. Gameplay was nothing stellar, but I don't play FPSes (other than ArmA) for gameplay. Maybe if the same story was told differently, it's be average, but something in a way it was told just got me. I especially liked the beginning, later (after Polis station) it got somewhat weird, but still enjoyable. I don't have much to say for the puzzles, but they felt allright. Afterall, strange visions inside your head are rarely coherent. They felt right and weren't too difficult.

As for level design, it was indeed quite poor gameplay-wise, but very realistic. Let's face it, Moscow metro wasn't build with such events in mind, and it certainly felt like it. I'm not sure about auditory directional handling complaint, I didn't pay that much attention to sound system, but with my 5.1 headphones, it sounded really good. It also had amazing graphics, which I was able to experience in all their DX10 glory (decision to switch to Vista finally starts paying off).

Note, the above is coming from a guy living at the doorstep of former Soviet Union. Moscow is much closer to me than Las Vegas, both culturally and geographically. One thing I liked about Metro is that it was very Russian. I guess that somebody living in a different place might have different feelings about it.

Also, I wonder if you noticed a Discworld shout-out (because there's no way that could be accidental, I tell you).
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Mongoose on June 20, 2012, 03:59:59 pm
I most defs hated FPS before hating FPS was mainstream.
Hipster gamer.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: BloodEagle on June 20, 2012, 08:27:17 pm
To each their own, I suppose. I liked the NPCs, idea for economy seemed brilliant and the atmosphere was great. Gameplay was nothing stellar, but I don't play FPSes (other than ArmA) for gameplay. Maybe if the same story was told differently, it's be average, but something in a way it was told just got me. I especially liked the beginning, later (after Polis station) it got somewhat weird, but still enjoyable. I don't have much to say for the puzzles, but they felt allright. Afterall, strange visions inside your head are rarely coherent. They felt right and weren't too difficult.

As for level design, it was indeed quite poor gameplay-wise, but very realistic. Let's face it, Moscow metro wasn't build with such events in mind, and it certainly felt like it. I'm not sure about auditory directional handling complaint, I didn't pay that much attention to sound system, but with my 5.1 headphones, it sounded really good. It also had amazing graphics, which I was able to experience in all their DX10 glory (decision to switch to Vista finally starts paying off).

Note, the above is coming from a guy living at the doorstep of former Soviet Union. Moscow is much closer to me than Las Vegas, both culturally and geographically. One thing I liked about Metro is that it was very Russian. I guess that somebody living in a different place might have different feelings about it.

Also, I wonder if you noticed a Discworld shout-out (because there's no way that could be accidental, I tell you).

The idea for the economy itself wasn't bad.  But the way it was implemented rendered it pointless.

The audio thing went something like this: I heard something towards my left, I looked left, guy that's now behind me shoots me.  Maybe this issue doesn't exist on surround sound setups, as I was using headphones.

And yes, the atmosphere was handled very well.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: pecenipicek on June 20, 2012, 08:48:55 pm
does anyone have comparisons for the sale of the original Syndicate? because something tells me this sold far more than the original :p
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Flipside on June 20, 2012, 09:11:36 pm
If they'd have made the new X-Com game to run as a FPS, all manner of hellfire and brimstone would have been rained down on them, same case here.

There are some things that go outside of 'storyline' when defining computer games, it's like serving pasta on a bed of jam, they might both be delicious individually and appeal to Pasta Lovers in one case and Jam Lovers in the other, but try and put the two together and you get something that appeals to neither, even if they like both individually.

It's the fact that a lot of companies view the computer game industry like the film industry, Computer Games have several 'methods' of delivering the story in the way you interact with the interface. Games like Syndicate Wars worked because you took the role of the 'unseen controller', usually the character in the movie who appears only for the final scene, if at all. Computer Games are the only media where the Protagonist can actually be completely invisible throughout the experience. FPS Games, however, are the complete opposite, making the Protagonist the central interactive focus of the game, where you quite literally control his/her every action.

There's nothing wrong with that, it provides a more intense, personal experience, but in the case of Syndicate Wars, that's not what made the game so great, quite the opposite in fact, it was the removed, 'distant' style of gameplay that made it work.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Spoon on June 20, 2012, 09:27:42 pm
does anyone have comparisons for the sale of the original Syndicate? because something tells me this sold far more than the original :p
Which is of course a completely pointless comparison if you don't factor in production costs (and the time in which it was made and how much the market is different now)
Something tells me that with the budget of this latest 'reboot' you could have funded 10 old syndicate games.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Alan Bolte on June 20, 2012, 09:49:09 pm
Was Syndicate really that bad? I never played it, but what I'd heard was that the single-player wasn't really any dumber than most generic FPS, and the co-op was better than Left 4 Dead.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 20, 2012, 10:04:26 pm
If they'd have made the new X-Com game to run as a FPS, all manner of hellfire and brimstone would have been rained down on them, same case here.

Case in point; they did, and it did. It's unclear whether 2K Marin's XCOM shooter will ever see the light of day now, as it's already been postponed back first six months and then another six months.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: headdie on June 21, 2012, 02:20:09 am
If they'd have made the new X-Com game to run as a FPS, all manner of hellfire and brimstone would have been rained down on them, same case here.

Case in point; they did, and it did. It's unclear whether 2K Marin's XCOM shooter will ever see the light of day now, as it's already been postponed back first six months and then another six months.

enforcer anyone? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-COM:_Enforcer
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Flipside on June 21, 2012, 03:04:12 am
I seem to recall that Enforcer had no more luck establishing a strategy-game storyline into an action theme than any of the others. It's like... have you ever seen the film 'Battleship' - Based on the Hasbro Game? That is what I mean, the only thing the two have in common is Battles and Ships, but there's no realistic way to link the action on the screen with the table-top strategy game. A 'FPS Syndicate' falls roughly into the same category as 'Action movie about the game Battleship'. What comes out the other end might be a great movie, or a great game, but it just lost pretty much everything definitive in translation.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: jr2 on June 21, 2012, 04:04:36 am
When I saw the opening credits for Battleship and it said based off of the Hasbro game, I wanted to choke someone.  :ick:  Come on.  Seriously?  If it was some sort of runaway computer playing Battleship and instead ordering actual assets around, maybe you could sort of wrangle a link.  I think it has more to do with the fact the Battleship is what they wanted to name the movie.  However, Hasbro's got that trademarked, so they had to include Hasbro in the little deal.  My quick guess, anyways.  It doesn't make sense otherwise.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on June 21, 2012, 05:02:48 am
When I saw the opening credits for Battleship and it said based off of the Hasbro game, I wanted to choke someone.  :ick:  Come on.  Seriously?  If it was some sort of runaway computer playing Battleship and instead ordering actual assets around, maybe you could sort of wrangle a link.  I think it has more to do with the fact the Battleship is what they wanted to name the movie.  However, Hasbro's got that trademarked, so they had to include Hasbro in the little deal.  My quick guess, anyways.  It doesn't make sense otherwise.

There is supposidely a bit in battleship where they launch targetting devices or whatnot, in an effort to find the enemy (ie saying B4 or E8 or whatever). Didn't watch it myself. Seemed like a transformers wanna be and unsurprisingly by the same studio. Terrible
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: jr2 on June 21, 2012, 05:34:10 am
Err... yeah ok so they were using a grid of sonar tsunami-tracking buoys to target the enemy ships... :doubt: The movie is hardly based on that sequence, it's just a plot device.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: BlueFlames on June 21, 2012, 06:32:44 am
The movie is hardly based on that sequence, it's just a plot device.

Probably because someone realized that such a sequence for 90 minutes would be mind-numbingly dull.  Not to say that that's necessarily worse than what was actually shoveled into theatres.  It's just a different kind of terrible.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Ghostavo on June 21, 2012, 10:37:34 am
Depends on how you do it. Minesweeper (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHY8NKj3RKs) could be interesting.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on June 21, 2012, 12:59:31 pm
Err... yeah ok so they were using a grid of sonar tsunami-tracking buoys to target the enemy ships... :doubt: The movie is hardly based on that sequence, it's just a plot device.

Yeah it's a plot device that directly ties into the gameplay of battleship though. Battleship is just a guessing game, people putting plastic pieces on a grid and some god figure guessing where they are to destroy them. (I saw god figure because the ability to attack the enemy isn't dependent on what ships you have). Is it a loose tie in? Sure. But is that any different than these movies that are "based on a real story" and vary from the truth by some huge degree like U571? (Let's have an american submarine capture the enigma device, instead of a British surface ship).

The problem or benefit of basing a movie on an abstract game is that you can basically do anything you damn well please and still tie it in.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Al-Rik on June 21, 2012, 02:33:25 pm
My issue with most FPSes is that they focus on simplistic gameplay and often have a poor excuse for a story, focusing on multiplayer.
Well, there isn't anything wrong on simplistic gameplay and focus on multiplayer - if they are doing it right.

But they doing it wrong.
For example Battlefield 3. It's focus is the multiplayer, but they striped all of the tools for teamwork that made Battlefield 2 unique.
Instead they add a lot of upgrades making the game more complex without improving the teamwork beyond the standard of usual FPS.

The last Singleplayer FPS I really enjoyed was the Stalker Series. I like the exploring of the open world, which was more fun than shooting at the baddies.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: MrUnimport on June 21, 2012, 03:39:03 pm
Would someone who actually played the original Syndicate please fill me in here? I keep hearing comments implying that the original squad-based tactics game in fact wasn't a whole lot deeper than Cannon Fodder, is this true?

Of course, it goes without saying that that's still much deeper than hack-everything-button.
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Flipside on June 21, 2012, 03:45:42 pm
Losing a unit in a mission wasn't the end of the world, the equipment it carried was a bigger loss, but it was more about utilizing the team on multiple fronts and converting masses of civilians into a flesh wall ;)
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Davros on June 22, 2012, 01:18:49 am
I played the original but not cannon fodder so I cant compare
but syndicate had a certain depth, you took over territories and leveled taxes, you had to find the right amount or the people would revolt also other syndictes would be doing the same and you had to take over their territory
you could persuade civilians to help you fight, research weapons and upgrades, you can enhance your agents with cybernetics also change their mental state by administering drugs to them to increase stamina, intelligence ect. you had to be careful doing this as the drugs had side effects. you could pick up weapons from enemies to use/salvage or research. Do you use a new high tech weapon in your next mission or do you send it off to research so that after some time you could manufacture your own.

ps: Syndicate Wars works great under win 7 with a port (you still need the original game)
http://swars.vexillium.org/
Title: Re: Syndicate 'reboot' sold like ****, developer confirmed for retarded
Post by: Grizzly on June 22, 2012, 04:47:21 am
To each their own, I suppose. I liked the NPCs, idea for economy seemed brilliant and the atmosphere was great. Gameplay was nothing stellar, but I don't play FPSes (other than ArmA) for gameplay. Maybe if the same story was told differently, it's be average, but something in a way it was told just got me. I especially liked the beginning, later (after Polis station) it got somewhat weird, but still enjoyable. I don't have much to say for the puzzles, but they felt allright. Afterall, strange visions inside your head are rarely coherent. They felt right and weren't too difficult.

As for level design, it was indeed quite poor gameplay-wise, but very realistic. Let's face it, Moscow metro wasn't build with such events in mind, and it certainly felt like it. I'm not sure about auditory directional handling complaint, I didn't pay that much attention to sound system, but with my 5.1 headphones, it sounded really good. It also had amazing graphics, which I was able to experience in all their DX10 glory (decision to switch to Vista finally starts paying off).

Note, the above is coming from a guy living at the doorstep of former Soviet Union. Moscow is much closer to me than Las Vegas, both culturally and geographically. One thing I liked about Metro is that it was very Russian. I guess that somebody living in a different place might have different feelings about it.

Also, I wonder if you noticed a Discworld shout-out (because there's no way that could be accidental, I tell you).

The idea for the economy itself wasn't bad.  But the way it was implemented rendered it pointless.

The audio thing went something like this: I heard something towards my left, I looked left, guy that's now behind me shoots me.  Maybe this issue doesn't exist on surround sound setups, as I was using headphones.

And yes, the atmosphere was handled very well.

Metro 2033 gets a lot better when you play it more stealthily and in a more explory way. I highly recommend you do this, especially since (and don't read this if you intend to play the game again in such a fashion - seriously)

Spoiler:
you then get the option to save the dark ones.