Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kellan on June 10, 2002, 08:00:01 am
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...Well, the new ones, that is. Now that I've seen both I'd like to hear everyone's opinions. Am I mad, or are you stupid? :lol:
Personally, I think that Attack of the Clones was a let down. The dialogue, particularly in the 'love scenes' was laughably poor, the characterisation wasn't there and it wasn't paced right. Plus, the special effects looked too fake. Some of the weapons looked weird for the sake of being weird, though the sonic mines were cool. :devilidea
Spider-Man by comparison had better versions of everything that I just said was wrong with AOTC. It did have a mawkish patriotic scene, but only one. For that I am thankful.
And now, let the fighting commence! :)
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...Well, the new ones, that is. Now that I've seen both I'd like to hear everyone's opinions. Am I mad, or are you stupid?
Well i'm not stupid, but you're definately mad!
Personally, I think that Attack of the Clones was a let down. The dialogue, particularly in the 'love scenes' was laughably poor, the characterisation wasn't there and it wasn't paced right. Plus, the special effects looked too fake. Some of the weapons looked weird for the sake of being weird, though the sonic mines were cool.
The special effects were terrible, obviously ILM has been taking on too many newbies out of the local maya and PRMan training center. Bleurgh. I've seen films 5 years older with better looking effects than that, and the fact the film was basically a bad excuse for a CG-generated background flickshow didnt help much either.
The acting? dont even go there. It was worse than useless. I've seen more wooden acting from the muppets.
Weapons? the end lightsabre battle was a kind of lucid walkthrough until yoda appeared...it really was pathetic. The lightning didnt look very good either, I thought.
THe sonic mines LOOKED nice...but...wtf...sonic mines in space? eh? :wtf:
Spider-Man by comparison had better versions of everything that I just said was wrong with AOTC. It did have a mawkish patriotic scene, but only one. For that I am thankful.
Spider man was everything the comic said it should be, simple. Obviously it still suffers from the modern-movie ailment of style over substance but it is SO stylish I can just about live with that.
Excellent film
Spiderman - :yes: :D
AOtC - :no: :headz:
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The only thing I liked about SW:AOTC was Yoda!
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Haven't seen either one. :p
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That's to be expected. :D
wEvil, I agree with you that AOTC was just an excuse for a whole bucketload of effects. I seem to be the only one of the friends I went to see it with who thinks the Yoda fight was laughable, too. :p
Maybe I've been spoiled by the books...the Thrawn trilogy really is so much better than anything else in the Star Wars universe. :D
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As for style over substance, I agree that every film recently has suffered from that, really (things like Memento being the exception). However, if one can pull off a lot of style or have a bit of substance that's good. :D
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Star Wars is known to have poor acting in all the movies so-far!
The special effects, and, well... the name 'Star Wars' and the reputation it's gotten over time now the name doesn't mean anything...
I have seen Spiderman in theaters 3 times and Star Wars 4 times (including the 12:01 AM preimere)
Both movies were spectacular, both in effects, and in overall storyline.
wEvil... i have to disagree... I believe the special effects WERE awesome....
both movies were awesome, but I think I like star wars a little better out of the two ;)
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Didn't watch Ep2 yet... I don't want to watch the versions available at the net 'cause they're too crappy quality, don't want to spoil the real stuff. But I've watched Spider-man, and it's gonna be hard for a SW movie to be better than that. :)
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I've seen Ep2 and the only time I REALLY enjoyed watching it was the scene with Yoda fighting... sure the other fight scenes were good too :nod:
otherwise my comment is... "you should watch it... at least once"
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Hey Styxx, 2999 posts!
almost at the 3000 post mark :D
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Spider man was dumb. I am a true believer, but I still think it was very dumb, Star Wars gets a hand here :D
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Kellen is mad. The Special effects are brilliant, Lightsaber battles unmatched and expect for Mrs stone face Amidala the acting is pretty good. All the actors have some talent and do portray their characters well but Amidala is dull.
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Well, if you go by episode 1 they have some degree of talent... the problem is that it's a negative degree. :D
whoohoo! 3k posts! :D
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Kellen may be mad, but Kellan is right. :D
Though I thought that Anakin was reasonable, particularly when he went a little off the rails, and Chancellor Palpatine was excellent, it was the characterisation that killed Star Wars off.
The special effects though, were in no way as good as Spider-Man's - they looked too 'fake' as I say, and the Yoda fight really was dumb-looking. Anakin fighting Dooku for about 0.389 seconds was better.
Oh, and Unkown Target - in what way was Spider-Man dumb? It was pretty faithful to the comic-book rendition, really considering the mangling these things usually go through. :)
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Uh, yeah Spiderman himself looks fake to a large degree, less so with Yoda who looks cool also SW gets extra marks just for being SW :p.
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Originally posted by Zeronet
Uh, yeah Spiderman himself looks fake to a large degree, less so with Yoda who looks cool also SW gets extra marks just for being SW :p.
Before having seen the movie I would've agreed - Spider-Man does look fake in the trailers. However, in the film itself he seemed a lot more 'real' - I can't explain it, except perhaps by saying that I only ever saw the trailers on TV. Still, the 'making of' documentary showed that it was actually a costume, not a CG thing. The bits that were CG were the 'impossible' stunts.
If they can make a costume that looks like it's CG but is physically real, I have no complaints.
As for Yoda, don't hide behind the Just Because It's Star Wars It Is Automatically Cooler Than A Comparative Thing shield. Trust me, I love Star Wars, and I would have liked to have loved the last two movies. I can't though... :sigh:
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Mabye its the age barrier, after all SW is aimed at a younger audience to Spiderman. Still they should make a Punisher Movie, cos i got issue #1 of that, so if they made a movie my comic would be worth more :D. not got any really early Spiderman comics.
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Originally posted by Kellan
Maybe I've been spoiled by the books...the Thrawn trilogy really is so much better than anything else in the Star Wars universe. :D
*feels light-headed*
Man, if they made 7, 8 and 9 true to the Thrawn trilogy, it would easily have the potential to surpass not only 4-6 but LOTR as well!
*faints*
I haven't seen Spidey-man yet, but I recall laughing out loud throughout the whole Yoda scene the first time I saw Ep. II. You're not alone, Shrike. :)
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Originally posted by Zeronet
Mabye its the age barrier, after all SW is aimed at a younger audience to Spiderman.
IIRC, I'm a year older than you, so that wouldn't explain our difference of opinion unless you have the mind of a ten-year-old... :ha:
Originally posted by sandwich
Man, if they made 7, 8 and 9 true to the Thrawn trilogy, it would easily have the potential to surpass not only 4-6 but LOTR as well!
*sigh*
We can dream, sandwich, we can dream. I agree totally. :)
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My Chemistery teacher says its worrying i know about Particle accellerators and Fusion reactors and anti-matter. When she asked how we could turn hard water into soft i suggested using a particle accelerator :lol: . Not that effective but it was funny.
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:confused:
Your Chemistry what??
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Look again.
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Okay, now it makes sense, and I look stupid. :p
Clearly the best way to soften water is to smack it down with the HLPBB HOJ, anyway. No wonder they all laughed. :D
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There IS a Punisher movie... The only problem is that it's crap. Dolph Ludgreen (or whatever) and all that... :D
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Originally posted by sandwich
Man, if they made 7, 8 and 9 true to the Thrawn trilogy, it would easily have the potential to surpass not only 4-6 but LOTR as well!
What?! Are you out of your mind? That's just not possible, surpass LOTR (at least the books) is not possible!
And if I happen to read that Thrwan thing someday, I might even come up with some arguments about why I think it's worse. :p
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Originally posted by Styxx
There IS a Punisher movie... The only problem is that it's crap. Dolph Ludgreen (or whatever) and all that... :D
So that comic might actually have lost value... :D
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I didn't see any of them! :p
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Originally posted by Kellan
So that comic might actually have lost value... :D
Hehe, true, true... :D
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Originally posted by Kellan
That's to be expected. :D
wEvil, I agree with you that AOTC was just an excuse for a whole bucketload of effects. I seem to be the only one of the friends I went to see it with who thinks the Yoda fight was laughable, too. :p
Maybe I've been spoiled by the books...the Thrawn trilogy really is so much better than anything else in the Star Wars universe. :D
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As for style over substance, I agree that every film recently has suffered from that, really (things like Memento being the exception). However, if one can pull off a lot of style or have a bit of substance that's good. :D
Thrawn is The Man!
I haven't seen momento...should do at some point. And Star Wars is no match for the visual effects in Final Fantasy, THAT is realism.
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Isn't the Thrawn trilogy the ones with the rogue Jedi clone and the plots to capture Leia? Good books.
BTW, my SW Rankings are:
Ep. IV (duh)
Ep. V
Ep. II
Ep. VI
I don't recognize any other Star Wars movie as legit.
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Could of gained value, do to the comic being better than the film and thus more worthy.
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Originally posted by Levyathan
What?! Are you out of your mind? That's just not possible, surpass LOTR (at least the books) is not possible!
And if I happen to read that Thrwan thing someday, I might even come up with some arguments about why I think it's worse. :p
I have:
- read LOTR numerous times
- seen the movie numerous times
- read the Thrawn trilogy numerous times
You have:
- read LOTR (numerous times?)
- seen LOTR (numerous times?)
- not read the Thrawn trilogy
Conclusion: Stating that you don't like cheesecake as much as apple pie is an act of idiocy if you have never tasted cheesecake.
Get the picture? :nod: Good - now go read those books. :D
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The special effects though, were in no way as good as Spider-Man's - they looked too 'fake' as I say, and the Yoda fight really was dumb-looking. Anakin fighting Dooku for about 0.389 seconds was better.
Oh, and Unkown Target - in what way was Spider-Man dumb? It was pretty faithful to the comic-book rendition, really considering the mangling these things usually go through. :) [/B]
Special effects were a totally different category between spiderman and star wars... the effects were different! Star wars had blaster and lightsaber and ship effects, while spiderman had 'web' and 'flying' effects... they were both good!
Spiderman was pretty true to the book, except that the web that came out of his wrists was made organic, while in the book he had a special cartridge he had to keep putting in!!!?
remember? they ruined the whole 'true to the comic book' by doing that.
otherwise it was awesome!
What?! Are you out of your mind? That's just not possible, surpass LOTR (at least the books) is not possible!
Anything's possible...
Star Wars is pretty close to LOTR as it is
The special effects though, were in no way as good as Spider-Man's - they looked too 'fake' as I say, and the Yoda fight really was dumb-looking. Anakin fighting Dooku for about 0.389 seconds was better.
Just because you're defending spiderman doesn't mean you've got to talk lies about Star Wars... anyone who watches it can see how awesome the special effects are. Sound and effects are two things NO ONE can say about Star Wars!!!
Yoda fight scene was supposed to be comical... the whole movie (if you noticed) had much more jokes than any of the other Star Wars movies!
Uh, yeah Spiderman himself looks fake to a large degree, less so with Yoda who looks cool also SW gets extra marks just for being SW .
lol, i agree about the 'extra marks' thing :D
Spiderman looked good in the costume that he designed halfway through the movie, but don't tell me he didn't look cheesy in that costume he wore the first half!!! (with the gloves and all) (the one he wrestled in)
Before having seen the movie I would've agreed - Spider-Man does look fake in the trailers. However, in the film itself he seemed a lot more 'real' - I can't explain it, except perhaps by saying that I only ever saw the trailers on TV. Still, the 'making of' documentary showed that it was actually a costume, not a CG thing. The bits that were CG were the 'impossible' stunts.
I'm guessing that in the Teaser, (the one with the two towers and the people that rob the bank) spiderman was 100% CG... no acting... it sure looked that way! I thought it was good animation, but i hoped there would be more acting.
in the real movie there was a lot more acting... hardly anything 'looked' CG. maybe in the 'making of' they said that it was an actual costume, but only in some parts, and definately not in the Teaser :D
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Originally posted by sandwich
I have:
- read LOTR numerous times
- seen the movie numerous times
- read the Thrawn trilogy numerous times
You have:
- read LOTR (numerous times?)
- seen LOTR (numerous times?)
- not read the Thrawn trilogy
I have:
- read LOTR in 6th grade (the entire trilogy)
- seen the movie 4 times
- read LOTR about 6 months ago (entire trilogy and silmerilian)
- read about 20 Star Wars books (out of like 200!) (including Thrawn trilogy)
Thrawn remains my favorite Star Wars character...
after Thrawn my favorite is Kuelller...
Kueller wears a mask to hide that he's so young, he's only a young teenager. He was involved with Brakiss (Jedi Knight who turned to the dark side after training under Master Luke Skywalker) the only way Master Luke Skywalker can defeat Kueller is bringing those worm-like things (can't remember their name, don't want to look it up) that create a bubble in the force... then Leia shoots him (he doesn't have the force to help him block with his lightsaber)
just had to say that... now i've pretty much summarized at least one book :) lol
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Originally posted by Stealth
Just because you're defending spiderman doesn't mean you've got to talk lies about Star Wars... anyone who watches it can see how awesome the special effects are. Sound and effects are two things NO ONE can say about Star Wars!!!
Yoda fight scene was supposed to be comical... the whole movie (if you noticed) had much more jokes than any of the other Star Wars movies!
Okay, I agree that the sound on SW movies is unsurpassed. However, my opinion on the special effects is just that - my opinion. It's not necessarily lies...I just preferred the look of the Spider-Man effects.
Spiderman looked good in the costume that he designed halfway through the movie, but don't tell me he didn't look cheesy in that costume he wore the first half!!! (with the gloves and all) (the one he wrestled in)
That was meant to be comical. And it was. :D
I'm guessing that in the Teaser, (the one with the two towers and the people that rob the bank) spiderman was 100% CG... no acting... it sure looked that way! I thought it was good animation, but i hoped there would be more acting.
in the real movie there was a lot more acting... hardly anything 'looked' CG. maybe in the 'making of' they said that it was an actual costume, but only in some parts, and definately not in the Teaser :D [/B]
Oh, I didn't say it wasn't CG in the teaser. In that, it certainly looked very much more CG than in the actual movie.
EDIT: Quoting madness.
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People always slag of the acting in starwars...
they are jedi, they control their emotions - of course their going to be a bit dull.
origionally posted by Stealth
Special effects were a totally different category between spiderman and star wars...
:nod: Star wars has to create virtually a new universe, all spiderman has to make is someone swinging about a few skyscrapers.
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Originally posted by beatspete
People always slag of the acting in starwars...
they are jedi, they control their emotions - of course their going to be a bit dull.
Just listen to Anakin; in several scenes he sounds like he got no sleep at all, or he was doing "deathsticks", not really controlling his emotions. He sounds like he's trying to whine, but he doesn't have the energy to.
On the other hand, I don't see how anyone sees Obi-Wan's acting as wooden, or Palpatine's...or Mace Windu's, or Qui-Gon's, or Dooku's, or Fett's...
Personally, I think that the missing-sleep-because-of-not-seeing-Padme was taken a little too far. And that's where the critics get all their wooden acting complaints.
In Episode 1..."Are you angel?"
Need I say more? :p
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I agree with everything you said in your last post Kellan :)
EDIT:
There's no point making a new thread of this... i'll use this one...
exactly what is HLP about? Just Freespace 1/2? or does it include Freelancer and Independent War (i don't know anything about these two games) exactly what are they?
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
In Episode 1..."Are you angel?"
Need I say more? :p
That part actually made me embarassed!!! I don't know why, but that has got to be the key factor to why episode 1 sucked so bad!
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Well AoTC was what I expected, I enjoyed it that's all I have to say. (hrmm this was my arguement with Jennings too on the movie :p )
In Episode 1..."Are you angel?" Despite how much that made me cringe it's not as bad as A.I.: "Blue fairy, make me real!" :shudder:
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
In Episode 1..."Are you an angel?"
Need I say more? :p
Maybe...
Spider-man: Aunt Mae! Aunt Mae! Is that an angel?
:sigh:
How cliche' can you get.
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Meh......
Spiderman was a comic book come to life. It was great.
Star Wars was Anakin being a whiny ***** that should be slapped around by Obi-Wan, and Padme being a 26 year old that hasn't had a boyfriend since 13? Christ, it's silly... The romance stuff could have worked out if it had been played right, but it wasn't. It was stupid teen romance, not career people romance.
And I'm sorry, but how many successful, up and coming 26 year old women do you know will fall for a whiny, arrogant 16 year old boy?
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Hold on a moment, wasn't she supposed to be 14 in episode 1, and Anakin 9?
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He sure as hell didn't look 9.
And of course, that shows just how friggen stupid the Naboo are. Who in their right minds elects someone who is [size=10]14 freaking years old[/size] to be your leader? I hope they BDZ Naboo in Ep 3.
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Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
Maybe...
Spider-man: Aunt Mae! Aunt Mae! Is that an angel?
:sigh:
How cliche' can you get.
OOOHHHHHH *shudders*
"are you an angel" "aunt mae, is that an angel" and "make me real" all send cold shivers up and down my spine!
"aunt mae, is that an angel" was BAD, but not THAT bad... because she was explaining how he was when he was younger...and, well, it was really cheesy, but not as bad as anakin in episode 1 :D
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Shrike, you've hit the nail RIGHT on the head!
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Originally posted by Shrike
He sure as hell didn't look 9.
I meant in Episode I...
Yeah, the Naboo are kind of........odd. It's a good thing they have a democracy or else Jar-Jar and Padme would cause some real problems, especially with that decoy of hers.
"Will you sign the treaty Queen Amidala?"
"Certainly, Viceroy"
"We fear for your life should the citizens hear of this, highness."
"Nonsense. Who cares about them?"
"It is our duty to advise you, your highness."
"Well, you annoy me now. Go give Jar-Jar a bath."
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Spider Man Rules...
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I think overall that Kellan is right. Spiderman had a better story, better characters, better overall feel to it. I walked out feeling satisfied and wowed with that movie.
StarWars Episode II was StarWars. I still liked it, I liked it because it was fun...but I didn't feel wowed. I just felt like I had seen it and it was done. I thought the grand scale was cool, I felt the special effects were good...but yes...it did feel a bit flat.
I still liked it. So if you ask me if it was a good movie. Yeah, I'd say so. I had fun. But its kind of special interest in that regard.
If you ask me to compaire....Spiderman is so much better.
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Originally posted by Shrike
Meh......
Spiderman was a comic book come to life. It was great.
Star Wars was Anakin being a whiny ***** that should be slapped around by Obi-Wan, and Padme being a 26 year old that hasn't had a boyfriend since 13? Christ, it's silly... The romance stuff could have worked out if it had been played right, but it wasn't. It was stupid teen romance, not career people romance.
And I'm sorry, but how many successful, up and coming 26 year old women do you know will fall for a whiny, arrogant 16 year old boy?
That's why you sleep through that part of the movie. You wake up for the parts involving the clones, the Trade Federation, Obi-wan, Yoda, and Jango Fett.
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Spider-Man was cool if for no other reason Sam Raimi found a way to incorporate the Usual Suspects(Bruce Campbell and Sam's brother Ted) into his film.
SW was cool because it it STAR WARS. Other than that it really doesn't surpass any of the other SW movies.
Spidey has already beaten the Jedi in Box Office receipts by a couple of million dollars(the exact figure escapes me) this just goes to show that the movie going public has started taking quality instead of quantity of SPFX and acting.
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I have disavowed Episode 1. It is not because of Jar-Jar. It is not because of the Anakin-Amidala romance. Nothing like that. It makes me cringe to remember it. Just typing it out is painful.
Anakin killing the trade federation control ship by accident.
AAAAH! There. I've said it. A major bonus point with me is believable fight scenes. They don't have to be realistic, just believable. That scene was not believable at all.
This is also why I think the fight between Obi-Wan Kenobi and Jango Fett on Kamino was the best fight scene of Episode 2. IIRC, they didn't taunt eachother or say anything stupid ("I guess we'll have to decide this with lightsabers," ick). They just got down to business. They also didn't waste time with stupid theatrics. I like it better that way.
*****SMALL SPOILER*****
It's too bad that the Fett family has a penchant for dying in stupid ways.
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I hate SW ! nuff said.
And Spiderman is way cooler and looks better imho.
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Originally posted by IceFire
StarWars Episode II was StarWars. I still liked it, I liked it because it was fun...but I didn't feel wowed. I just felt like I had seen it and it was done. I thought the grand scale was cool, I felt the special effects were good...but yes...it did feel a bit flat.
I still liked it. So if you ask me if it was a good movie. Yeah, I'd say so. I had fun. But its kind of special interest in that regard.
Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed it, and it had it's moments for sure. The fight between Jango and Obi-Wan was very good, and the double lightsaber bit...
...So I agree with IceFire here. Spider-Man was better, but Star Wars wasn't exactly tripe - just not an Empire Strikes Back event. :)
And pete: AoTC didn't have to construct a whole universe. It had four other films to rely on for background info, plus a whole ****load of books. Now you can't say that it didn't play on the fact it was one episode in several with its Ep IV-VI mimics, and the assumption of certain things from the other films. Not that this is a bad thing, but they were hardly creating the universe from scratch.
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Originally posted by sandwich
I have:
- read LOTR numerous times
- seen the movie numerous times
- read the Thrawn trilogy numerous times
You have:
- read LOTR (numerous times?)
- seen LOTR (numerous times?)
- not read the Thrawn trilogy
Conclusion: Stating that you don't like cheesecake as much as apple pie is an act of idiocy if you have never tasted cheesecake.
Get the picture? :nod: Good - now go read those books. :D
You're wrong. If I know I don't like cheese, then I can tell I don't like cheesecake without tasting it, and that's not idiocy. :ha:
I just can't concieve the idea of Star Wars being better than Lord of the Rings. I have seen the films (several times, believe me!) and I think they don't even come close to LOTR. I have tasted Star Wars, I might have an idea what that trilogy is about.
And go read the Silmarillion (if you haven't)!
Originally posted by Stealth
Anything's possible...
Star Wars is pretty close to LOTR as it is
Ack! I'm among heretics here! :p
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Well, the thing is - Star Wars is not anymore about a story, it's about merchandise. They just want to cram the largest number of potential toys, t-shirts and other stuff inside a single movie...
As for the novels, there's no way in hell we can find them around here, so mail them to me and I'll get a serious, unbiased (hehe) review... :D
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AAAAH! There. I've said it. A major bonus point with me is believable fight scenes. They don't have to be realistic, just believable. That scene was not believable at all.
Well, that's the main "beef" I have with the whole Star Wars universe; almost nothing seems to be believable and logically consistent. :p
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i've read the silmirilian
it's a matter of opinion... starwars, spiderman, LOTR... all good effects and (somewhat) good acting mostly, but set totally different!
one's set a long time ago on 'middle-earth'
one's set a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away
one's set right now
one's about fighting magical creatures with swords
one's about fighting aliens with blasters and lightsabers
one's about fighting comic characters with ... web... ?
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Originally posted by Shrike
I hope they BDZ Naboo in Ep 3.
One of the many reasons Episode I should have been set on Alderaan, instead of making up a completely new planet. I can just see those Gungan faces staring up at the Death Star as it orbits menacingly...