Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Unknown Target on July 20, 2012, 01:35:36 am
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Just got SOL: Exodus on the Steam Summer Sale for $5 and it's...ok. But it's not Freespace. The funny part is that I can see little bits of Freespace poking out from under the hood, but it doesn't come close. The universe [V] built, helped along a LOT by getting not just good but amazing voice actors, excellent rendered animations, not just for the animatics but for all the weapons, ships, and tech data, just built this amazing sense that you were truly in the universe the game took place in. Not to mention sharp combat mechanics and an amazing story telling style makes sure this game is forever a classic.
Also, one big thing they did right was the radar; it's not super complex like a 3D orb, but it's very good at referencing where ships are relative to you. The one in SOL is terrible; I've found myself spinning in circles because it doesn't tell me where the ships are very well; one of the big reasons is that the ships don't really migrate to the center of the display as you turn to face them; ships in front tend to stay at the top of the radar display. Very frustrating.
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it's not super complex like a 3D orb
How is a 3D orb super complex. It's much simpler to use than the 2D radar.
Actually, screw that. I can feel from here all the 2D lovers powering up their raeg cannons.
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it's not super complex like a 3D orb
How is a 3D orb super complex. It's much simpler to use than the 2D radar.
Actually, screw that. I can feel from here all the 2D lovers powering up their raeg cannons.
You said it, and then I quoted it, so too late. :p
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it's not super complex like a 3D orb
How is a 3D orb super complex. It's much simpler to use than the 2D radar.
Actually, screw that. I can feel from here all the 2D lovers powering up their raeg cannons.
3D orbs are fine. I was exaggerating.
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Ah like mah 2D radar!
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There, told ya.
/me get : thread hijack
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it's not super complex like a 3D orb
How is a 3D orb super complex. It's much simpler to use than the 2D radar.
Actually, screw that. I can feel from here all the 2D lovers powering up their raeg cannons.
I couldn't find the esacpe pod in AoA because I couldn't tell the difference between in front and behind, since they line up on the 3D radar. Plus other navigation-based missions. This is a rather large issue.
anyway... :beamz:
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The only issue I see exists between the keyboard and chair :p
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The only issue I see exists between the keyboard and chair :p
Probably, but there is insufficient data when forward and back are the exact same thing on the radar.
I'd claim it's useless for multi, but I rely more on target view then radar for anyone chasing me.
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just by changing your orientation a bit you can tell between front/back on the 3D-radar, or you can pay attention to the way the "tail" is pointing
I actually prefer it.
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...Ilike2dradar:<
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3D radar with radar icons. Sure, you run into depth problems because the tails are gone, but with practice, you can see where everything is through icon size and parallax.
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I'd use radar icons if someone made a pack that only listed capital ships as icons and not fighters/bombers as that just creates a mess :P
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I like the 2D radar better in principle, but even putting that aside, the 3D radar just looks ass-ugly in its current implementation. :p
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I like the 2D radar better in principle, but even putting that aside, the 3D radar just looks ass-ugly in its current implementation. :p
This. Oh so many time this. This. This. This.
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Man Freespace is/was awesome
I'd use radar icons if someone made a pack that only listed capital ships as icons and not fighters/bombers as that just creates a mess :P
I like the 2D radar better in principle, but even putting that aside, the 3D radar just looks ass-ugly in its current implementation. :p
Lotta truth in this thread. :nod:
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I like the 2D radar better in principle, but even putting that aside, the 3D radar just looks ass-ugly in its current implementation. :p
Wut.
What's wrong with the 3d radar. Give arguments.
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Lines everywhere (functional I know but they look like ass) especially with icons which are TERRIBAD.
Lots of unneeded information for noobs clouding the instrument when 2d radar works perfectly in all situations except for the one that the 3d radar buckles under anyway (many many targets).
If you are fluent in both 3d radar takes longer to read, basically.
Fix that, and I'll have no problem with it.
Problem is, you can't.
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Wut.
Did QD post made sense to anyone ?
I don't understahnd what you mean by "lines look like ass". Is your 3d radar glitching ? Maybe you should mantis something.
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Without icons the radar shows everthing like o---------- that points to the center.
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Icons are worse than that though.
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QD's post makes perfect sense to me.
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In larger missions the 3d radar tends to look like a ball with lots of needles pinned into it, which can obstruct the view somewhat.
I also prefer the clean efficiency of the original 2d radar without icons.
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when i first installed FSO, i was all excited about the 3D radar because it was neat and fun. i got over that however, because it takes active thought to use. with 2D, you just move your nose toward the dot.
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I like the 2D radar better in principle, but even putting that aside, the 3D radar just looks ass-ugly in its current implementation. :p
Wut.
What's wrong with the 3d radar. Give arguments.
From a visual standpoint, the 3D radar clashes horribly with the rest of the HUD interface. You have all of the retail FS2 gauges, the nicely-rendered bitmaps that all work smoothly together...and then you have a mess of vector-drawn orange and purple and whatever lines spilling out of the radar area. It's extremely jarring, and I don't want to stare at it while I'm playing a mission.
This isn't to disparage the existence of the feature in the first place; it's a cool bit of coding. It just desperately needs a fresh coat of paint.
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As for there being too many targets, doesn't setting radar range fix that?
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Yes. Play with less optimal settings when there's another mode you can use which displays that information more efficiently.
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:wtf: My statement was independent of 2D/3D mode. Next?
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:wtf: My statement was independent of 2D/3D mode. Next?
So was his. What's your point?
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Oh? I thought he was saying "why use radar range when I can just use 2D"
If not, well, what was he saying?
EDIT:
Lines everywhere (functional I know but they look like ass) especially with icons which are TERRIBAD.
Lots of unneeded information for noobs clouding the instrument when 2d radar works perfectly in all situations except for the one that the 3d radar buckles under anyway (many many targets).
If you are fluent in both 3d radar takes longer to read, basically.
Fix that, and I'll have no problem with it.
Problem is, you can't.
Yeah.
Let me re-state: in the case where both 2D and 3D radar fail, that is, when there are too many 'blips' on screen, why can't you just reduce your radar range?
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To be honest 3D radar makes very little sense to me. The 2D radar functions exactly like you have a perfect spherical FOV crammed into a little disc, targets on the boresight in front of you are in the centre of the radar display, targets on the boresight but behind you are, logically, at the edge of the radar display. Sure the 3D radar tells you all the same information and maybe a little more, but you need to do a bit more mental work to use it. Why bother with it when the 2D radar is much simpler and already tells you exactly what you need to know?
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The range increments are bad, for starters.
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The range increments are bad, for starters.
That can be fixxored easily? Or no? I think the increments are bad too but it SHOULD help the overcrowding.
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I don't suppose... we could all... just use the radar type we prefer?
OPINIONS
PERSONAL PREFERENCES
:welcome:
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ogod. Who was it originally who thought it was a good idea to put green/orange/purple circles on the radar?
I customized my radar icons pack so that icons are much smaller on 3D radar. Gives actual readability and minimal overlap, even with a crapload of ships in the field. Doesn't solve the problem that without the lines everywhere, you can't easily judge where the icon's Z coord is at a glance, but personally, I think it's a good tradeoff to immediately tell which dots are cap ships and bombers. Here's a screenshot of sort of what I'm talking about, but I've made some changes since this. (Also, needless to say, smaller icons do not play nice with low screen resolutions)
[attachment deleted by a ninja]
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...hmm, Apparently it can be fixed at least sort of easily?
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I'm sorry, icons for strikecraft will always look horrible to my eyes...
The rings are fine.
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Welp. Can't complain that they aren't cannon. With the exception of the Sathanas and Colossus, I pulled them from the FS1 briefing icons found in the vps.
I'd personally like it if the rings took on the same color as the radar, instead of stubbornly deciding to be orange green and purple.
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They don't look like cannons to me. :p
IMHO it would be more practical to give escort ships an icon rather than all ships.
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They don't look like cannons to me. :p
IMHO it would be more practical to give escort ships an icon rather than all ships.
+1. This is a pretty good idea. Having icons for just escort and/or directive ships would make the radar ten times more useful.
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I-War 2 had a good implementation of 3D radar.
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Welp. Can't complain that they aren't cannon.
(http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af321/0rph3u5/volitioncannon2.png)
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They don't look like cannons to me. :p
IMHO it would be more practical to give escort ships an icon rather than all ships.
+1. This is a pretty good idea. Having icons for just escort and/or directive ships would make the radar ten times more useful.
If you only throw icons for cannons cap ships into your data directory, you will have icons for those ships, and dots-with-tails for everything else. I found the dots with lines too jarring with icons, so opted to give everything an icon. Also, it is useful to see where bombers are.
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I suppose what would be cool/useful would be little white brackets surrounding escort listed ships
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I suppose what would be cool/useful would be little white brackets surrounding escort listed ships
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=67711.0
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I suppose what would be cool/useful would be little white brackets surrounding escort listed ships
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=67711.0
sorry I meant in the radar
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That would indeed be cool.
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I-War 2 had a good implementation of 3D radar.
I found I-War 2's radar system to be too difficult to read in the middle of twitch-based corvette battles. I ended up ignoring the Radar Orb entirely, instead piloting on sheer instinct alone. If the battles in were slower paced, I would make use of such a feature, but I-War's defining feature is the high-speed battles between light warships trying to be fighters.
So far, the best radar system I have seen in a space sim is the RTS view found in games like Starshatter and Allegiance.
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ogod. Who was it originally who thought it was a good idea to put green/orange/purple circles on the radar?
I customized my radar icons pack so that icons are much smaller on 3D radar. Gives actual readability and minimal overlap, even with a crapload of ships in the field. Doesn't solve the problem that without the lines everywhere, you can't easily judge where the icon's Z coord is at a glance, but personally, I think it's a good tradeoff to immediately tell which dots are cap ships and bombers. Here's a screenshot of sort of what I'm talking about, but I've made some changes since this. (Also, needless to say, smaller icons do not play nice with low screen resolutions)
I removed the in the table the icons for Fighters and Bombers, so that I have a mix of icons for the Big Ships and the old doted lines for Fighters an Bombers, but even that isn't as good readable as your fixed Icons.
Anyway, I am a big fan of the Old Elite-Style Radar. If I could build a 3D Radar, it would look like this:
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm296/Alreech/Freespace/Radar_fertig.jpg)
The lines indicate if the Object is above or below of your ship.
Colour does the same, orange = enemy below, light blue = friendly below.
Basic Colours:
Blue = friendly
Yellow = neutral / unknown
Red = enemy
The Star Symbol at the edge indicates the position of the sun, it will never leave the edge.
Nice to have: Similar Symbols for Planets or Moons.
Also nice would to include the Shield Information in the Radar, for Example as Arcs left/right front/aft. Perhaps Thickness or Colour of the Arc indicates Shield Status ?
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BSG style radar seems to be something akin to this. I never really found this mode very comfortable compared to standard one, but if done well (like in Starshatter) it has it's uses.
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It never occurred to me that anyone thought the 3D radar was a bad idea. It's one of my favorite FSO additions XD
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It never occurred to me that anyone thought the 3D radar was a bad idea. It's one of my favorite FSO additions XD
Me too, I loved 3D-Radar (never used 2D). Then I came to this thread and thought about giving 2D a shot, Still love 3D... :nervous:
2D feels like it has less "dimension" (no pun intended).
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that's not a pun, that's just a fact.