Unless of course the GTVA is somehow suddenly roflstomped in a matter of weeks by the shivans or something.
The forum seems pretty confident that the GTVA will win; but from past observations, the BP team has a tendency to screw with the audience.The only confidence I have in a GTVA victory is that it's inevitable if things continue as they are. I don't expect that to happen.
sure something will seriously screw with the balance, like Shivans/Vishnans/Byrne's project. And I have a feeling those 3 are related.
Here is a mental idea, what if the front end of the Lucy is where the/one of the sheath shield generator(s) was?
Here is a mental idea, what if the front end of the Lucy is where the/one of the sheath shield generator(s) was?
It would nullify GTVA bombers. Possibly torpedoes and pulse cannons. But from what we saw of the Lucifer in AoA, its shields don't help much against TEI beam cannons.
I don't think the project is something so mundane as capship shields. What would Nagari sensitivity have to do with that?
I just want to see the GTVA and UEF get exterminated/near-exterminated by the Shivans. I would also like to see the Shivans wipe out the Vishnans, too, but that would be asking too much.
Well, I like the GTVA, but the confused nature of why they declared war and all these "justifications" make no sense to me. I'm hoping BP3 explains this and finally gives an answer that makes sense, rather than "durr unbuntu can make people agree dispite hating eachother without mindcontrol!!!111"
Well, I like the GTVA, but the confused nature of why they declared war and all these "justifications" make no sense to me. I'm hoping BP3 explains this and finally gives an answer that makes sense, rather than "durr unbuntu can make people agree dispite hating eachother without mindcontrol!!!111"
You know, I'm hoping this is the reason why. The Elders use Nagari technology to force people who hate/disagree/want to murder the other into agreeing with their viewpoints when there is conflict, but continuous abuse of the device/devices is making them corrupt, and that the GTVA Security Council has come not to destroy Ubuntu or whatever that noise is called, but they see the Elders as ineligible leaders, and have given the fleets in Sol their permission to remove the UEF's leaders from power by whatever means are the most effective.
If it makes you feel better, I only want the Elders and the GTVA military wiped out by the Shivans :P
One thing that I've never seen mentioned on the boards is the fact that since the Shivans only went after the Ancients, Terrans and Vasudans when they were being aggressive/jigonistic, Ubuntu might actually be a better choice for humanity. Jigonistic societies cross the "Trigger Threshold." Pacifistic, cooperative societies do not.
If the UEF decides to lie back and ignore the Shivans they'd be making an incredibly stupid gamble with the future of humanity.
If the UEF decides to lie back and ignore the Shivans they'd be making an incredibly stupid gamble with the future of humanity. The theory that the Shivans only attack warmongers is based on three coincidences and a lot of metanarrative speculation on our part as players. Looking at this rationally and sceptically, without the knowledge that they're in a story, you'd be a complete fool to bank on the Shivans leaving you be if you lived quietly in peace. The Vishnans don't really change any of this -- there's every reason to suspect that they have an agenda beyond saving humanity from the Shivans, and the induced hallucination of a single pilot aren't the kind of foundation you want to build a future for humanity on.But it isn't just "induced hallicinations of a single pilot". Induced hallucinations maybe, but certainly not just a singel pilot. At least some of the Elders and the two Beis all had some communications with the Vishnans, otherwise they couldn't complain about "the silence" in sunglare.
Perhaps the UEF isn't as peaceful as suggested.
And the UEF doesn't ignore the Shivan's existance. Why else would they ever have build the Solaris' and their heavy bombers? Surely not to combat the Gef.
Perhaps the UEF isn't as peaceful as suggested.
Perhaps the UEF isn't as peaceful as suggested.
And the UEF doesn't ignore the Shivan's existance. Why else would they ever have build the Solaris' and their heavy bombers? Surely not to combat the Gef.
No reason to expect UEF torpedoes would even work against Lucifer shields. Antimatter-based Tsunamis were useless, and kinetic weapons aren't known to be effective against shields either. The UEF had no reason to expect another Shivan incursion wouldn't have a Lucifer leading it, so if they were preparing for another Shivan attack, wouldn't it make more sense to invest in new technologies to pierce shields, rather than building more weapons that have been demonstrated to be ineffective? Like, say, beams?
Even the FS2 GTVA was better adapted to fighting Shivans than the current UEF is.
Even if you have weapons that can pierce the Lucifer shield, you still need a military strong enough to deal with all the other Shivan ships. For all the UEF knew, the surviving Shivan ships might have wiped out ever Human and Vasudan outside of Sol, after the nodes collapsed.After a few years, they'd have started picking Terran and Vasudan signals coming from nearby stars. Alpha Centauri is a Vasudan world and is only 4.3 ly away. Sirius is definitely colonized and is 8.6 ly away. If they cared about what happened outside Sol, chances are they checked for signals coming from there.
As for the state of readiness, we really can't tell much about that, can we?Considering Sol had a head start in building beams because they had access to the wrecks of the Lucifer's own, while the GTVA had to start from scratch (because FS1-era Shivan ships don't have beams), I don't thing it's unreasonable to assume that if the UEF was genuinely worried that the Shivans would come back, they'd have built beam cannons by now. I think giving every ship a chance to damage the Lucifer is better than risking it all on a countermeasure that might not even work.
The current UEF ships would have wiped the floor with anything the Shivans had during the great war and even in the FS2 conflict they would have done very well, with all their anti-subsystem weapons Shivan capships would have been de-beamed quite quickly and thus been left almost helpless.
As far as the UEF knew, before the re-opening of the node, the Lucifer was the only thread they really had to worry about. And just because we havn't seen any anti-lucifer equipment doesn't mean the UEF doesn't have any.
But since the GTVA doesn't utilize such a shield, there is no need take those shieldbusters out of storage and thus we never know about it.
For all we know the node network might be used to create a subspace bubble around a Lucifer and thus shut down it's shields, or maybe the Occulus can put out a radiation with the same effect.There's absolutely nothing to indicate that either of these things is even possible. The gates have never given any indication that they're anything more than linked subspace drives, and if the Oculus could kill shields, it's a feature that would have been used at some point in the last 18 months, if only to shut down fighter shields.
Even if you have weapons that can pierce the Lucifer shield, you still need a military strong enough to deal with all the other Shivan ships. For all the UEF knew, the surviving Shivan ships might have wiped out ever Human and Vasudan outside of Sol, after the nodes collapsed.After a few years, they'd have started picking Terran and Vasudan signals coming from nearby stars. Alpha Centauri is a Vasudan world and is only 4.3 ly away. Sirius is definitely colonized and is 8.6 ly away. If they cared about what happened outside Sol, chances are they kept something checking for signals coming from there. So I'm pretty sure the UEF knew the GTVA existed.
Considering Sol had a head start in building beams because they had access to the wrecks of the Lucifer's own, while the GTVA had to start from scratch (because FS1-era Shivan ships don't have beams), I don't thing it's unreasonable to assume that if the UEF was genuinely worried that the Shivans would come back, they'd have built beam cannons by now.
It does not necessarily follow. I understand that point, but if you believe you have an answer to the beam canon technology, you don't necessarily need to build a beam canon, just the counter-measure. And they have the counter-measure.It's better than starting with nothing, which is what the GTVA had to do (well, GTI with the Hades, but the point stands).
Considering Sol had a head start in building beams because they had access to the wrecks of the Lucifer's own, while the GTVA had to start from scratch (because FS1-era Shivan ships don't have beams), I don't thing it's unreasonable to assume that if the UEF was genuinely worried that the Shivans would come back, they'd have built beam cannons by now. I think giving every ship a chance to damage the Lucifer is better than risking it all on a countermeasure that might not even work.Bad assumptions. All Sol had was a whole bunch of completely destroyed and unsalvageable debris.
Bad assumptions. All Sol had was a whole bunch of completely destroyed and unsalvageable debris.Why wouldn't they have the scan data from the Lucifer? Earth was the GTA's capital. Almost certainly where fleet HQ and GTI HQ were. Seems to me that'd be the first place they'd send it. Especially with the Lucifer coming their way. Same could be said of those best scientists.
The GTI, on the other hand, had hours and hours of classified scans from the Lucifer, plus ton of captured Shivan technology ranging from salvageable debris to captured cargo (even live Shivans) which were kept in their HQ in Beta Aquilae. They also had humanity's best engineers and scientists.
Sol had nothing of that. Not hard to deduce who'd manage to develop beams first. The GTVA just salvaged GTI's research.
Why wouldn't they have the scan data from the Lucifer? Earth was the GTA's capital. Almost certainly where fleet HQ and GTI HQ were. Seems to me that'd be the first place they'd send it. Especially with the Lucifer coming their way. Same could be said of those best scientists.GTI's HQ was in Beta Aquilae (canon, Silent Threat. And BP canon, Silent Threat Reborn). The GTA obviously wasn't expecting the node to collapse. Better keep the data safe than trying to transit it all the way to Earth, especially when all the top scientists are already at Beta Aquilae.
GTI's HQ was in Beta Aquilae (canon, Silent Threat. And BP canon, Silent Threat Reborn). The GTA obviously wasn't expecting the node to collapse. Better keep the data safe than trying to transit it all the way to Earth, especially when all the top scientists are already at Beta Aquilae.I'd like a quote. Haven't played ST:R in a while. All I remember is that GTA everything was in Delta Serpentis or Beta Aquilae for obvious reasons. Does it ever actually say that GTI HQ was in Betaq all along?
Besides, the GTI was already fairly independent from GTA High Command by the time of the Great War. Wouldn't be surprised if some of the most sensitive research done there was... omitted from official reports to High Command.Because it wouldn't make sense to send Earth all the available data on the Lucifer once it was headed their way. Especially not after what happened to Vasuda.
This could be a pretty interesting conversation if it weren't so antagonistic!I second this notion! I get so damn tired of reading these when people behave like dicks to each other. These are so much more fun when we can take other people's opinions and gaps in their knowledge like normal people and not like 30 year-old neckbeards who derive self-worth from belittling other people over the internet.
This could be a pretty interesting conversation if it weren't so antagonistic!I second this notion! I get so damn tired of reading these when people behave like dicks to each other. These are so much more fun when we can take other people's opinions and gaps in their knowledge like normal people and not like 30 year-old neckbeards who derive self-worth from belittling other people over the internet.
Was this what Battuta meant?
Well I don't ****ing know, I'm Australian!
(psst, that means I'm drunk).
So have a beer! Discussions about freespace are more fun with freebeers! (see what i did theere0
Then maybe you should replay STR right now instead of arguing based on faulty memories.
EDIT: if you really want a quote, lrn2wiki (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Secrets_Reborn).
:nod:This could be a pretty interesting conversation if it weren't so antagonistic!I second this notion! I get so damn tired of reading these when people behave like dicks to each other. These are so much more fun when we can take other people's opinions and gaps in their knowledge like normal people and not like 30 year-old neckbeards who derive self-worth from belittling other people over the internet.
Was this what Battuta meant?
Well I don't ****ing know, I'm Australian!
(psst, that means I'm drunk).
So have a beer! Discussions about freespace are more fun with freebeers! (see what i did theere0
A good post, from a good man!
... can we get back on track?
I have a serious question from something that was raised by a different point by Aesaar.
Namely, if it was, or not, possible to communicate with Earth by making a very big dish in Alpha Centauri pointed towards its system, after the Lucifer's battle?
If it is, how much of BP canon is threatened by this very idea?
And if it is, perhaps we should immediately abandon this thought, flag it with a "dangerous" sign, and ignore it henceforth? Whistle looking at the sky and something?
Not at all threatened. BP canon already talks about transmissions between Alpha Centauri and Earth. They even figure into the plot!
The widespread assumption was that Earth’s lost brethren had achieved a degree of peace and enlightenment similar to that which pervaded Sol (barring certain elements of the Kuiper periphery and the military). The coexistence of Terran and Vasudan technological elements in the probes scanned by the Fedayeen was cited as evidence for this view.
Then maybe you should replay STR right now instead of arguing based on faulty memories.All that proves is that the GTI headquarters was in Beta Aquilae several months after the collapse of the Sol jump node. If the GTI headquarters were in Sol before the collapse, the elements of the GTI outside Sol afterwards would logically establish a new headquarters.
EDIT: if you really want a quote, lrn2wiki (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Secrets_Reborn).
I don't want to create a whole new thread for this topic (sorry for bumping this one).
Now that Act 3 of WIH has been released, it seems like things may wrap up soon with all the new forces coming in. Chronologically speaking, how long do you think Acts 4+5 will cover?
I don't have the exact date in front of me, but it was estimated in Tenebra that the attack on Earth would begin in a week correct?