Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Grizzly on September 07, 2012, 05:37:54 pm
-
There has been a lot of hate about the ending. The ending has not fundamentally changed with the extended cut DLC (Except that you can now opt for "I don't choose, and let everything continue as you planned"),. So I wonder why people hated it so much?
-
Still thought that as an ending to the game it was pure ****, but at least the expanded DLC made it "coherent" and let us know what our choices throughout had lead to
-
Still thought that as an ending to the game it was pure ****, but at least the expanded DLC made it "coherent" and let us know what our choices throughout had lead to
None of your choices in Mass Effect (any) matter beyond the colour of the sun and a quip or two.
Just sayin'.
-
Still thought that as an ending to the game it was pure ****, but at least the expanded DLC made it "coherent" and let us know what our choices throughout had lead to
None of your choices in Mass Effect (any) matter beyond the colour of the sun and a quip or two.
Just sayin'.
Yeah, this is basically why most people hated it. We've got a whole thread with a lot of arguing about it. :P
-
Still thought that as an ending to the game it was pure ****, but at least the expanded DLC made it "coherent" and let us know what our choices throughout had lead to
None of your choices in Mass Effect (any) matter beyond the colour of the sun and a quip or two.
Just sayin'.
So it's basically the only point in the entire game where this is not the case - As for both for the leading up and the aftermath, your choices do matter. For most of the stories in the game, the ending is basically the epilogue, whilst the individual stories have been concluded in their respective missions (Genophage, Rannoch, Squadmates, etc.)
-
Still thought that as an ending to the game it was pure ****, but at least the expanded DLC made it "coherent" and let us know what our choices throughout had lead to
None of your choices in Mass Effect (any) matter beyond the colour of the sun and a quip or two.
Just sayin'.
Well, they do matter a bit as they affect the cost (in lives) of getting to the end.
But given the power of the reapers it only stands to reason that the gathering of the armies wouldn't matter much.
Doesn't matter much if I choose Bob or Carl to go with me, when neither of them have a rocket launcher and we're facing tanks.
Frankly, by making the reapers so powerfull they kinda shot themselves in hte foot regarding the end.
-
So it's basically the only point in the entire game where this is not the case
It's also a point pivotal enough that by not mattering here, they really don't matter anywhere else.
-
Couple the endings with what is arguably the most mediocre mission in the game (possibly in the series as well) and you get the epic steaming pile of crap that everyone is complaining about. If Bioware had gotten either one of them remotely right the backlash wouldn't have been nearly as bad. They really did drop the ball on the retake earth mission as it was supposed to follow the same design structure of the suicide mission in ME2 except on a grander scale. You would be directing your assets instead of individual squad mates, so you would see the the Krogan, Turians, Asari, etc carrying out their assigned missions as you progressed through yours but instead all we got was a generic wave after wave style of anticlimatic garbage followed by the terrible endings. The extended cut was like putting a bandaid on a gaping festering wound.
-
I've found the extended DLC a bit like putting a bunch of tabasco sauce all over food you don't like. It'll mask out the worst of it but the food you hate is still there. It makes it bearable but it doesn't make you suddenly like it.
-
I thought the original ending had to do with eezo prematurely killing stars (hinted to in ME2's Tali recruitment mission), and that the Reapers were created to slow that process by destroying civilizations capable of using eezo for interstellar travel. The game was then leaked and the devs changed the ending on the fly. Might want to verify this.
R
-
I've hear that as well. But if it is the case, bioware still ****ed up. Not only did they allow the story to get leaked, but also for the fact that rather then just continuing forwards with the original plan, they apparently ('I've not read the doc) undertook a massive rewrite of the story at a late stage of development.
But this is all really rumours and conjecture, so I won't stake my tea and crumpets on it.
-
I have just completed it and yes the ending sucks, i wanted to save my fem shep for garrus so i took the best destroy ending, problem with that the geth died, which i hated as i was over the moon when i brought peace between the geth and quarians. Ended up killing them.
While i agree that Mass effect 3's endings are poor, this is not the only big game to suffer from this, in fact from all the games i have played i have yet to play one that had didn't have a ending that was poor and rushed. For example, Fallout 3, Starcraft 2, Doom 3, Borderlands, Quake 4, KotOR 1 and 2, Darksiders 1 and 2, Call of Duty series, Space Marine, Dawn of War 2, Batman Arkham city, Transformers Fall of Cybertron, Gears of War 3, Deadspace 1 and 2.
All those games listed are brillant, fantastic games yet all there endings are pretty bad, anti-climatic or rushed and offer no real closure. So i dunno why ME3 got such stick for it when the vast majority of game endings are pretty poor. Its the same with long running TV series, the final episodes 9 times out of 10 are normally really bad. The only game i have played were the ending was pretty good was realms of the Haunting in 1996 but that game was one of kind.
For me its the journey of the series i find more important than the ending, for example watching Garrus grow over the 3 games i find more rewarding than the end. So in that regard Mass Effect to me is still one of the greatest game series and stories, next to Freespace, starcraft and Deadspace there is.
-
I thought the dark matter ending was pretty damn stupid. I'm happy with the extended cut ending(haven't played leviathan) probably because I'm easily satisfied
-
The problem with the ME3 ending, starbug, is that BioWare was saying over and over that all our choices in all three games would matter when it came to the ending, and all that happens in ME3 is numbers on a meter and red, blue, or green lights. It isn't that the ending sucks, it is just that the ending is so far below what BioWare was promising everyone.
-
The problem with the ME3 ending, starbug, is that BioWare was saying over and over that all our choices in all three games would matter when it came to the ending, and all that happens in ME3 is numbers on a meter and red, blue, or green lights. It isn't that the ending sucks, it is just that the ending is so far below what BioWare was promising everyone.
Well, since your war points actually do amount for the ending in a rather significant way (A really low amount of points only gives you the destroy reaper option, which causes MASSIVE collateral damage and basically turns your galaxy into a post apocalyptic wasteland. Nuke, I know what you are thinking right now :P) , you can say that all your choices actually matter.
However, since it also should be possible for new players to get the maximum amount of war points, it kinda gets problematic. They were technically correct when they said that (the best kind of correct :P).
-
Your choices never mattered on any Mass Effect game, if you let mordin die in ME2, he gets replaced by a Not-Mordin Salarian, if Legion dies, he gets replaced by a Not-Legion Geth, this becoems more jarring towards all the endings of Mass Effect.
-In ME, your ending choices are to save or let the council die, if they die they are replaced by another council of douchebags, if they live, they are still douchebags, all that changes is the cinematic of what is exploding, the De. Ascension or Alliance ships.
-In ME2, your ending determines if the color of the explosion is blue or red (:p) and if you get 1000 War Ass. for Red or Blue endings in ME3.
-In ME3, you get the full spectrum: R, G or B, you actually have MORE choices for endings in ME3 (or should I say colors of explosions :P).
-According to the books, Anderson rage quits if you chose him as counselor on ME1, so the choice between him and Udina is pointless.
I could go on, but I think you get my point, all the choices on the Mass Effect franchise are purely cosmetic, they don't change the predetermined stories Bioware wrote for you, don't like it in ME3? Well f**k you! You liked it in all the other games, why are you *****ing NOW?
It took me months to realize why, but I really disliked ME post two, I didn't buy the third one for a reason I didn't understand at the time, good thing, because the lack of closure is not even subtle.
-
You know I'd actually argue that BioWare knocked it out of the park in terms of your choices mattering with one storyline. The Wrex/Tuchanka/Genophage arc comes to an incredible conclusion that's both emotionally cathartic and suggests that your decisions will alter the future of the entire Krogan species.
Part of the reason people say the ending is so terrible (this is aimed at Joshua) is because the events of the ending render what happened on Tuchanka (or with the Geth and Quarians, or anything else) irrelevant. It's as if you've played a careful game of chess and at the end a ghost kid tells you it's going to be scored by checkers rules. We wrestled with these difficult decisions because we could imagine how they'd alter the future. The end of ME3 changes the status quo of the galaxy so dramatically that all those futures we imagined are no longer important.
-
Personally I reckon they were just trying to outdo the Dragon Age II team
Dragon Age Dev : Ha! Our players are going spend the whole game choosing between mages and templars and then at the end we we kick them in the crotch and tell them that their choices didn't matter.
ME3 Dev: That sounds cool. I think we can beat that though, we could make an ending that screws over all 3 games.....
-
A point that hasn't really been addressed: http://2muchgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Take-Back-Earth-ME3.jpg
You can't actually do that. But thanks for trying.
-
Well despite the endings i still loved playing and enjoyed them. That's is the most important bit for me, wether you enjoyed it or not and i did. Also i ain't gonna lie i did shed a tear for mordin while curing the geno and legion. Think it was down to the music for which i loved the piano solo's, and this is true never once has a game made me shed a tear but those bits did, must be getting soppy in my old age of 29 lol.
-
Still thought that as an ending to the game it was pure ****, but at least the expanded DLC made it "coherent" and let us know what our choices throughout had lead to
None of your choices in Mass Effect (any) matter beyond the colour of the sun and a quip or two.
Just sayin'.
Well... to put matters in perspective... couldn t you say the same about Deus Ex?
Also... I wouldn t consider the fact that pretty much every major character in all 3 games can die at some point, based on your choices, all too lightly.
-
Still thought that as an ending to the game it was pure ****, but at least the expanded DLC made it "coherent" and let us know what our choices throughout had lead to
None of your choices in Mass Effect (any) matter beyond the colour of the sun and a quip or two.
Just sayin'.
Well... to put matters in perspective... couldn t you say the same about Deus Ex?
Did Deus Ex have a multi-million dollar ad campaign telling us that 'Yes. Your choices will changes the outcome of this story.'? I don't think it did, but that was years ago.
Also... I wouldn t consider the fact that pretty much every major character in all 3 games can die at some point, based on your choices, all too lightly.
Except that if they die, the story doesn't really change.
-
Wait, ME3 had a major ad campaign ? o.o
Was it only in US or something ? I don't remember anything aside from a few trailers, nothing more than any other AAA title.
-
Your choices never mattered on any Mass Effect game, if you let mordin die in ME2, he gets replaced by a Not-Mordin Salarian, if Legion dies, he gets replaced by a Not-Legion Geth, this becoems more jarring towards all the endings of Mass Effect.
If legion dies, you are unable to get a peacefull resolution in the Geth-Quarion conflict. You can choose either one or the other.
We wrestled with these difficult decisions because we could imagine how they'd alter the future. The end of ME3 changes the status quo of the galaxy so dramatically that all those futures we imagined are no longer important.
Never looked at it that way. I beg to differ a bit, though. If you choose the "Control Reaper" ending, whether the quarians or the geth lived or the genophage is cured still matters, as even the reaper fleet can not fix that. If you choose the "destroy reaper" ending, the results of the genophage still matters, as does it with the synthesis ending. Also, the synthesis ending becomes completely illogicial when all significant synthetic life has been wiped out anyway.
Yeah, and when you choose the "I will not use the crucible ending", you basically do get screwed over. Fair enough :P.
-
You're right that there are some consequences, but take the genophage arc -
If you pick control, Shep's enormous reaper police force defuses the possibility of a resurgent Krogan empire, undercutting your decision on Tuchanka.
If you pick destroy the decision's still meaningful, post-Extended Cut. Pre Extended Cut we believed there was no more FTL travel so there could be no resurgent Krogan empire and Wrex would never see his home again.
If you pick synthesis, what does the genophage even mean if all biology has merged with technology? Again, decision undercut.
I'm not arguing that there isn't some follow through, you're totally right about that. But it still seems to change the foundation so profoundly that your choice is robbed of its power.
-
Wait, ME3 had a major ad campaign ? o.o
Was it only in US or something ? I don't remember anything aside from a few trailers, nothing more than any other AAA title.
I remember seeing commercials for it during prime-time and sporting events and such. It wasn't exactly the level that Blizzard is hitting now with Mists of Pandaria, but it was still fairly impressive.
-
So the main complaint with the game - sort of - is the advertising campaign?
If that's so then with respect .... PFFFFFFFT :P
I mean I get it.... a lot of people expected *more* (TM) ... what I don't get is how that (for a lot of people - at least going by Metacritic) suddenly makes this "the worst game ever".
Especially... since there are very very few games that off a similar amount of choice and storyline depth as the ME series - if any.
The only recent ones that come to mind would be Alpha Protocol, but there certainly aren t any universe moving questions being tackled in that story.... the other contender would be the Witcher (2), which offered a huge amount of choice including a branching storyline and.... guess what? An ending that pissed off a lot of people because they *wanted something else* ... (personally I thought it was perfect in the context of both the books and the games mood).
People are silly :P
Except that if they die, the story doesn't really change.
Imho the ME series, and especially the 2nd part, has been much more about the quite excellent companion stories rather than the usually very short and somewhat meh main storyarc.
In that respect I would say the third part is very much true to its roots lol ;)
I.e. : Enjoy the journey... you will have a hard time finding a better one these days.
-
So the main complaint with the game - sort of - is the advertising campaign?
If that's so then with respect .... PFFFFFFFT :P
No. And congrats on actually managing to offend me: that's quite the accomplishment.
-
Especially... since there are very very few games that off a similar amount of choice and storyline depth as the ME series - if any.
While you are correct, this only really makes the problem worse. The last ten minutes of it come from some other universe that is none of these things. The represent, in essence, a betrayal of all this, and the fact that some people find a last-minute betrayal of everything the series stood for to be an irredeemable fault should not remotely surprise you.
-
In essence:
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.
-
Especially... since there are very very few games that off a similar amount of choice and storyline depth as the ME series - if any.
While you are correct, this only really makes the problem worse. The last ten minutes of it come from some other universe that is none of these things. The represent, in essence, a betrayal of all this, and the fact that some people find a last-minute betrayal of everything the series stood for to be an irredeemable fault should not remotely surprise you.
For me a bad ending doesn't ruin the journey. It's unfortunate, that's all.
Bad endings to huge Sci Fi series seem to be somewhat of a trend as well. First BSG, now ME.
Still... while I wish either ending had been done better, I still treasure both series for what they did offer.
I mean, what's the alternative? Not play/watch them at all and miss out on all the good stuff?
Or rather play/watch something that is inherently inferior for 99% of the time and pretend one enjoys it more just because it may have an "acceptable" ending?
(Heck even large established sci fi works like Hamiltons Nights Dawn trilogy had ****ty Deus Ex Machina Endings and still received critical praise overall - and rightfully so.)
/shrugs.
Anyways, just because the ending sucks doesn't make it a "bad game". That's my story and I'm sticking to it :P
-
Anyways, just because the ending sucks doesn't make it a "bad game". That's my story and I'm sticking to it
quite right Mikes. A bad ending does not make it a bad game, same with TV shows.
With Mass Effect 4 now having been confirmed i wonder if that will be a sequel or prequel, either way i hope that Bioware learn a couple of lessons from the ME3 endings. Although i am happy we will be getting DLC for retaking of Omega.
-
I was going to depict ME4 as a MORRRRPG (or whatever acronym you prefer) WOW-lookalike, given their work in SWTOR.
However, because that kinda tanked, that's probably a no-go now.
The founders of Bioware have left the company this week though, so I guess it's all EA calling the shots now. I predict it's all downhill from now on.
-
I played all the 3 games.
I only dropped the Mass Effect 1 because of that damn "race" in the end that you have 30 seconds to enter at the portal and go to the Citadel...i never did it. D:
and i dripped ME 3 too because if some "stairs bug", as much as i tried it, some stairs siply didn´t worked for me! d:
So after Thessia, i never played the rest fo the game, and after the format i dont on my computer, i never had patience to play everything again... so i saw the Paragon walkthrough and saw the monstrosity at the ending (**** you again ghost boy!).´
The games as a whole, where just awesome, but the ending was just too much ****, maybe if they did a ending like "Welll, our bplan failed, we are completely ****ed and we will day, lets do a final orgy to humanity and enjoy our last days of life." would be better than this all Deus Ex Machina ****...
:/
-
The founders of Bioware have left the company this week though, so I guess it's all EA calling the shots now. I predict it's all downhill from now on.
Technically EA should not be calling the shots as they are publishers. I know thats not how it works but. It is funny that after they have left to go on to other things and brew beer, that Bioware announces 3 new games, the next Mass Effect game which could be a MMO, (Old Republic by all accounts isn't a bad game its that it uses the old subscription model like WOW, which itself is losing members to the free to play MMOs like guild wars 2. I hope it isn't a MMO as i believe is should be another singleplayer game) Dragon Age 3 Inqustion which includes multiplayer aargh!!!, a brand new IP and new single player DLC for ME3. It had to happen sooner or later the founders leaving, thats business for you, people move on. I don't think it should be counted as a bad thing yet.
-
The founders of Bioware have left the company this week though, so I guess it's all EA calling the shots now. I predict it's all downhill from now on.
Technically EA should not be calling the shots as they are publishers. I know thats not how it works but. It is funny that after they have left to go on to other things and brew beer, that Bioware announces 3 new games, the next Mass Effect game which could be a MMO, (Old Republic by all accounts isn't a bad game its that it uses the old subscription model like WOW, which itself is losing members to the free to play MMOs like guild wars 2. I hope it isn't a MMO as i believe is should be another singleplayer game) Dragon Age 3 Inqustion which includes multiplayer aargh!!!, a brand new IP and new single player DLC for ME3. It had to happen sooner or later the founders leaving, thats business for you, people move on. I don't think it should be counted as a bad thing yet.
EA ****ed with Command& Conquer and now they are planning to **** with Mass Effect too?
damn...i hate EA...
-
EA ****ed with Command& Conquer and now they are planning to **** with Mass Effect too?
damn...i hate EA...
They've been ****ing with Mass Effect in various ways since ME2, though probably not in the ways people realize. BioWare itself seems pretty driven to mainstream its games. EA's influence is more apparent in marketing and DLC decisions.
-
In a lot of ways I think that the mainstreaming has paid off apart from a poor art/story design very few parts
-
I don't disagree, I think Mass Effect 3 had the best gameplay of any of their titles since...BG2 maybe?
-
EA ****ed with Command& Conquer and now they are planning to **** with Mass Effect too?
damn...i hate EA...
They've been ****ing with Mass Effect in various ways since ME2, though probably not in the ways people realize. BioWare itself seems pretty driven to mainstream its games. EA's influence is more apparent in marketing and DLC decisions.
Bioware lost its (pardon the expression) spirit after Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 2. sad, really...
but, what in Mass Effect 2 is so ****ed up? for me, it was a peak to the ME 2 experience and i enjoyed it, much more than ME 1 or 3. D:
I don't disagree, I think Mass Effect 3 had the best gameplay of any of their titles since...BG2 maybe?
I tried to play Baldur´s Gate 2, i dropped it very frustrated with the isometric kind of thing...it simply didn´t woked for me. :/
-
ME3 had the gameplay, just not the structure. ME2 was the peak with its episodic structure and an ending that appreciated and took care of all those previous episodes (to a limited point).
ME2 was great because it felt like a star trek show episode every time I played it at night. Had the continuing characters with their own arcs, a episodic small stories that weren't generally too high-concept, but entertaining per se and had conclusions of their own, without breaking the overall plot.
ME3 just felt like this immense gritty, pain filled, grimdarkian big huuuuge episode, breaking us down each time the Reapers destroyed yet another planet or another station, giving us time just to salvage something that could bring us to a comeback that never actually paid off at all... It was an emotional Titanic.
-
but, what in Mass Effect 2 is so ****ed up?
Cerberus? It makes no sense. Um.... The Collectors? They make no sense, esp. when looking at the third game.
Oh, and Miranda.
I don't disagree, I think Mass Effect 3 had the best gameplay of any of their titles since...BG2 maybe?
i dropped it very frustrated with the isometric kind of thing..
Really? The only thing I found really frustrating was that I didn't realize that events (quests) ran concurrently, resulting in me making really stupid decisions at the start.
Never did finish BG2.... I should probably go back to it.
-----------------
Also, to the people groaning about multiplayer in upcoming Bioware games....
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/09/06/ea-goes-100-online-with-gaming/
EA Labels President Frank Gibeau said that the company is full-on embracing cloud gaming and online interaction: "I have not green lit one game to be developed as a single player experience. Today, all of our games include online applications and digital services that make them live 24/7/365."
Also relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6TmTv6deTI
-
multiplayer was the best part of me3
-
idk bout that. rannoch and tuchanka were high points for me.
-
Tuchanka was great, but the loss of the lead Geth writer (and the guy who made Legion and the Geth so cool in ME2) really ****ed Rannoch over.
-
Tuchanka was great, but the loss of the lead Geth writer (and the guy who made Legion and the Geth so cool in ME2) really ****ed Rannoch over.
I played by Rannoch and tought that thei conclusion was really fine.
not spectacular. but fine.
-
Tuchanka was great, but the loss of the lead Geth writer (and the guy who made Legion and the Geth so cool in ME2) really ****ed Rannoch over.
what happened to the lead geth writer? there were some contradictions between me3's geth and me2's. had me scrathcing my head. Disliked how legion died. did not seem necessary compared to mordins
-
He left BioWare late in ME2 development. He was also the guy who wrote the superb ME1 codex entries, and most of the planet entries on the galaxy map.
-
that is extremly unfortunate. do you have any insight about geth in me3 becoming "true individuals" or "true ai" and where that came from?
-
I dunno, it's bull**** that runs completely against ME2's big themes. In ME2 the Geth were an alternative but equally valid form of intelligence; they had no desire to become like anyone else and actively opposed the use of alien technology to change themselves. Then in ME3 they were all 'let's use alien technology to become ~juuust like youuuu~~~~~'
-
It's called bad writing, change something for no reason and shoehorn an excuse in, there was no signs that the Geth were changing their minds about what they should do until the Rannoch chapter.
-
so why can't the editor be unlocked to mod the me games?
-
It was either restricted by their licence agreement with Epic Games, the guys who made the engine, or because it would undermine DLC, I'm not exactly sure.
-
can that be worked around? I would love to mod me1. hexeditor seems limited
-
I don't disagree, I think Mass Effect 3 had the best gameplay of any of their titles since...BG2 maybe?
I disagree. BG2 was a lot worse. It stuck too close to it's AD&D principles, leading to weird situations.
ME3's gameplay is just so much better balanced and ... well... original.
-
So, I just finished my first ever complete Mass Effect playthrough, with extended cut and both the From Ashes and Leviathan DLCs.
I mostly enjoyed the ending, FWIW. I certainly didn't come away feeling disappointed. The final choice felt real and extremely weighty, and my Shephard was extremely torn between the available choices. I eventually ended up going Synthesis, and was satisfied with how that turned out.
So, from someone who was not involved in any of the hype and saw game and its ending in its most complete/fixed form to-date, I'm content with how it turned out. FWIW. :)
-
I eventually ended up going Synthesis, and was satisfied with how that turned out.
Eheh.